Topic: Extrenal DAC vs Soundcard

[Wildfire™]

which is better external dac or external soundcard or are they the same?

[FrancisD]

The line is blurred with your question. From a practical point of view what do you expect as an output to your dac / soundcard : is it digital or analog signals?

Both dacs and soundcards can do both. The things is, people call dacs as a name audiophile people normally use for audiophile equipment even when it functions as a soundcard so it doesnt carry the stigma that soundcards mostly sound bad.

[Wildfire™]

i am planning to get a superpro dac but when i checked asus website isaw that their xonar soundcard has burrbrown so now im a little confuse

[FrancisD]

The asus xonar soundcard is isolated with a good dac, good meaning entry level dac as the superpro may as well be. If you want the really good ones, the asus is used to output either optical or coaxial digital signal to an audiophile dac. In this scenario to an ayre or more expensive dacs - i.e. the high end.

Do not use the internal digital output sometimes included onboard on the motherboard. These do not sound good.

[Wildfire™]

this is my soundcard, its an asus supremefx x-fi and im using its coaxial.



so do i need to replace my current soundcard with a xonar and use a dac or this will do paired with a dac?

[Stagea]

Try hooking the optical out to a decent DAC that reclocks the input stream. It might be enough to fix most issues. You can always change the source card later on.

[Wildfire™]

so my setup would be soundcard optical out -> superpro optical in -> amp

is optical better than coaxial?

[RU9]

so my setup would be soundcard optical out -> superpro optical in -> amp

is optical better than coaxial?

Dolby.com,who I think would know a little bit about digital audio connections say.

"If your system components allow you to choose between two types of digital connector, note that both have identical audio performance. Under some circumstances, however, very long coaxial cables can be more susceptible to radio frequency (RF) interference than optical cables. Because optical cables are more expensive, try coaxial cables first and switch to optical only if you encounter problems."

So I guess the bottomline is, if it sounds good with coaxial, stick with coaxial. If you get too much interference, have the money to spend, or only have a digital output, then go with optical.

[Wildfire™]

im using coaxial right now but without a dac but i will try optical thanks

[RU9]

im using coaxial right now but without a dac but i will try optical thanks

Is this your setup?

computer coax out --> AVR -->speakers

Per this setup, your AVR has a DAC built in.

[Wildfire™]

Is this your setup?

computer coax out --> AVR -->speakers

Per this setup, your AVR has a DAC built in.

yes but im using a t-amp instead of avr

[RU9]

yes but im using a t-amp instead of avr

Now I am confused.
Does this mean that the coax out is analog?

[pa3ck608]

if you are going to use only 16 bit music files, i think you'll only need a DAC because it has a usb interface which can be connected to your pc. However, if you will  play 24-bit/96khz or studio master type files, make sure your soundcard supports it, otherwise soundcard upgrade is inevitable.

[Wildfire™]

Now I am confused.
Does this mean that the coax out is analog?

oh sorry about that i miss read 
my current setup is from coaxial out -> avr for movie watching (but my avr is an old onkyo and im not sure if it even has a dac 

and for music mini stereo (3.5mm) to t-amp

[Wildfire™]

if you are going to use only 16 bit music files, i think you'll only need a DAC because it has a usb interface which can be connected to your pc. However, if you will  play 24-bit/96khz or studio master type files, make sure your soundcard supports it, otherwise soundcard upgrade is inevitable.

my soundcard supports 24-bit/96khz does this mean no need for a dac anymore?

[pa3ck608]

my soundcard supports 24-bit/96khz does this mean no need for a dac anymore?

kailangan mo pa rin ng DAC bro because analog connection lng yung amp mo (no built-in dac).  unnecessary ang DAC kung naka avr ka or your integrated amp has a digital input like the onkyo a5vl.

[Stagea]

Dolby.com,who I think would know a little bit about digital audio connections say.

"If your system components allow you to choose between two types of digital connector, note that both have identical audio performance. Under some circumstances, however, very long coaxial cables can be more susceptible to radio frequency (RF) interference than optical cables. Because optical cables are more expensive, try coaxial cables first and switch to optical only if you encounter problems."

So I guess the bottomline is, if it sounds good with coaxial, stick with coaxial. If you get too much interference, have the money to spend, or only have a digital output, then go with optical.

Computers are generally electrically noisy devices, and most sound boards do not offer galvanic isolation on their coaxial digital outputs. We're no longer talking about interference from other devices in this connection, because the PC is the source of the noise in this case. Optical helps prevent the gunk in your PC from getting to your audio system. It is still possible to get good coaxial digital connections for this setup, but optical is generally preferrable to coaxial digital for PC SPDIF use.

oh sorry about that i miss read  
my current setup is from coaxial out -> avr for movie watching (but my avr is an old onkyo and im not sure if it even has a dac  

and for music mini stereo (3.5mm) to t-amp

If your AVR produces sound when connected to your sound board's coaxial digital out, then it indeed has a DAC.

A good outboard DAC might help your T-Amp to perform better, however. It basically boils down to: If you're happy with the current layout, you don't have to mess with it.

[Wildfire™]

kailangan mo pa rin ng DAC bro because analog connection lng yung amp mo (no built-in dac).  unnecessary ang DAC kung naka avr ka or your integrated amp has a digital input like the onkyo a5vl.

thanks for the advice

Computers are generally electrically noisy devices, and most sound boards do not offer galvanic isolation on their coaxial digital outputs. We're no longer talking about interference from other devices in this connection, because the PC is the source of the noise in this case. Optical helps prevent the gunk in your PC from getting to your audio system. It is still possible to get good coaxial digital connections for this setup, but optical is generally preferrable to coaxial digital for PC SPDIF use.

thanks its much clearer now, optical is better for pc

If your AVR produces sound when connected to your sound board's coaxial digital out, then it indeed has a DAC.

A good outboard DAC might help your T-Amp to perform better, however. It basically boils down to: If you're happy with the current layout, you don't have to mess with it.

i think sars lang to 

how about using a tube buffer instead of dac which will be better?

[FrancisD]

With your set up better to judge by ear. Entry level Dacs would likely be a good match. At this level, dont mind much the coaxial or optical difference. Just try either, without a hum, difference would be minor.

In fact, even a usb based soundcard may be a good match.

This is where the fun starts...finding synergies   

[mojako]

With your set up better to judge by ear. Entry level Dacs would likely be a good match. At this level, dont mind much the coaxial or optical difference. Just try either, without a hum, difference would be minor.

In fact, even a usb based soundcard may be a good match.

This is where the fun starts...finding synergies   

Sir, what's a good affordable USB soundcard?

[Wildfire™]

Sir, what's a good affordable USB soundcard?

this one

[mojako]

this one

How much yan?

[Wildfire™]

3k yata im not sure, try to check tpc

[rascal101]

Computers are generally electrically noisy devices, and most sound boards do not offer galvanic isolation on their coaxial digital outputs. We're no longer talking about interference from other devices in this connection, because the PC is the source of the noise in this case. Optical helps prevent the gunk in your PC from getting to your audio system. It is still possible to get good coaxial digital connections for this setup, but optical is generally preferrable to coaxial digital for PC SPDIF use.

The noise exists on the rail or supply voltages whether you go optical or coaxial. The transducer or device which converts or transforms electrical energy to light energy still uses the supply voltages and is referenced to the noisy ground.

If you are concerned with noise you can remedy by plugging your PC to an EMI filter or if you are a bit techie putting a 1uF X1 or X2 between live and neutral of your AC power cord.

[rexFi]

Hi sir Wildfire™ kumusta na setup mo?

Any updates so some of us can learn?

TIA

[Wildfire™]

for now im still using the soundcard 3.5mm mini stereo to RCA -> tube buffer -> FiiO A1

im still waiting for the fiio dac to be available locally

[Stagea]

The noise exists on the rail or supply voltages whether you go optical or coaxial. The transducer or device which converts or transforms electrical energy to light energy still uses the supply voltages and is referenced to the noisy ground.

If you are concerned with noise you can remedy by plugging your PC to an EMI filter or if you are a bit techie putting a 1uF X1 or X2 between live and neutral of your AC power cord.

The noise that I'm talking about is from the components inside the PC, and not from the power line. It's often from the PSU, but the other components inside the PC also contribute.

[rexFi]

for now im still using the soundcard 3.5mm mini stereo to RCA -> tube buffer -> FiiO A1

im still waiting for the fiio dac to be available locally

ah thank you sir. (will try to mirror what you're doing with my HTPC)

[Wildfire™]

ah thank you sir. (will try to mirror what you're doing with my HTPC)

sure no problem 

[Arulco]

I'm just speaking based on experience:

The signal-to-noise ratio of quality discreet sound cards are surprisingly good. I have not experienced any noise or interference issues with my old Sound Blaster Audigy. My conclusion here is that a good sound card installed in a PC with well designed and built components, particularly the motherboard and power supply, will not have noise and interference problems. Onboard audio is another story, though. It's still noisy as hell.

I've had a USB DAC that actually performed worse than my sound card. It had this persistent buzzing noise that I couldn't get rid of. It also messed up the frequency response audibly and when measured. Not sure if I got a defective unit but I got rid of it nonetheless.

Now, I'm using a Beresford TC-7510 DAC hooked up to my PC via optical SPDIF and all I can say is that it definitely sounds better than the Audigy with both A/B and blind tests.

Its would be best to try out different configurations and stick with what works with you best.