Author Topic: Non-Catholic  (Read 71603 times)

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Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #390 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:30 PM »
My replies in blue/red letters...

kaya ako naniwala na Lazarus and rich man is not a parable kasi may connection siya when Jesus "descend" to hell... all the believers who died prior to Jesus death doesnt go directly to heaven where God the father abode, they go first to Abrahams bossom and i believe this is the place where God put Enoch. basically, its still Jesus who goes to heaven first since when Jesus descend to hell isinama na rin niya sina Abraham (and all those who died prior to His death) to heaven.





pwede ba mangyari yan dpogs? eh nauna si enoch kay abraham di ba?
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:30 PM by majoe »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #391 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 11:45 PM »
pwede ba mangyari yan dpogs? eh nauna si enoch kay abraham di ba?

:) oh sorry again... it only means the paradise... doon po kasi sa kwento ni Jesus sinabi niya na "Abraham's bossom" greek word kolpos [kovlpo"] literally refers to the side or lap of a person... nasanay na akong tawagin siyang abraham's bossom kesa sa tawagin kong paradise...

this is where Jesus at iyong katabi niya sa cross nagpunta during Jesus three days of death

Luke 23:40-43
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.


and take note ang reply ni Jesus

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

hindi sinabi ni Jesus na today you will be in heaven... instead Jesus said... today you will be with me in paradise.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #392 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 06:14 AM »
may hula pero di pa rin ibig sabihin na walang free will si judas.
choice pa rin nya yun kahit sabihin pa nating may nang dedemonyo sa kanya.
si peter nga, akala nya di nya madedeny si Hesus pero na deny pa rin.
ibig sabihin lang, kapag dumating sa isang tao ang pagsubok, lalabas talaga ang natural tendency nya. 
greed sa case ni judas at self preservation naman kay peter. yun ang nangibabaw at choice naman nila yun.

Alam ba ni Jesus na si Judas ang magkakanulo? If yes, why didn't he stop/save him?
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 06:32 AM by bumblebee »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #393 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 07:19 AM »
Alam ba ni Jesus na si Judas ang magkakanulo? If yes, why didn't he stop/save him?

Whatever maging sagot dito sir, same din siguro applies with the enemies of the Israelites, the fallen angels, and siguro, sinners in the eyes of God.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #394 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 07:23 AM »
The problem is Judas is his sheep.

"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?

Whatever happened to that teaching?

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #395 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 07:24 AM »
The problem is Judas is his sheep.

"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?

Whatever happened to that teaching?

You have a point. Ganun din sa angels. What about free will sir?

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #396 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 07:36 AM »
Angels should know better :) And come to think of it, are the fallen angels really at "war" with God, knowing they don't stand a chance? And did Satan not ask God permission to do evil on Job?

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #397 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:06 AM »
Angels should know better :) And come to think of it, are the fallen angels really at "war" with God, knowing they don't stand a chance? And did Satan not ask God permission to do evil on Job?

I don't think so sir. Post natin yun verses:

Job 1New International Version (NIV)

Prologue
1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.


Concentrate tayo sa verses 9-11. I think what Satan is asking here is for God to remove His protection for Jacob because Jacob is:

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

Let's us also consider that Jesus was also tempted by Satan or "The Tempter" too. Did Satan asked permission? Hindi din.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #398 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:13 AM »

Ang naririnig ko, si kapatid na Felix daw ay hindi anghel na heavenly being, kundi anghel na "messenger of God," na tao rin.

Tama naman na puwedeng tawaging angel ang isang tao, kung siya ay isang tao na messenger ng Diyos. http://biblehub.com/greek/32.htm

Siya ang huling sugo, o ang huling messenger of God sa sikatan ng araw.

Official doctrine nila yan, tama?


Yes, this is correct as per INC's doctrine.

Angel from angelus meaning messenger or sugo in Tagalog.

as to the question sino ang maliligtas?

syempre ang sagot dyan ay yung mga taong sumasampalataya sa tamang doktrina at sino ang mga yan?

syempre sasagot ang bawat isang kaanib sa kni-kaniyang relihiyon na sila yun. Kung INC< INC yun. kung RC, RC yun. Kung ADD, ADD yun, Kung Jehova's Witnesses, JW yun, kung Mormons, Mormon yun.

Kung ang belief ng iba ay lahat basta naniniwala kay Kristo, so walang problema, kasama dun lahat ng kabuuan ng Kristyano, so walang bearing sa faith ninyo ang exclusivity doctrine ng iba't ibang sekta.

Sa inyo: Ligtas lahat ng Kristyano
Sa isang sektang Kristyano: sila lang ang maliligtas

Kung tumpak ang unang paniniwala, irrelevant na ang pangalawang paniniwala.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #399 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:14 AM »
The problem is Judas is his sheep.

"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?

Whatever happened to that teaching?

Nope. Judas is not His sheep. Eto iyong sinasabi ko na "christian" but deep in Judas' heart he is not a "true christian"... kahit na miyembro siya ng 12 apostles... kahit na kasama niya kumakain si Jesus... :(:(:(

You can't find any verse in the Bible na kung saan tinawag ni Judas si Jesus na "My Lord" or "My God"... ang mababasa lang natin na tawag ni Judas kay Jesus ay "Rabbi" a teacher...

for three years Jesus gave Judas a chance to turn his heart towards God but instead choose to betray Jesus... and for me one characteristic of a true christian is know how to forgive themselves because they experienced how to be forgiven...

Judas betrayed Jesus
Peter denied Jesus not once but thrice

Judas regrets and killed hanged and killed himself.
Peter regrets his denial but didnt kill himself instead forgave himself and then asked forgiveness from Jesus.


Judas might be a christian (a follower of Christ) but he is not saved/believer.
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:17 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #400 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:15 AM »
That's like asking permission for me. Job is protected, by removing the protection, God permitted Satan.

Kinda candid talk between God and Satan no? And very cruel. Parang pinaglaruan lang si Job.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #401 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:20 AM »
Nope. Judas is not His sheep. Eto iyong sinasabi ko na "christian" but deep in Judas' heart he is not a "true christian"... kahit na miyembro siya ng 12 apostles... kahit na kasama niya kumakain si Jesus... :(:(:(

So what is he then?

Quote
You can't find any verse in the Bible na kung saan tinawag ni Judas si Jesus na "My Lord" or "My God"... ang mababasa lang natin na tawag ni Juday kay Jesus ay "Rabbi" a teacher...

Kinda assuming on your part.

Quote
for three years Jesus gave Judas a chance to turn his heart towards God but instead choose to betray Jesus...

How did you know that?

Quote
Judas betrayed Jesus
Peter denied Jesus not once but thrice

Judas regrets and killed hanged and killed himself.
Peter regrets his denial but didnt kill himself instead forgave himself and then asked forgiveness from Jesus.

Come to think of it, mas matindi pagsisisisi ni Judas. Hindi nya kinaya e.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #402 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:21 AM »
Alam ba ni Jesus na si Judas ang magkakanulo? If yes, why didn't he stop/save him?

This is actually part of the argumen of the book I am reading now:

Who was Jesus: Fingerprints of the Christ


The propositions were:

If Judas did his part, then he was actually helping come to fruition God's plan from the beginning. In essence he was helping the salvific purpose of God (who in many people's belief is Jesus too). How come he was vilified as evil when what he did led to salvation of the world.

If Judas was meant to be the traitor, where is free will there?

If Peter wished that death (on the cross) should never happen to Jesus, and Jesus said "Get behind me, Satan" to him, how come Judas who helped the plan, was considered evil.


Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #403 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:41 AM »
^What's INC's take on that? What's yours, just in case?

Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #404 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:47 AM »
hindi sinabi ni Jesus na today you will be in heaven... instead Jesus said... today you will be with me in paradise.


Paradise is in heaven; paradise is synonymous to heaven. 

Jesus did not say when the thief will go to paradise/heaven.  That was a mistranslation in the bible.
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:47 AM by barrister »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #405 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 08:58 AM »
^What's INC's take on that? What's yours, just in case?

Just to be clear. The book I am reading is grounded on the thesis that the first four books of the NT can not be the source of historicity of the life of Christ and even the supposed mentioned of jesus in Josephus, Tacitus and other extra-biblical sources are being argued as "interpolations" by early Christians to support their belief of a historical Jesus and in considering that the three synoptic gospels at times provide different narratives of what happened.

On the INC's belief, it is of the popular belief that Judas betray Jesus not because he was made to but because he chose to. Later he realized this: “I have sinned in that I have betrayed innocent blood” (Mt. 27:4).

I guess this topic will be going to predestination and foreknowledge branches later on.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #406 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:01 AM »
Quote from: dpogs on Today at 08:14 AM
Nope. Judas is not His sheep. Eto iyong sinasabi ko na "christian" but deep in Judas' heart he is not a "true christian"... kahit na miyembro siya ng 12 apostles... kahit na kasama niya kumakain si Jesus...

So what is he then?

Judas - son of perdition (the other one na tinawag na son of perdtion is satan)
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? John 6:70


Quote
You can't find any verse in the Bible na kung saan tinawag ni Judas si Jesus na "My Lord" or "My God"... ang mababasa lang natin na tawag ni Juday kay Jesus ay "Rabbi" a teacher...


Kinda assuming on your part.

The hypocrite pharisess always called Jesus a rabbi... they never called Jesus Lord or God...

i am not assuming, it is wrtten in the Bible kung babasahin lang natin. Jesus also knows that Judas doesnt believe on Him.

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64



Quote
for three years Jesus gave Judas a chance to turn his heart towards God but instead choose to betray Jesus...


How did you know that?

Jesus preached the Word of God and Judas being an apostle heard most of Jesus preaching...

Quote
Judas betrayed Jesus
Peter denied Jesus not once but thrice

Judas regrets and killed hanged and killed himself.
Peter regrets his denial but didnt kill himself instead forgave himself and then asked forgiveness from Jesus.


Come to think of it, mas matindi pagsisisisi ni Judas. Hindi nya kinaya e.

Remorseful yes but not repenting... Judas right at that moment can kneel and ask forgivenss for what he did but he didnt he is just remorseful and full of sorrow and guilt.

Any person who experienced God's ultimate forgiveness will always learn how to fogive others and to forgive himself.



There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #407 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:05 AM »

Paradise is in heaven; paradise is synonymous to heaven. 

Jesus did not say when the thief will go to paradise/heaven.  That was a mistranslation in the bible.

I belive this has something to do with the problem with punctuaton marks introduced to the Bible centuries later after they were written. Punctuation marks did not exist at the time.

If Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise", isn't it that Jesus was resurrected three days after his death. So where is that "today" part?

That's the thing also, jesus is cleared that he will be dead for three days as his comparison with Jonah's experience inside the belly of the big fish.

How come Jesus dies every year on a Friday and gets resurrected every Sunday (two days only after being dead)

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #408 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:05 AM »
Just to be clear. The book I am reading is grounded on the thesis that the first four books of the NT can not be the source of historicity of the life of Christ and even the supposed mentioned of jesus in Josephus, Tacitus and other extra-biblical sources are being argued as "interpolations" by early Christians to support their belief of a historical Jesus and in considering that the three synoptic gospels at times provide different narratives of what happened.

On the INC's belief, it is of the popular belief that Judas betray Jesus not because he was made to but because he chose to. Later he realized this: “I have sinned in that I have betrayed innocent blood” (Mt. 27:4).

I guess this topic will be going to predestination and foreknowledge branches later on.

Thank you for that. I'd like to think he had free will and was asked to, the same way God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Judas probably didn't understand why he had to do it, as you said, Jesus is innocent.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #409 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:09 AM »
I belive this has something to do with the problem with punctuaton marks introduced to the Bible centuries later after they were written. Punctuation marks did not exist at the time.

If Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise", isn't it that Jesus was resurrected three days after his death. So where is that "today" part?

That's the thing also, jesus is cleared that he will be dead for three days as his comparison with Jonah's experience inside the belly of the big fish.

How come Jesus dies every year on a Friday and gets resurrected every Sunday (two days only after being dead)

Time stops when we die. If we all go to heaven at the same time, it'd be like waking up from a sleep, as if no time elapsed. So, parang valid pa rin yung "today you'll be with me in paradise".

My understanding is that he rose on the third day, not after three days. First day would be Friday, the third is Sunday.
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:11 AM by bumblebee »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #410 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:14 AM »


If Jesus knew about Judas, why keep him there? If he knew that Judas is really evil, but wanted to save him, why didn't he say "Judas, don't betray me after 3 years, that's bad."?

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #411 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:15 AM »
Time stops when we die. If we all go to heaven at the same time, it'd be like waking up from a sleep, as if no time elapsed. So, parang valid pa rin yung "today you'll be with me in paradise".

My understanding is that he rose on the third day, not after three days. First day would be Friday, the third is Sunday.

Mat. 12:40

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Clear dyan na three days and three nights siyang patay


And my point is that, Jesus did not ascend to heaven immediately. so invalid talaga yung "today" part kahit iconsider natin na time stops when we die.

RC's belief is 40 days bago siya pumanhik di ba?

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #412 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:19 AM »
Mat. 12:40

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Clear dyan na three days and three nights siyang patay


And my point is that, Jesus did not ascend to heaven immediately. so invalid talaga yung "today" part kahit iconsider natin na time stops when we die.

RC's belief is 40 days bago siya pumanhik di ba?

Good point yung 3 days/3 nights. Thank you for that.

Tama pa rin yung "today". For example, namatay ako nagyon. You died years later. When we see other other again, I'd feel like no time has passed kahit na years na talaga yung lumipas. Kumbaga, yung "today" was relative to me.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #413 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:28 AM »
Good point yung 3 days/3 nights. Thank you for that.

Tama pa rin yung "today". For example, namatay ako nagyon. You died years later. When we see other other again, I'd feel like no time has passed kahit na years na talaga yung lumipas. Kumbaga, yung "today" was relative to me.


I won't disagree with your point sir. Considering that my belief is that we don't immediately go to heaven after we die, and that we must wait judgement day for that, i can see your point. Biblically hindi siya tinatalakay ng diretso yung idea na yan pero i can see where you are coming from.

But then again, the common belief is that after a person dies, he immediately go to heaven or hell.

at kung bata ka pa nga and unbaptized, purgatorio daw.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #414 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:37 AM »
I'm just RC by birth so I don't know much about RC's doctrines :) I'm not sure about that the Purgatory thing. Kawawa naman yung bata :(
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:41 AM by bumblebee »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #415 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:54 AM »
I'm just RC by birth so I don't know much about RC's doctrines :) I'm not sure about that the Purgatory thing. Kawawa naman yung bata :(

Sorry I made a mistake in my post.

It was limbo actually where unbaptized children will go. Purgatory is for those bit good-bit bad people.

But limbo was abandoned and abolished by in the RC doctrines by the Pope (Benedict XVI).

so ngayon sa heaven na daw ang unbaptized infants. This doctrine was intoduced by St. Augustine


sa INC ang bata ay itinuturing na walang kasalanan kaya automatic heaven pag namatay.

« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:57 AM by Quitacet »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #416 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:57 AM »
Thanks for that. Seems purgatory is a happy place :)

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #417 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 09:58 AM »
Thanks for that. Seems purgatory is a happy place :)

If Purgatory is real, it will be where most people will be. even people who are considered saints ;D


Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #418 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 10:58 AM »
How come Jesus dies every year on a Friday and gets resurrected every Sunday (two days only after being dead)

This is one of the reasons why I left the Catholic Church.

The RC says Jesus died 3pm on a Friday.  Until 3pm Saturday, that's one day; 3pm Sunday, that's 2 days; 3pm Monday, that's 3 days.   They say Jesus resurrected Sunday, before dawn.  That's only 1 1/2 days.

During Jesus' time there were 24 hours in one whole day; 12 hours day, 12 hours night.  The same as what we have today.

9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? (John 11:9)

That's the thing also, jesus is cleared that he will be dead for three days as his comparison with Jonah's experience inside the belly of the big fish.

Jesus did not just say "3 days."  He said "3 days and 3 nights" ---

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Mt. 12:40)

That's 3 days and 3 nights.  There are 12 hours in one day.  3 days and 3 nights make 72 hours.

3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth means He would be buried in the earth for 3 days and 3 nights.

This is the sign that Jesus is the Messiah --- in fact, the only sign --- the sign of the prophet Jonas.  If He was not buried for 3 days and 3 nights, then it would have been clear that Jesus was not the Messiah.

If a religious sect cannot resolve this simple issue, then it is clear that the religious sect is not of God.

That's one of the reasons why I left the RC.

So, how is the issue resolved?  Very simple.  Jesus did not die on a Friday. 

 
I belive this has something to do with the problem with punctuaton marks introduced to the Bible centuries later after they were written. Punctuation marks did not exist at the time.

If Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise", isn't it that Jesus was resurrected three days after his death. So where is that "today" part?

That's correct.  The New Testament as originally written did not contain punctuation marks.

The King James Version, which mistranslated the verse,  reads:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

The original verse, literally translated word-for-word, reads:

and he said to him truly to you I say today with me you will be in paradise http://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/23.htm

Adding commas in the correct places, it should read:

and he said to him, truly to you I say today, with me you will be in paradise

It means Jesus did not say when the thief would be in paradise.  "Today" is for emphasis --- e.g.: Truly I say to you today.
 
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Jesus Christ is the firstfruits of those who died (1 Cor. 15:20-24); the firstborn from the dead (Rev. 1:15).

Jesus Christ must be the first man who died, resurrected and went to heaven.  Pag nakarating yung magnanakaw sa langit nang araw na yon mismo, ibig sabihin nauna pa yung magnanakaw kay Kristo.

Bakit?  Kasi 3 days later, ang sabi ni Kristo hindi pa raw Siya nakakaakyat sa langit.

After His resurrection, Jesus said to Mary:

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father (John 20:17)

3 days after His death, Jesus had not yet ascended to heaven, according to the verse.  When did Jesus ascend to heaven? 40 days after His resurrection.

Yet 3 days before Jesus resurrected, wrong interpretations say Jesus and the thief were supposedly already in heaven.  That doesn't make sense.

=======================================

 
Verily I say unto you today --- What did Jesus verily say to the thief today? --- You will be with me in paradise.

When will the thief be with Jesus in paradise?  After Judgment Day. 

Where is the thief now? Still dead, the same as Enoch and Elijah.   

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb. 11:39-40)

Those who are saved will all go to heaven at the same time.  Hindi puwedeng nauna yung magnanakaw, si Enoch o si Elias, because they "should not be made perfect without us."

At lalo namang hindi puwedeng nauna pa sila kay Kristo.
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2015 at 12:54 PM by barrister »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #419 on: Aug 04, 2015 at 12:09 PM »

 
Verily I say unto you today --- What did Jesus verily say to the thief today? --- You will be with me in paradise.



pag itinuturo ito ng INC pinagtatawanan pa ng iba e. sa belief kasi nila may heaven na (with souls of good people) at may hell na din. pag itinuwid kasi yung belief na yun mawawalan na ng bisa ang prayers for the dead nila