Topic: Non-Catholic

[barrister]

Kaya nga may bibliya --- para ma-check mo kung tama ba yung tinuturo ni Father o ni Pastor.

Kung wala tayong dapat gawin kundi pakinggan si Father, dapat wala nang bibliya, kasi useless lang. 

Mahirap ba para sa Diyos na ilagay lahat ng theological knowledge sa utak ng lahat ng mga Pastor?  Kayang-kaya ng Diyos na gawin yon.  Bakit may bibliya pa na nakakagulo lang?

Hindi nakakagulo ang bibliya.  May bibliya para may siguradong batayan ng tama.  Ang nakakagulo, si Pastor, hindi yung bibliya... 

[pTrader]

Kaya nga may bibliya --- para ma-check mo kung tama ba yung tinuturo ni Father o ni Pastor.

Kung wala tayong dapat gawin kundi pakinggan si Father, dapat wala nang bibliya, kasi useless lang. 

Mahirap ba para sa Diyos na ilagay lahat ng theological knowledge sa utak ng lahat ng mga Pastor?  Kayang-kaya ng Diyos na gawin yon.  Bakit may bibliya pa na nakakagulo lang?

Hindi nakakagulo ang bibliya.  May bibliya para may siguradong batayan ng tama.  Ang nakakagulo, si Pastor, hindi yung bibliya... 

capital F, capital P ... hmmm.. so nakakagulo ay si Father, si Pastor

[CeeV]

But the Holy Bible...ang allegation ng mga brother Muslim natin that it was written in too many versions whereas ang Koran was written by a single person (Prophet Muhammad)...what's your comment on this guys? 

Can you pls. confirm that the Holy Bible that all Christian Sect/religion is only one? Or me kanya kanya silang Version? I must admit kapag tinanong ako about this..am not as well sure of this.  i.e. Bible of INC can it be used by Catholic and vice versa? Or the Anglican church and all the rest?

[rochie]

But the Holy Bible...ang allegation ng mga brother Muslim natin that it was written in too many versions whereas ang Koran was written by a single person (Prophet Muhammad)...what's your comment on this guys? 

Can you pls. confirm that the Holy Bible that all Christian Sect/religion is only one? Or me kanya kanya silang Version? I must admit kapag tinanong ako about this..am not as well sure of this.  i.e. Bible of INC can it be used by Catholic and vice versa? Or the Anglican church and all the rest?

I think all Christians uses the same bible.
for INC, no we don't have our own bible, we also use the Bible that RC/Protestants etc etc uses.

[barrister]

It's not true that there is only one version of the Koran.

http://submission.org/verify_are_all_Arabic_versions_of_Quran_the_same.html
http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

[bumblebee]

Why use the word "today" when one can use "now"? Might there be a reason for using "today"?

Also did the thief die the same day as Jesus? How long did they really last? Jesus is said to have died rather quick. Death by crucifixion can even take days.

[kidlat08]

http://www.rappler.com/move-ph/ispeak/101387-pananaw-iglesia-ni-cristo

This sums up how i feel regarding the controversies INC is facing as of late. I am also a handog, a follower, but not a blind follower. I personally hope that Ka Eduardo would stand up to the challenge and do a cleanse of his Sanggunian.

[tony]

if you have money, lots of money, and power and influence, what will you do with it?
people are people no matter what, and human nature dictates that you flaunt wealth,
use your influence to get things move your way.....such is life....

[tigkal]

We normally think about the bible as the word of God. However, if you read about the history of the bible, it was decided by men who may have vested interests. Before it was compiled, there were over 200 books. After the bible was compiled, all other books were burned and banned. How sure are we that those burned and banned books were the true gospel?

[RU9]

^agree

[barrister]

We normally think about the bible as the word of God. However, if you read about the history of the bible, it was decided by men who may have vested interests. Before it was compiled, there were over 200 books. After the bible was compiled, all other books were burned and banned. How sure are we that those burned and banned books were the true gospel?

I don't see why there should be a problem.

Don't believe the bible.  Problem solved.

[mav14]

^ Agree :-D

[Nicadraus]

Why use the word "today" when one can use "now"? Might there be a reason for using "today"?

Also did the thief die the same day as Jesus? How long did they really last? Jesus is said to have died rather quick. Death by crucifixion can even take days.

If you get whipped, crowned with thorns and beaten all over your body while carrying a big and heavy wooden cross then crucified and pierced with continues bleeding in the process, let's see if you last for at least six hours tops.

[bumblebee]

If you get whipped, crowned with thorns and beaten all over your body while carrying a big and heavy wooden cross then crucified and pierced with continues bleeding in the process, let's see if you last for at least six hours tops.

That's what I said, Jesus died rather quick because of all those things you said.

I'm talking about the other guy. The point of crucifixion is torture. The longer you live, the better. The more torture you get. That's Roman specialty, to keep you alive for as long as possible.

[jerix]

I believe that the diversity of ideas on the existence or non-existence or how one should practice reverence to God is not an issue to God himself. Following the principle that we all came from him and all matters that exist or matters that have been put in the physical dimension shall in the end return back to God because there is nowhere else to go, then all ideas that have been processed by the mind of the human being and all human experience is owned by God himself.

I dont believe that in the end, God will burn those who failed him because in the process he will be burning himself. So what is his good purpose? nothing.

[Nelson de Leon]

That's what I said, Jesus died rather quick because of all those things you said.

I'm talking about the other guy. The point of crucifixion is torture. The longer you live, the better. The more torture you get. That's Roman specialty, to keep you alive for as long as possible.

You are correct sir. Actually before Jesus, the crucifixion was especially reserved as the most cruel punishment for the most severe offenses. But when Jesus came and was crucified, the crucifix became a symbol of salvation, hope and resurrection.

[barrister]

I believe that the diversity of ideas on the existence or non-existence or how one should practice reverence to God is not an issue to God himself. Following the principle that we all came from him and all matters that exist or matters that have been put in the physical dimension shall in the end return back to God because there is nowhere else to go, then all ideas that have been processed by the mind of the human being and all human experience is owned by God himself.

That's a common belief. 

All roads lead to God.  No matter what your religion, be it Hindu, Buddhism or Christianity; no matter what your belief, be it monotheism, polytheism, agnosticism, atheism; you will still meet Him.

That is not what Christianity teaches in the bible.

Jesus did not say all roads lead to God.  Jesus said He is the only way to God:

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
 
Jesus did not say we'll get to heaven no matter which gate we enter.

He said we must enter the small gate and walk the narrow road, and that only a few will find it; many enter the wrong gate and go to destruction:

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Mt. 7:13-14)
 

I dont believe that in the end, God will burn those who failed him because in the process he will be burning himself. So what is his good purpose? nothing.

Jesus did not say it's OK whether you choose to remain in Him or not.  Jesus said if you don't remain in Him, you will be burned:

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)

 
=======================================

 
“All paths leading to God are equally good.” (Mahatma Gandhi):

“One of the biggest mistakes humans make is to believe there is only one way.  Actually, there are many diverse paths leading to what you call God.” (Oprah Winfrey)

It sounds good.  It's politically correct.  It's New Age.  It's popular.

“I’m gonna die!  Jesus, Allah, Buddha – I love you all!” (Homer Simpson)

[barrister]

 
Multi-million Airbus used by Iglesia leaders being sold
The used, 3-year-old Airbus is now selling for at most only $90 million,
much lower than its listed price of $229 million when it was new
Chay F. Hofileña
Published 8:14 AM, August 05, 2015
Updated 8:16 AM, Aug 05, 2015
 
http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/101564-airbus-iglesia-leaders-sold

[dpogs]

Mismanagement of fund not corruption kung purchasing ng eroplano ang paguusapan, tama ba.

[rochie]

Multi-million Airbus used by Iglesia leaders being sold
The used, 3-year-old Airbus is now selling for at most only $90 million,
much lower than its listed price of $229 million when it was new
Chay F. Hofileña
Published 8:14 AM, August 05, 2015
Updated 8:16 AM, Aug 05, 2015
 
http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/101564-airbus-iglesia-leaders-sold

binasa ko yung article. remember the word "USED" hehehehehe baka lang maipagpalit sa salitang "OWNED".

[barrister]

Mismanagement of fund not corruption kung purchasing ng eroplano ang paguusapan, tama ba.

Tama. 

Bumili/nag lease ng airbus, masyadong magastos.  Pero corruption?  Kailangan ng iba pang basis para masabi yon.

Hindi ko sinasabing walang corruption, tiyak na meron yan.  Ang sinasabi ko lang, kulang pa ng basis.

May kilala ako, supplier for INC.  Printing lang naman.  May corruption din daw.  Pero ayos daw magbayad ang INC, on time, walang bitin-bitin.

[RU9]

I don't see why there should be a problem.

Don't believe the bible.  Problem solved.

True.

Does it follow that you must have faith in the bible first, before faith in god, to avoid circular reasoning.

[barrister]

Does it follow that you must have faith in the bible first, before faith in god, to avoid circular reasoning.

You mean having faith in the existence of God first before having faith that the bible is the word of God is circular reasoning?

That's not circular reasoning.  Both of them are declarations of belief, not proof.  Interchange them and they're still two declarations of belief, not proof.

=====================================


This is circular reasoning:   "The bible says God exists. Therefore, God exists."

To prove that God exists, the statement starts with the premise that the bible is the word of God.  The premise already presumes that God exists, then the conclusion says God exists. 

The starting point is the same as the end result.  Circular reasoning.

[pTrader]

But the Holy Bible...ang allegation ng mga brother Muslim natin that it was written in too many versions whereas ang Koran was written by a single person (Prophet Muhammad)...what's your comment on this guys? 

Can you pls. confirm that the Holy Bible that all Christian Sect/religion is only one? Or me kanya kanya silang Version? I must admit kapag tinanong ako about this..am not as well sure of this.  i.e. Bible of INC can it be used by Catholic and vice versa? Or the Anglican church and all the rest?

Iisa po yung original manuscript for every book (e.g. Genesis, Acts, etc..). Inde po "too many versions" at ang correct po ay "too many transalation" from the orginal manuscript.

[dpogs]

And i dont think na ang librong ginagamit ng INC ay translated directly from the original manuscript.

[pTrader]

And i dont think na ang librong ginagamit ng INC ay translated directly from the original manuscript.

which one?

[dpogs]

No idea... Tagalog ata ang mga librong ginagamit nila.

[barrister]

Iisa po yung original manuscript for every book (e.g. Genesis, Acts, etc..). Inde po "too many versions" at ang correct po ay "too many transalation" from the orginal manuscript.

All original manuscripts have disappeared. 
 
There are many "ancient manuscripts" that are available today.  However, the surviving manuscripts are all copies, not "original manuscripts" or "autographs." 
 
Yes, ALL of them --- from the Old Testament to the New Tetament.  They are all copies, not originals.

[Nelson de Leon]

All original manuscripts have disappeared. 
 
There are many "ancient manuscripts" that are available today.  However, the surviving manuscripts are all copies, not "original manuscripts" or "autographs." 
 
Yes, ALL of them --- from the Old Testament to the New Tetament.  They are all copies, not originals.

Yes. Yun Leningrad Codex ata ang oldest copies natin. Though yun so called dead sea scrolls is supposedly older than the Leningrad Codex and nag-match.

[barrister]

And i dont think na ang librong ginagamit ng INC ay translated directly from the original manuscript.

No modern translation is based on the "original manuscripts" or autographs.

The King James Bible (1611), one of the oldest English versions, was based on the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. The Vaticanus and Sinaiticus are ancient manuscripts, but they are not autographs (originals).

The INC is not confined to the use of a single bible version. They use the KJV, ESV, The Message, English Translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Lamsa, etc.

They use various versions, depending on which one is they think is the most accurate for a particular verse.

For example, they use the Lamsa version for Acts 20:28.