Author Topic: Panasonic Plasma 2012  (Read 72533 times)

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Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #30 on: Mar 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM »
Thanks for the info.

Based on this year's very late release dates, the low-end 2012 units might come out in August 2012, and the higher-end maybe in summer of 2013. 

Offline barrister

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Offline kelz

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #32 on: Mar 25, 2012 at 09:17 PM »
any chance for the V30 to be released here? I've been going around stores looking for V20 and I can't seem to find one. That's the only TV that I'd consider buying now. These smart TV's really don't impress me. I should've gotten the V20 last year when I had the chance. Now I'm stuck with these expensive SMART LED's if I were to upgrade. Fancy designs although inferior PQ.

Offline Ryan_C1114

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« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2012 at 10:23 PM by Ryan_C1114 »

Offline halvert

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #34 on: Mar 26, 2012 at 04:32 PM »
@kelz
a seller in the marketplace named DOM might have a 42 v20 for 47-48k

Offline ferdinand

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #35 on: Mar 27, 2012 at 05:21 AM »
any chance for the V30 to be released here? I've been going around stores looking for V20 and I can't seem to find one. That's the only TV that I'd consider buying now. These smart TV's really don't impress me. I should've gotten the V20 last year when I had the chance. Now I'm stuck with these expensive SMART LED's if I were to upgrade. Fancy designs although inferior PQ.
Smart TV is the most blunder product produced.   I noticed a salesman in Glorietta trying hard to impress the buyer by using smart tv on enternet, it was an awful effort.    Plasma technology is the best on video.

Kung ano anong added features para lang mabiii yung tv product nila na hindi naman talaga kailangan, parang receiver.  :D :D :D
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2012 at 05:22 AM by ferdinand »

Offline halvert

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #36 on: Mar 28, 2012 at 04:42 PM »
@kelz again: a seller named tein in the display devices marketplace is selling a 42v20 for P45,000

Offline Clondalkin

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #37 on: Mar 29, 2012 at 07:48 AM »
Hi Halvert!
What about you?  Hehehe.  Interesting price - like 30% off the street prices in 2010.

@kelz again: a seller named tein in the display devices marketplace is selling a 42v20 for P45,000

Offline halvert

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #38 on: Mar 29, 2012 at 11:49 AM »
^hi sir, kahapon ko lang kasi nakita yan, e nakabili na ako ng 42ut30 sa listen up sa glorietta. Ok naman to my untrained eyes kahit hindi neo pdp.

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #39 on: Mar 30, 2012 at 06:23 PM »
i tested the 50x30 and 50 ut30. Honestly, i can not see much difference except that the skin tone on the ut30 is better. And slightly better depth. However, i can not find much difference in terms of black level.

Playing a dvd upscaled by a pioneer blurry player, i find the x30 rendering better details. perhaps its because of the jump small jump from 480 to 720.

Playing a 1080p bluray (spiderman) at a distance of about 8ft, the ut30 has cleaner picture. I can see the pixels of the x30.

Finally played a 1080p DL on the ut30, i was very impressed with the picture. Ang linaw. And the colors are just great.

I wanted to try ut30 vs ST30 but they don't have a 50 model for the st. BUt for the price difference of about 20k, i think i will settle for the ut30.

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #40 on: Mar 30, 2012 at 06:29 PM »
^hi sir, kahapon ko lang kasi nakita yan, e nakabili na ako ng 42ut30 sa listen up sa glorietta. Ok naman to my untrained eyes kahit hindi neo pdp.

sir halvert, how do you find your new tv? feedback please.

Offline halvert

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #41 on: Mar 30, 2012 at 08:00 PM »
here's what i wrote in the panasonic 42ut30 thread:
So I tested it out over the weekend and to my untrained eyes all my videos look better compared to my LCD panasonic 32lx80. I blurted out Oh my God when I played a downloaded video because the picture looked so good. But I must say that the video from my external hard disk looks better when viewed using my samsung bluray player than just connected straight to the tv's usb slot.
It can play mp4, mkv, avi files but some lost their audio.
The panel is very glossy/reflective so you really need curtains.
I downloaded some free movie trailers and videos and 3D was just amazing, especially the sample video from Imax's under the sea.
Sumakit ang ulo ko after watching 2dto 3d converted videos after a while.
Since hindi ito neo-pdp panel, pag toal darkness scene at nakapatay ang ilaw, i can still see light coming from the tv. pag neo-pdp yata, pag total darkness, parang nakapatay ang tv.
I'm quite happy with my purchase though if i had the money, i would buy the 42st30. Full HD was a big factor on my choice. 3d was just a bonus.


Offline mandyb

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #42 on: Mar 30, 2012 at 09:30 PM »
Another forum says the ST50 is using VT30 panels..

As mentioned in an earlier post here the ST isnt available in Japan for this year, so this might be true as marketing dictates a lot in N. America.

IMHO all tv models have issues. Someone will always find one. Its a good idea to buy panels at least a little over half of the year as any flaws could be corrected by board upgrades, firmware, etc..
I really envy the US consumers as you could return items within 30 days without questions.. If you think its not good then just simply bring it back for a refund.

Im quite surprised that the GT30 was supposed to have issues to begin with but in the end it was all sorted and very happy with my purchase so far. If i remember correctly the ST series won TV of the year US/UK noting price/picture performance.(ill get the source later)

You guys can also check out the hard core videophiles at the AVS forums specially PDP panels thread. Warning though, you might not end up or just sit on the fence the whole time and never buy a tv after just waiting for the right(perfect)set....
« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2012 at 09:34 PM by mandyb »

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #43 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 01:19 AM »
Another forum says the ST50 is using VT30 panels..

That's unlikely.  The VT30 (2011) has the green blob problem, but the ST50 (2012) does not.

Panasonic says the 2012 panels are new and substantially re-engineered, not just carryovers of last year's panels. For example, the VT30 has a 600Hz Sub-Field Drive, but this year's ST50 has the 2500Hz Focused Field Drive.  


If we interpret Panasonic’s marketing material correctly, motion quality has been the company’s focus in terms of picture quality this year. The company claims that the Focused Field Drive (present on the European ST50 series in its lesser “2000hz” incarnation rather than the “2500hz” available on the GT50 and VT50 displays – and, interestingly, on the North American ST50 series) is a motion detection and panel driving algorithm which structures the stages of light output from the plasma panel in a way which is both better suited to the specific video being displayed on screen, and better suited to the way in which the human visual system (the eyes and brain) see motion. Full details on this are scant, but our interpretation of the diagrams Panasonic provided us with is that previous plasmas used a fixed, linear light output mode, and the “Focused Field Drive” models use a more intelligent content-adaptive mode.

Although the prototype displays we saw at the Panasonic Convention last month appeared no different to the 2011 models (even when we changed them into their accurate picture modes), now that we have the real released product in our test room, we can see that the motion quality on the Panasonic TX-P42ST50B is significantly improved compared to even last year’s high-end Panasonic Plasmas. When we ran our tried and trusted full-motion test clips from the FPD Benchmark disc, we were impressed at both the motion sharpness (which has never been a problem on any Plasma television we’ve reviewed) and also the quality and cleanness in the moving areas (which seems to be harder to perfect).


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st50b-p42st50-201203191731.htm


That's why in 2012, a plasma enthusiast should wait for a 2012 Panasonic, if he wants to try out the latest improvements in plasma technology.

« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM by barrister »

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #44 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 07:51 AM »
is the ut30 a 2011 model?

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #45 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 09:19 AM »
another question - whats the advantage of a neo-pdp? is it worth the price?

Offline halvert

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #46 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 11:18 AM »
Yup, 2011 model ang mga 30 ang ending. 2012 ang 50 kasi malas / sounds like death ang 4 sa japan kaya nag-skip sila. Sabi ng experts, ang neo pdp produces deeper blacks and more vibrant colors. Mas power efficient, thinner  and environment friendly daw. Is it worth the price? I don't know. Let your eyes be the judge. Ako happy na sa full hd plasma ko.

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #47 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 11:37 AM »
Yup, 2011 model ang mga 30 ang ending. 2012 ang 50 kasi malas / sounds like death ang 4 sa japan kaya nag-skip sila. Sabi ng experts, ang neo pdp produces deeper blacks and more vibrant colors. Mas power efficient, thinner  and environment friendly daw. Is it worth the price? I don't know. Let your eyes be the judge. Ako happy na sa full hd plasma ko.

To think that i can not even distinguish the difference between the x30 and ut30. hehe. except that i can see pixelation on white background. but at my viewing distance of around 8-10 ft. i don't think it will matter.

sir halbert (sorry dami tanong), when fed with a 720p source, does your tv lose sharpness?


Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #48 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 12:20 PM »
To think that i can not even distinguish the difference between the x30 and ut30. hehe. except that i can see pixelation on white background. but at my viewing distance of around 8-10 ft. i don't think it will matter.

You're right.  At your viewing distance, they will look practically the same.

Pareho lang naman talaga ang X30 at UT30, except for the higher native resolution on the UT30.  X30 and UT30 have regular panels.  They are not NeoPDP.  Naturally, the UT30's native resolution advantage will make pixels less visible at close distances.

However, standard def DVDs on Panny's regular panels traditionally perform better on 720p (1024x768 or 1366x768) models than on Full HD (1920x1080) models.  Based on that, DVDs might look better on an X30 than on a UT30 from a normal viewing distance.



another question - whats the advantage of a neo-pdp? is it worth the price?

NeoPDP is panasonic's name for its high-end 1080p panels from 2009 to 2010.  For the 2011 and 2012 series, they now call it "NeoPlasma."

The advantage of NeoPDP/NeoPlasma is that power consumption is lower, the panel is brighter, black levels are darker, and rendition of standard def DVD material is better.

Is it worth the price?  In my opinion, no.  That's because NeoPDP had major issues.  The 2009 NeoPDP had rising blacks; the 2010 rising blacks were reduced, but the issue was still there; the 2011 NeoPlasma fixed the rising blacks but got the green blob issue.

For 2012, the NeoPlasma models might be worth the money, if no major issues will appear.  So far, there have been no reported issues on the NeoPlasma 50 series units.  Rising blacks fixed; green blob issue fixed.  Power consumption further reduced; panel is brighter; black levels are darker.  600Hz sub-field drive now upgraded to 2500Hz focused field drive.  

« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2012 at 12:44 PM by barrister »

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #49 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 12:54 PM »
Cnet review:


Panasonic TC-P60ST50



 ... Comparing initial black level measurements, however, the ST50's stellar 0.005 Fl (see the Geek Box below) is still darker than even the VT30's initial measurement (0.0061). Of course I can't say how the ST50 will age, but if the 2011 Panasonics are any indication, it won't get much worse during the first year.

... In the past I've complained about Panasonic plasmas' tendency toward too-green skin tones, red push or lack of saturation, but the ST50 had none of these issues. It delivered the most accurate color I've seen on any Panasonic after a user-menu-only calibration.

... The bottom line: With flagship-level picture quality for a midlevel price, the Panasonic ST50 series sets the value standard among videophile-grade TVs.


http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60st50/4505-6482_7-35118301.html#reviewPage1

« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2012 at 12:56 PM by barrister »

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #50 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 06:46 PM »
You're right.  At your viewing distance, they will look practically the same.

Pareho lang naman talaga ang X30 at UT30, except for the higher native resolution on the UT30.  X30 and UT30 have regular panels.  They are not NeoPDP.  Naturally, the UT30's native resolution advantage will make pixels less visible at close distances.

However, standard def DVDs on Panny's regular panels traditionally perform better on 720p (1024x768 or 1366x768) models than on Full HD (1920x1080) models.  Based on that, DVDs might look better on an X30 than on a UT30 from a normal viewing distance.


no wonder, when we played regular dvd, i pointed out to the salesman that the x30 has sharper picture than the ut30. So he immediately went to adjust the ut30, unsuccessfully. so i guess, my observation was right, that playing regular dvd, the x30 performed better.

however, the ut30 has better skin tone renditions.

when i asked my son to point out which has better picture, he pointed to the x30 to the dismay of salesman. He kept on pointing out that the ut30 has better blacks, which i can not differentiate.

question sir barrister - playing a 720p source, will the ut30 perform better than the x30? similarly, playing 1080p source, will the x30 play poorly?

btw, the difference between the x30 and ut30 is about 14-15k. Im trying to see if the price difference is worth it.

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #51 on: Mar 31, 2012 at 08:40 PM »
no wonder, when we played regular dvd, i pointed out to the salesman that the x30 has sharper picture than the ut30. So he immediately went to adjust the ut30, unsuccessfully. so i guess, my observation was right, that playing regular dvd, the x30 performed better.

however, the ut30 has better skin tone renditions.

when i asked my son to point out which has better picture, he pointed to the x30 to the dismay of salesman. He kept on pointing out that the ut30 has better blacks, which i can not differentiate.

It's easier to upscale from 480p (DVD source resolution) to 720p (X30 native resolution) than it is to upscale from 480p to 1080p (UT30 native resolution), assuming that both the 720p and 1080p TVs have similar panels and software generations.  It's the big jump from 480p to 1080p that gives the scaling softwares of the TV and the player a harder job.

But it is possible to render a good SD upscale on a Full HD panel.  The higher-end NeoPDP/NeoPlasma models, all of which are 1080p native panels, render very good pictures from DVD sources.  It's just that Panny doesn't use the good scaling software on the lower-end 1080p plasmas.

 

question sir barrister - playing a 720p source, will the ut30 perform better than the x30? similarly, playing 1080p source, will the x30 play poorly?

btw, the difference between the x30 and ut30 is about 14-15k. Im trying to see if the price difference is worth it.

There's no way to tell until I actually eyeball the two units in a side-by-side comparison.  I can only guess that 1080p and 720p will look similar on both units, but 480p will look better on the X30.

Why? Because it's easier to downscale than to upscale.

On the UT30, a 1080p source looks good since all the TV has to do is render a 1:1 pixel map from the source to the panel; a 720p source looks good because it's a close match to the native resolution; but a 480p source will not look so good because it's a big upward jump to scale it to 1080p.

On the X30, a 480p source looks good because it's a close match to the native resolution; a 720p source looks good because it's an even closer match to the native resolution; and a 1080p source looks good because the downscaling process simply removes unnecessary pixels, making it an easy job for the scaling software.



btw, the difference between the x30 and ut30 is about 14-15k. Im trying to see if the price difference is worth it.

It depends on your requirements.

You have a viewing distance of 8 to 10 feet -- get the X30.  You might need the extra resolution if there are times when there are a lot of guests, and some of them need to sit up close to the TV -- get the UT30.  You have a lot of SD material --- get the X30.  You hardly watch any SD DVD anymore --- get the UT30.

My personal recommendation: X30.  The 2012 models provide a big jump in improved tech, so I wouldn't want to spend more than I have to on older tech.  P15K is a lot of money.  If you buy cheap now, you'll get a better 1080p TV for a smaller price difference the next time you upgrade.

« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2012 at 08:44 PM by barrister »

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #52 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 08:49 AM »
Thank you sir barrister for the enlightenment.

Yes i still do have a lot of sd materials which i have no plans of disposing as of now. Though I'm sloooowly shifting to high def.

last question, if i have a player that can upscale better than the TV, would our premise about upscaling from 480 to 720 and 480 to 1080 still holds? or the ut30 would now be at par with the x30 playing upscaled sd?

i suspect that though we used a pioneer blu ray player, it was the tvs that did the upscaling, hence the x30 beating the u30.

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #53 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 10:27 AM »
Thank you sir barrister for the enlightenment.

Yes i still do have a lot of sd materials which i have no plans of disposing as of now. Though I'm sloooowly shifting to high def.

last question, if i have a player that can upscale better than the TV, would our premise about upscaling from 480 to 720 and 480 to 1080 still holds? or the ut30 would now be at par with the x30 playing upscaled sd?

i suspect that though we used a pioneer blu ray player, it was the tvs that did the upscaling, hence the x30 beating the u30.


That would make sense in theory, but there's some other factor I don't know about that's going on in the TV itself.

Carlo777 is the member who has done extensive testing on many plasma TVs.  I requested him to do DVD testing on HD-Ready and Full HD Panny plasmas, because I wanted to confirm my theory.  

The result?  My theory was confirmed on Panny plasmas with regular (not NeoPDP) panels.  DVDs look better on 720p sets than on 1080p sets, regardless of whether it was the player or the TV that was doing the upscaling.  If the player is the one upscaling to 1080p, and both TVs receive the same 1080p signal, why does the 720p TV still look better from a normal viewing distance?  I don't know.  It must be the panel itself.  Maybe it's easier to render a better picture from an inferior source such as an upscaled 480p DVD if the panel has a lower native resolution.

How about the NeoPDPs?  When the NeoPDPs were released, Carlo777 bought a 42G10 import.  He reported that DVDs look good on the new 1080p panel, just like the old 720p panel.  From then on, his recommendation was, if you want good DVD performance on a non-NeoPDPD panel, get a 720p TV.

So my conclusion is that it's not just the upscaling, it's also the panel and the internal software of the TV.

« Last Edit: Apr 01, 2012 at 10:30 AM by barrister »

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #54 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 04:47 PM »
here are the additional specs of the ut30 (vs x30) as pm'd to me by a seller:

Resolution Enhancer Yes
Moving Picture Resolution 1080 lines
3D 24p Film Display/Smooth Film Yes
2D/3D Conversion
Dolby Digital/dts DolbyPulse/dts2.0/dts Digital Out
3D 24p Smooth Film
USB 3
intelligent picture

now this is where it got weird. i went back to the shop to compare the two tvs again.Using same settings, i decided to concentrate on upscaled 480p. The source was Pearl Harbor playing on a blu ray player ( i don't know what brand). This time around, the x30's jagginess showed up. The ut30 has smoother rendering and color is very pleasant. My previous observation that the x30 is reddish did show up.

also, from my previous observation and verified today, the ut30 has smoother movements specially seen in animations. Is it because of the 24p smooth film feature? Maybe.

they played a 1080 source, Wild HOGS, again the better skin tone on the ut30.

I suspect that player upscaling is way better than tv upscaling (can anybody confirm this?).

If my theory is correct (about player upscaling capabilities) then, a full hd can play at par with a HD-ready plasma.

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #55 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 04:49 PM »
also, i find the picture of ut30 a little glossy while the x30 is matte.

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #56 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 09:51 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post your inputs.  User reviews are always very interesting to me.



For additional reference, try browsing some of Carlo777's inputs about the X30:

Panasonic X30 review (42/50)

DVD:

Being a 720p native model, again these entry level models from Panasonic does wonders for DVD.


On to the conclusion:

Pros
+Very good dvd picture quality
+Great true high definition picture performance despite being "just" a 720p native TV
+Superb viewing angles
+Very good screen uniformity (no clouds and overly bright screen areas)
+Spot on input response time for games
+Very well priced

Cons
-Reflective screen
-Green phosphor lag during high contrast scenes
-An X20 clone in a new suit



also, i find the picture of ut30 a little glossy while the x30 is matte.

Are you sure about this?  I don't think the X30 has an anti-reflective filter.   AFAIK, the screen is plain glass, and it should be just as glossy.


« Last Edit: Apr 01, 2012 at 09:51 PM by barrister »

Offline barrister

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #57 on: Apr 01, 2012 at 09:56 PM »
UK Review: 2012 Plasma 42ST50:


Panasonic TX-P42ST50B Plasma TV Review (Updated With 3D)
By David Mackenzie • 19 March 2012 • Verdict: Highly Recommended • Typical price: £1250  





http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st50b-p42st50-201203191731.htm

Offline Oloap

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #58 on: Apr 02, 2012 at 06:44 AM »
Are you sure about this?  I don't think the X30 has an anti-reflective filter.   AFAIK, the screen is plain glass, and it should be just as glossy.


I confirmed this with one of the owners and he agreed the the ut30 is "glossy" (not reflective since i think both models used the same glass. both are equally reflective).

another thing, the white in x30 is "whiter" than ut30.
Thanks for taking the time to post your inputs.  User reviews are always very interesting to me.


welcome. I'm interested in getting as much information as sharing them. i always try to be an informed buyer.


Offline kenobi

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Re: Panasonic Plasma 2012
« Reply #59 on: Apr 02, 2012 at 10:05 AM »
@Oloap

I have the same dilemma like you but in the end I settled for x30 which I purchased yesterday. I checked the specs of the ut30 and I noticed it only has 900 lines of Moving Resolutions, not really 1080 lines.

Since I will be using it for 50% cable viewing (SD) and 50% Movie watching (720/1080), the x30 is really good for me :D

I will just check the 2012 models when it becomes available here :)