Topic: Is the Church Above The Law? Church Double Standards

[RU9]

http://www.stuartsantiago.com/media-mideo-bishops-rape/

media & mideo, bishops & rape | stuart-santiago

there’s a real live rape-of-a-minor court case pala in the works against a parish priest of agusan del norte, who denies the allegations of course, and whom the diocese bishop has taken into his palace (yes, palace! frailocracy pa rin) in butuan city, instead of surrendering him to civil authorities...

[indie boi]

A new age of religious intolerance? Did we ever leave that age?

Just to reiterate what I posted yesterday. I'd like to ask the devout Catholics here, specifically the ones who are particularly vocal against the Mideo artwork -- what's your take on the Church's refusal to give up the priest being accused of raping a minor and their insistence that a review panel be formed to review the priest's case instead?

Ano ang opinyon ninyo? Honestly, I'm really curious.

O may sasagot kaya sa tanong na ito?

[leomarley]

A new age of religious intolerance? Did we ever leave that age?

Just to reiterate what I posted yesterday. I'd like to ask the devout Catholics here, specifically the ones who are particularly vocal against the Mideo artwork -- what's your take on the Church's refusal to give up the priest being accused of raping a minor and their insistence that a review panel be formed to review the priest's case instead?

Ano ang opinyon ninyo? Honestly, I'm really curious.

O may sasagot kaya sa tanong na ito?

+ 1

may warrant of arrest na ba for the said priest? diba dapat kasuhan din yung bishop na nagtatago sa pari na ito?

[barrister]

may warrant of arrest na ba for the said priest?

Wala pang warrant.  

Charges were filed at the Agusan del Norte prosecutor’s office only last week.  It will take maybe up to October or November before a resolution is issued.

diba dapat kasuhan din yung bishop na nagtatago sa pari na ito?

Hindi pa.  Wala pa kasing warrant, e.

[indie boi]

For me a warrant is beside the point. The fact that the church leaders didn't bring him to the police and that he was just reassigned should be a cause for concern for anyone who is truly concerned about justice.

[BusyChild]

Hehehe... sorry kung OT, just following your discussion... may nakasuhan na ba na priest dahil sa rape sa Philippines history? Usually dina-drop ang kaso diba or umaatras ang nagaakusa.... parang miracle... tapos nakakalimutan nalang ng tao ang mga nangyari or balita...

[barrister]

For me a warrant is beside the point. The fact that the church leaders didn't bring him to the police and that he was just reassigned should be a cause for concern for anyone who is truly concerned about justice.

Well, ganon na nga ang lumalabas.

The Archdiocese of Butuan created a committee that will investigate the case.  Butuan City Bishop Juan de Dios Pueblos said the committee will be the one to determine the recommendations, if any, against Fr. Raul Cabonce.  Bishop Pueblos also confirmed that Fr. Cabonce was in his custody.

We're under the impression that the Bishop wants to exclude the civil authorities.  Para bang sinasabing kami na ang bahalang mag-imbestiga at magparusa, at huwag na kayong makialam.  

Puwede ba naman yon?

I wonder what the Catholics think about it.  OK ba sa inyo na pag may ginawang krimen ang pari, ang Iglesia Katolika lang ang mag-iimbestiga at magpaparusa, at puwera na ang criminal justice system?

Bishop Pueblos should issue a statement clarifiying that they will abide by the Pastoral Guidelines on Sexual Abuse and Misconduct by the Clergy, which states that “just like all other citizens, clerics and religious are subject to the civil and penal laws of the state.”

[mujacko2002]

A new age of religious intolerance? Did we ever leave that age?

Just to reiterate what I posted yesterday. I'd like to ask the devout Catholics here, specifically the ones who are particularly vocal against the Mideo artwork -- what's your take on the Church's refusal to give up the priest being accused of raping a minor and their insistence that a review panel be formed to review the priest's case instead?

Ano ang opinyon ninyo? Honestly, I'm really curious.

O may sasagot kaya sa tanong na ito?

Mabuhay!

Of course, i would want the priest to be investigated (although it hurts me to say this)  and if proven guilty be sentenced with appropriate sanctions. And in the afterlife, its all in God's hands.

Godbless

[teridon]

Naku wag niyong ganyanin si Father.

Father can do no wrong.

"This is for your own good, iha."

Lol.

[barrister]

Iha, humayo tayo at magpakarami ... 

[indie boi]

Bakit kaya walang uproar from the guardians of morality and decency? Ano sa tingin nyo?

[Klaus Weasley]

Bakit kaya walang uproar from the guardians of morality and decency? Ano sa tingin nyo?

I don't know about you but a priest raping a minor is a far, far, FAR more grievious sin than some artist putting a dildo on some religious imagery or a poor couple choosing to buy condoms.

[barrister]

Bakit kaya walang uproar from the guardians of morality and decency? Ano sa tingin nyo?

Kasi presumed innocent?

[indie boi]

Kasi presumed innocent?

When has that stopped pundits from voicing their opinions? Kahit naman sila Ampatuan presumed innocent until proven guilty diba? Pero yung thread dito on the massacre lahat calling for blood and retribution na.

And besides, the issue also goes beyond the guilt or innocence of the priest. Anong entity, corporation or group here in the Philippines can do what these priests are doing and get away with it? I doubt people will keep quiet if, say, the local imams took the Ampatuans and say that they'll just form a committee to review the case dahil Muslims naman yung involved.

And there is also the issue of the Church not following the law. Innocent or guilty, they shouldn't be hiding the suspect.

[teridon]

Di lang pinapaingay pa masyado siguro.

Or pwedeng naghahabol din yung CBCP ng media embargo/blackout.

[BusyChild]

I don't know about you but a priest raping a minor is a far, far, FAR more grievious sin than some artist putting a dildo on some religious imagery or a poor couple choosing to buy condoms.

Even it's not a "priest" who raped a minor... it's still a grievious sin. Unless of course you're into role playing and with consent, that's something different. Hehe.  

[Klaus Weasley]

Even it's not a "priest" who raped a minor... it's still a grievious sin. Unless of course you're into role playing and with consent, that's something different. Hehe.  

But since the guy is a priest that makes the act 10x more heinous because a priest is supposed to be a trusted, celibate man of God whom his parishioners are supposed to always trust and look up to for spiritual guidance. For a priest to violate that trust by raping a child is a violation of that trust. That's why it's such big news around the world every time a priest gets caught with his hands in the pants of an altar boy.

The CBCP and the local moralistas go around condemning homosexuals, artists who put dildos on religious paintings and condom use are strangely silent when it comes to the far more heinous crime of rape of a minor by a priest. 

[BusyChild]

But since the guy is a priest that makes the act 10x more heinous because a priest is supposed to be a trusted, celibate man of God whom his parishioners are supposed to always trust and look up to for spiritual guidance. For a priest to violate that trust by raping a child is a violation of that trust. That's why it's such big news around the world every time a priest gets caught with his hands in the pants of an altar boy.

The CBCP and the local moralistas go around condemning homosexuals, artists who put dildos on religious paintings and condom use are strangely silent when it comes to the far more heinous crime of rape of a minor by a priest. 

Yup... yun nga lang, priest pa yung accused na nangrape. I wonder what makes them do that. I mean, the priests. Naipon ang pagka-"L" and nagiging "tao lang"...? 

[indie boi]

Grabe yung moral outrage kay Mideo pero dito sa thread na ito wala. Mas galit pa yung so-called "free thinkers" at "atheists".

Kawawa naman yung batang napagsamantalahan, hindi sinusuportahan ng mga taong iginigiit na alam ang tama sa mali.  Ibig kayang sabihin ang suporta nila nasa pari pa rin?

[RU9]

Majority find it hard to believe that a priest can commit a physical crime but do not have a problem in believing a metaphysical being.  Funny...

[Dan]

Grabe yung moral outrage kay Mideo pero dito sa thread na ito wala. Mas galit pa yung so-called "free thinkers" at "atheists".

Kawawa naman yung batang napagsamantalahan, hindi sinusuportahan ng mga taong iginigiit na alam ang tama sa mali.   Ibig kayang sabihin ang suporta nila nasa pari pa rin?

This thread is an eye-opener. Can't wait for the response of "good catholics".

[Tempter]

Grabe yung moral outrage kay Mideo pero dito sa thread na ito wala. Mas galit pa yung so-called "free thinkers" at "atheists".

Kawawa naman yung batang napagsamantalahan, hindi sinusuportahan ng mga taong iginigiit na alam ang tama sa mali.  Ibig kayang sabihin ang suporta nila nasa pari pa rin?

I'm neither a devoted catholic nor atheist, but hindi mo pede i-direct compare ang 2 kasong ito. Yung isa, kitang-kita mong ginawa, at yung isa presumed innocent.

[dpogs]

Nahuli sa akto ang pari?

o pinagbintangang/inakusahang nangrape?



DEATH PENALTY to all rapist!!!

[Klaus Weasley]

Majority find it hard to believe that a priest can commit a physical crime but do not have a problem in believing a metaphysical being.  Funny...

What's more than that, they have no problem believing that a metaphysical being who created the universe, who's basically omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, who created the Earth, and all its complex life forms and systems would be angry for someone putting a dildo in His "supposed" face.

Yet where is the moral outrage on the molestin' and rapin' priests? That's a 10000000x a bigger slap in the face of the Church than all the dildos and penises on Jesus paintings combined.

[indie boi]

I'm neither a devoted catholic nor atheist, but hindi mo pede i-direct compare ang 2 kasong ito. Yung isa, kitang-kita mong ginawa, at yung isa presumed innocent.

Sige ikumpara na lang natin sa ibang krimen. Presumed innocent diba? Bakit ang daming galit kay GMA at saka kay Mike Arroyo? Hindi pa naman sila nahahatulang may sala.  Madami ding napag-usapang mga krimen sa Big Talk pero yung moral outrage nga sobrang lakas. Kataka-takang walang moral outrage tungkol sa isyung ito.

And it also goes beyond the issue of the accusation of rape. Wala bang naiskandalo na ang mga pari ayaw ibigay yung suspect sa pulis? Kahit na yun na lang ang pag usapan natin at hindi na yung akusasyon ng rape.

[leomarley]

I'm neither a devoted catholic nor atheist, but hindi mo pede i-direct compare ang 2 kasong ito. Yung isa, kitang-kita mong ginawa, at yung isa presumed innocent.

tanong ko lang. ano standing mo sa Maguindanao Massacre? since on going pa ang kaso and hindi pa guilty ang mga Ampatuans. isn't it that all suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty? nagalit ka ba sa Ampatuans kaagad or hindi?

kung walang ginawang mali yung pari bakit itinatago ng Simbahang Katoliko? why aren't they clamoring the government for an investigation sa kaso na ito at gusto nila sila na lang mag-imbistiga?

the reason why we're comparing the 2 cases is because it seems that the Catholic Church has a double standard. if something goes against the Church they go on a rally and demand something from the government but if the issue is against them they try to block out the situation.

[rusty]

International Traffic in Catholic Priests Who Abuse

By Richard Sipe and K.K. Murray
SNAP [United States]
April 17, 2007

The problem of foreign born or educated priests who come to the United States and subsequently abuse minors is and has been a problem for the American church. Some of the clergy coming to the US have abused prior to their service in dioceses here and also continue to abuse after they flee the US, often for their native country.

It is well documented that U.S. bishops Frequently transferred Catholic priests accused of sexual abuse to various venues within their own jurisdictions after receiving allegations—a different parish, chaplaincy, or to another bishop. (Approximately 60 percent of priests were reassigned after the first report of abuse. Cf. Sipe & Murray, October 18, 2006). The hierarchy also moved accused priests across international borders to other countries where many continued to work with children and were often able to avoid scandal, evade prosecution or extradition. These transfers are one of many ways in which global Catholicism affects the abuse crisis in the United States.

*Fr. Roberto Batoon was an extern priest From Philippines working in Honolulu. Accused of abuse he fled back to Philippines.

*Fr. Arwyn Diesta came to Los Angeles as extern priest From Philippines, abused one person in 1982-1983, returned to Philippines in 1988, accused in 1992.

*Fr. Cristobal Garcia admitted to having sex with two altar boys while a priest in Los Angeles in 1986. He fled to the Philippines, where he was ultimately promoted to monsignor.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news/2005_03_16_Egerton_PriestAccused.htm
http://www.cebuarchdiocese.org/directory/organizations/

*Fr. Leonardo Mateo was a visiting priest From the Philippines in Los Angeles. Accused of abuse in 1983, 1991, 2003 he ultimately fled to Philippines where he died in 2004.

*Fr. Emmanuel Omemaga was a priest in San Diego who fled to the Philippines after being accused of abuse in 1993

*Fr. John Steven Rabideau was a priest in Detroit; accused of abuse 1998, he immediately fled the U.S. He was an active priest in Philippines in 2004; caught in South America in 2006 trying to enter Colombia.

*Fr. Santiago L. Tamayo ordained in Philippines, moved to Los Angeles Archdiocese in 1968, accused of abuse in 1984, fled to Philippines

*Fr.Valentine Tugade was priest in Los Angeles California who fled to Philippines after accusation of abuse in 1984. Proved to be father of child born from abuse

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/03_04/2007_04_17_Sipe_InternationalTraffic.htm

[BusyChild]

the reason why we're comparing the 2 cases is because it seems that the Catholic Church has a double standard. if something goes against the Church they go on a rally and demand something from the government but if the issue is against them they try to block out the situation.

True! True! True! Hehehe... kanina ko pa gusto sabihin yan, hindi ko lang alam paano i-express. hehe. Parang kapag kabaro nila, pinoprotektahan nila.... Para bang the church has its own Mafia...

[Dan]

Para bang the church has its own Mafia...

It's one of, if not the, largest corporations in the world.

[leomarley]

True! True! True! Hehehe... kanina ko pa gusto sabihin yan, hindi ko lang alam paano i-express. hehe. Parang kapag kabaro nila, pinoprotektahan nila.... Para bang the church has its own Mafia...

oo sir pareho tayo ng iniisip hehehe... and hindi lang naman sa kasong ito kinukupara yung Church kundi sa iba pang kaso ng abuse by Church priests as pointed out by Sir Rusty.