Topic: Creation or Evolution - articles and discussion

[rascal101]

Yung nga iyung tanong eh. Ang tanong kung saan nagmula lahat. Kung saan man nagsimula kanya kanya tayo ng pananaw. Kung tama ka man o hindi, hindi na mahalaga iyun. Tutal tao lang naman tayo at ano ba iyung maibabahagi natin dito. Paulit ulit lang mga iba't ibang pananaw. Pa-ikot ikot.

[Tempter]

Yung nga iyung tanong eh. Ang tanong kung saan nagmula lahat. Kung saan man nagsimula kanya kanya tayo ng pananaw. Kung tama ka man o hindi, hindi na mahalaga iyun. Tutal tao lang naman tayo at ano ba iyung maibabahagi natin dito. Paulit ulit lang mga iba't ibang pananaw. Pa-ikot ikot.

So why post?

[rascal101]

Gaya mo. Why post din? Alam mo naman pa-ikot ikot lang lahat. Dapat nga mga ganitong topic may limit kasi, ang mga nag po post napapansin either naglalabas lang ng sama ng loob o di kaya naman nag papakita ng grammatical skills o iyung iba naman naglalabas ng kagalingan nila sa debate.

[rascal101]

Suggestion lang naman ito. Dapat siguro itigil na natin ang topic na ito. Gasgas na talaga itong topic na ito.

[Tempter]

Gaya mo. Why post din? Alam mo naman pa-ikot ikot lang lahat. Dapat nga mga ganitong topic may limit kasi, ang mga nag po post napapansin either naglalabas lang ng sama ng loob o di kaya naman nag papakita ng grammatical skills o iyung iba naman naglalabas ng kagalingan nila sa debate.

Post ko ay tanong sa conclusion mo. Kaya ako nagpopost to question yung mga taong kung magsalita ay siguradong-sigurado.

At hindi ako nagpopost para ipakita ang mga kagalingan ko. In fact, nagtatanong ako para mapakita ng mga nagpapakita ng kagalingan nila na sila ay karapat-dapat paniwalaan... dahil hindi nila ako ma-sway para maging panig sa mga paniniwala nila. By questioning, baka sakali, but so far all non-sense.

[Tempter]

Suggestion lang naman ito. Dapat siguro itigil na natin ang topic na ito. Gasgas na talaga itong topic na ito.

Agree ako dyan, pansin mo ba lately puro pro-Creationist ang posts dito?

[rascal101]

Ano ang conclusion ko? Naniniwala ako sa mas mataas na kapangyarihan. Naniniwala ako na ako ay isang alipin ngunit kahit ako'y alipin kailangan ko ipakita sa nakakataas na kaya kong mabuhay ng maayos at ginagamit ang mga binigay sa akin na kaalaman para makapag lingkod ayon sa kanyang kautusan.

Iisa lang buhay at bawat oras mahalaga kaya bawat sandali gagamitin ko para makapag lingkod sa nakakataas ng maayos.

Sa madaling salita agree ako sa nasasaad sa bibliya.

Pero sana itigil na natin ito kasi parang fad cycle mga kasagutan.

[dpogs]

Ang katotohanan ay nagiging kasinungalingan kung walang nagsasabi kung ano talaga ang katotohanan... kung alam mo ang katotohanan bakit ka mananahimik...

[rascal101]

Ilang pahina na itong topic na ito. Dapat ng tumahimik lahat. Iba naman pag usapan natin. Change topic naman, please lang.

[Nelson de Leon]

Ilang pahina na itong topic na ito. Dapat ng tumahimik lahat. Iba naman pag usapan natin. Change topic naman, please lang.

Bawal pong mag change topic kundi, O.T. na. Hehe!

[Tempter]

Bawal pong mag change topic kundi, O.T. na. Hehe!

LOL!

[rascal101]

Oo nga pala ... hihihi

[docelmo]

With due respect…Sirs Tempter and Rascal

This thread is specific to discussions on evolution and creation and therefore would have at least two sides to the discussions. Each side would naturally have advocates and believers and would express his opinion on the topic to his heart’s content. Besides, a 5 year old thread and 42 pages of discussions is not too long for a topic that spans 4 billion years or so…

*edited*

Lately, most of the post are pro-creation…..maybe because the other side is still looking for topics, scientific research if any, news items etc……to support their views.

Gentlemen, wrongly characterizing other people’s motives and manner of posting is uncalled for and characterizing one’s self as very intelligent but posting “ not to show that intelligence” is false modesty and has no place in this discussion…

If you think “all are non-sense” by all means you have every right NOT to post or open or read this thread. But if you want a friendly, open, non-prejudicial, non-judgmental discussion then you are most welcome.

So, kindly tell me sir temper is my analogy of the “painting, painting itself if given time” with regards to evolution incorrect or non-sense? If it is, then how would you characterize or describe evolution using the painting as an analogy?

You said you advocate evolution and ID, how do you define evolution? If you define evolution as “change through time” then I would agree with that concept…

[bumblebee]

So, kindly tell me sir temper is my analogy of the “painting, painting itself if given time” with regards to evolution incorrect or non-sense? If it is, then how would you characterize or describe evolution using the painting as an analogy?

A painting is created by a being (synthetic), so you can't use that analogy. Use rock formations instead. Were they designed to look that way?

[dpogs]

A painting is created by a being (synthetic), so you can't use that analogy. Use rock formations instead. Were they designed to look that way?

paano nagkaroon ng hugis ang 3D model... nagawa ito ng 3D printer not by being... paano nagkaroon ng 3D printer... created o naimbento ng isang tao... same sa mga rock formation/shapes... the environment/weather itself ay 3D printer... paano nagkaroon ng environment... is it random ba bakit ganito environment/weather/sorroundings natin or was designed to behave like that... like a code...

kahit tanggalin na natin ang formation ng rock... rock itself how it comes to existence? evolves from a single point? or was designed to be rock and behave like a rock?

but for sure... rock (or rock formation) doesnt evolve and the painting was created/made...

[dpogs]

rock formation when left unattended through time



rock formation in the hand of the sculptur (designer)

[docelmo]

A painting is created by a being (synthetic), so you can't use that analogy. Use rock formations instead. Were they designed to look that way?

I beg to disagree, we can certainly use this analogy of a painting just like we can use a car, house, plane and yes rocks to illustrate a point. That of the law of causation, which simply means that things with a begining are influenced or caused by forces outside of itself. In the case of rock formation, sedimentation, gravity, pressure, temperature, elements etc are the factors that caused the formation of rocks....take out all those factors can a rock form itself?

what if we attach a paint brush on the tail of a dog and let it run for millions of years in front of a canvass....and wait for it to paint say a Monalisa........now is this a more accurate analogy of evolution?

[bumblebee]

I beg to disagree, we can certainly use this analogy of a painting just like we can use a car, house, plane and yes rocks to illustrate a point. That of the law of causation, which simply means that things with a begining are influenced or caused by forces outside of itself.

A painting's creator isn't questioned.

In the case of rock formation, sedimentation, gravity, pressure, temperature, elements etc are the factors that caused the formation of rocks....take out all those factors can a rock form itself?

Exactly. But you wouldn't know how it would look like, yes? Unlike the painting or car or whatever else you can think of that is man-made. Or still no?

what if we attach a paint brush on the tail of a dog and let it run for millions of years in front of a canvass....and wait for it to paint say a Monalisa........now is this a more accurate analogy of evolution?

Well, if you can find a dog as smart as Da Vinci you won't need a million years.

[dpogs]

rock formation when left unattended through time possibly million/billion of years



still... no form or whatsoever



rock formation in the hand of the sculptur (designer)


in 15 years... a face emerge from the rock...

[docelmo]

A painting's creator isn't questioned.

Exactly. But you wouldn't know how it would look like, yes? Unlike the painting or car or whatever else you can think of that is man-made. Or still no?

Well, if you can find a dog as smart as Da Vinci you won't need a million years.

In the same manner that you won't know how planets, dogs, cats, birds would look like? Where did the concept for these things came from? Cars were made by man, while dogs were made by chance?

Ah, it's evolution that is still looking for that smart dog! Keep looking sir!

[bumblebee]

^

Ah, it's evolution that is still looking for that smart dog! Keep looking sir!

Same way you are looking for God?

But, no, I'm not looking for a smart dog

[docelmo]

^
Same way you are looking for God?

But, no, I'm not looking for a smart dog

Sure! Because common sense, experience and more and more scientific research, studies on molecular biology all points to the presence of design in nature.....intelligent design as the cause.

Ah so you're not looking for a smart dog, i take it you mean that even without the smart dog the monalisa will paint itself!

So, you really have more faith in chance.

[dpogs]

^
Same way you are looking for God?

But, no, I'm not looking for a smart dog

We don't have the capacity or an initiative to look/search for God. God reveals Himself through His creation...

[bumblebee]

Sure! Because common sense, experience and more and more scientific research, studies on molecular biology all points to the presence of design in nature.....intelligent design as the cause.

Yeah, if everything was created purposely. But like I said for before, I believe we are one of many possibilities.

Ah so you're not looking for a smart dog, i take it you mean that even without the smart dog the monalisa will paint itself!

So, you really have more faith in chance.

No, I meant I'm not looking for a smart dog. Period.

[docelmo]

We don't have the capacity or an initiative to look/search for God. God reveals Himself through His creation...

Tama sir, nasa Romans 1:20 yan...
Roman 1:20

New Living Translation
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

King James Bible
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For the secrets of God from the foundation of the world are appearing to his creatures through intelligence, even his power and his eternal Godhead, that they will be without a defense,

[Tempter]

Nalintekan na! All over again...

[heisenbergman]

Nalintekan na! All over again...

[docelmo]

Yeah, if everything was created purposely. But like I said for before, I believe we are one of many possibilities.


No, I meant I'm not looking for a smart dog. Period.

Because you embrace Evolution which teaches purposeless, random, undirected emergence of life it follows that you doubt there is purpose to life. Evolution must be without plan or purpose because it’s main mechanism is natural selection and random mutation and admitting any sort of purpose is not acceptable. However, purpose or presence of purpose is intricately associated with order. With order come laws, systems and rules. And we see that order in life and the universe, science has discovered laws and rules governing all of life. All the constants and quantities discovered in the universe points to order and purpose.

And most of all based on our experience and achievements purpose and order exists. Every carpenter that builds a house, every engineer that makes a car, every doctor that heals a patient……there is order and purpose.

The mere act of posting on this thread has order and purpose (though some are already complaining about it).
We clearly see the world we are in and there is no reason to doubt that this is our reality, sure there could other possibilities. The mere possibility of other existence does not negate the reality that we are all in now. In this reality we see order and purpose; we see it in the movements of the earth, solar system and the universe.
Thus both the existence of the universe and man’s existence and action…..Purpose and order are clearly manifested!
In the context of “painter-painting” metaphor of creation and “smart dog painter-painter” metaphor for evolution you merely evaded the question and just declared you are “not looking for the dog period”….that is a non-answer answer. I was waiting for you to say that it is wrong and come up w/ your own metaphor to describe evolution in those terms or context….but what I got was as I said a non-answer.

Nalintekan na! All over again...

No problem sir, just get off this crazy never ending merry-go-round!

[dpogs]

if you're an evolutionist especially an atheist... one attributes you must embrace is believing that ...

everything just exists... no purpose or objectives whtasover...

[dodie]

lately ive been reading a lot of postings/replys na laging nababangit yung salitang IDIOT/S! parang okay lang lang pakinggan sa salitang ingles eh, pero pag tinagalog  mo( TANGA, GUNGONG, ) eh medyo parang may halong panlalait o pangmamata sa iyong mga kasamahan na hindi ayon sa paniniwala mo! ang nakakapagtataka they are coming from people who share the same standpoint and have parallel views......