Author Topic: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?  (Read 9932 times)

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Offline Stagea

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #60 on: Nov 22, 2011 at 04:08 PM »
Bro napakalaki nung Dynes for example...it needs a lot of room at the back, at the sides and in between to reach its full potential. Andun yung dynamics yes but the speaker can't deliver what it is designed for since it's operating inside a room that is very small.

Parang pinatakbo mo yung F1 car as Carmona Racing Circuit which was built primarily for scooters and karts.

Bro, I'm not saying that they don't need space. I'm saying that the disappearing act in that setting is not directly related to the speaker's size (it may be indirectly, as you may see below). Here's my explanation for my statement:

Walls will cause reflections, whether the speaker is large or small (in fact, a multi-driver array's reflections are largely discordant, which should reduce the evident localization if you were to use the same speaker location). This is why a small speaker in a small room may get the right tonal balance, but it will still be subject to the limitations set by the room's boundaries.

Large speakers generally need space around them to prevent the lows from bloating, because these speakers are often tuned to work in bigger rooms (where they won't get much boundary loading).

Multiple driver arrays also typically have greater path-length-differences between drivers, which typically means that the output would not be phase-coherent until you reach the correct distance (when the PLDs shrink enough), unless the passive network is phase-manipulated (or in active systems, delays can be introduced electronically) to adjust the focus time (or in some speakers like the Grande Utopia EM, the drivers can move physically to adjust for this). Since most large speakers lack this capability, they typically need to be further away from the listener for them to deliver a correct sound (free of evident phase issues).

The small PLDs in smaller speakers allow them to sound good from a closer distance. This is partly why they are suitable for smaller rooms, since you can place them closer together (further from the walls) because you can sit closer to them without much degradation (and thus still maintaining optimal spread). You can help them "disappear" by doing this, but it's really because you moved them away from the boundaries (and not because they're smaller).

Offline synchro_01

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #61 on: Nov 22, 2011 at 07:40 PM »
Yun nga eh..the big speakers like the Dynes, B&W804 and the Salon 2 are multi driver floor standers. You need to have a certain distance to these speakers in order for them to do the vanishing act and in conjunction the speakers themselves needs to have a certain amount of room in the sides, back and in between plus you have to listen to them at a certain distance as well otherwise the holographic illusion would be simply lost. When Stereophile tested the Salon 2 the reviewer used a room that is 27 x 15 x 14 feet na may high cathedral type of ceiling to boot. Mark Levinson din ginamit na amplification and the reviewer voted it as one of the top five speakers that he ever listened to. The speakers were positioned 6.5 feet away from the back wall and around 3.5 ft from the side walls. The listening position was 7 feet away from the speakers. I dont think the hotel room was that big to showcase the Salon 2's true potential. In the case of the 8 series it's the same..and IMHO there is no such thing as a B&W that is voiced not to do the disappearing act. If that was the case then nobody would even consider them for their systems. Either the small room, Poor placement and poor listening position or a combination of all three kaya below par ang performance. Been listening to an 805 every weekend for the past 4 years using Rotel and sometimes Classe amplification and never did it fail to give that illusion of holography. Yun nga na murang speaker ilagay sa kwarto na tama yung dimensions and proper acoustics will sound like its ten times more expensive plus it just might give a holographic presentation as well. Inversely put a big speaker with multi drivers and shoehorn it inside a small room plus making ka ng near field eh parang mali from the get go. Excited lang yata talaga yung exhibitors dalhin yung big guns nila. Ferdie of Cebu is one of those who bucks the trend..he always brings in the right speakers for the size of the room every Hi Fi show plus he equips the room with his acoustics as well kaya every year his exhibit is always a sheer joy to visit. The others just like to bring the biggest and baddest set up that they sell...period.

Now if LIS would get one of those small ballrooms next year and let's those Dynes/Halcro's loose then you will hear the 1.7M speaker sound like it is...or even more.
« Last Edit: Nov 22, 2011 at 08:23 PM by synchro_01 »
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Offline ninjababez®

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #62 on: Nov 22, 2011 at 08:29 PM »
slamat sir... :)
wrong info bro, basa ko AE  ;D
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Offline defcon3

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #63 on: Nov 22, 2011 at 09:55 PM »
wrong info bro, basa ko AE  ;D
nga sir,nagapologyze na ako kay avshop,tot they have it too...i saw AR site and sir conan is right, and they don't sell anymore speakers. i just wanted to check kc kung feasible to purchase ung offer dito na AR3 unit. mahirapan pala dahil wala ng mabibilhan sakali ng driver or parts nun pag masira.

Offline Stagea

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #64 on: Nov 22, 2011 at 11:41 PM »
When Stereophile tested the Salon 2 the reviewer used a room that is 27 x 15 x 14 feet na may high cathedral type of ceiling to boot. Mark Levinson din ginamit na amplification and the reviewer voted it as one of the top five speakers that he ever listened to. The speakers were positioned 6.5 feet away from the back wall and around 3.5 ft from the side walls. The listening position was 7 feet away from the speakers. I dont think the hotel room was that big to showcase the Salon 2's true potential.
The Salon 2 measures nearly flat in an anechoic chamber for essentially the entire audible range, and would thus sound closer to correct in a very open space. Theoretically, they should even sound good outdoors. :)

In the case of the 8 series it's the same..and IMHO there is no such thing as a B&W that is voiced not to do the disappearing act. If that was the case then nobody would even consider them for their systems. Either the small room, Poor placement and poor listening position or a combination of all three kaya below par ang performance. Been listening to an 805 every weekend for the past 4 years using Rotel and sometimes Classe amplification and never did it fail to give that illusion of holography.
Most current B&Ws have a bump in the 10kHz region when placed on-axis (from the 600 series to the 800 series), which should make them sound more detailed than the previous generations (with everything else being the same). It's probably a direction/character that the company wanted to explore. However, this has a tendency to make them stick out in the sound stage, unless you compensate for that quality with less toe or warmer sounding components/interconnects (hence my prior statement).

Yun nga na murang speaker ilagay sa kwarto na tama yung dimensions and proper acoustics will sound like its ten times more expensive plus it just might give a holographic presentation as well. Inversely put a big speaker with multi drivers and shoehorn it inside a small room plus making ka ng near field eh parang mali from the get go. Excited lang yata talaga yung exhibitors dalhin yung big guns nila.
I agree. I think part of it is to make their display look more imposing/impressive (or maybe because those with budgets to buy flagship products typically look for the bigger models).

Ferdie of Cebu is one of those who bucks the trend..he always brings in the right speakers for the size of the room every Hi Fi show plus he equips the room with his acoustics as well kaya every year his exhibit is always a sheer joy to visit. The others just like to bring the biggest and baddest set up that they sell...period.
Unfortunately, I did not get the chance to enter Ferdie's room this year, which is why I missed the YG demo. :(
« Last Edit: Nov 22, 2011 at 11:41 PM by Stagea »

Offline at_sunset_blvd

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #65 on: Nov 24, 2011 at 08:10 PM »
I had this idea of an owner type jeep with a 6L V12 bi-turbo engine, 7 speed tiptronic transmission, bi-xenon HID headlamps, airmatic suspension,carbon ceramic disc brakes, carbonfiber body panels over an aluminum spaceframe chassis and mark levinson sound system. I wonder how it would look though and if it would cost less than 1.3M

ICON Jeeps cost $50k or more depending on the options like SUB-ZERO fridge hinges for the doors but less the Mark Levinson system  ;)
But if I have it dough, I would go for the speakers ;D
« Last Edit: Nov 24, 2011 at 08:12 PM by at_sunset_blvd »
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Offline defcon3

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #66 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 04:07 AM »
i was browsing the net when i saw this.....give me your opinion on these speaker/set up specially the 1st one.. :D, i know it looks silly but i guess the owner did his homework well...

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1225733731

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?116650-Whats-the-best-looking-speakers-you-ever-seen


« Last Edit: Dec 07, 2011 at 04:07 AM by defcon3 »

Offline jay2

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #67 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 07:16 AM »

Ang lupit naman ng mga gears nya mukhang hindi na audio ang hobby kundi collector na ng mga gamit  ;D
Ano kaya ang tunog ng subwoofer nya, laki ng kahon

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1226235602.jpg

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #68 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 07:38 AM »
Ang lupit naman ng mga gears nya mukhang hindi na audio ang hobby kundi collector na ng mga gamit  ;D
Ano kaya ang tunog ng subwoofer nya, laki ng kahon

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1226235602.jpg

In wall sub.  :D Cut-offed daw somewhere sa 77 hz ata. dunno kung yun yun highest or lowest cut-off.

Offline ninjababez®

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #69 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 08:54 AM »
In wall sub.  :D Cut-offed daw somewhere sa 77 hz ata. dunno kung yun yun highest or lowest cut-off.
prolly lower, parang lumalabas infinite baffle sya (tama ba term/spelling)  ;D
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Offline markcrenz

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #70 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 12:41 PM »
In wall sub.  :D Cut-offed daw somewhere sa 77 hz ata. dunno kung yun yun highest or lowest cut-off.
yung grande utopia mo don nelson ano cutoff ng sub?
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Offline defcon3

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #71 on: Dec 07, 2011 at 01:24 PM »
In wall sub.  :D Cut-offed daw somewhere sa 77 hz ata. dunno kung yun yun highest or lowest cut-off.
baka highest sir, dahil nasa itaas ung sub? :D :D :D

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: anyone would want to spend 1.3million for speaker?
« Reply #72 on: Dec 08, 2011 at 07:12 AM »
prolly lower, parang lumalabas infinite baffle sya (tama ba term/spelling)  ;D

Lower nga.:

11-03-08   Your system is out of this world! can you tell us more about ...   Luna

11-03-08: Ecd0317
Yes. This is my system.

- Behind the wall is a bass horn - W 5,7m x H 4,0m x D 2,0m - Driver Fostex Fw800N - Cutting frequency to 71Hz
- Large wooden horn - Driver Westrex T530 - Cutting frequency from 400Hz to 1,600Hz.
- Small wooden horn - Driver Jim Lansing 375 - Cutting frequency from 1,600Hz to 5,000Hz.

SS amp matching with A bass horn Fostex Fw800N.
cheers

yung grande NAtope-a mo don nelson ano cutoff ng sub?

Dati sa previous place namin, nasa 55 hz. Ngayon sa current room, nasa 45 hz. Mighty mouse sub yun.  ;D