Author Topic: Newbie & Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on Receivers/Amplifiers  (Read 190861 times)

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Offline Alfie

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Re:what's a receiver for?
« Reply #30 on: Jun 19, 2002 at 06:01 PM »
In a nutshell, a Receiver....receives signals..signals can come from a tuner, a CD player, a Tape deck, VHS player, and of course a DVD player.
Once it receives a signal, it can either directly amplify the signal into raw Analog or processed Digital sounds, that will be amply sensed by our naturostatic capabilities,once this amplified signals gets interpreted by another piece of equipment which we all know as speakers.
Cool???Or did I confused you more, if so...kindly read on the thread recomended by our fellow member Onedown.

Offline manila

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Re:what's a receiver for?
« Reply #31 on: Jun 19, 2002 at 06:35 PM »

im a newbie
what's an av receiver for?

tnx!


Thea,
   In short, receivers are pre and power amp built into a single chassis and comes with a tuner as well. In layman's terms, tuner is radyo! :) A/V receivers also have built in DTS/DD/PL etc etc decoders and lots of other gizmos so you can watch all your well loved movies in ONE COMPLICATED BOX! :) Hope this doesn't complicate things.  Just my 2 cents..

Manila

Offline levi

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Re:what's a receiver for?
« Reply #32 on: Jun 20, 2002 at 12:37 AM »
Thea,

  Receiver is  where you connect all your sources like CD, DVD, LD, VHS, Turntable etc. Inside the receiver is a built in amplifier that will power your speakers and the receiver is where you choose what source you will use. A receiver has a built in tuner ( radio). Before it is only use for audio, but since hometheater started, manufacturer incorporated video as well. Now, all the features for hometheater are  included like DTS, Dolby Digital , DPL ,etc. I hope I was able to help.

Levi

Offline nerveblocker

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Re:what's a receiver for?
« Reply #33 on: Jun 20, 2002 at 08:20 AM »
An AV Receiver is  the Brain to your Home Theater! ;)

Offline joan2

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this thread is dedicated to solid state amp questions you might have.....
« Last Edit: Oct 15, 2003 at 09:22 PM by joan2 »

Offline Archangel

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1.) Does warming up producing a better sound have some basis in engineering theory? How about burning in?

2.) How much power would an amp rated at 1.5A at 230V consume if left on with the volume dial set to zero?


Offline edboy7

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mga katanungan po :D....wat is a solid state amp?....how does it differ from an intregrated amp?...does it has voluome level? tone?(bass/treble).....
....do all solid state amp have powerful output?
 thanks!!!! ;)
 

Offline Superman

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hi edboy!

solid state amps - use transistors
tube amps - use vacuum tubes (triode, pentode, etc.)
hybrid amps - use both transistors (normally for power amp section) and tubes (for pre-amp section)

hope this helps...thanks!  8)
« Last Edit: Oct 18, 2003 at 10:00 AM by Superman »
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Offline greatbop

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umm Integrated Amp is Pre- amp + amplifier in 'one box.'


Offline GC

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mga katanungan po :D....wat is a solid state amp?....how does it differ from an intregrated amp?...does it has voluome level? tone?(bass/treble).....
....do all solid state amp have powerful output?
 thanks!!!! ;)
 

Yung integrated amp, preamp+amplifier. If your integrated amp is composed of transistors, then solid-state sya.
Tone controls is usually an indication ng pre-amp section.
AFAIK, solid-state amps has a wide range of output, it can go as low as 700mW (RMS) to 1000W (RMS) or more.
Pro Deo et Patria

Offline joan2

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1.) Does warming up producing a better sound have some basis in engineering theory? How about burning in?

2.) How much power would an amp rated at 1.5A at 230V consume if left on with the volume dial set to zero?


1. for the first 4 seconds yes, because it takes a finite amount of time for the electrolytic caps to fully charge!!!after that, its working time, solid state amps doesn't need to warm up really, as they can operate instantaneously unlike tube where the filaments takes about 11 secs to fully warm-up. burning-in is done at the factory to age the components and uncover weak parts (infantile mortality)....
2. a solid state power amp rated at 1.5amp at 230volt will consume very little with zero volume, as little as 5 watts, compared to a dynaco st70 which can consume 100watts at idle....
« Last Edit: Oct 17, 2003 at 07:59 PM by joan2 »

Offline joan2

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Yung integrated amp, preamp+amplifier. If your integrated amp is composed of transistors, then solid-state sya.
Tone controls is usually an indication ng pre-amp section.
AFAIK, solid-state amps has a wide range of output, it can go as low as 700mW (RMS) to 1000W (RMS) or more.

solid state devices are constant voltage sources(Thevenin source) whereas tubes are constant-current devices(Norton source) as far as circuit analysis goes. this is why solid state devices are easly directly coupled to load as they can operate at lower voltages in order to do so, unlike tube wherein you have to use transformers to convert impedances from the high plate resistance to to low impedance speaker loads.

Offline Archangel

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1. for the first 4 seconds yes, because it takes a finite amount of time for the electrolytic caps to fully charge!!!after that, its working time, solid state amps doesn't need to warm up really, as they can operate instantaneously unlike tube where the filaments takes about 11 secs to fully warm-up. burning-in is done at the factory to age the components and uncover weak parts (infantile mortality)....
2. a solid state power amp rated at 1.5amp at 230volt will consume very little with zero volume, as little as 5 watts, compared to a dynaco st70 which can consume 100watts at idle....

Thanks for the info.

Offline gob

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Quote
hi edboy!

solid state amps - use transistors
tube amps - use vacuum tubes (triode, pentode, etc.)
hyrbid amps - use both transistors (normally for power amp section) and tubes (for pre-amp section)

hope this helps...thanks!  

which of the three gives the best superb sound?  pls enlighten me, tnx ;D
:D

Offline joan2

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i am neutral on the this...there are good solid-state designs as there are bad ones, same with tubes...superb sound, is not dependent on the amps alone, remember that the amps are but a third of the amplifying chain, we have the source, and the speakers to consider!!! so the sum of all three, oh yes, the interconnects too as some would have it!!! these make up for superb sound!!!

i must admit i am a ss guy but only because it is cheaper...and with readily available parts....
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2003 at 11:53 AM by joan2 »

Offline joan2

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in order to keep yourself updated as to what's going on, i highly recommend this site:=http://www.diyaudio.com/forums

the more i browse the threads in this forum, the more i realize how little i know!!!! i am still learning!!!!
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2003 at 02:31 PM by joan2 »

Offline slowhand

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About warming up ss amps: I wish I were so lucky. My amps have always benefited from long warm-up times. In fact there was one low-current amp I had that didn't have a power switch, as it was designed to be always on, and sounded best that way. Otherwise it took hours before it sounded right.

As Archangel implies (or I think he does), there must be some overlooked (or missing or underdeveloped)  engineering basis for warming up ss gear.

Offline joan2

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Onkyo, reccomends a 20 minute warm-up time in one of their high powered amps....as to the engineering basis i know of none, except to say that it also takes a finite amount of time for the transistors to heat-up, as we all know heat changes the transistor characteristic, but most well deigned amps have taken this into consideration.....capacitors that are always energized lives a shorter life than one which is occasionally turned off, why? because capacitors have an esr(equivalent series resistance) which conrtibutes internal heat, now this heat  causes the fuilds inside the caps to evaporate as the caps' hermeticity is not that good.....

i guess it would'nt hurt to wait a while for the ss operating points to "stabilze"......
in real life, everyday use, ss amps will heatup and cooldown as a function of the music being loud or soft, unlike again tubes, whose envelopes can reach 250*C and is not affected by how loud you play your music....
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2003 at 02:28 PM by joan2 »

Offline joan2

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i started a new thread at diyaudio to get feedback from all around...and the big guns of audio in the states, please check this out:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21699&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Offline Archangel

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I have the following questions about speaker wire tweaks and if they can damage my ss amp.

1.)Would it be ok to use different lengths of speaker wire in bi-wiring speakers? I am currently using 1 3-meter run each of generic 12ga but have some very good quality 14 ga leftover from a previous experiment but each run is only 2.5m long.

2.) Tweakers sites recommend experimenting with the speaker wire connections, i.e., switching wires in both single run and b-wire setups to see if any improvement in sound results.  Is there any possibility of long -term damage with these experiments?

Offline av_phile

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which of the three gives the best superb sound?  pls enlighten me, tnx ;D

There are audiophiles who have resurrected single-ended directly heated valve or vaccum tube amplifiers as they have fallen in love with the" full-bodied" and "warm"sonics of valve amplification.  These qualities have been accidentally revealed as more endearing in musical reproduction courtesy of more accurate and efficient speakers available today than they were 20-30 years ago.  Tnese new speakers revealed early valve amps to be more listenable than solid state amps from circa 60s and 70s.  

The excellent attributes are centered around the mid-frequencies as having body and presence.  (Forget about the extreme highs and low frequencies which are hampered by the coupling transformers.) Thanks mostly to the even-ordered harmonic distortions that valve amps introduce that are pleasant to the ears and impart better sonic definition to vocals and musical instruments like violins and the piano as well as smoothens trumpets and other wind instruments that have more odd-order harmonics, hence grittiness, in real instruments. (These THDs hover in the 0.5% to 2% range.)  Bear in mind that the original well recorded LP or disc does not contian these THDs.

In addition, valve amplifers exhibit soft clipping that accounts for much of the smooth and unabrasive sounds even at high volume levels.

On the otherhand, solid state amplifiers of today can generate more power than any valve amps and has all the attendant covinience benefits that go with solid state devices.  However, ss devices introduce odd-order harmonic distortions that pile up from one gain stage to another that generally impart harshness to the sonics.  Bear in mind too that ss devices, historcially, were never intended, by design or function, to be sound amplifying devices for hi-fi purposes.  But their eventual enhancements in materials and configuration meant that today, ss amps exhibit virtually inaudible harmonic distortions, whether odd or even.  At THDs of 0.01% at full power of 150 watts RMS, listening at half that volume guarantees inaudible THDs that is the objective of any hi-fi reproducing gear.  Bear in mind that the original source does not contain these THDs.  Hence, any gear that transparently passes these undistorted sginals is the desired gear for hi-fi sound reproduciton purposes.

There are ss devices found in more expensive gears that use MOSFET transistors in the power stages that imparts greater sonic qualities akin to those in valve amps like soft-clipping.  The use of hybird devices enable the use of tubes in the preamp/buffer stages at the same time benefiting from the power gain of ss MOSFET devices used in the power gain stages.  These hybird amps allow the best of both worlds to come to play in one gear.

But for many audiophiles, it's the gear that gives them the most pleasurable listening expoerience that matters, whether it's hi-fi or not, valave or ss.  So it's your ears that will decide. Personally, I prefer hi-fi ss sounds.

« Last Edit: Oct 20, 2003 at 11:42 AM by av_phile »

Offline av_phile

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I have the following questions about speaker wire tweaks and if they can damage my ss amp.

1.)Would it be ok to use different lengths of speaker wire in bi-wiring speakers? I am currently using 1 3-meter run each of generic 12ga but have some very good quality 14 ga leftover from a previous experiment but each run is only 2.5m long.

2.) Tweakers sites recommend experimenting with the speaker wire connections, i.e., switching wires in both single run and b-wire setups to see if any improvement in sound results.  Is there any possibility of long -term damage with these experiments?

You may use smaller gauge wires for the high frequencies in a bi-wiring set-up.  The skin-effect that makes high frequcnies from 15k upwards to travel on the surface of conductors makes thick gauge unnecessary for those frequencies.

I know of no long-term damage that experiments you mentioned would do to speakers as long as certain cautions are observed, like impedance and power matching.  Accidentally shorting speaker wires will do more damage to the amo, if turned on,  than to the speakers.  Sending low frequencies to the tweeters will certanly fry your tweeter coils than sending high frequencies to woofers.  

Offline joan2

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I have the following questions about speaker wire tweaks and if they can damage my ss amp.

1.)Would it be ok to use different lengths of speaker wire in bi-wiring speakers? I am currently using 1 3-meter run each of generic 12ga but have some very good quality 14 ga leftover from a previous experiment but each run is only 2.5m long.

2.) Tweakers sites recommend experimenting with the speaker wire connections, i.e., switching wires in both single run and b-wire setups to see if any improvement in sound results.  Is there any possibility of long -term damage with these experiments?

i do not see any, just be sure to set the volume to zero if you can not turn off the amp if you want to do this lest murphy bite you....you need not use speaker wires any longer than you need...
« Last Edit: Oct 20, 2003 at 01:44 PM by joan2 »

Offline Archangel

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You're saying that different lengths for bi-wirng are OK?  Just to be sure. I'm more wary of O'brien's law:  Murphy was an optimist.  

Offline joan2

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which O'Brien, the physicist or the politician? lol....

Offline joan2

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"But for many audiophiles, it's the gear that gives them the most pleasurable listening experience that matters, whether it's hi-fi or not, valave or ss.  So it's your ears that will decide. Personally, I prefer hi-fi ss sounds."

well said, av-phile, this is how it should be.....


Offline akyatbundok

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mga sir, what does a higher (or lower) damping factor do to the sound?  i tried reading a very lengthy technical explanation, but my short attention span left me at halfway the 20th paragraph.

is this the same as the "softness" switch in some amps?

i have an amp that sounds aggresive on some music material.  when i turn on the "softness" switch, decay seem shorter but tonal balance remains the same, resulting in a smoother sound.  is this an effect of damping factor?  i remember seeing an accuphase amp with low/med/high adjustments on damping factor.

Offline edboy7

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"But for many audiophiles, it's the gear that gives them the most pleasurable listening experience that matters, whether it's hi-fi or not, valave or ss.  So it's your ears that will decide. Personally, I prefer hi-fi ss sounds."

well said, av-phile, this is how it should be.....



ang galing nyo.!!! ;)...so ss amps are next to valve amps?...in terms of sound....BUT....has more power ;D
 tama po ba?

Offline joan2

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edboy7 ,
it's best that we live it at that, let us not get into "ss is better than tube arguments" let us look at it at a wholistic view, it is not just the amps, lets consider also the source and the speakers...

Offline av_phile

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You're saying that different lengths for bi-wirng are OK?  Just to be sure. I'm more wary of O'brien's law:  Murphy was an optimist.  

Just for your peace of mind, I would suggest you make them of equal lengths.  The mathematical differences in resistances are quite minute unless we're talking of lengths in the 20+meters.