Topic: Comparisons of Receivers

[rtsy]

Although I auditioned the Yamaha, hindi ako na impress sa dami ng DSP nya, for me its like faking the real sound of the source(DVD, AudioCD & etc.). Parang mga presets lang sya ng madaming equalizers yung DSP.

Yan ang downside kung madaming pwedeng kalikutin sa settings (e.g., equalizers), madaming pwedeng gawing mali!    

But I agree with you, I also find that Yamahas tend to have that "processed," unnatural sound which ironically is the opposite of Yammie's tagline:  "Natural Sound."  I guess it's really a matter of taste.  O baka matagal na akong di naglilinis ng tenga when I heard the Yamaha.  

Kaya ako, even after 6 years, I'm still very happy with my Nakamichi IA-3 integrated stereo amp (which as withtood numerous speaker upgrades from an entry level Tannoy sixes--yung hexagonal yung cabinet--to now the Concertino).  All it has is a Power Switch, an input selector, and a volume knob.  Works wonders!

[Onkyo]

I own an Onkyo 787 for 1 year na...m using B&W speakers S2
all around, di ko lang nagamit yung center surround back channel(6.1 kasi 787) dahil sa room limitations ko na din.I dont really know the viability ng speaker compatibility,for me its more of the application na pinag-gagamitan mo ng audio setup mo.Like me,siempre nandito ko sa saudi, minsan e kelangan videoke ang gamit ng Amps ko,kaya switch ako sa JBL PS speakers ko sa front para mas maganda vocals in stereo + yung Yamaha sw320 subs to add more bass.Pag HT naman ang gamit ko, balik ulit ang B&W ko.

[levi]

Hello Onkyo Welcome to PinoyDVD

[AngryBird]

Previously I had my eye on the Yamaha 596 receiver, but when I had the chance to listen to the Onkyo TS-575X, I'm scrapping my Yamaha idea and I think I'd rather go for the Onkyo (It performed better than the Yamaha on audio CDs).

However, at the back of my mind I hear a voice telling me to think the Denon 1801 through too  

But the Denon is more expensive - about 4k to 5k more.  My ears couldn't tell much difference in the sound performance; the Denon's remote, to me, looks more difficult to use than the Onkyo's.  Plus all speaker channels on the Onkyo are the banana-plug-type-thingies  

I'm working on a pretty tight budget and am interested on your thoughts about this.  In other words, I'm in desperate need of expert opinion  

[robertj]

Go for the onkyo tutal you can't hear the difference when auditioning both receiver mas mura pa ng 5K. Most entry level receivers sounds the same just my opinion.

[AngryBird]

Yes, that does seem to be the case.  I'm just worried that maybe I might have missed a certain critical feature that is absent in the Onkyo but is present in the Denon...?

[dvdfan]

How much is the Onkyo and How much is the Denon?

I would wait for the Denon 1602 with Dolby Pro Logic II, 110w / CH., Cinema EQ, etc.

It also has a nice Digital Output so you can connect a CD recorder or an MD recorder for high quality digital recordings.

Very Neat!

[Rak-Rak]

I used to own an Onkyo TX-828 with a ED-901 Dolby Digital Decoder. Maganda cya sa Home Theater sound pero di maganda ang Stereo music performance niya. Im not saying na ganundin ang mga bagong model ng Onkyo. when I sold my old onkyo, I bought the Denon 3300, since pare pareho yung ibang brand (Onkyo,Harman Kardon, Pioneer at Yamaha) ng Home Theater sound, nagka talo lang sila sa Stereo performance. mahilig din kasi ako sa CD Recordings.  You can see a review of the Denon at Onkyo sa www,audioreview.com  

[rtsy]

The Onkyo TX-DS595 is basically the 575x with more power and DPL II.  Check out this comparison:  http://www.onkyousa.com/model_compare_show.cfm?class=receivers&m=TX-DS595&compmodel=TX-DS575x

When I bought my receiver last year, I listend to practically all the mainstream brands available in Manila for below PhP100k.

The one I liked best was the EAD Theater Master and it's matching Powermaster amp.  But my budget HATED that combination.  

My favorite for HT is Yamaha.  Even just the 595a had tremendous effects steering and good enough power.  I later learned that inside the 595a's processing circuits is the revered DSP-A1.  But I didn't go with any of the YAmies due to stereo performance:  soundstage was flat, presentation was rather brittle.

To my ears, the Denons (2800, 3300, AVC-A1) and the Onkyos (575x through 777) had comparable HT and Stereo performance with the only differences being on sound character:  the Onkyo was warmer and the Denon was more detailed.  I also found the Denon's soundstage to be more obvious (note, I'm not necessarily saying the Denon soundstage presentation is better).  My personal preference between the two is Onkyo since its warmer presentation tend to benefit entry-level speakers typically used with models like the 575x.  My brother-in-law matched it with B&W DM302/CC3 and the system is glorious!  We auditioned the Onkyos with PSB Alpha and Acoustic Energy and the results were great, too.

I guess between the Denon and Onkyo, the choice would depend on your choice of speakers.

I also liked the Rotel RSX-975 (I'm not usre of the model anymore) but held back due to reliability issues raised on some magazines and on-line forums.

My money went to the NAD T760.  Soundstage had less width than Denon but had more accurate placement.  The NAD has the Onkyo's warmth (even more) and better real world power.  The tuner section on the NAD is a decent bonus.  Some people hate the minimalist features (only surround modes are DD, DTS, stereo, and proprietary EARS) but that's exactly what I like!  

[AngryBird]

I've already come to the decision of getting the 575x... My problem now is the speakers.

It's true that if you're going for HT, you'd better have some money.  My budget for speakers is 25,000.  That's for all five of them.  I've heard the B&Ws - they sound magnificent to my ears but not to my pocket  :-/  It seems that for the models I like, my budget is just enough for the surounds and center.  What I'm hoping for is a set of 5 just to get the ball rolling...

I've looked around and have very few alternatives... Wharfedale, Yamaha, JBL, Denon... Could you guys give me any recommendations?  I'm looking to narrow down my choices  

[rtsy]

My budget for speakers is 25,000.
That's for all five of them.

I have 8 letters for you, Angrybird, PSB ALPHA.  Head on over to Upscale Audio to hear this.  Look for Au, Nani or Den at Park Square and tell them Russell referred you.

The Alpha A/V I got for my brother-in-law and officemate's dad went for something like 8k.  So get 2 pairs of that and the Alpha Center and you've got a great match to your 575x.

You may also want to give Yupangco a call.  They distribute Tannoy here.  An officemate bought the M1 and is very happy with it.  Thing is, I've seen little of these little rockers in the malls.

You may have some luck with entry-level Paradigms over at Audio Den.

I'm not sure if DCM has been bringing in Mission's 700-series.

[AngryBird]

Ok... Thanks for the advice!

[dvdfan]

Since you are out to buy a receiver, why dont you buy the Denon 1602 with DPL-II. 110w / ch. and with a digital output for digital recordings.

The Onkyo I believe do not have the DPL-II, has 85w of power and do not have digital output. You might regret buying a receiver without DPL-II and you might end up buying another one which makes your investment more expensive.

FYI, DPL-II can simulate 5.1 separations from any stereo recordings like CD, VHS, etc... I am hearing a lot of good stuff with this format.

your 25k budget may be a tough price to match. Speakers I see in this range are the following:
JBL NSC series 17K
JBL 21K (Forgot the model)
Denon 16K (2 Towers for Front, Small speakers for Rear/Center)
Yamaha's
Energy Take 5 27K
Mirage AVS-5pc. 27K

The rest maybe you can check RTSY's advice.

Hope this helps...

[rtsy]

DVDFan, is the Denon you mentioned available here?  Widescreen Review had good words for Fosgate's DPL-II.  It'd be interesting to listen to that.

For stereo, straight without any processing is how I've always preferred my music.  I tried playing around with the "Hall," "Jazz," etc. settings but I've always gone back to plain stereo.  Among all the procesing for 2-channel I've heard, the one I stayed on for thel ongest time is NAD's proprietary EARS.  I'm back to plain stereo now though.

Just a commend on the Take5.  Those are amazing little speakers for the money but only for HT.  Music suffers traditional shortcomings of sub-sat systems--hole in the lower midband.

[butch]

angrybird, onkyo, denon & yamaha are all good brands.  it really boils down to budget & taste.  since you're working on a certain budget, you may want to list down the minimum specs of the AVR acceptable to you & go for it.  it is best that you audition the AVR with the speakers you're thinking of buying.  or you can use all your budget to buy good main speakers first & then buy your subs, center & surrounds later. or you can even buy a really good AVR now & worry about the speakers later. just my 2 cents worth, it's better to buy something good & build from there rather have it all right away & be sorry later.

[dvdfan]

I agree with BUTCH. buy something that you will be happy with and you think that you can keep for the next 5 years. If you buy something now because of its price and you are not too happy with the performance. You will one day get rid of it and buy something you'll love. My preference is that Denon has much greater reviews and if you can spend more on the AVR you'll never regret it in the end.

My suggestion is to audition the Dolby 1602 which is expected to be in the local shops by the 2nd week of august.
DPL-II is something to watch out.

RTSY, I agree with the hole on the SUB / SAT system. but let us say that it is not just for the TAKE 5. All small speakers will have this kind of problem because the low frequency of the satellite system can not crossover coherently with the Sub woofer. This is the problem but for some people, due to budget constraints, this is okay.

I have seen and heard Mirage OM series and they are something worth listening to.

[Rak-Rak]

I also agree with butch.  ganoon ang ginawa ko noong nagsisimula palang ako sa HT noong 96. ang naging sequence ng pagbiliko:
1. Onkyo AVR and Main Speaker na medyo kayang sumisid hangang 40Hz range, Polk RT7 (Mainam ang Stereo Performance niya)
2. Surround
3. Center
4. Sub, medyo mabigat!
inabot ako ng halos 1 year bago ko nakompleto lahat.
Now 5 years later buhay pa lahat ng speakers pera lang sa AVR, DENON na ako ngayon.
Yung Main speaker ko ang talagang neresearch kong maigi at katakot takot na mgazine ang biniliko para sa reviews wala pa kasi akong internet noong mga panahong iyon.  Para akong sirang plaka na adition ng adition ng mga speakers bago ko naka decide sa Polk.
nung wala pa akong sub, Yung main speakers ko ang nagproproduce ng low freq habang wala pa akong sub.
Take note, noong binuo ko itong system ko kalalabas pa lang ng Dolby Digital kaya kinosidera ko ito sa pagpili ng Speaker.
Kung mag decide ka na mag Main Speaker muna at mag audition ng iba-ibang brand, pumili ka ng mga test disc para iisa ang source mo para makita mo ang difference at Character ng iba't ibang brand.
Magandang pang test ay yung kay Rebecca Pidgeon na "Raven" Spanish Eyes na cut.
Shiana Twaine "Your Still the One"
Wag ka nga lang mainip, masarap ding unti-unitng na bubuo itong mga speakers.
Uulitin kolang ang sabi ni Butch "it's better to buy something good & build from there rather have it all right away & be sorry later".

[AngryBird]

Hmm... Napaisip ako sa mga sagot niyo a.

You're right, Rak-rak.  Nakaka-tempt ngang magmadali.  Ang tagal ko na rin kasing gustong magkaroon ng sarili sa bahay kaya excited na akong bumuo.

I think I will be waiting for the Denon 1602, just as dvdfan suggested.  Baka panalo pala yun e palalampasin ko pa.  Considering my budget and my options, I think I'll go for a decent A/V receiver and then get a pair of kick-ass floor-standing main speakers first.  Ihahabol ko na lang yung surrounds at centers.  Time to go back to the stores and test some more  

[rtsy]

--> Considering my budget and my options,
--> I think I'll go for a decent A/V receiver
--> and then get a pair of kick-ass floor-standing

Good choice on going with entry-level electronics and focusing on speakers.  Electronics change quite fast (dati DPL lang, then DD, then DTS, then DD-EX/DTS-ES, later on may SACD at DVD-A pa.  If you must spend on electronics, do it on the amp section.  The pre/pro section is like buying a PC--kick-ass today, pang-kalso ng kotse a year or two from now.  

Just a note oin speakers, floorstanders are not necessarily better than standmounts.  Listen to the bass of a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42/52 and a pair of Mission 773's to see my point.  Despite the 42/52 being standmounts, the bass has far more meat than the 773.  I'm not saying the 773 is bad, just different.  What will sound better to you will depend on your ears, your equipment, and your room.

I personally prefer using good-range standmounts (easier to position) and a deep, tight sub (playing no higher than 50Hz).  But that's just me.  If anyone would send me a B&W DM603S2 or a Mission 773 or a Tannoy R3, I wouldn't mind.  I'll just much prefer a Sonus Faber Grand Piano.  

[vacuumtubes]

:Dhi angrybird,
i'm not against doon sa mga nababasa natin minsan na this brand is highly rated and mga 5-stars pa yan. the most important thing is that "USE YOUR EARS" is the best principle kasi minsan sa mga showroom ang idedemo sa iyo ay depende din sa compatibility ng mga speakers na nakainstall baka pagnagsettle ka sa ganitong brand of receiver ay hindi pala bagay sa setup na gusto mo sa ganito namang brand ng speakers at isa pa yung mga ginagamit na cables ay may bearing din kaya yung mga denon, onkyo, and yamaha ay may mga kanya-kanyang binabagayang speaker brands yan. yung mga nababasa naman nating mga ratings ay to give us only an idea/guide and new models too. kasi sa dami ng napupuntahan ko ding mga tindahan na nagsesetup ay maeexperience mo kung ano ang mga magandang combinations from player up to the speakers. and i'm very particular sa audio secondary na lang ang video. KASI THE SOUND WILL GIVE LIFE AND REALITY TO THE MOVIE! do you agree with me? kaya kung compatible ang mga setup mo ay definitely "YOU BRING LIFE TO MUSIC".

[allenars]

Hi there!

medyo nakikita ko na its either denon o onkyo ang pinipili nyo pero how about the new models ng yamaha like RX-1200, RX-V2200 meron na ba sa pinas?

yun bang RX-V1000 or RX-V800 oks ba ?

Pa advise naman!

[blued]

       how much this Denon 1602? nabenta ko na yung receiver ko at hanngang ngayon wala pa akong pamalit, hirap kasing pabigla-bigla ng bili, baka magsisi bandang huli.
     
       una Onkyo 494 ang gusto ko, pero ngayon parang pumapalit na itong Denon 1602. Apartment ang bahay ko, player ko ay DVD,VHS,VCD and multitrack recorder (use as tape deck), that's why i need to have a PL2. Sa tingin nyo ok ba ang PL2, hindi ba nagle-less ang power and warm sound, baka mas maganda pa rin ang tunog ng stereo.

        Lumalamang sa akin ang Denon 1602 ngayon, kaso ano itong sinasabing issue sa remote?  
 
Happy New Year!
 BLUED

[MeowPao]

You can send a Private Message to The Electronics Depot Man...

http://www.pinoydvd.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.cgi?board=&action=viewprofile&username=electronics%2Ddepot

He gave me a nice quote on the model (Denon 1602) you are looking for.

[Alfie]

       how much this Denon 1602? nabenta ko na yung receiver ko at hanngang ngayon wala pa akong pamalit, hirap kasing pabigla-bigla ng bili, baka magsisi bandang huli.
     
       una Onkyo 494 ang gusto ko, pero ngayon parang pumapalit na itong Denon 1602. Apartment ang bahay ko, player ko ay DVD,VHS,VCD and multitrack recorder (use as tape deck), that's why i need to have a PL2. Sa tingin nyo ok ba ang PL2, hindi ba nagle-less ang power and warm sound, baka mas maganda pa rin ang tunog ng stereo.

        Lumalamang sa akin ang Denon 1602 ngayon, kaso ano itong sinasabing issue sa remote?  
 
Happy New Year!
 BLUED

Blued Denon 1602 now goes for <_>Php 21,000 (cheapest it went was Php18,990.00), It is available at the Image  Video&Electronics in Harrison Plaza.
There's really no problem with the remote, just a matter of taste. If you find the price a bit high, check-out the Kenwood, it also has DPL2, and is a little bit cheaper, I believe there's a thread that discusses this amp.
Happy hunting.

[Sen.Almondski]

Somebody here have tested and experienced the performance
of Onkyo tx-ds595? What do you think of this unit compares to denon 1602 with regards to music audio and HT?

[blued]

Thanks Moewpow, already sent him a mail.

   thanks sa mga reply, so I will use my ears as a measuring tool para malaman talaga kung ano ang bagay sa set-up ko at ang gusto ko! hindi ko kailan masyado ng power kaya ok na ang Onkyo 494 or Denon 1602,kailangan ma-test ko na ang dalawang ito sa mga listening room. Unahin ko siguro kay Nannie sa Upscale mas malapit.

    sa mga may contact dyan, may mga darating pa bang bagong modelo dyan at pagbaba ng presyo sa mga a/v receiver?

[MeowPao]

Kelan ka mag-test ng setup?

Pwede ba akong sumama?  

I am also looking for a Receiver. Am currently looking at the Denon 1802, Onkyo TXD595, and Onkyo TXD696. I wanted that Yamaha 1200, but the price is waay over, and I'll spend it na lang sa speakers (as was advised by the good people here at pinoydvd)...

I'm still new at this 'separates' thingy kasi...  

[Sen.Almondski]

 thanks sa mga reply, so I will use my ears as a measuring tool para malaman talaga kung ano ang bagay sa set-up ko at ang gusto ko! hindi ko kailan masyado ng power kaya ok na ang Onkyo 494 or Denon 1602,kailangan ma-test ko na ang dalawang ito sa mga listening room. Unahin ko siguro kay Nannie sa Upscale mas malapit.

    sa mga may contact dyan, may mga darating pa bang bagong modelo dyan at pagbaba ng presyo sa mga a/v receiver?

hi meowpao & blued

Pls share and advise the output of your testing and experience of your mentioned av receivers, it seems that we are all on hunting for upgrades. I have 3 final choices after long review from pinoydvd & audioreview ( appreciate them )  the onkyo 494, 595 and the denon 1602, thanks!

[MeowPao]

almondski and buled!

hahaha! Now there's three of us. We should have something like a 'Pinoy DVD buyers' EB'!  


You know guys, why don't we buy these machines from say the
same dealer (even if it does not have to be the same brand/model)? I think we can get a BIGGER DISCOUNT if we do it this way! Parang volume order... What say you?



Actually, I'm on the lookout for a new HT system. I never had any, since I've been putting it off until get really sick of my 8 year old CD mini-compo.

I've been checking around, and guess what? Wala daw stock ang Onkyo 595, but may 696. My worry with the Denons are (or so I've read) is that it needs PAL for its onscreen menu, eh my tv is only NTSC.

So far, my choices, IN ORDER, are the Yamaha 1200, Onkyo 595, Onkyo 696, and Denon 1802.

ElectroDepot has a good deal with the Denons (and I hope they sweeten it further!)
I've asked Listening Room in Mega about the Onkyos, and I haven't asked for a discount yet, but they do have that Yamaha! Yum yum! Ang mahal lang nga!

[gaol]

My worry with the Denons are (or so I've read) is that it needs PAL for its onscreen menu, eh my tv is only NTSC.

So far, my choices, IN ORDER, are the Yamaha 1200, Onkyo 595, Onkyo 696, and Denon 1802.

Hmm, I don't think the Denon 1802 has an onscreen menu (OSD); but the menu appears on its built-in display. The Denon 2800 series and higher have OSDs but I believe (I may be wrong) they work with NTSC TVs.

As for Onkyos, DCM Audio has several receivers available.

GAOL