Author Topic: Home Theater In a Box (HTiB) 101 (Read 66563 times)

MeowPao · « **on:** Dec 27, 2001 at 11:43 PM »

Hi everyone!

Can you guys help me on what DVD system to pick? I've narrowed it down to 2:

Sony MHC-DP100D:
http://www.sony.com.ph/products/hifi/mini/mhc-dp1000d.html

Sony MHC-S9D:
http://www.sony.com.ph/products/hifi/mini/mhc-s9d.html

Can you help me pick which should I get?

I'm more partial to all-in / complete systems, but if you people have better suggestions, I'm all ears!

TY!

alfred · « **Reply #1 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 09:09 AM »

Meowpao,

Check mo if it can play all region pirated DVDs (not that I endorsed it, baka lang may-mahiram ka). Kasi Sony ang nagstart nito (RCE). Eh medyo nag-backfire sa kanila. With RCE encoded DVD di mo ma-play ito sa all region player (pero sa Pioneer puede). May thread d2 re: RCE encoded DVDs. Check mo na lang.

Mods,

Tama ba pinagsasabi ko?

afterglow · « **Reply #2 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 09:48 AM »

Hmmm...... I'm more into separates but let's see if I can help. What sort of budget are you looking at?? Also, what are you looking for in your system?? Convenience? Looks? Performance? Upgradability?

If you're after convenience, then by all means go with one of the Sonys but I have to warn you that there tends to be a premium charged for Sony products. Although Sony electronics do work well, if I were saving money one of the last brands I would look at would be Sony. In this case, both systems use only 1-way 3" speakers for the center and rears (ala Bose).

If you're looking more into performance and upgradability then perhaps we can recommend a separate system (DVD player, receiver, 5.1 speakers).....just give us a budget. If your budget is tight, then I suggest getting your speakers piece-by-piece. Mains first, then rears, then center, followed last by the sub.

If you are set on one of the Sonys, I'd rather get the MHC-S9D because they are separates, which would mean they have separate power supplies.

MeowPao · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 10:18 AM »

My budget is around 40K, this is very likely not enough for good separates.

Then again, I've been eyeing an all-in-one system, since I'm still quite new with DVD systems, and I'm still confused by all those cables (read my thread about the splitters

). I skipped Laser Discs and VCDs (never owned any media of those types) since I think DVDs have the potential to last a long time (in the market, that is).

Now you guys got me worried with that 'RCE' thing. What player do you think can I get (within budget) that has this enabled?

Oh, what is the advantage of having 'separate power supplies'? Would you believe that the DP1000D and the MHCS9D are almost similar in specs but the prices difference is around 6-7K?

barrid · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 04:57 PM »

Mini Compo system ba ang nasa isip mo o kahit ibang all in one system [ht in the box]? Kasi parang na miss mo ang DAV S500 ng Sony. Okey din kasi yun. Kung ako sa iyo. Titignan ko rin ang ibang HT In The Box. Mas mahusay yun kaysa sa mini compo system. At pareho rin ang wiring. Speaker wire na lang ang ikakabit mo at coded pa. Nalimutan ko lang ang thread dito. Pero may Sony, Panasonic at Pioneer HT in the box owner na member dito. Tulad ko, panasonic nga lang ang system ko.

MeowPao · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 09:03 PM »

My problem is that I do not have a good TV that can make full use of that HT in a box( I did check out that Sony DAV S500) . I'm eyeing that Sony Wega 29", but that's for next year, and I'll be consulting you guys then.

Also, that Mini Compo by Sony DOES look good.

I've been looking around the net to see if their machines can run that RCE thing. I'll be going off to check those Pinoneer compos later.

I've checked the prices pala, that MHC-S9D is P38,999.00 while the MHC-DP1000D is P32,999.00 at Anson's. Get this, they have a promo (kuno): FREE DVD AND P1,000 gift certificate from Landmank. Also, you can pay the SAME AMOUNT using BPI Cards. Di ba other stores give you a surcharge and all?

levi · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 09:37 PM »

Hello meowpao,

Chk this out:

just bought pioneer htd-1
What type of DVD player do you own? Part 2
Starting a budget HT system
home theater on a budget
Regional Coding Enhancement

I changed your title so others can post about HT in a Box here. Thank you.

levi · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 10:01 PM »

Meowpao,
HT in a Box is a good start to enjoy DVD if you want it simple, fix budget, and you have a small area. As you enjoy collecting and watching DVDs, you will soon have the urge to upgrade but HT in a Box may not be expandable. I suggest you try to start with separate systems. You can start purchasing one at a time until you get to complete your home theater and in that way you get a better selection of equipments. I know a few who started with HT in a Box and after few months they shifted to separates, then they are faced with a problem of disposing their HT in a Box or sometimes feel and say "sayang, i should have put the original budget in the separates from the start."
Also, if something gets wrong in your HT in a box, the whole thing is broken unlike separates if the amp is broken, the rest are stll intact. So you just buy a new amp or have it repaired.

MeowPao · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 10:18 PM »

Hi Levi! You seem to be mad with my handle! Daming versions! hahaha!

Anyway, I've given some thought to your comments. I've also thought about that 'want to upgrade' situation. This is why I've been a bit partial to Mini-Components. At least when I tire of it, I can bring it somewhere else, like the office, or another room, where I can use it to play music.

What I wanted was when I get that Wega, THEN I think about those separates seriously.

Guess what my TV right now?

afterglow · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 10:20 PM »

Since you're planning to upgrade your TV next year, it looks like you've got the beginnings of the HT bug. If that's the case, I strongly suggest you go with separates instead of the mini-compo solution. The problem with the all-in-one approach is that when you want to upgrade (you will, sooner rather than later)you will have to get rid of the entire system since there's no upgrade path. With separates, you just get rid of the component that doesn't satisfy you.

It's tempting to get the 5.1 effect all at once but patiently getting the best components you can is really worth it....

If you've got PhP40K, you can go about it this way:
Receiver: 20K (Kenwood? Onkyo? Denon?)
DVD player: 10-15K (depending if you go generic or branded)
Mains: JBL N-24 (PhP8,020)
For this price range, I suggest getting the JBL N-24 for mains. You can add another pair of N-24s for surrounds and the N-center(PhP6,500). Add a sub of your choice later on. If you want to get them all together, you'll have to shell out PhP20,500 for the JBLs + 8K and up for the sub.

barrid · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 10:44 PM »

Guys,

Seems like our friend Meowpao needs a good TV and considering a WEGA. Maybe you can help him find a good TV set at Pier. And still have a spare to buy a DVD player and other separates. Then, he will be considering component [separates] instead of Ht in the box or mini compo.

Baka lang isa sa magandang option ito.

levi · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 28, 2001 at 11:00 PM »

Quote

Hi Levi! You seem to be mad with my handle! Daming versions! hahaha!

LOL meowpow and meowpaow. sorry hindi ko napansin yon.

Why not start now? Include your TV in your planning. You can also chk out the TVs at the pier. Its better to start with the TV and the DVD then the receivers and speakers then lastly the subwoofer. Check out other TV brands. You might find better brands for the same price.
At least in your case you can transfer the HT in a Box in a different place but what if I use that budget to get a Good TV and a DVD player na region free and can play RCE?

MeowPao · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 03:57 AM »

Err... where's the 'pier'?
What good (affordable and available) models of DVD players you guys recommend that can play RCE & multiregion? Di ba yung may DTS/Dolby Digital and all that...

Speaking of RCE, I called up Sony and would you believe these guys never heard of RCE? Oh wow!
Now where can I find those JBL speakers?

NAHIHILO NA AKO!

Now this is another reason why I'm considering that HTbox. Fool around with it muna, THEN think about geting separates later, once I finally understand what all these Audio jargon means! hahaha!

I've been putting off the TV bec. I might be moving, and lugging around a 29" flatscreen is certainly no fun! If around that time these newfangled plasma screens become affordable, then 'yan na lang! $$$$$!!!

Ok, just to give me an idea, aside from the Wega, what other TV should I consider (at more or less the same price)? I've been standing around these appliance stores and checking out the TVs that are on, and from what I've seen, the Wega's the sharpest and clearest kasi.

afterglow · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 04:12 AM »

The made in China players should have no problem with RCE discs.....among the branded ones, Pioneer has no problems. Do a search here for the current recommended players.

For the JBLs....where in Manila do you plan to shop?? Let me know so I can find the nearest retailer in the area.

levi · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 05:31 AM »

meowpao,

Chk out the link I posted but to be safe choose pioneer DVD. They play anything you feed them but get it from hifi shops like listening room,Audio den, Image or sight and sound or even ambassador. Appliance store usually sell region 3 only. If you want to delay your TV then just get a receiver like yamaha, Denon, or Harman kardon. Then choose your speaker like B&W, Dynaudio, JBL, or Paradigm. You can find them in the HT shops I recommended.

Regarding the TV check out Toshiba, or Mitsubishi. Dont be fooled by sharp and clear colors. What is important is the natural colors. Just my 1 cent.

Levi

kakabanas · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 08:13 AM »

Quote

meowpao,

Chk out the link I posted but to be safe choose pioneer DVD. They play anything you feed them but get it from hifi shops like listening room,Audio den, Image or sight and sound or even ambassador. Appliance store usually sell region 3 only. If you want to delay your TV then just get a receiver like yamaha, Denon, or Harman kardon. Then choose your speaker like B&W, Dyneaudio, JBL, or Paradigm. You can find them in the HT shops I recommended.

Regarding the TV check out Toshiba, or Mitsubishi. Dont be fooled by sharp and clear colors. What is important is the natural colors. Just my 1 cent.

Levi

Try checking out Onkyo LS-V925 Envision. I think this is the best HT in a box out there for a limited budget. To know more about it, visit these sites :

Onkyo EnvisionTheater LSV-925

http://www.onkyousa.com

MeowPao · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 09:06 AM »

Oo nga pala, I forgot to ask, how's the performance of these separates with regards naman to music CDs?

Levi, about the TV, what's with Toshiba and Mitsubishi that you like about?

afterglow, can you recommend the better ones? Shops I mean, so I can go check them out. Well, probably around Makati and Mandaluyong. I get the impression kasi these shops are so high tech and aside from that, charge me top $$$.

afterglow · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 09:29 AM »

Separates will definitely sound better for music than the mini-components. More powerful amps, better DACs, better transports, better speakers. However, different brands will sound different. For instance, Marantz receivers are acknowledged to be the most musical-sounding compared to the others (Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc.). But these differences will be minute compared to the difference between separates and mini-compos.

I don't know the reason for Levi's preference of Toshibas and Mitsubishis but there is a premium on Sony TVs. If you are not enamored of the Sony brand, then you owe it to yourself to check other brands (Toshiba, Mitsubishi, et al) out. You might be able to get more for your money. Sony also uses a lot of circuitry to enhance NTSC pictures (cable/broadcast) which is bad for DVDs. Toshibas also have these too (Scan Velocity Modulation) but with my Tosh RPTV, it's just a matter of disconnecting a wire.

You can check out JBL stuff at Sights & Sounds at Park Square, Domani at the New World Hotel or Focal in Greenhills. Not sure if they have stock though. You might also want to check out NHT SuperZeroes at Upscale (Mega). They might even have some Missions in your price range....

In the end, let your ears be your guide.....

MeowPao · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 11:29 AM »

Arrrgh! BAD INFLUENCE! All of you! AAArggh!

You guys got me looking at those receivers and now I'm thinking about it na!

So after checking the net about these stuff, I have some questions for you guys:
1. If the receiver has DTS, Dolby 5.1, 3D, etc. etc., do I have to get a DVD player such as the Pioneer DV-636D also with DTS, 5.1, etc. ?
2. What if I want to see that 'graphic equalizer'? Is this a separate equipment?
3. How about music? Can the system above sound better than a mini-component? (This is as important to me pala as to the DVD video.)
4. Are those prices for the speakers PER PIECE? WOW ang mahal pala! I've been dreaming of RAON for too long! Kala ko presyong Daiichi or something... (forgive a newbie ok?) haahaha! Seriously, what's the best budget speakers, is it JBL?

afterglow · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 12:05 PM »

Don't blame us.....you're the one who was asking!!!=P
Seriously though, there are people for whom the mini-compo solution would be ideal......I'm thinking of people for whom convenience is paramount.

To answer your questions:
1. You only need to decode your DD/DTS signal once. So, strictly speaking, you only need a decoder in either your DVD player or your receiver. Almost all current receivers have DD/DTS decoders on board so all you'll need is a DVD player that is DD/DTS compatible. This suits your needs just fine since most receivers have superior decoders over DVD players that people would match with them. How do you know if the DVD player will pass the DD/DTS bitstream?? Check for the DD/DTS logo in front and either a digital coax or optical out jack in the back.

2. I don't really see graphic equalizers being used in HTs nowadays. The only extensive use I know of is using a parametric equalizer to smooth out room-induced low-frequency humps and troughs.

3. Hmmm.... a separate system will DEFINITELY sound better than a mini-compo. Considering your budget, we've been recommending small sub/satellite systems which work fine for HT because they have good imaging which is important because when you're watching a movie, you're more interested in how the sound moves across the soundstage. For music, it would be better to have full-range tower speakers (more expensive)since they can reproduce the frequency spectrum more accurately than the sub/sat systems. One strategy is to get the best sounding mains you can, get a matching center and skimp on the surrounds.

4. The JBL NSP-1 system (PhP20,500) consists of five speakers: two pairs of N-24 satellites (PhP8,000 per pair if purchased separately) and an N-center (PhP6,000 each). All you need to add is a sub for the full 5.1. Local subs start at around PhP8,000. There's a thread about subs which you should check out. Sadly, the exchange rate has increased the price of imported stuff. I find the NSP-1 to be a good bundle though....but if music is THAT important to you, I suggest you consider getting bigger speakers in the N line.

Speakers are the most subjective choice in your HT. I've personally had good experience with JBL which is why I'm recommending it. Others to try out would be PSB, NHT, Mission, etc. Audition all the brands in your price range and let your ears be the judge.

MeowPao · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 12:26 PM »

Yep I asked for it, and you guys had to push it! hahaha!

I've been checking around and I found the ff:

- Pioneer VSX-D810S-G Receiver (without the -G, this would cost at most $400 kuno)
- Pioneer K303C or K302CD Player (these are those 3 CD/DVD changers... I don't like single drive ones; magkano kaya?)
- That JBL NSP1 you reccommended (if this definitely sounds better than mini-compos, then ok na sa akin; P20,500 accdg to you)

Is this complete already? What are your comments? How much would this total kaya?

afterglow · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 12:46 PM »

You will want a subwoofer at some point in time. And don't forget the RCA, digital, speaker and video cables.

Don't know much about Pioneer receivers. I know that you can get entry-level Kenwood or Denon receivers for around PhP20K.

The DV-K302CD retails for PhP19,000. If you want something cheaper, go for a single-disc model. I actually have the DV-K302CD given to me as a gift. It's brand new...the box is opened but it hasn't even been plugged in. I'm selling it if you're interested.

Before you decide on buying anything, I strongly urge you to audition it first (specially speakers). Receivers and speakers sound different and there may be some brands you prefer over others.

MeowPao · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 12:57 PM »

Do you know where I can have those 'auditions'? Do you know of any stores that are ok, both with after-sales service and price?

I'll think about that Pioneer of yours... I still do not know the difference bet that and the 303C model... might have to go to a store and ask.

Was checking out the subwoofer prices, wow! P18000 for a powered JBL? heheh!

More questions,
1.how about WIRES? Are they included in the package?
Speaker wires, Antenna wires, etc. etc.
2. Is the 'power' of the receiver adjustable? Say its rated at 100W, can I switch it lower to like 80W to accomodate certain speakers?
3. If a receiver is at 100W. What will happen if I connect a 150W or 250W speaker?

afterglow · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 29, 2001 at 08:28 PM »

If you want to be looked-after, then you'll have to go to one of the high-end shops like Listening in Style or AVDriver (both in Shang). They have good equipment and good rooms so that you can concentrate on the audition. Unfortunately, baka mamutla ka sa presyo. They don't carry JBL either. Among the shops I mentioned, probably Focal will have the most knowledgable people since the importer of JBL is a part owner of the store. Just don't listen to their JMLabs setup or else the madness will never end.....

There's absolutely no reason for you to buy the same brand of subwoofers as your other speakers. I actually don't like JBL subs which is why I didn't recommend it to you. The decision on this one will be based on your room characteristics and your taste. Some subs go very low, some go very loud, some do neither, very few (expensive) does both. There are local subs that can be had for around PhP8K and these might suit your needs. OTOH you might decide you want Velodyne, SVS or REL subs.....

On your other questions:
1. The only wires worth using that are included are the power cables, composite-video cable (last resort) and the antenna. Assuming that you'll be using a receiver, DVD player and a TV, these are the wires you'll need to purchase:

Component-video(preferred) or S-video (okay) or composite video (avoid but if necessary, just use the one in the box) cable: connects video-out of DVD to TV. The quality of video will depend greatly on this and will be limited by the type of jacks available on your TV. Most DVD players have all three but most TVs do not.

Analog interconnects aka RCA cables: You'll want to use these if your TV has audio-out

Digital cable: can be either Digital Coaxial (75-ohm cable that looks like a single RCA cable) or Digital Optical (TOSLINK). You can use either type depending on the available jacks. Given a choice, I'd go for Digital Coax since it's cheaper.

Speaker cable: to connect the receiver to the speakers. To make it simple, just get 16 or 14 gauge from Raon.

Like audio components, cables come in different price and quality levels. More expensive ones have better shielding and are more durable. You'll have to decide what price/performance ratio works for you.

2. Don't worry about the receiver overpowering the speakers. Most receivers and speaker combinations are compatible. In fact, you should worry more about underpowered receivers which can cause clipping and destroy your speakers. Most speakers can receive more power than they're rated for if the signal is undistorted. However, if you use an underpowered receiver, distortion will come much earlier and this is bad for the speakers.

3. It's an old myth that you need to match the power output of an amp with the power handling capacity of the speakers.

Oks?

nerveblocker · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 30, 2001 at 05:40 AM »

meowpaw- if you're tight on a budget you can audition our HT speaker set. click on this...

http://www.pinoydvd.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.cgi?board=buysell&action=display&num=1006457922&start=15

just send me a text at 09175298004 or PM me if you are interested. We can meet somewhere so you can listen to its sound quality.

Let your ears be your guide!

MeowPao · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 30, 2001 at 08:12 AM »

Guys, now that you got me convinced, I've been roaming around Makati and checking the stuff you mentioned. I think I've decided on the DVD player: Pioneer K302CD.

For the receivers, I still cannot decide between these two:

Pioneer VSD810S-G
http://www.pioneer.com.sg/products/product/homeav/product/rec_vsx-d810s-g.htm

Kenwood KRF-x9050D
http://www.kenwoodaudio.com/separatecomponents/v9050.html

and looking at a third brand : Yamaha RXV-620 or RXV-800.

Can you guys give me a hand?

But here's the tricky part: I've been able to spot this at Audio By Design
Kenwood System 220 for P29,000 ONLY (!!!!???!!!)
http://www.kenwoodaudio.com/hometheatre/dav220.html

Hey, I found this realtively cheap subwoofer that I might get: Kenwood SW305W at P 11,700.00. Ok kaya?
http://www.kenwoodaudio.com/separatecomponents/sw305.html

levi · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 30, 2001 at 12:09 PM »

meowpao,

Im not against sony but with the price of sony you can get other brands also. Its going to be your call, I just want to tell you try other brands also. Regarding your option for receiver, I will choose yamaha. If I were to choose, I will go for Denon 1802 or Harman Kardon AVR4000. I think Image in Harrison Plaza sells both. For speakers try B&W 300 series or 600 series.

Just my 1 cent.

afterglow · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 30, 2001 at 07:46 PM »

I noticed that your choices for receivers are real powerhouses......120 wattsx6 and up!! If you are still sticking to a budget, you might be better served by choosing something with a bit lower wattage, say 85 watts since the real-world difference in SPL will be very minimal. Use the money that you would save for your speakers. You will notice that you will be changing your electronics every few years because of new formats but there will be no reason to change speakers if you are totally satisfied with them. Do take time to check out other receiver manufacturers while you're at it.....Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Harman, etc.

Also, I find that speakers manufactured by electronics people (Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, etc.) are no match to the speakers manufactured by loudspeaker manufacturers. Once again, let your ears be your judge.

MeowPao · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 31, 2001 at 06:18 AM »

afterglow (and everyone),

Acutally, my budget just went up (a little bit!)

Ok, Levi told me to check out Denon, which I did. But do you know of any store that sells Denon? I've tried checking some of them, and they seem to either not have any on stock, or are hard to talk with (this for me reflects their after-sales service among others).

I'm taking this one step at a time, so now I'm up to the recivers.

So far, I'm looking at 3 brands (in order of preference): Yamaha, Kenwood and Denon.

For Yamaha and Denon, I was able to download their MANUALS (in PDF). Nice.

Kenwood is quite vague in describing their systems.

Unless I find better sellers of Denon (which can give me good support and price), I'll probably decide on the Yamaha.

Some questions regarding Receivers(AGAIN!

)
1. There's: Martix 6.1, Pro logic II, DTS-ES, THX, among others. Do I need these features? Are they in wide use? Are the usual (DTS, D.Digital, AC3, 5.1, Pro Logic) enough already?

2. With regards to power, do I look at the Minimum RMS Output Power or the Maximum Power?

3. In the case of my preference, for now, its 65% music and 35% video (I'm not a hard-core audiophile but I do love my music CDs that's why I eyed those Mini-Compos first

). Is this choice for a receiver type ok already for my needs?

4. What if I want to listen to regular 2-channel Stereo (for my CDs)? Is this feature included in the receiver? Does it depend on how I connect the player to the receiver? I'll be using the 3-DVD/CD changer pala.

afterglow · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 31, 2001 at 08:53 AM »

Your budget went up?? Yipee!! Now, it's time to spend it!!
For Denon, check out Electronics Depot in Libis. It's almost opposite the Ford dealership.

On your other questions:
1. There are more titles coming out in the new formats: DTS-ES, THX-EX, DD-EX....which use 6.1 or 7.1 but the vast majority is still for 5.1. Matrix 6.1 creates the 6th channel using the information from the surround channels and thus is not discrete. I've heard DPLII is a huge improvement over DPL which would be nice if you watch a lot of non-DD/DTS stuff including cable and VHS. Once again, these extra formats cost money in the form of upgraded receivers and extra speakers, but they're not too big of an extra investment. Once again, audition to find out if it's worth it.

2. Look at max. power output. BTW, how big is your room??

3. If you're that big into music, do yourself a favor and listen to Marantz receivers....the best for music (IMHO). I've heard that Focal (Greenhills) is/will be carrying them. Or go for a separate stereo-only system, which is what I did (pero maarte lang ako).

4. If you want to listen to 2-ch stereo on your receiver, all you have to do is disable the DSP, leaving only the tone and volume controls. I know that some Denon receivers have 5-channel stereo, if you're into that sort of thing. Since you'll be using your DVD player, you'll probably be connecting through a digital cable which would mean that the digital-analog conversion would be the job of the receiver. This is a good thing because the DACs of your receiver (whatever it might be) will probably be better than that of your DVD player.