Topic: Windows 8

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It's really just how the software sees it, and that is because of the bulldozer/piledriver architecture. The same thing is true for FX processors. Windows 8 is supposedly beneficial for these processors because it is aware of the design and schedules threads better because of this.

Here's a screen cap from an FX:


There might be a patch/update that would make this show differently, but Windows would still handle scheduling the same way because it generally works better this way. Windows 7 originally handled each Bulldozer module as 2 cores, and that resulted to diminished performance. Later scheduling updates allowed Windows 7 to "recognize" the design by allocating to fewer modules and maximum logical cores per module for turbo boost advantages, and spreading to multiple modules and minimum logical cores per module for parallel performance. Windows 8 goes a little further with some more scheduler optimizations. In the real world, the performance improvement has been quite small however (lack of thorough optimization from both the OS and current applications) -- the original FX patches improved Windows 7 performance by about 3%, whilst Windows 8 is about 2% faster on top of that.



I can discuss it in detail if you want to, but the bottom line is that by seeing your APU as a 4-thread 2-core processor, Windows can split loads between the modules better (instead of taxing one side and under-utilizing the other) if you need to, and put all the load on a single module if turbo frequency or improved power consumption/thermals is desired.

Bat sa windows 7 nakikita niya 4 core and other software? Sa windows 7 naka automatic na yung sa ultra motion ng splash pro pag install so meaning 4 cores siya pero sa windows 8 hindi kasi nakikita ng 8 is 2 cores. I don't believe na 2 core lang ang AMD A10. Sa CPU z and Asus 4 cores.   

Naka default yung windows 7 no patch installed at all fresh install.







The new with trinity is up to 4 core driver.

[Stagea]

Bat sa windows 7 nakikita niya 4 core and other software? Sa windows 7 naka automatic na yung sa ultra motion ng splash pro pag install so meaning 4 cores siya pero sa windows 8 hindi kasi nakikita ng 8 is 2 cores. I don't believe na 2 core lang ang AMD A10. Sa CPU z and Asus 4 cores.   

I don't care how you count cores, I'm just telling you how it works and the reason why Windows 8 sees it as 2 cores. It's a part of the optimization that Microsoft implemented to efficiently use the 2 modules that you have in your APU (whether you count them as 2 or 4 cores). It is possible that they'd patch this cosmetically in the future, but it does not change how the OS allocates threads.

At the moment, Windows 8 reports core count based on how it operates (and it operates with each Bulldozer/Piledriver module as 1 core capable of handling 2 simultaneous threads as a performance optimization). CPU-Z (and your ASUS utility) display 4 cores as this aligns with how the product is sold -- these applications do not do the work of the operating system.

It just happens that Windows 8's core reporting interferes with Splash Pro's feature operation in this case. It is a manifestation of the optimization that they did, as Splash Pro is dependent on what it perceives as core count. A patch on either software (Windows 8 or Splash Pro) could re-enable Motion2 Ultra on dual-module bulldozer/piledriver designs if they're interested in doing so.

If you feel that this is a bug, you can try refreshing Windows 8's core detection by clicking and unclicking the "Number of Processors" checkbox under MSConfig's BOOT Advanced Options, and see if that works. Of course as you mentioned, you can still go back to Windows 7.

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I don't care how you count cores, I'm just telling you how it works and the reason why Windows 8 sees it as 2 cores. It's a part of the optimization that Microsoft implemented to efficiently use the 2 modules that you have in your APU (whether you count them as 2 or 4 cores). It is possible that they'd patch this cosmetically in the future, but it does not change how the OS allocates threads.

At the moment, Windows 8 reports core count based on how it operates (and it operates with each Bulldozer/Piledriver module as 1 core capable of handling 2 simultaneous threads as a performance optimization). CPU-Z (and your ASUS utility) display 4 cores as this aligns with how the product is sold -- these applications do not do the work of the operating system.

It just happens that Windows 8's core reporting interferes with Splash Pro's feature operation in this case. It is a manifestation of the optimization that they did, as Splash Pro is dependent on what it perceives as core count. A patch on either software (Windows 8 or Splash Pro) could re-enable Motion2 Ultra on dual-module bulldozer/piledriver designs if they're interested in doing so.

Yah i get you but the fact that windows 7 detect the 4 cores without any patch as i said i install fresh and no patch update. When i install the splash pro auto enable ang ultra motion not like windows 8 na di enabled yung ultra motion. SO for now ill stick with windows 7. I don't know how microsoft implemented the windows 8 with AMD driver. 

[Stagea]

Yah i get you but the fact that windows 7 detect the 4 cores without any patch as i said i install fresh and no patch update. When i install the splash pro auto enable ang ultra motion not like windows 8 na di enabled yung ultra motion. SO for now ill stick with windows 7. I don't know how microsoft implemented the windows 8 with AMD driver. 

If you feel that this is a misdetection, you can try refreshing Windows 8's core detection by clicking the "Number of Processors" checkbox under MSConfig's BOOT Advanced Options and selecting the maximum count (if you don't see 4, unclick then reboot to refresh), and see if that works. If it still shows the same, it just tells you that it's really how it works.

If you do go back to Windows 7, watch out for updates that may have the same effect. Here's one:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

Windows 7 without updates treat each module as 2 cores, as it is unaware of its design. This is what likely allowed your Splash Pro to see 4 physical cores. Later Windows 7 scheduler updates may cause it to see your APU the way Windows 8 does.

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If you feel that this is a misdetection, you can try refreshing Windows 8's core detection by clicking the "Number of Processors" checkbox under MSConfig's BOOT Advanced Options and selecting the maximum count (if you don't see 4, unclick then reboot to refresh), and see if that works. If it still shows the same, it just tells you that it's really how it works.

If you do go back to Windows 7, watch out for updates that may have the same effect. Here's one:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

I check the link but trinity is not included. I also notice on windows 7 it's faster on multi tasking than on windows 8 maybe because the cpu detection issue i observe. 

An update is available for computers that have an AMD FX, AMD Opteron 4200, AMD Opteron 6200, or AMD Bulldozer series processor installed and that are running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2

The Hot Fix is to disable the core parking issue on the core i believe the core parking disable the core itself.

This article introduces an update for computers that are running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2 and that have a processor from one of the following series installed:
AMD FX
AMD Opteron 4200/4300
AMD Opteron 6200/6300
AMD Opteron Bulldozer
Currently, the CPU scheduling techniques that are used by Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 are not optimized for the AMD Bulldozer module architecture. This architecture is found on AMD FX series, AMD Opteron 4200/4300 Series, and AMD Opteron 6200/6300 Series processors. Therefore, multithreaded workloads may not be optimally distributed on computers that have one of these processors installed in a lightly-threaded environment. This may result in decreased system performance for some applications.

Important The power management policy for processor core parking on your computer may prevent this update from producing the desired performance increase. To disable core parking, install the hotfix that is described in Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article 2646060

Hotfix information

A supported hotfix is available from Microsoft. However, this hotfix is intended to correct only the problem that is described in this article. Apply this hotfix only to systems that are experiencing the problem described in this article. This hotfix might receive additional testing. Therefore, if you are not severely affected by this problem, we recommend that you wait for the next software update that contains this hotfix.

If the hotfix is available for download, there is a "Hotfix download available" section at the top of this Knowledge Base article. If this section does not appear, contact Microsoft Customer Service and Support to obtain the hotfix.

Note If additional issues occur or if any troubleshooting is required, you might have to create a separate service request. The usual support costs will apply to additional support questions and issues that do not qualify for this specific hotfix. For a complete list of Microsoft Customer Service and Support telephone numbers or to create a separate service request, visit the following Microsoft website:
http://support.microsoft.com/contactus/?ws=supportNote The "Hotfix download available" form displays the languages for which the hotfix is available. If you do not see your language, it is because a hotfix is not available for that language.

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Here is the comparison of Intel D510 with 2 Cores and 4 logical cores with AMD A10-5700 4 cores which is quadcore using windows enterprise.

Intel D510.




AMD A10-5700





If the AMD is not a quadcore and it only has 4 logical core the two core on the screenshot of the AMD should be on park mode. This why i said that windows 8 is not detecting the two more core on my AMD A10.

[Stagea]

If the AMD is not a quadcore and it only has 4 logical core the two core on the screenshot of the AMD should be on park mode. This why i said that windows 8 is not detecting the two more core on my AMD A10.

Parking happens to logical cores (which may or may not translate to an actual physical core) that do not get sufficient load. It has more to do with how Windows assigns tasks to logical cores than the actual hardware behind each logical core. You can disable parking if you desire -- this was actually one of the first performance patches for Bulldozer/Piledriver since Windows 7 was poorly scheduling tasks for this architecture (parking an idle logical core that shares a module with an active logical core results in performance degradation for these designs).

Optimized scheduling for Bulldozer/Piledriver vs. optimized scheduling for Intel multicore designs with HT is very different, so there is an advantage of getting this right.

For Bulldozer/Piledriver, you normally want to use all the logical cores per module first to minimize the need for inter-module communication (quite slow as it goes through the uncore)... so one module is left idle (which can result in parking) until the computational load increases. The decrease in performance from sharing components is largely compensated by the reduced access latency.

Most recent Intels incorporate a fast communication path between cores. This in addition to Intel not putting in additional execution paths with HT, means that utilizing only one logical core per physical core (and parking the other logical core per physical core) makes sense during partial loads.

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Parking happens to logical cores (which may or may not translate to an actual physical core) that do not get sufficient load. It has more to do with how Windows assigns tasks to logical cores than the actual hardware behind each logical core. You can disable parking if you desire -- this was actually one of the first performance patches for Bulldozer/Piledriver since Windows 7 was poorly scheduling tasks for this architecture (parking an idle logical core that shares a module with an active logical core results in performance degradation for these designs).

Optimized scheduling for Bulldozer/Piledriver vs. optimized scheduling for Intel multicore designs with HT is very different, so there is an advantage of getting this right.

For Bulldozer/Piledriver, you normally want to use all the logical cores per module first to minimize the need for inter-module communication (quite slow as it goes through the uncore)... so one module is left idle (which can result in parking) until the computational load increases. The decrease in performance from sharing components is largely compensated by the reduced access latency.

Most recent Intels incorporate a fast communication path between cores. This in addition to Intel not putting in additional execution paths with HT, means that utilizing only one logical core per physical core (and parking the other logical core per physical core) makes sense during partial loads.

Pero yung D510 park mode siya forever which make the intel D510 2 cores. Kahit mag multi task ka wala pa din naka park mode lang siya.

Saka yung ultra motion ng splash pro pag naka windows 7 ako di naman nag wawarning na optimize lang isya pag quadcore kasi kita ng windows 7 na quadcore ang A10 ko. Saka auto enable na yung ultra motion after ko masetup yung splash pro which means quad core talaga yung A10. 

[Stagea]

Pero yung D510 park mode siya forever which make the intel D510 2 cores. Kahit mag multi task ka wala pa din naka park mode lang siya.

As with anything, you can disable parking if you want to. Windows 7 is aware of Hyperthreading, so it parks one logical core per physical core to spread the load among the physical cores (and minimize thread contention). Without patches/updates, it's unaware of the Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture and treats each logical core (which translates to an integer core + shared resources) as a separate physical core.

Saka yung ultra motion ng splash pro pag naka windows 7 ako di naman nag wawarning na optimize lang isya pag quadcore kasi kita ng windows 7 na quadcore ang A10 ko. Saka auto enable na yung ultra motion after ko masetup yung splash pro which means quad core talaga yung A10. 

Nobody is asking you to change how you view things, but the reasoning that you're using can also work the other way. Since it does not work under Windows 8, your logic can also say that it's not a quad core processor.

This is purely a software detection issue, as older variants of Splash Pro enables its features depending on what it assumes as core count. Motion2 Ultra functionality no longer requires that Splash Pro see a "quad core" with versions 1.11 to 1.13, as you can enable it with any processor (modern processors with less than 4 cores can easily handle the workload). It does default to off with what appears as less than 4 cores, however.

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As with anything, you can disable parking if you want to. Windows 7 is aware of Hyperthreading, so it parks one logical core per physical core to spread the load among the physical cores (and minimize thread contention). Without patches/updates, it's unaware of the Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture and treats each logical core (which translates to an integer core + shared resources) as a separate physical core.

Nobody is asking you to change how you view things, but the reasoning that you're using can also work the other way. Since it does not work under Windows 8, your logic can also say that it's not a quad core processor.

This is purely a software detection issue, as older variants of Splash Pro enables its features depending on what it assumes as core count. Motion2 Ultra functionality no longer requires that Splash Pro see a "quad core" with versions 1.11 to 1.13, as you can enable it with any processor (modern processors with less than 4 cores can easily handle the workload). It does default to off with what appears as less than 4 cores, however.

Yah you can enabled it even on the old version but there is a warning if your processor is not a qudcore as detected by the OS but on my windows 7 there is no warning as the quad core is detected but not by the windows 8. I have the latest G620 but i can't handle the ultra motion as i tested even other at TPC tested the splash pro ulra motion with 2 core processor and they see stuttering. As i said upon installation of splash pro using windows 7 the ultra motion is enable automaticaly but with windows 8 its not enabled. I don't know how you see what im explaning but as far as i know the new windows 8 does not detect the 4 cores of the A10 but other software and windows 7 detect it. The patch you are saying is not for the core of the pile driver as said it for other model not for trinity.

[Stagea]

Yah you can enabled it even on the old version but there is a warning if your processor is not a qudcore as detected by the OS but on my windows 7 there is no warning as the quad core is detected but not by the windows 8. I have the latest G620 but i can't handle the ultra motion as i tested even other at TPC tested the splash pro ulra motion with 2 core processor and they see stuttering. As i said upon installation of splash pro using windows 7 the ultra motion is enable automaticaly but with windows 8 its not enabled. I don't know how you see what im explaning but as far as i know the new windows 8 does not detect the 4 cores of the A10 but other software and windows 7 detect it. The patch you are saying is not for the core of the pile driver as said it for other model not for trinity.

"For our tests of the Socket AM3+ platform we installed KB2645594 and KB2646060 OS patches, which adapt the scheduler operation for Bulldozer AND Piledriver microarchitectures."
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fx-8350_4.html

KB2645594 makes Windows 7 treat a Bulldozer or a Piledriver module as a single core that's capable of handling 2 threads.

Motion2 Ultra works just fine in my i5 portable (it's the only dual core I have access to at the moment). Turning off PureVideo does increase utilization significantly so a slower dual core may not suffice, but I suppose most people with limited hardware would run with Hardware Acceleration enabled anyway. My older i7-920 easily handles no hardware acceleration with one core disabled (so 3 cores active); I'm sure it can manage with just 2 cores if overclocked.

Update: I tested it with an i7-2700K and it handles the load with 2 cores disabled.

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I believe this is the KB on your earlier post as i said the KB is not intended for tinity but for other AMD model. I also read that article and it did not mention any piledriver.

An update is available for computers that have an AMD FX, AMD Opteron 4200, AMD Opteron 6200, or AMD Bulldozer series processor installed and that are running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2
This article introduces an update for computers that are running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2 and that have a processor from one of the following series installed:
AMD FX
AMD Opteron 4200/4300
AMD Opteron 6200/6300
AMD Opteron Bulldozer

Currently, the CPU scheduling techniques that are used by Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 are not optimized for the AMD Bulldozer module architecture. This architecture is found on AMD FX series, AMD Opteron 4200/4300 Series, and AMD Opteron 6200/6300 Series processors. Therefore, multithreaded workloads may not be optimally distributed on computers that have one of these processors installed in a lightly-threaded environment. This may result in decreased system performance for some applications.

Important The power management policy for processor core parking on your computer may prevent this update from producing the desired performance increase. To disable core parking, install the hotfix that is described in Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) article 2646060.

Hotfix information

A supported hotfix is available from Microsoft. However, this hotfix is intended to correct only the problem that is described in this article. Apply this hotfix only to systems that are experiencing the problem described in this article. This hotfix might receive additional testing. Therefore, if you are not severely affected by this problem, we recommend that you wait for the next software update that contains this hotfix.

If the hotfix is available for download, there is a "Hotfix download available" section at the top of this Knowledge Base article. If this section does not appear, contact Microsoft Customer Service and Support to obtain the hotfix.

Note If additional issues occur or if any troubleshooting is required, you might have to create a separate service request. The usual support costs will apply to additional support questions and issues that do not qualify for this specific hotfix. For a complete list of Microsoft Customer Service and Support telephone numbers or to create a separate service request, visit the following Microsoft website:
http://support.microsoft.com/contactus/?ws=supportNote The "Hotfix download available" form displays the languages for which the hotfix is available. If you do not see your language, it is because a hotfix is not available for that language.

[Stagea]

I believe this is the KB on your earlier post as i said the KB is not intended for tinity but for other AMD model. I also read that article and it did not mention any piledriver.

The xbit article DOES mention Piledriver. It's a review of Vishera which uses Piledriver cores.

The Microsoft Hotfix was published before the Piledriver based processors were released, which is why there is no mention of Trinity/Vishera processors in Article ID: 2645594. However, it should effect the same scheduling change to Piledriver based processors because Piledriver cores are "Enhanced Bulldozer" cores as per AMD. If it did not, I'd be surprised if MS does not make a followup release to patch up Piledriver.

Have your tried applying the Hotfix, btw? At least we'd know for sure if you try it.

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I read all article regarding the hotfix and this is for AMD buldozer. As [er microsoft apply the HOTFIX to the system that has issue not all system will need this hotfix as not all system has same issue. I also read the microsoft hotfix article.

Apply this hotfix only to systems that are experiencing the problem described in this article. This hotfix might receive additional testing. Therefore, if you are not severely affected by this problem, we recommend that you wait for the next software update that contains this hotfix.

Source: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

AMD Bulldozer gets hotfix from MicrosoftMicrosoft has rolled out a hotfix to optimize the performance of AMD's Bulldozer processors on Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 based systems.


The hotfix enables Bulldozer to use Simultaneous Multithreading (SMT). This article introduces an update that optimizes the performance of AMD Bulldozer CPUs that are used by Windows 7-based or Windows Server 2008 R2-based computers. Currently, the performance of AMD Bulldozer CPUs is slower than expected. This behavior occurs because the threading logic in Windows 7 and in Windows Server 2008 R2 is not optimized to use the Simultaneous Multithreading (SMT) scheduling feature. This feature was introduced in the Bulldozer family of AMD CPUs. Note This issue may occur when you use applications that run in multiple threads.

KB2645594 (Download here) (install this first) The CPU scheduling techniques that are used by Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 are not optimized for the AMD Bulldozer module architecture. Therefore, multithreaded workloads may not be optimally distributed on computers that have one of these processors installed in a lightly-threaded environment. This may result in decreased system performance for some applications. When this update is installed, the scheduler will be aware that your Bulldozer processor contains dual-core modules. In essence, threads 1-4 now get assigned to their own module first.

Source: http://downloads.guru3d.com/AMD-Bulldozer-hotfix-from-Microsoft-download-2831.html

[Stagea]

I read all article regarding the hotfix and this is for AMD buldozer. As [er microsoft apply the HOTFIX to the system that has issue not all system will need this hotfix as not all system has same issue. I also read the microsoft hotfix article.

Did you even read what I indicated? The Microsoft article was written prior to the release of Enhanced Bulldozer aka Piledriver, hence the model numbers of subsequent processors are not listed. It is listed as an applicable fix for Piledriver in many third party websites however, if you need other sources. You will notice that most benchmarks of Trinity and Vishera either run Windows 8 or Windows 7 with the scheduling fix.

Here's an example:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-5800k_5.html
"For our tests of the AMD A10-5800K platform we installed KB2645594 and KB2646060 OS patches, which adapt the scheduler operation for Bulldozer and Piledriver microarchitectures."

It is but natural for this to be the case because Piledriver's design is a mild evolution of the Bulldozer architecture. The very reason for the release of this fix still exists in the Piledriver module architecture.

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Did you even read what I indicated? The Microsoft article was written prior to the release of Enhanced Bulldozer aka Piledriver, hence the model numbers of subsequent processors are not listed. It is listed as an applicable fix for Piledriver in many third party websites however, if you need other sources. You will notice that most benchmarks of Trinity and Vishera either run Windows 8 or Windows 7 with the scheduling fix.

Here's an example:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-5800k_5.html
"For our tests of the AMD A10-5800K platform we installed KB2645594 and KB2646060 OS patches, which adapt the scheduler operation for Bulldozer and Piledriver microarchitectures."

It is but natural for this to be the case because Piledriver's design is a mild evolution of the Bulldozer architecture. The very reason for the release of this fix still exists in the Piledriver module architecture.

Yah i read. parang ganito lang yan why you will fix it if there is no issue at all. Bat ko ipapatch if wala naman issue sa paggamit as simple as that. But i will do what you ask to check that patch. 

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Tested the KB2645594 but its not applicable on my system ano kaya yung test ng xbitxlabs. Kaya minsan di basta basta 100% naniniwala sa mga review i always refer to my actual experience. Now maybe windows 8 has the bug for the pile driver. I make sure to test first before commenting not just base on google or reviews.  

[Stagea]

Tested the KB2645594 but its not applicable on my system ano kaya yung test ng xbitxlabs. Kaya minsan di basta basta 100% naniniwala sa mga review i always refer to my actual experience. Now maybe windows 8 has the bug for the pile driver. I make sure to test first before commenting not just base on google or reviews.  

I think you need Service Pack 1 to install this "sp2 release" patch. This patch installs even on systems with Intel processors running Windows 7 SP1.

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I think you need Service Pack 1 to install this "sp2 release" patch. This patch installs even on systems with Intel processors running Windows 7 SP1.

As per checking microsoft site it say windows 7 not windows 7 with sp1 alone. 

Note The "Hotfix download available" form displays the languages for which the hotfix is available. If you do not see your language, it is because a hotfix is not available for that language.
Prerequisites
To apply this update, you must be running one of the following operating systems:
•Windows 7
•Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1)
•Windows Server 2008 R2
•Windows Server 2008 R2 Service Pack 1 (SP1)
For more information about how to obtain a Windows 7 or a Windows Server 2008 R2 service pack, click the following article number to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
976932
(http://support.microsoft.com/kb/976932/ )
Information about Service Pack 1 for Windows 7 and for Windows Server 2008 R2

source: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

As say on the article of microsoft this is for and no AMD A10 on the article. 

This article introduces an update for computers that are running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2 and that have a processor from one of the following series installed:
•AMD FX
•AMD Opteron 4200/4300
•AMD Opteron 6200/6300
•AMD Opteron Bulldozer

Have you read the article of microsoft about the patch?

[Stagea]

As per checking microsoft site it say windows 7 not windows 7 with sp1 alone. 

source: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2645594

As say on the article of microsoft this is for and no AMD A10 on the article. 

It may be referring to Windows 7 retail (or early OEM) with SP1 installed subsequently via Windows Update or Windows 7 SP1 package (later OEM releases) installed in one go. I have not experienced a failed install for this hotfix with SP1 except when a prior leaked patch is installed.

The files that apply to a specific product, SR_Level (RTM, SPn), and service branch (LDR, GDR) can be identified by examining the file version numbers as shown in the following table.
Version   Product   SR_Level   Service branch
6.1.760 0 . 16xxx   Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2   RTM   GDR
6.1.760 0 . 20xxx   Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2   RTM   LDR
6.1.760 1 . 17xxx   Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2   SP1   GDR
6.1.760 1 . 21xxx   Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2   SP1   LDR

All the listed files in the hotfix are 6.1.7601..xxxxx in file version, meaning they apply to SP1.


As for the A10 being unlisted, I think you just like going round and round. The article was posted in January of this year, prior to the launch of the A10.