Topic: The Religion Thread

[JT]

Tama.

Hindi na kailangang lumayo sa talata. Napakasimple niyan:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Mt. 6:25-34)

Life, body, food, drink and clothing lang ang sinasabi diyan.  E di basic necessities lang pala.

"Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink." --- Anong klaseng eat and drink? Food and drink that is sufficient to sustain life. Kasama ba ang Wagyu steak at Cognac brandy? Hindi.

"Or about your body, what you will wear." --- Anong klaseng clothes? Clothes sufficient to protect your body from the elements. Kasama ba ang Armani suit diyan? Hindi.

"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." --- Ano daw yung sinasabi ni Kristo na "all these things"?

Simple.  All these things Christ previously mentioned --- food, drink and clothing.

Ano pa nga ba, e di basic necessities lang.  All these things daw?  Oo nga, all these basic necessities daw.  Kulit...

Walang pangakong bahay sa Tagaytay Highlands; walang 75-inch 4K TV. Paanong naging abundance and prosperity yan? 
 
Mag-abuloy ka, kapatid.  Babalik sa yo yan.  Mas malaki bigay, mas malaki balik, siksik, liglig at umaapaw. 
 
Si pastor ang aapaw, hindi ikaw...     

The bible will clearly mention it if it is referring to basic needs only and if it is for all.  Di nagkakamali o nagkukulang ang Holy Spirit, so why do you keep on adding this "basic only" to other scriptures?  Jesus clearly told us not to worry on basic needs but He also told us to ask whatever in His name.

Not only you have been trapped in the lies of the devil,  you are also mis-representing God's very generous nature.  By saying expect only basic needs,  you are also saying the Apostle John is wrong in praying for prosperity.   John 1:2 says "Beloved, I pray that you MAY PROSPER IN ALL THINGS" and be in health, just as your soul prospers." Remember, John wrote this as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. So you are also saying the Holy Spirit is wrong to ask for it.

Or how about this verse in Psalm 37:4  "Delight yourself also in the Lord, And He shall give you the DESIRES of your heart."  Isnt this clear about other things?

You see there are many promises of prosperity and abundance also but it has certain conditions. Unfortunately, many speakers have abused this and they have a big accountability to God.  But why stop believing and limit your faith because of them?  You don't rest your faith on other people or your experience, you put your faith in the Word of God.

Tell me, did you ask God for the car you are driving now? Its not mentioned in your basic needs, so had God given it you?

So can you ask God ng bahay sa Tagaytay Highlands or 75-inch 4K TV?  Sure, asking lang naman eh.  But kung hindi nya ibibigay eh hwag kang magagalit kasi you need to satisfy some conditions like in

James 4:3 "You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures."

And in 

1 John 3:22 "And WHATEVER we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

[JT]

so talaga palang maraming demonyo sa lupa.....

Yes, Ephesians 6:12 says "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

In the Philippines, it seems the spirit of religiosity, corruption and poverty are the strongholds. People need to understand God's Word on these areas in order to have a breakthrough.  John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

ma katabi kaming simbahan o kapilya, ang lakas ng sound system,
sabi ng pastor, "pag hindi kayo nagbigay ng ikapu, ninanakawan nyo ang Diyos"
napaisip ako, nagbibgay ba ng official receipt ang Diyos?

Well, it is written clearly in Malachi 3:8-12 that people are robbing God thru this.  You see, tithes is returning to God.  But it should not be mandatory. Remember God requires cheerful giver. 

me nakatrabaho ako sa abroad, taga nueva viscaya, merong isang farmer na
tila baga umaasenso, lumapit ang pastor at pinatuloy nya, ginawan nya ng maliit na
chapel at pinakain ang pamilya......kaso inabot ng malas, tinamaan ng matitinding bagyo,
so madal't  sabi, naubos ang kabuhayan, so kasabay ng paglaho ng yaman nya,
lumayas ang pastor, lumipat ng ibang bayan....

Bible is clear that there are genuine and fake men of God.  That is why we have to be careful.  And it is really wrong for pastors to ask their flock for support.  Everyone must ask God only, yun naman ang tinuturo sa bible, to be dependent with God. And let God provide or use someone to give or support.

[dpogs]

that is right sir JT...

let's take example the life of Job, when God tested Job loyalty and faithfulness, and when Job recognize his standing before God which is being "poor in spirit" (Job 42:1-6), God doubled Job's fortune and blessed Job more in term of material things (Job 42:10-12).

God wants the best from us. God wants us to excel in every area of our life whether it is spiritual or material. God wants us to excel in our job which is when you excel in your job it means promotion = more money = more material things. God wants us to do the right thing and at the same time excel in our business which is = money.

but remember, that all these is according to God's will... when God said He will give things according to "OUR NEEDS" this doesn't mean what we need, but according to "HOW GOD VIEWS OUR NEEDS".

If we pray that we need food, but God sees that this time you need hunger, then God will never give you food. If you pray before God that you need a motorcycle, but God sees you just don't need a motorcycle what you need is a car, then He will give you a car - an unanswered prayer but much better.

Also, God will never give you things that you cant overcome. If God sees that you cant overcome temptation of being rich in this world then He will never make you rich.

[JT]

that is right sir JT...

let's take example the life of Job, when God tested Job loyalty and faithfulness, and when Job recognize his standing before God which is being "poor in spirit" (Job 42:1-6), God doubled Job's fortune and blessed Job more in term of material things (Job 42:10-12).

God wants the best from us. God wants us to excel in every area of our life whether it is spiritual or material. God wants us to excel in our job which is when you excel in your job it means promotion = more money = more material things. God wants us to do the right thing and at the same time excel in our business which is = money.

but remember, that all these is according to God's will... when God said He will give things according to "OUR NEEDS" this doesn't mean what we need, but according to "HOW GOD VIEWS OUR NEEDS".

If we pray that we need food, but God sees that this time you need hunger, then God will never give you food. If you pray before God that you need a motorcycle, but God sees you just don't need a motorcycle what you need is a car, then He will give you a car - an unanswered prayer but much better.

Also, God will never give you things that you cant overcome. If God sees that you cant overcome temptation of being rich in this world then He will never make you rich.

Amen to that Sir.

I also like what God did to Isaac in Genesis 26:12-13 "Then Isaac sowed in that land, and reaped in the same year a hundredfold; and the Lord blessed him. The man began to PROSPER, and continued PROSPERING until he became very PROSPEROUS;"

[JT]

Oh my God! This gives me a better understanding of Mt. 6:33. Kala ko talaga dati you will become extremely rich materially if you seek first the kingdom of God. Really a good thing na nadiscover ko tong threads (religion thread, holy trinity, etc) na to sa PDVD. My kudos to everyone for the really good conversation here.

I used to think the same as well until God corrected me over and over again using only Psalm 37:4  "DELIGHT yourself also in the Lord, And He shall give you the DESIRES of your heart."  So let me share my testimony.

I was  a new believer when I read this verse and  i got so excited by it. I started attending bible studies and sunday service [but just for attendance sake] thinking  this is the way to delight myself with the Lord so that He give in to  my desires. And true enough, I am getting all I want.

But there comes a time that my desires are not being given so I ask God whats wrong. God reminded me on the verse Psalm 37:4 but highlighted the word DELIGHT.  I need to do proper delighting in the Lord.  Having the right attitude of attending bible studies[have a genuine interest in the Word of God] and the right heart of worship. So I did as told, and true once again I'm getting all the desires of my heart.

Again, it comes a point that my desires are not being given anymore so I ask God what now? Again using Psalms 37:4 but this time God highlighted the word DESIRE. All my desires are wrong, all for worldy pleasures. So I did as told,  genuinely  desiring  for lost souls to repent and be saved. To seek righteousness and establish His kingdom.

And you know what,  God has granted my old desires as well. So I ask God why is He giving it to me again? Sabi nya, didnt I say "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you"

Do it God's way, it's all in the bible. Study and learn from it.  And always remember God's plan for everyone is in Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

[jerix]

On the contrary, God never meant for man to be poor. That was the devil's schemes.

So do you think the devil is now on the upper hand?

[dpogs]

So do you think the devil is now on the upper hand?

actually the devil owned this world. if the material wealth we receive here on earth didn't come from God then definitely the devil gave it to us.

[jerix]

actually the devil owned this world. if the material wealth we receive here on earth didn't come from God then definitely the devil gave it to us.

What a situation...God created our world but somebody else is reigning. This is the reason sometimes why I could not seem to agree how people interprets what they read on the bible.

[bumblebee]

^We don't know that.

[pTrader]

actually the devil owned this world. if the material wealth we receive here on earth didn't come from God then definitely the devil gave it to us.

Sino ba ang pinagbigyan ng earth?
Psalms 115:16  The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to mankind.

Eto yung reason why we have problems in life.
Eccl 7:29 This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many
 schemes."

Walang pag aari ang devil para ibigay sa tao. The devil influence (deceiving) man to use resources given to man for evil purpose.

[pTrader]

The main problem is the diefication of man.

Started at Gen 3

1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
 
2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
 
4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
 
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

[dpogs]

What a situation...God created our world but somebody else is reigning. This is the reason sometimes why I could not seem to agree how people interprets what they read on the bible.

don't get me wrong... the Bible state that Satan is the ruler of this world, the world of unbelieving. But Satan cant rule the believers, Satan doesn't have power over God's son. though he may hurt them but satan cant touch their souls.

Satan is the god of this world.
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

Satan is the prince of the air
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Ephesians 2:2

Satan is the prince/ruler of this world
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31

Satan even offered this world to Jesus
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”


when satan offered this world to Jesus, Jesus Christ never objects. Instead Jesus said 'worship only God and serve Him only', Jesus didn't say that Satan is liar that moment.

[bumblebee]

The main problem is the diefication of man.

Started at Gen 3

1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
 
2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
 
4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
 
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Is man not predestined for deification? I asked because you believe in predestination.

[pTrader]

don't get me wrong... the Bible state that Satan is the ruler of this world, the world of unbelieving. But Satan cant rule the believers, Satan doesn't have power over God's son. though he may hurt them but satan cant touch their souls.

Satan is the god of this world.
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

Satan is the prince of the air
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Ephesians 2:2

Satan is the prince/ruler of this world
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31

Satan even offered this world to Jesus
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”


when satan offered this world to Jesus, Jesus Christ never objects. Instead Jesus said 'worship only God and serve Him only', Jesus didn't say that Satan is liar that moment.

when satan offered this world to Jesus

dpogs, please take note that the world was not offered, it is the kingdoms:

showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

[pTrader]

Is man not predestined for deification? I asked because you believe in predestination.

This might enlighten you:

Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

[bumblebee]

This might enlighten you:

Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Okay, let me rephrase that. Was Adam and Eve predestined to eat the forbidden fruit?

[dpogs]

when satan offered this world to Jesus

dpogs, please take note that the world was not offered, it is the kingdoms:

showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

oh my mistakes.... yes... the Kingdoms of this world.

[rexFi]

^^^ yep he foreknew those who "love God" in verse 28. <-- they are not predestined to Love God sorry.
They are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son <-- e.g. Sanctification(?) which is Synergistic but still gives glory to God.

For the correct understanding of Predestination, see us here:

https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/category/predestination

Okay, let me rephrase that. Was Adam and Eve predestined to eat the forbidden fruit?

Nope. Also next question for that is... what was Adam's motivation? The answer is Free will(Libertarian)

https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/?s=libertarian

Although not the same with our current state (Totally Depraved, we need Grace).
Just click the links ^

[jerix]

6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

If Adam and Eve did not eat the forbidden fruit they should not have realized that they were naked. They had become conscious of themselves and their sexuality only after they ate the fruit. Mutual attraction came thereafter. And they could not have performed that intimate and ultimate act that started the growth of mankind if not for the fruit. Do you agree?

[pTrader]

If Adam and Eve did not eat the forbidden fruit they should not have realized that they were naked. They had become conscious of themselves and their sexuality only after they ate the fruit. Mutual attraction came thereafter. And they could not have performed that intimate and ultimate act that started the growth of mankind if not for the fruit. Do you agree?

Naked in a way that they have nothing that is why they need to put something to cover:

7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.


And they could not have performed that intimate and ultimate act that started the growth of mankind if not for the fruit.

this is not the case after the fall of man because God has already commanded the below:


Gen 1:26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
 

27So God created mankind in his own image,

in the image of God he created them;

male and female he created them.
 
28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

[jerix]

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”[/color]

Did this happen first before Adam and Eve ate the fruit?

[pTrader]

^^^ yep he foreknew those who "love God" in verse 28. <-- they are not predestined to Love God sorry.
They are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son <-- e.g. Sanctification(?) which is Synergistic but still gives glory to God.

For the correct understanding of Predestination, see us here:

https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/category/predestination

Nope. Also next question for that is... what was Adam's motivation? The answer is Free will(Libertarian)

https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/?s=libertarian

Although not the same with our current state (Totally Depraved, we need Grace).
Just click the links ^

They are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son <-- e.g. Sanctification(?) which is Synergistic but still gives glory to God.

I think this is more Monergistic than Synergistic.

Who is the one who predestined them? God
What was being acheived? to be conformed to the image of his Son

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi have been called according to his purpose.

It is evident that the action in verse 28 :  "God works"

29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

It is evident that the work is being done by GOD (all of "he" pronoun below).

30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

I might agree that Adam exercise free will the so called Libertarian and yes after the fall the choices and decision of man are based on the consequences and result , thus Totally Depraved, we need Grace

[pTrader]

Did this happen first before that Adam and Eve

I don't want to speculate but this what  is written in Genesis 2

But for Adamf no suitable helper was found. 21So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribsg and then closed up the place with flesh. 22Then the Lord God made a woman from the ribh he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
 
23The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
 
24That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
 
25Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

I might  happened before the fall of man, since verse 24 indicated union and verse 25 declared "his wife".


In response to ultimact act.

(edited)

[pTrader]

Did this happen first before Adam and Eve ate the fruit?

Yung increase as stated in Genesis start in Chapter 4

1Adama made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.b She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forthc a man.” 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

[Klaus Weasley]

Children from religious households more selfish and mean than those from secular households.

[jerix]

Yung increase as stated in Genesis start in Chapter 4

1Adama made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.b She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forthc a man.” 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

So whats the answer bro? did the carnal knowledge happen before or after the fruit eating event?

[pTrader]

So whats the answer bro? did the carnal knowledge happen before or after the fruit eating event?

Sex is before.

Gen 2:
24That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

[bumblebee]

They were having sex but didn't "know" they were naked?

[jerix]

They were having sex but didn't "know" they were naked?

Precisely why I asked. I believe all the while that it was the eating of the fruit that broke their innocence to sex. Because what is the significance of that biblical account that after they ate they realized that they were naked and became conscious of themselves if they were already lustfully enjoying sex before hand.

[Nelson de Leon]

They were having sex but didn't "know" they were naked?

Precisely why I asked. I believe all the while that it was the eating of the fruit that broke their innocence to sex. Because what is the significance of that biblical account that after they ate they realized that they were naked and became conscious of themselves if they were already lustfully enjoying sex before hand.

Parang ganun sir. They know they were naked probably pero they had no idea of lust.

Sir Jerix I think you hit the right word. Iba yun having sex and iba yun "lustfully" having sex. I may be wrong though.