Author Topic: Weak Voice/vocals on movies (Laptop + 2 channel amp setup) (Read 8679 times)

qguy · « **on:** Nov 29, 2012 at 05:52 AM »

On music files using iTunes, the vocals is very clear, but when watching movies, the voice is weak, I can increase the volume, but when the explosions starts its too loud naman

Any suggestions ?

Setup

Vintage Amp
Bookshelf speaker
Behringer USB Dac
15 inch subwoofer
WIN XP ->Windows Media player playing MP4 1080p files
Screen 12 inch Laptop screen

FAIL !!! malaki pa yung sub ko sa screen ko

rthirtyfourgtr · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 29, 2012 at 06:01 AM »

what's the audio format of the movie files, is it stereo or multichannel (i.e. 5.1)?

if it's multichannel, it's possible that downmixing to stereo is not properly configured.

if everything is configured properly, then it's probably you noticing the difference between dynamic range in music and in movies

Stagea · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 29, 2012 at 06:02 AM »

You can try the built-in Quiet Mode enhancement in Windows Media Player. It compresses the dynamic range to tame the loud passages.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #3 on:** Dec 04, 2012 at 12:29 AM »

qguy doesn't like loud explosions.

DTNS · « **Reply #4 on:** Dec 06, 2012 at 09:44 PM »

baka mali ang settings sa receiver/ amp mo. ganun sa Harman ko, muffled ang sound pag naka Logic 7/ 7.1 setting (2.0 pa lang setup ko ngayon). nung sinet ko sa Stereo 2.0, malinaw at malakas na ang sound!

rthirtyfourgtr · « **Reply #5 on:** Dec 07, 2012 at 05:09 AM »

^ he's using a vintage amp as stated above, any and all processing is done solely by the laptop.

raider125jeigh · « **Reply #6 on:** Dec 07, 2012 at 05:41 AM »

2 channel lang kasi....
but if you have seperate center speaker better yan
naghahalo kasi ang gunshots and etc sa boses

≧◉◡◉≦xrampage≧◉◡◉≦ · « **Reply #7 on:** Dec 09, 2012 at 08:30 AM »

Quote from: raider125jeigh on Dec 07, 2012 at 05:41 AM

2 channel lang kasi....
but if you have seperate center speaker better yan
naghahalo kasi ang gunshots and etc sa boses

+1

Center speaker will do the vocal output right now on your setup the two speaker is your output of everything.

markcrenz · « **Reply #8 on:** Dec 09, 2012 at 02:54 PM »

Quote from: raider125jeigh on Dec 07, 2012 at 05:41 AM

2 channel lang kasi....
but if you have seperate center speaker better yan
naghahalo kasi ang gunshots and etc sa boses

di yan problema kung maayos ang downmixing to stereo. i've used different 2-channel systems for movies since vhs (antanda ko na!) to laserdisc to the early years of dvd, maayos naman ang vocals. one only has to accept the reality that movies have wider dynamic range than most music, so the system must be able to handle such range.

raider125jeigh · « **Reply #9 on:** Dec 09, 2012 at 06:05 PM »

On music files using iTunes, the vocals is very clear, but when watching movies, the voice is weak, I can increase the volume, but when the explosions starts its too loud naman
-----------------------------------

the voice is weak?
merong mga titles ng movie na mahina ang voices

i myself used Home theater in a box 2.1 which can handle the voices ok...
but your aiming for more....
iba ung seperates sa 5.1 setup
sa 2.0 channel setup unless you get used on hearing voices/gunshots/airplane / bombs in two speakers

ang tendency your aiming for louder voice - the more you turn on the volumer higher the more it gets loud with other sounds on the movie

you may use stereo for movie all the time...but having 5.1 setup is very different

CENTER AND SUB are the best thing i need to have for HT..

rthirtyfourgtr · « **Reply #10 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 07:10 AM »

adding the extra speakers for 5.1 will definitely improve SQ on playback of 5.1 material, but the difference in dynamic range is still there.

gunshots and explosions will still be loud (as they should be, as they try to approximate how loud those sounds are in real life,) unless you engage processing that will decrease the difference between soft and loud passages (dynamic range compression)

take note that movie soundtracks are mixed with a standard reference level in mind, while music is not.

i typically watch movies with the volume set to -12dB (give or take.) when i play music at this level though, i find it too loud at this setting, i usually turn the volume down to -24dB or less. by my observation, music is mixed too loud.

i believe that TS is experiencing the same thing but the opposite of my perspective...

his system was primarily used for music and at the same volume setting, his observation is that human voice in movies is mixed too soft. he was right in turning up the volume so that dialog would sound fine, but was just uncomfortable with how loud sound effects like gunshots and explosions were

barrister · « **Reply #11 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 10:26 AM »

Quote from: qguy on Nov 29, 2012 at 05:52 AM

On music files using iTunes, the vocals is very clear, but when watching movies, the voice is weak, I can increase the volume, but when the explosions starts its too loud naman

In movie soundtracks, the dialog volume level is used as the reference point for normalization.

Therefore, to set up the correct volume, listen to the dialog volume level. If the dialog volume level is correct, then the volume level of the entire soundtrack is correct.

You observed that when you increase volume level so that dialog is clear, the explosion sound effects get too loud.

The sound effects are not too loud. Hindi ka lang sanay sa tamang volume level. Your real problem is that you disagree with the dynamic range of the soundtrack as recorded. You want the track's dynamic range to be narrower.

There are two alternatives:

1) Use dynamic range control on the sound. PC media players have some form of dynamic range adjustment. On AV receivers, that's "Night Mode" or "Midnight Mode." --- or

2) Get used to the correct dynamic range of movie soundtracks.

qguy · « **Reply #12 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 10:46 AM »

Thanks for all the replies. Like what MarkCrenz said there should not be any issue if the system is played on a 2.1 system or a 5.1 system. I just find that at normal levels where I can clearly hear the voice, the explosions are too darn loud (for my neighbors sake), well as explained by some, an EXPLOSION is an EXPLOSION and it has to be loud or supot siya hehehe. I dont mind the explosion levels, I just dont think my neighbors would appreciate an explosion everyday and everynight hehehe

I did try the Quite mode on Windows Media player, but the explosions lost some of its impact, so I just it off and LET ER RIP !!!

BTW..
The center channel is not for voice, it is used to CENTER the sound to the center of the screen, regardless of where your sitting.

raider125jeigh · « **Reply #13 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM »

CENTER not for VOICE?
AFAIK
lahat ng track DTS , DD, DD TRUE HD, DTSHD MA
lahat ng boses sa center binabato....kung wala kang center speaker walang boses
unless istereo

naka downmix ung movie mo sa STEREO kaya dyan lumalabas...
boses ay para sa center speaker..... were taking about HT...
unless ang pinapanood mo stereo agad ung audio...AVI files , aac, etc....

personal opinion lang..

or try other players baka may settings to satisfy your needs....

markcrenz · « **Reply #14 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM »

Quote from: qguy on Dec 10, 2012 at 10:46 AM

Thanks for all the replies. Like what MarkCrenz said there should not be any issue if the system is played on a 2.1 system or a 5.1 system. I just find that at normal levels where I can clearly hear the voice, the explosions are too darn loud (for my neighbors sake), well as explained by some, an EXPLOSION is an EXPLOSION and it has to be loud or supot siya hehehe. I dont mind the explosion levels, I just dont think my neighbors would appreciate an explosion everyday and everynight hehehe

I did try the Quite mode on Windows Media player, but the explosions lost some of its impact, so I just it off and LET ER RIP !!!

BTW..
The center channel is not for voice, it is used to CENTER the sound to the center of the screen, regardless of where your sitting.

yeah man let er rip!

methinks it is a common misconception that the center is just for vocals. eh halos lahat ng movies hindi lang boses ang encoded sa center channel. and marami rin movies na nagpa-pan yung boses around, depende syempre sa position ng actor relative to the screen.

qguy · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM »

Does the voice of the actor still come out of the CENTER speaker even if the actor is on the LEFT or Right of the screen ?

If just so happen that most of the time the actors is on the CENTER of the screen, that why most of the voice is on the center channel. Try listening to an explosion that happens on the center of the screen, a lot of the sound will come from the CENTER channel.

Also try Phantom Center, turn off your Center Channel and use this setting, Sit in the middle and in a properly setup system, parang may Center Channel ka pa rin

The call it the CENTER channel and not the VOICE Channel for a reason.

Quote from: raider125jeigh on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM

CENTER not for VOICE?
AFAIK
lahat ng track DTS , DD, DD TRUE HD, DTSHD MA
lahat ng boses sa center binabato....kung wala kang center speaker walang boses
unless istereo

sientobente · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 11:53 AM »

Quote from: raider125jeigh on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM

lahat ng boses sa center binabato....kung wala kang center speaker walang boses
unless istereo

actually meron master, you can still run a 4.1 setup without a center speaker and may boses pa rin even without doing stereo mode. i lived with that kind of setup for almost a decade. sa tingin ko ang center speaker is to enable a seamless transition from the front left and right channel.

going back to the topic, have you tried skipping the usb dac and plug the laptop directly to the amp using the 3.5mm jack? i know it will sound weaker but it may sound more balanced so we can isolate if it's a dac downmixing issue.

qguy · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 06:57 PM »

When I tried the headphone out from the laptop, pangit ang sound sa audio.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 07:09 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM

yeah man let er rip!

methinks it is a common misconception that the center is just for vocals. eh halos lahat ng movies hindi lang boses ang encoded sa center channel. and marami rin movies na nagpa-pan yung boses around, depende syempre sa position ng actor relative to the screen.

Quote from: qguy on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Does the voice of the actor still come out of the CENTER speaker even if the actor is on the LEFT or Right of the screen ?

If just so happen that most of the time the actors is on the CENTER of the screen, that why most of the voice is on the center channel. Try listening to an explosion that happens on the center of the screen, a lot of the sound will come from the CENTER channel.

Also try Phantom Center, turn off your Center Channel and use this setting, Sit in the middle and in a properly setup system, parang may Center Channel ka pa rin

The call it the CENTER channel and not the VOICE Channel for a reason.

I agree with you guys. It also helps a lot sa panning ng left and right speakers para mas gitna ang image ng sound.

edboy7 · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 07:30 PM »

Quote from: sientobente on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:53 AM

actually meron master, you can still run a 4.1 setup without a center speaker and may boses pa rin even without doing stereo mode. i lived with that kind of setup for almost a decade. sa tingin ko ang center speaker is to enable a seamless transition from the front left and right channel.

going back to the topic, have you tried skipping the usb dac and plug the laptop directly to the amp using the 3.5mm jack? i know it will sound weaker but it may sound more balanced so we can isolate if it's a dac downmixing issue.

4.1? ....I guess your DSP is Downmixing the audio to Stereo/DOLBY 2.0 or LTRT...which is the the safest way to hear it on a stereo speakers.......kasi kung "discrete" yan sir you wont hear any dialogue on what ur viewing

Primarily all dialogues are placed in the center minsan may naka sa left or right kung talagang nandun yung kinakausap....but all audio information will br there if you select 2.0 kung available sa file mo...kung di naman your laptop should have a Dolby decoder which marami na yata meron ngayon or yung player mismo may sariling decoder ...like VLC

....kung Quite mode naman it means it will put..." HARD LIMITER setting" to control or limit explosions or any any audio signal that would hit that setting....HTH

edboy7 · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 07:37 PM »

Quote from: qguy on Nov 29, 2012 at 05:52 AM

On music files using iTunes, the vocals is very clear, but when watching movies, the voice is weak, I can increase the volume, but when the explosions starts its too loud naman

Any suggestions ?

Setup

Vintage Amp
Bookshelf speaker
Behringer USB Dac
15 inch subwoofer
WIN XP ->Windows Media player playing MP4 1080p files
Screen 12 inch Laptop screen FAIL !!! malaki pa yung sub ko sa screen ko

Ganito ba yun? ...LAPTOP---->DAC USB---->AMP? .... try playing it on VLC bro

sientobente · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 08:02 PM »

Quote from: edboy7 on Dec 10, 2012 at 07:30 PM

4.1? ....I guess your DSP is Downmixing the audio to Stereo/DOLBY 2.0 or LTRT...which is the the safest way to hear it on a stereo speakers.......kasi kung "discrete" yan sir you wont hear any dialogue on what ur viewing
Primarily all dialogues are placed in the center minsan may naka sa left or right kung talagang nandun yung kinakausap....but all audio information will br there if you select 2.0 kung available sa file mo...kung di naman your laptop should have a Dolby decoder which marami na yata meron ngayon or yung player mismo may sariling decoder ...like VLC ....kung Quite mode naman it means it will put..." HARD LIMITER setting" to control or limit explosions or any any audio signal that would hit that setting....HTH

it works sir. what is your receiver? i was using this setup on my old pioneer vsx433 avr(non-dts capable) and the dd surround effects even work and the dialog is there. your post made me experiment with newer avrs i had on hand which is an onkyo 608 and a denon 2307, disconnected and turned off the center speaker from the settings, and it plays well. dialog is present on the front speakers, and the rear speakers still does the surround effects without the conversation being there. both avrs even detect my setup as a 4.1.

edboy7 · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 08:41 PM »

ahh,,,where did you turn off the center speaker?....sa setting ba sa amp? ..kung ganun po your is automatically down mixing it and decoding it on Dolby surround ba talagang lalabas sa Left and Right channel po ...which surround signal is mono....digital connection po ba from the source? or anu po yung connrction from the source?

kung naka digital connection. at walang nakakabit sa speaker out ng center channel..... then try choosing the DTS or DD 5.1 signal na audio ng movie mo ....IM sure ...walang dialogue yan....music and ambiance/sound effects matititira and room reverb ng center channel kung meron man

sientobente · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 08:48 PM »

Quote from: edboy7 on Dec 10, 2012 at 08:41 PM

ahh,,,where did you turn off the center speaker?....sa setting ba sa amp? ..kung ganun po your is automatically down mixing it and decoding it on Dolby surround ba talagang lalabas sa Left and Right channel po ...which surround signal is mono....digital connection po ba from the source? or anu po yung connrction from the source?

i disconnected the center channel cable from the avr and then turned off the center speaker from the settings. the source were nmts(wdtv livehub and measy a1hd) using an hdmi cable. it looks like the front speakers were merged as front and center upon turning it off because i literally put my ear next to the speakers to hear if it was just downmixing to stereo, but no, surround effects weren't present on the fronts just the rear and the dialog stayed infront.

sientobente · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 08:55 PM »

Quote from: edboy7 on Dec 10, 2012 at 08:41 PM

ahh,,,where did you turn off the center speaker?....sa setting ba sa amp? ..kung ganun po your is automatically down mixing it and decoding it on Dolby surround ba talagang lalabas sa Left and Right channel po ...which surround signal is mono....digital connection po ba from the source? or anu po yung connrction from the source? kung naka digital connection. at walang nakakabit sa speaker out ng center channel..... then try choosing the DTS or DD 5.1 signal na audio ng movie mo ....IM sure ...walang dialogue yan....music and ambiance/sound effects matititira and room reverb ng center channel kung meron man

sorry replied too soon

yes sir, i tried both dts and dd 5.1 movies, 300 for DD and Fast Five for DTS. Same output, dialog was present and surround effects stayed on the rear speakers. Actually what you were describing will happen if the center speaker is still active on your avr settings, if you turn it off it will merge the center channel audio into your front speakers.

edboy7 · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 08:56 PM »

Quote from: sientobente on Dec 10, 2012 at 08:48 PM

i disconnected the center channel cable from the avr and then turned off the center speaker from the settings. the source were nmts(wdtv livehub and measy a1hd) using an hdmi cable. it looks like the front speakers were merged as front and center upon turning it off because i literally put my ear next to the speakers to hear if it was just downmixing to stereo, but no, surround effects weren't present on the fronts just the rear and the dialog stayed infront.

ayun! in red hehehe wag mo i turf off yung sa speakers settings ....tapos walang connection yung center .....sigurado wala kang dialog sir

..........nag auto downmix kasi yan pag ganun sir....sa lahat yata ng AMP ganun AFAIK.....so lahat ng center signal punta lahat sa Left and Right channel yan....BTW I'm using and OLD model MARANTZ HT amp

.

qguy · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 10, 2012 at 09:00 PM »

Yes, will look for VLC

Quote from: edboy7 on Dec 10, 2012 at 07:37 PM

Ganito ba yun? ...LAPTOP---->DAC USB---->AMP? .... try playing it on VLC bro

rthirtyfourgtr · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 11, 2012 at 05:56 AM »

Quote from: edboy7 on Dec 10, 2012 at 08:56 PM

ayun! in red hehehe wag mo i turf off yung sa speakers settings ....tapos walang connection yung center .....sigurado wala kang dialog sir ..........nag auto downmix kasi yan pag ganun sir....sa lahat yata ng AMP ganun AFAIK.....so lahat ng center signal punta lahat sa Left and Right channel yan....BTW I'm using and OLD model MARANTZ HT amp .

IME with modern receivers (5 years old and newer,) this activates PHANTOM CENTER channel.

virtually every PC software that i've used since the days of DVD automatically uses this as well (if your speaker is configured as stereo or 4.1)

IME, only reason to loose center channel audio (and the large amount of dialog typically mixed into it) is to have center speaker set as present in the receiver/software config, when you don't have a center speaker at all. in short, improper configuration of the system

maybe on your old marantz receiver it's not capable of down-mixing multi-channel into stereo, but in more recent receivers, they handle down-mixing and phantom center just fine.

raider125jeigh · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 11, 2012 at 06:01 AM »

Quote from: qguy on Dec 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Does the voice of the actor still come out of the CENTER speaker even if the actor is on the LEFT or Right of the screen ?

If just so happen that most of the time the actors is on the CENTER of the screen, that why most of the voice is on the center channel. Try listening to an explosion that happens on the center of the screen, a lot of the sound will come from the CENTER channel.

Also try Phantom Center, turn off your Center Channel and use this setting, Sit in the middle and in a properly setup system, parang may Center Channel ka pa rin

The call it the CENTER channel and not the VOICE Channel for a reason.

I don’t get the logic lalabas ung boses sa CENTER SPEAKER dahil asa gitna ung actor?

***LEAD VOCALS****** ang produce nya
Kahit na kaliwa o kanan ang tao..kapag naguusap sa center yan lumalabas….unless ung dialogues are use for surr sound and other stuff

CENTER speaker are use for DIALOGUEs and special effects

WIKI WIKI WIKI

It is the channel that is mostly, or fully, dedicated to the reproduction of the dialogue of
an audiovisual program

In material without accompanying visuals (e.g. music), the center channel simply reproduces sound intended to come from immediately in front of the listener, which usually includes the lead vocals, which are rarely panned hard left or right.

qguy · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 11, 2012 at 06:24 AM »

This is the main purpose ng center channel, even noong panahon pa ng Dolby Prologic, wala pang 5.1

If you have several listeners across the listening area only a few will be in the sweet spot. Now if iyou have a listener on the left side, most of the sound he will hear will be coming from the LEFT speaker, same with the person on the Right Side. if your the unlucky one na nasa right side, medjo weird yung movie experience mo, kasi yung screen nasa Left side mo and then yung sound nasa Right side lang kasi close ka sa Right side. How did the engineers solve this ? by Adding a Center Channel. Before 5.1 came to be, 2.0 lang, What they did is that the signal that are present in the left and Right Channels is MIXED to produce the Center Channel. The effect is regardless where your sitted, naka fixed yung sound sa CENTER ng screen because of the Center Channel unless may mga panning effect. Sa 5.1 they do the same thing pero digitally na.

If you notice maraming CENTER channel speakers na dual woofers compared to their Left and Right counter parts na single woofers lang, Why add another woofer if its just for VOICE ? sana midrange na lang diba, pero hindi, It is because most of the explosions is at the Center Channel, so you need a robust center channel.