Author Topic: surround speaker placement  (Read 4260 times)

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Offline -sniper-

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surround speaker placement
« on: Aug 17, 2012 at 02:13 PM »
good day....

if you are going to mount your surround speakers from the ceiling, what should be your reference point for proper placement? how far down and how far back?

thanks!
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

Offline audiojunkie

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #1 on: Aug 17, 2012 at 02:20 PM »
good day....

if you are going to mount your surround speakers from the ceiling, what should be your reference point for proper placement? how far down and how far back?

thanks!

IMHO, for general reference point should be from floor level to certain height and angle from your sitting position. distances and angle differs from type and model of speakers.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2012 at 02:34 PM by audiojunkie »
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #2 on: Aug 17, 2012 at 02:28 PM »
kumusta na, brader?  :D

my friend will be setting up an HT. kaya lang, hindi enclosed ung ht area nya. hindi nya ma-wall mount ung sa isang side, kaya ang naisip namin i-hang nya from the ceiling ung isa, then wall mounted ung isa.
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #3 on: Aug 17, 2012 at 02:45 PM »
ayos lang brader...

yun lang ata ang solution sa SR placement, kailangan prefabricated steel hanger at secured/bolted sa matibay na structure sa loob ng ceiling. don't fix on ceiling joist  baka mabigat yung speaker at para  maiwasan ang vibration matransfer sa ceiling.

ayaw kong magbigay ng specific distances dahil maraming variables to be considered. marami naman sa net for possible recommendations sa ganyang area.. ;D  
« Last Edit: Aug 22, 2012 at 12:59 AM by audiojunkie »
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Offline odyopayl

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #4 on: Aug 20, 2012 at 08:57 AM »
good day....

if you are going to mount your surround speakers from the ceiling, what should be your reference point for proper placement? how far down and how far back?

thanks!
Surround LR should be at least on the left and right (besides the listening position)
Surround Back LR should be at the back of the listening position
Don't worry about the distance, your AVR processor can adjust everything based on the distance, all you need is set the speaker distance.
Surrounds are just the effects and general ambiance of the movie, i don't much worried about it.
The important is your Front L & R including the Center Speaker......Don't forget about your Sub to complete HT package ;D
By the way, you can customize the brackets depending on your location, as long as they are sturdy that's it!
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #5 on: Aug 21, 2012 at 04:42 PM »
yun lang ata ang solution sa SR placement, kailangan prefabricated steel hanger at secured/bolted sa matibay na structure sa loob ng ceiling. don't fix on ceiling joist  baka mabigat yung speaker at para  maiwasan ang vibration matrasfer sa ceiling.

ayaw kong magbigay ng specific distances dahil maraming variables to be considered. marami naman sa net for possible recommendations sa ganyang area.. ;D 

yep. sabi ko sa kanya, sa biga nya i-mount ung hanger na ipapagawa nya.  :P

Surround LR should be at least on the left and right (besides the listening position)
Surround Back LR should be at the back of the listening position
Don't worry about the distance, your AVR processor can adjust everything based on the distance, all you need is set the speaker distance.
Surrounds are just the effects and general ambiance of the movie, i don't much worried about it.
The important is your Front L & R including the Center Speaker......Don't forget about your Sub to complete HT package ;D
By the way, you can customize the brackets depending on your location, as long as they are sturdy that's it!

thanks, sir!  :)
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #6 on: Aug 21, 2012 at 10:58 PM »
follow-up question....

is it ok to mount the surrounds in a tilting position, pointed towards the listening position? instead of hanging it from the ceiling?
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #7 on: Aug 22, 2012 at 08:09 PM »
follow-up question....

is it ok to mount the surrounds in a tilting position, pointed towards the listening position? instead of hanging it from the ceiling?

Yup bro.. this is ok..
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #8 on: Aug 22, 2012 at 08:23 PM »
follow-up question....

is it ok to mount the surrounds in a tilting position, pointed towards the listening position? instead of hanging it from the ceiling?
literal na ceiling as in facing the floor?
mukang delikado ata to.unless in-wall ang orientation ng speaker.
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #9 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 12:44 AM »
follow-up question....

is it ok to mount the surrounds in a tilting position, pointed towards the listening position? instead of hanging it from the ceiling?

you mean, mount on the wall tilted  or angled? it's no problem to mount that way provided you have secondary harness incase the main support fails.
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #10 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 08:09 AM »
Yup bro.. this is ok..

salamat, brader jason.  :) long time no talk ah.....mukhang busy ka sa mga bagong toys mo.  ;D

literal na ceiling as in facing the floor?
mukang delikado ata to.unless in-wall ang orientation ng speaker.

no, sir. bale ia-attach 'to sa beam, maybe at a 45degree angle, para nakatutok sa listening position.

you mean, mount on the wall tilted  or angled? it's no problem to mount that way provided you have secondary harness incase the main support fails.

exactly, sir. although mounted on the beam ung isa.
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #11 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 09:07 AM »
no, sir. bale ia-attach 'to sa beam, maybe at a 45degree angle, para nakatutok sa listening position.

You keep asking how they should be placed, but you never ask why they should be so placed.

It will be easier to decide on proper placement once you understand the rationale behind the placement suggestions.

For 5.0 or 5.1 systems, the surround speakers should be placed slightly behind and slightly above the listener.  Why?  Because they should be able to produce sounds from the side, back and from above.

To produce sounds from the side, from the rear and from above --- placement should be on the sides, but slightly behind the listener, and slightly above the listener.

Too far behind, and side sounds suffer.  Too far forward, and rear sounds suffer.  At ear level or lower than ear level, and sounds that were intended to radiate above the listener will suffer.  For example, the sound of a helicopter passing overhead will have better directional reproduction if surround speakers are slightly higher than ear level rather than exactly at ear level.

Speaker height should be about 2 to 3 feet higher than the listener's ears.  They should be pointed above the listener's ear level, not toward the listener's ear level.

That's why I don't like surround speaker stands --- because they're not high enough.  I prefer wall-mounted surrounds so that I can get the height I want.



Home Theater Speaker Layout - An Essential Guide
by Alan Lofft — last modified August 25, 2010

... The main left and right surrounds should be to the respective sides of the listening area, above ear level if possible (ideally 2 feet or more) at an angle of 90 to 110 degrees


http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/home-theater-speaker-layout-an-essential-guide
« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2012 at 09:36 AM by barrister »

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #12 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 09:53 AM »
nice to hear from you again, sir barrister...

i guess my query is incomplete. perhaps, my question should go this way -- with the limitation on the the HT area, how can we mount his surrounds, specifically the right surrounds (aside from the traditional mounting spots), and still attain the soundstage we should attain?

speaker stands are also out of the equation, since it is not an option for him. however, considering that the HT area is open, with only the left side having a wall, we find it hard to fix his right surround. wall mounting the left surround is not a problem, since there is a wall on that side. we are having a difficulty with his right surrounds. the nearest place where we can mount it is on the concrete beams of the ceiling. however, if we hang it from there in an identical height with the left surround, we fear that the brace might hang way down. not good, aesthetically. that's why we thought of hanging it in an angled position.
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #13 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM »
nice to hear from you again, sir barrister...

i guess my query is incomplete. perhaps, my question should go this way -- with the limitation on the the HT area, how can we mount his surrounds, specifically the right surrounds (aside from the traditional mounting spots), and still attain the soundstage we should attain?

speaker stands are also out of the equation, since it is not an option for him. however, considering that the HT area is open, with only the left side having a wall, we find it hard to fix his right surround. wall mounting the left surround is not a problem, since there is a wall on that side. we are having a difficulty with his right surrounds. the nearest place where we can mount it is on the concrete beams of the ceiling. however, if we hang it from there in an identical height with the left surround, we fear that the brace might hang way down. not good, aesthetically. that's why we thought of hanging it in an angled position.


Ang hirap talaga bro pag ang problem is room limitation.. As i have same problem.. I just mounted it kung saan pinaka the best and calibrate it from there. So far ok naman... I suggest to just mount it sa nakikita mong best na lugar. We cant follow the surround placement reccomendations kung di  talaga possible.

As long as hindi nasa harap ang surround mo, pwede na...Before, my surround is placed sa wall kung saan kami naka sandal pag nanonood.. I just tilted it a little bit para medyo tumama yung tunog sa akin but basically dun sya naka harap sa screen kasi no option ako... Pwede na din... i still feel the effect pag may eroplanong dumaan sa side, sumabog sa likod, nagsalita sa likod... Pag nag papan ang sound around the place...

Long time no talk bro...I hope mag kita kita ulit tayo... Kahit coffee session man lang ulit..
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Offline barrister

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #14 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 10:50 AM »
nice to hear from you again, sir barrister...

i guess my query is incomplete. perhaps, my question should go this way -- with the limitation on the the HT area, how can we mount his surrounds, specifically the right surrounds (aside from the traditional mounting spots), and still attain the soundstage we should attain?

First, accept that you will not be able to attain the correct soundstange with a room layout like that.  All you can do is approximate the proper soundstage as closely as possible.

That's because wall location is important in producing the proper soundstage.  The left surround properly interacts with left wall and rear wall, but you don't have that on the right surround.  So the left and right surround sounds will never match no matter what you do.  
 

... the nearest place where we can mount it is on the concrete beams of the ceiling. however, if we hang it from there in an identical height with the left surround, we fear that the brace might hang way down. not good, aesthetically. that's why we thought of hanging it in an angled position.

Yes, you can hang it from the ceiling and angle it towards the listening position.  For an aesthetically pleasing look, left and right should look balanced.  So if you have no choice but to hang the right from the concrete beams of the ceiling, then the left should also hang from the concrete beams of the ceiling.  Otherwise, parang mukhang naka-ngiwi ang lalabas diyan ...  :D

What I'm saying is that your decision should be based on the underlying rationale behind the placements.

The surrounds should be on the sides, slightly to the rear, and slightly above.

So if the only option is to hang them from the ceiling joists and angle them downwards, how should they be angled?  Nakatutuok derecho sa listener?  No.  Dapat nakatutok: (a) slightly behind the listener na, (b) slightly above the listener pa.  That way, you're as close to ideal as possible.

Will it produce the ideal sound stage?  No.  The absence of a right wall has already messed up the sound anyway, so additional variations won't matter too much anymore.


... Pwede na din... i still feel the effect pag may eroplanong dumaan sa side, sumabog sa likod, nagsalita sa likod... Pag nag papan ang sound around the place...

OK lang yon.  It's all about compromises.  

But still, dapat may starting point ka pa rin.  Kaya dapat alamin muna kung bakit ganon ang recommended placements.  Pag alam mo na ang rationale ng suggestions nila, may basis ka na para mag decide ng sarili mong placements, lalo na kung hindi talaga puwedeng sundin ang recommendations dahil sa room limitations.

« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2012 at 11:04 AM by barrister »

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #15 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 11:10 AM »
Ang hirap talaga bro pag ang problem is room limitation.. As i have same problem.. I just mounted it kung saan pinaka the best and calibrate it from there. So far ok naman... I suggest to just mount it sa nakikita mong best na lugar. We cant follow the surround placement reccomendations kung di  talaga possible.

As long as hindi nasa harap ang surround mo, pwede na...Before, my surround is placed sa wall kung saan kami naka sandal pag nanonood.. I just tilted it a little bit para medyo tumama yung tunog sa akin but basically dun sya naka harap sa screen kasi no option ako... Pwede na din... i still feel the effect pag may eroplanong dumaan sa side, sumabog sa likod, nagsalita sa likod... Pag nag papan ang sound around the place...

Long time no talk bro...I hope mag kita kita ulit tayo... Kahit coffee session man lang ulit..

oo nga eh. binigyan ako ng sakit ng ulo nung kaibigan ko.  :P we'll take the best option, based on this thread. ayaw din nya kasi ng speaker stands dahil makakasagabal sa area. if he uses stands, sa gitna ng ht area (literally) ang magiging pwesto nung right surrounds nya.  :P

a coffee session is fine with me. sked lang talaga ang nagiging problema.
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #16 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 11:25 AM »
First, accept that you will not be able to attain the correct soundstange with a room layout like that.  All you can do is approximate the proper soundstage as closely as possible.

That's because wall location is important in producing the proper soundstage.  The left surround properly interacts with left wall and rear wall, but you don't have that on the right surround.  So the left and right surround sounds will never match no matter what you do.  
 

very detailed and very helpful, as always.  :)

will it help kung lagyan namin ng block ung brace ng right surrounds? say, if the surround speaker measures 3x5, lagyan namin ng 6x8 na block ung likod nung brace...to mimic a wall.



Yes, you can hang it from the ceiling and angle it towards the listening position.  For an aesthetically pleasing look, left and right should look balanced.  So if you have no choice but to hang the right from the concrete beams of the ceiling, then the left should also hang from the concrete beams of the ceiling.  Otherwise, parang mukhang naka-ngiwi ang lalabas diyan ...  :D

What I'm saying is that your decision should be based on the underlying rationale behind the placements.

The surrounds should be on the sides, slightly to the rear, and slightly above.

So if the only option is to hang them from the ceiling joists and angle them downwards, how should they be angled?  Nakatutuok derecho sa listener?  No.  Dapat nakatutok: (a) slightly behind the listener na, (b) slightly above the listener pa.  That way, you're as close to ideal as possible.

we'll do this, sir.

salamat ng marami, sir barrister!!!
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Offline barrister

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #17 on: Aug 23, 2012 at 12:14 PM »
will it help kung lagyan namin ng block ung brace ng right surrounds? say, if the surround speaker measures 3x5, lagyan namin ng 6x8 na block ung likod nung brace...to mimic a wall.

Good idea.  May block yung right, facing the opposite wall.  Then wall-mount the left at the same height para hindi mukhang kirat :D.  Then angle them both downwards.

Or mount 2 blocks, both facing front, slightly behind the listening position, left and right.  Then mount the speakers and angle them towards each other and downwards.
« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2012 at 12:18 PM by barrister »

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #18 on: Sep 19, 2012 at 09:45 PM »
Gudpm..question lang po..ok lng po lagay sa harap yun surrounds?like polk owm3?or at the back but facing downwards at the top of the listener?...thank you...

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #19 on: Sep 20, 2012 at 03:20 AM »
Gudpm..question lang po..ok lng po lagay sa harap yun surrounds?like polk owm3?or at the back but facing downwards at the top of the listener?...thank you...
front wide front height much better compare sa likod at tilt downward
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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #20 on: Sep 22, 2012 at 09:06 AM »
ahhh...ok po...pangit po ba pag sa back tilt downward?thx

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Re: surround speaker placement
« Reply #21 on: Oct 01, 2012 at 03:26 PM »
front wide front height much better compare sa likod at tilt downward

sir pano po placement yung "front wide front height"? yung surround speakers ba eh dapat itaas ko kesa sa front speakers? right now, hindi ko kasi malagay sa rear yung surrounds eh. thanks.