Author Topic: Is the Church Above The Law? Church Double Standards (Read 49261 times)

Panmunjom · « **Reply #90 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 01:16 AM »

Quote from: Klaus Weasley on Sep 27, 2011 at 09:10 PM

How does one define OBSCENITY? That's the slippery slope. A government official can define those terms on his whim and make laws accordingly, thereby limiting journalistic and artistic expression. He can call any column or article criticizing him or exposing his misdeeds as "obscene".

It has been defined by and explained in foreign and local jurisprudence. If "whim" will be the basis for the definition, such ordinance will easily be declared by the courts as invalid. The last sentence above is stretching the argument too much.

Even providing that the term is hard to define, still, the decision to support such an ordinance is not bereft of basis, that is - legally and morally. Also, even if there are priests that are rapist or otherwise immoral, the Catholic Church is still not guilty of double standard if it decided to back-up the said ordinance.

leomarley · « **Reply #91 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 09:51 AM »

^ why do you think that the Church doesn't have double standards, if i may ask? they go on a rally or make a sermon about obscenity/immorality in the comics and exhibits but mum's the word when it comes to obscenity/immorality inside their own Church and they even protect the priest who has done the crime? that isn't double standard?

Panmunjom · « **Reply #92 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 03:56 PM »

^
While my statement above is my opinion, which I need not justify further, I can answer your question. Before I do, however, it is necessary that you first substantiate your 2nd sentence.

By the way, what "obscenity/immorality in the comics"?

leomarley · « **Reply #93 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 04:17 PM »

this one bro. this was posted on the last page of this thread.

Quote from: sharkey360 on Sep 27, 2011 at 08:48 AM

My friend in Cebu feels terrible. Why? Because his local parish priest saw him reading a comic book from the New 52 comics of DC Comics. He was kind enough to show some pages to him until one image struck the priest.

Just because of that, the priest told him that he will repeat his message of censorship and banning in the name of morality on his next mass this weekend, and this time he will specifically mention DC Comics, Catwoman and the New 52. The priest, by the way, already spoke out against the alleged obscene tabloids and voiced support for the vice-governor's proposal to ban such media.

also, this is a post i made on the first pag of this thread:

Quote

if something goes against the Church they go on a rally and demand something from the government but if the issue is against them they try to block out the situation.

ct-guy · « **Reply #94 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 05:01 PM »

i agree with bro leomarley, i dont have any grudge against our beloved church, but to me it seems that the church is trying to control our government. if they don't like something that the government propose they oppose it. look what happen to erap, without the support of the church in that revolt, i believed we wont have president arroyo ( for me the most corrupt and notorious). and for me it is the church who somehow doesn't do there part in helping the poor to enrich there life. for we wont have this big population. more child been birth = baptism = money. and who does the politician go to in time of election

?? CHURCH. so why does INC (inglesia) keep expanding there hm.. asset and not paying any cents to the government. check out most of there property which is in a prime lot. well i hope i didnt offend anyone here. this is just my opinion.

sharkey360 · « **Reply #95 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 05:40 PM »

Quote from: ct-guy on Oct 03, 2011 at 05:01 PM

i agree with bro leomarley, i dont have any grudge against our beloved church, but to me it seems that the church is trying to control our government. if they don't like something that the government propose they oppose it. look what happen to erap, without the support of the church in that revolt, i believed we wont have president arroyo ( for me the most corrupt and notorious). and for me it is the church who somehow doesn't do there part in helping the poor to enrich there life. for we wont have this big population. more child been birth = baptism = money. and who does the politician go to in time of election ?? CHURCH. so why does INC (inglesia) keep expanding there hm.. asset and not paying any cents to the government. check out most of there property which is in a prime lot. well i hope i didnt offend anyone here. this is just my opinion.

Ronald Reagan in 1981 said "Government is the problem."

Here in the Philippines, the church is the problem.

dpogs · « **Reply #96 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 06:43 PM »

halos karamihan ng church/denomination dito sa Pilipinas... nakikisali sa pulitika eh...

not only catholics... Iglesia ni Kristo, pentecostal... etc... mga nakikisawsaw sa mga politics issue...

in my opinion... we have the rights to question the government... but to use the church as a front to stage protest... its a big NO NO...

pera pera nga lang yan... halos lahat naman ng head ng mga churches ngaun... naabutan ng pera kapag panahon ng eleksiyon...

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #97 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 07:09 PM »

Quote from: jomgray on Oct 03, 2011 at 01:16 AM

It has been defined by and explained in foreign and local jurisprudence.

What is the definition? I'd like to hear it. Because for me, the terms OBSCENE and OFFENSIVE are very subjective. One person may be uncomfortable with nude paintings and nude sculptures while another person would look at pornography and not be bothered by it one bit. Who decides? What's the standard? I remember reading that one of the MTRCB guidelines is that one breast is okay. TWO exposed breasts? Not okay. That was hilarious.

sharkey360 · « **Reply #98 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 08:54 PM »

"The Vatican does not excommunicate the pedophile-priests who have raped and sodomized Catholic youth, or punish the bishops who covered up these crimes,"

http://news.change.org/stories/catholic-priest-faces-dismissal-for-support-of-womens-ordination

Panmunjom · « **Reply #99 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 10:02 PM »

Quote from: dpogs on Oct 03, 2011 at 06:43 PM

in my opinion... we have the rights to question the government... but to use the church as a front to stage protest... its a big NO NO...

I respect your statement above as this is an opinion.

Quote

pera pera nga lang yan... halos lahat naman ng head ng mga churches ngaun... naabutan ng pera kapag panahon ng eleksiyon...

However, this one above is no longer an opinion but an accusation. I hope you won't subsequently say "baka lang pala", like you did in your other posts.

Panmunjom · « **Reply #100 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 10:25 PM »

Quote from: leomarley on Oct 03, 2011 at 04:17 PM

this one bro. this was posted on the last page of this thread.

Ahh, that one. If the priest really did say that, I don't agree with him. I don't find this obscene.

Just a reminder though, that priest in Cebu is not the "Church".

Panmunjom · « **Reply #101 on:** Oct 03, 2011 at 10:33 PM »

Quote from: Klaus Weasley on Oct 03, 2011 at 07:09 PM

What is the definition? I'd like to hear it. Because for me, the terms OBSCENE and OFFENSIVE are very subjective. One person may be uncomfortable with nude paintings and nude sculptures while another person would look at pornography and not be bothered by it one bit. Who decides? What's the standard? I remember reading that one of the MTRCB guidelines is that one breast is okay. TWO exposed breasts? Not okay. That was hilarious.

Please just Google it. This way you may be able to read the discussions in the cases. The standards are also there. The court is the final arbiter. If the MTRCB guidelines you mentioned are accurate, its really hilarious.

leomarley · « **Reply #102 on:** Oct 04, 2011 at 03:39 AM »

Quote from: jomgray on Oct 03, 2011 at 10:25 PM

Ahh, that one. If the priest really did say that, I don't agree with him. I don't find this obscene.

Just a reminder though, that priest in Cebu is not the "Church".

i agree but that priest is a representative of the Church and aligns his sermon with the views of the Church. let me remind you that this was what he said:

Quote

the priest told him that he will repeat his message of censorship and banning in the name of morality on his next mass this weekend

i would understand if he told people that it is only his view but by including it in his sermon he already represents the Church as a whole and took in his own hands the responsibility to censor which ever he deems is "immoral/obscene".

Panmunjom · « **Reply #103 on:** Oct 04, 2011 at 11:00 AM »

Quote from: leomarley on Oct 04, 2011 at 03:39 AM

i agree but that priest is a representative of the Church and aligns his sermon with the views of the Church. let me remind you that this was what he said:i would understand if he told people that it is only his view but by including it in his sermon he already represents the Church as a whole and took in his own hands the responsibility to censor which ever he deems is "immoral/obscene".

non sequitur

leomarley · « **Reply #104 on:** Oct 04, 2011 at 12:50 PM »

explain in detail why is it so? you haven't even explained why you said the church doesn't have double standards.

sharkey360 · « **Reply #105 on:** Oct 09, 2011 at 08:53 AM »

The other Sunday - October 2 - the priest (who examined my friend's copy of Catwoman #1) went on the offensive during a morning mass in Cebu. With what he saw - Batman and Catwoman about to have sex together - he told the churchgoers that "X-rated comics" will turn teenagers and children into bad and immoral adults.

Other words he used to describe comic books in general:

"Porn illustrated materials"
"Sinful graphic stories"

He also used vague claims that comic books can be just as dangerous as the allegedly obscene Cebu tabloids that have now become the targets of the provincial government under the watchful eye of the vice-governor (who by the way admitted that she's conceptualized the pending tabloid-ban ordinance less on law but more on her personal views as a mother and grandmother) who also happens to be supported by very religious Christians.

No telling if there were any legislators or members of the media who attended that mass, but it is possible that comic books in general could become a target of perceived indecency.

Back to the priest, he predictably called for censorship and moral cleansing. He vaguely claimed that Filipino society will continue to decline morally.

sardaukar · « **Reply #106 on:** Oct 09, 2011 at 09:31 AM »

^How do you think the sermon was received by the parishioners? Collective eye-rolling? General agreement? Or a collective shrug?

sharkey360 · « **Reply #107 on:** Oct 09, 2011 at 12:32 PM »

Quote from: sardaukar on Oct 09, 2011 at 09:31 AM

^How do you think the sermon was received by the parishioners? Collective eye-rolling? General agreement? Or a collective shrug?

According to my friend - who owned the mentioned Catwoman #1 that the priest saw - attended the same regular mass. The parishioners were silent although he noticed a few people around whispering.

It remains to be seen how people's perception about comics there will shape as a result of the said mass. My friend's observing there as I write this.

Dan · « **Reply #108 on:** Oct 09, 2011 at 02:13 PM »

Seduction of the Innocent, anyone? This priest wants to set back society by 60 years.

sharkey360 · « **Reply #109 on:** Oct 10, 2011 at 10:20 AM »

Does anyone here actually believe that the the cartoons Smurfs and My Little Pony are satanic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgFWtK2AoPk

sharkey360 · « **Reply #110 on:** Oct 10, 2011 at 10:36 AM »

Does the church want the following when it comes to democracy?

1) only allow good Catholics to vote
2) get rid of democracy altogether and instead install a Catholic dictatorship.

Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLaiXYRyKWA

"Benevolent dictatorship", "Catholic monarch", "How the universe is governed"

rusty · « **Reply #111 on:** Oct 17, 2011 at 09:01 AM »

Haunting BBC documentary exposes 50-year scandal of baby trafficking by the Catholic church in Spain

Identity crisis: Randy Ryder as a baby being cradled in a Malaga hospital in 1971 by the woman who bought him

Up to 300,000 Spanish babies were stolen from their parents and sold for adoption over a period of five decades, a new investigation reveals.

The children were trafficked by a secret network of doctors, nurses, priests and nuns in a widespread practice that began during General Franco’s dictatorship and continued until the early Nineties.

Hundreds of families who had babies taken from Spanish hospitals are now battling for an official government investigation into the scandal.
Several mothers say they were told their first-born children had died during or soon after they gave birth.

But the women, often young and unmarried, were told they could not see the body of the infant or attend their burial.

In reality, the babies were sold to childless couples whose devout beliefs and financial security meant that they were seen as more appropriate parents.

Official documents were forged so the adoptive parents’ names were on the infants’ birth certificates.

In many cases it is believed they were unaware that the child they received had been stolen, as they were usually told the birth mother had given them up.

Journalist Katya Adler, who has investigated the scandal, says: ‘The situation is incredibly sad for thousands of people.

‘There are men and women across Spain whose lives have been turned upside-down by discovering the people they thought were their parents actually bought them for cash. There are also many mothers who have maintained for years that their babies did not die – and were labelled “hysterical” – but are now discovering that their child has probably been alive and brought up by somebody else all this time.’

This World: Spain’s Stolen Babies is on BBC2 on Tuesday at 9pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html

Stolen Babies: Confronting Spain's Dark Past
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2059563,00.html

dorian_gray · « **Reply #112 on:** Oct 18, 2011 at 03:25 PM »

from one of my favourite artists...I am liking her more now!

Susan Sarandon calls Pope a 'Nazi'
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/confidential/susan-sarandon-calls-pope-a-nazi/story-e6frf96o-1226169884444

rusty · « **Reply #113 on:** Dec 07, 2011 at 11:50 PM »

CBCP wants anti-discrimination bill cleansed of provisions on gay rights
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/106981/cbcp-wants-anti-discrimination-bill-cleansed-of-provisions-on-gay-rights?

sharkey360 · « **Reply #114 on:** Dec 08, 2011 at 07:48 AM »

Quote from: rusty on Dec 07, 2011 at 11:50 PM

CBCP wants anti-discrimination bill cleansed of provisions on gay rights
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/106981/cbcp-wants-anti-discrimination-bill-cleansed-of-provisions-on-gay-rights?

See how discriminating they are?

sharkey360 · « **Reply #115 on:** Dec 11, 2011 at 09:09 AM »

George Carlin on the pro-life movement, conservatism and issues that concern religion. Carlin, raised Catholic himself, also talks about the Catholic norms as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #116 on:** Dec 11, 2011 at 10:26 AM »

Quote from: sharkey360 on Dec 11, 2011 at 09:09 AM

George Carlin on the pro-life movement, conservatism and issues that concern religion. Carlin, raised Catholic himself, also talks about the Catholic norms as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

If you ask me, I think the Philippines needs its own George Carlin.

leomarley · « **Reply #117 on:** Dec 11, 2011 at 01:00 PM »

Quote from: sharkey360 on Dec 11, 2011 at 09:09 AM

George Carlin on the pro-life movement, conservatism and issues that concern religion. Carlin, raised Catholic himself, also talks about the Catholic norms as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

what he says is both funny and true at the same time lol

sharkey360 · « **Reply #118 on:** Dec 14, 2011 at 08:00 AM »

A certain priest thought he had authority to have sex within the compound of a church in southern Cebu.

Acolytes, ministers ask Archdiocese: Stop priest who has sex in church compound

ONE of the priests of a parish in a Southern Cebu town was accused of having sex within the church’s compound on several occasions this year.

Some acolytes and a lay minister claimed that the priest had sex with two young women within the parish’s compound. One of the acolytes and the lay minister reported their complaint to Radio DySS yesterday morning.

The priest’s name is being withheld because Sun.Star Cebu could not reach him before press time.

A church official said in a separate interview that the incident shouldn’t have been publicized, as an internal investigation is being conducted to verify if the allegations are true.

One of the acolytes, who identified himself only as Greg, told Radio DySS that he and his colleague saw the sexual encounters from October to November this year.

Greg claimed that he and his colleagues were always surprised that the priest would sometimes go to a dark portion of the church’s compound after mass. One night, they followed the priest and claimed they saw a young woman who was waiting for him within the compound.

Greg claimed that the woman and the priest hid themselves in a dark portion of the compound and started having sex.

He also alleged that he found out the woman would usually come into the church’s compound through a gate at the back of the church.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/2011/12/10/acolytes-ministers-ask-archdiocese-stop-priest-who-has-sex-church-compoun

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #119 on:** Dec 17, 2011 at 10:09 AM »

Dutch Catholic Church abused children.

Wow...just wow. Bakit sa Philippines wala masyado narereport? (3, maybe 4....adult women over the years I've been alive) Mababait ba talaga ang mga pari dito or is the Catholic Church has such a powerful stranglehold on the politicians, government officials and the poor people here that the cover-ups are far more effective?

It's easier to believe the latter rather than the former.