Author Topic: MarkAudio Extended Full Range drivers - Post your build here (Read 285669 times)

deist · « **Reply #990 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 03:33 PM »

@fredreadrick - meron akong nakitang build nyan, 2 X Alpair 7.3 copper color sa dating MA thread sa diyaudio, ginamit for monitoring sa studio. Ok daw, pumapalag sa high end genelec studio monitors.

fredreadrick · « **Reply #991 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 04:48 PM »

Quote from: deist on Apr 15, 2015 at 03:33 PM

@fredreadrick - meron akong nakitang build nyan, 2 X Alpair 7.3 copper color sa dating MA thread sa diyaudio, ginamit for monitoring sa studio. Ok daw, pumapalag sa high end genelec studio monitors.

thank you sir, hanapin ko yan.
pero 12p na plan ko para wala ng "what if?

RXV · « **Reply #992 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 05:36 PM »

Quote from: fredreadrick on Apr 15, 2015 at 04:48 PM

thank you sir, hanapin ko yan.
pero 12p na plan ko para wala ng "what if?

For me, although the signature Markaudio sound is inherent in all of their drivers, there are sonic diiferences in sound per model, especially in metal vs paper material. I have both Alpair 10p (paper) and 7.3 (metal), and they exhibit slight differences in sound because of their material, each having their own strengths/highlights. It really depends on your listening preference

deist · « **Reply #993 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 07:27 PM »

Naku bro, mukhang hindi mo na makikita yung build since binura na lahat sa diyaudio ang MA threads when he left for good. Sayang talaga yung thread, ang daming nabalewalang build resouces.

If I may ask, ano ang goal mo for your MA build?

Quote from: fredreadrick on Apr 15, 2015 at 04:48 PM

thank you sir, hanapin ko yan.
pero 12p na plan ko para wala ng "what if?

deist · « **Reply #994 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 07:47 PM »

@ RXV, I agree with this, take for example the Alpair 12P vs the Alpair 10M/10P, that is 8" vs 6" cone size. You might think that the 12P having a bigger cone diameter will produce more bass, that's not the case; the Alpair 10s is widely known in MA community to produce better lows while the 12P's edges the former in micro details.

Another example; Markaudio's metal cones vs Paper cones, it's easy to conclude that the metal cone will sound more "bright" if you consider the characteristics of both cone materials, not the case again, the paper coned 10P has a peak around 600hz (which can be seen in the published frequency response graph) giving it a more pronounced/forward vocals compared to the 10.3M.

For me choosing a specific MA driver boils down to the need of the application. With MAs it doesn't necessarily mean that bigger is better. I also like that Mark didn't enter the realm of magnet wars. This whole magnet craze for me is more of a marketing strategy. A specific type of magnet, like other rare metals has level of grades or quality. A low grade neodymium/alnico doesn't guarantee a staggering improvement in sound quality vs. a high grade ferrite magnet.

Quote from: RXV on Apr 15, 2015 at 05:36 PM

For me, although the signature Markaudio sound is inherent in all of their drivers, there are sonic diiferences in sound per model, especially in metal vs paper material. I have both Alpair 10p (paper) and 7.3 (metal), and they exhibit slight differences in sound because of their material, each having their own strengths/highlights. It really depends on your listening preference

RXV · « **Reply #995 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 08:12 PM »

Quote from: deist on Apr 15, 2015 at 07:47 PM

For me choosing a specific MA driver boils down to the need of the application. With MAs it doesn't necessarily mean that bigger is better. I also like that Mark didn't enter the realm of magnet wars. This whole magnet craze for me is more of a marketing strategy. A specific type of magnet, like other rare metals has level of grades or quality. A low grade neodymium/alnico doesn't guarantee a staggering improvement in sound quality vs. a high grade ferrite magnet.

I agree with this. Andaming nagsilabasan na neodymium magnet na speakers, pero average to poor reviews naman.

fredreadrick · « **Reply #996 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 09:00 PM »

Quote from: deist on Apr 15, 2015 at 07:27 PM

If I may ask, ano ang goal mo for your MA build?

Sir,
I always listen to music...
Meron na akong AN Super 12 AlNiCo, very happy with it.
My experience with MA was CHR70 only. I asked myself "kung yung size & price ng CHR70 eh ang ganda ng tunog sa simpleng enclosure, ano pa kaya yung hi-end model?"
So why build another one? Aside from the pleasure of creating something that i'll enjoy, minsan naghahanap din ng ibang flavor.

Napa-dalawang isip ako dun sa reply mo kay sir RXV, nasagot yung mga questions sa isip ko. Thanks.
Mukhang back to drawing board uli kung anong driver kukunin ko

RXV · « **Reply #997 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 10:30 PM »

Quote from: fredreadrick on Apr 15, 2015 at 09:00 PM

Sir,
I always listen to music...
Meron na akong AN Super 12 AlNiCo, very happy with it.
My experience with MA was CHR70 only. I asked myself "kung yung size & price ng CHR70 eh ang ganda ng tunog sa simpleng enclosure, ano pa kaya yung hi-end model?"
So why build another one? Aside from the pleasure of creating something that i'll enjoy, minsan naghahanap din ng ibang flavor.

Napa-dalawang isip ako dun sa reply mo kay sir RXV, nasagot yung mga questions sa isip ko. Thanks.
Mukhang back to drawing board uli kung anong driver kukunin ko

Siguro sir, para hindi sayang time, effort and money ninyo, it's best to audition already built M.A. speaker/enclosures, para may basis ka na agad ng flavor ng gusto niyong M.A.

Audio Nirvanas are very nice indeed, narinig ko yung 8" dati ni sir Remington, lakas ng bass at puno ang details, paano pa kaya yung 12" ninyo?

Both ANs and MAs, although having the same FR characterisics, exhibit their own sonic signature. It really depends on your listening preference e.

I have Alpair 10Ps if you want to hear it. Although di pa tapos finishing. Masyadong busy hehe.

I also have Alpair 7.3s, but it will be placed in my car for near field listening (Also hindi pa tapos haha).

fredreadrick · « **Reply #998 on:** Apr 15, 2015 at 11:59 PM »

Sir RXV, am working abroad right now so i have a lot of time to tinker with speaker boxes [kaysa sa kung ano2x ibang bisyo

]. After work - music lang, pag di mapakali bukas na nman ng enclosures dagdag/bawas ng stuffing, experiment with port size & length, paiba-iba ng speaker placement. Yan lang pampalipas ko ng oras dito at panlaban na rin homesick.
Pagbalik ko, for sure subukan ko audition yung mga builds nyo. Post nyo na lang muna kahit di pa tapos, inspiration din yan. Thanks
-Fred

JoeyGS · « **Reply #999 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 12:15 AM »

Keep on working on those MA drivers ....... Once tuned properly the speakers are very revealing and really shows what your components can bring.

To get bass from the 4-6" drivers, use the floor standers. You will have no problems on the mids and highs since Mark has built the drivers with very light materials which makes it so responsive. Bass can be produced thru the best box and right stuffing.

timber715 · « **Reply #1000 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 12:58 AM »

Joey, have you ever seen a build ng 70.3 na hindi ported? If you have, would you know the internal volume it needs... Otherwise will probably port.
Also, why hasn't there been a build na centered ang speaker mounting? Or maybe I just missed it....

JoeyGS · « **Reply #1001 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 01:11 AM »

Here's your sealed box: http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/mMarS-1v0-map-231009.pdf

What do you mean by centered speaker mounting?

Quote from: timber715 on Apr 16, 2015 at 12:58 AM

Joey, have you ever seen a build ng 70.3 na hindi ported? If you have, would you know the internal volume it needs... Otherwise will probably port.
Also, why hasn't there been a build na centered ang speaker mounting? Or maybe I just missed it....

timber715 · « **Reply #1002 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 02:34 AM »

Quote from: JoeyGS on Apr 16, 2015 at 01:11 AM

Here's your sealed box: http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/mMarS-1v0-map-231009.pdf

What do you mean by centered speaker mounting?

Thanks for the link...
Regarding the speaker placement, most if not all the designs have the speakers mounted higher than the centerline. Does this affect the sq or they just raised it?

deist · « **Reply #1003 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 10:17 AM »

Bro, my question is more on the application you intend to use it. Desktop/stand-mount ba or floorstander? Are you planning to incorporate a sub with it in the future? If it will be a single point-source like your ANs please do us all a favor and go for the Alpair 10, your choice if you want the metal or paper and build the Frugel-Horn Mark 3 enclosure

, specifically the left most in the pic below:

Drivers in the pic are (from left to right): Alpair 10P EnAbled, Alpair 7P & Alpair 7.3. The enclosure for the Alpair 10P is called Frugel-Horn-XL or FHXL, it's supposed to produce extended, dynamic bass better than any other enclosure published for MA drivers while maintaining clarity in details in mids & highs. Since you said you have access to building materials, go for this na para naman makarinig ako ng MAs in frugel horn

But I like that you are trying different driver brands, every DIYer should do the same. I'm also checking out other brands for a future project.

Quote from: fredreadrick on Apr 15, 2015 at 09:00 PM

Sir,
I always listen to music...
Meron na akong AN Super 12 AlNiCo, very happy with it.
My experience with MA was CHR70 only. I asked myself "kung yung size & price ng CHR70 eh ang ganda ng tunog sa simpleng enclosure, ano pa kaya yung hi-end model?"
So why build another one? Aside from the pleasure of creating something that i'll enjoy, minsan naghahanap din ng ibang flavor.

Napa-dalawang isip ako dun sa reply mo kay sir RXV, nasagot yung mga questions sa isip ko. Thanks.
Mukhang back to drawing board uli kung anong driver kukunin ko

JojoD818 · « **Reply #1004 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 10:42 AM »

Quote from: timber715 on Apr 16, 2015 at 02:34 AM

Thanks for the link...
Regarding the speaker placement, most if not all the designs have the speakers mounted higher than the centerline. Does this affect the sq or they just raised it?

Theoretically, the location of the driver on a sealed enclosure doesn't really matter (in a perfect world so to speak). However, on vented enclosures, there is a minimum and maximum distance for the driver and the port so that the port does not unload the driver below the port's resonant frequency. This is just for the location of the port wrt the driver.

As for being above the centerline, here's what I can remember from memory.

1. Being above the centerline provides the least baffle plane resonance occuring being more reinforced as it approaches the edges of the enclosure.

2. Diffraction. Mounting the driver/s with an offset from the centerline changes the time and frequency domains of diffraction, however, this does not reduce the amount of energy re-radiated by the internal walls. This is where stuffing is mainly used - unfortunately, most builders I see use stuffing as if it is a band aid to change the box frequency response.

As sound waves like to bounce from hard surfaces, stuffing is supposed to aid in eliminating reflection, diffraction, or bounce NOT to change the box frequency response. If you are using stuffing like that then that means you have designed the wrong box for that particular driver.

In FR drivers/enclosure designs, the design and volume of the box most certainly dictates the lowest frequency possible to be reproduced. But overdoing it will result in unloading the driver below the lowest frequency the driver and box is designed for, thus, instead of the box reinforcing the driver and having more bass, you actually reduce the amount of bass because the driver sees the unwarranted increase in the box size as if it were in free air.

3. Mounting the driver with an offset from the centerline also introduces a change in the phase angle of the mids and highs wrt the low frequencies. Distribution that aids directionality is what we're after here. This my friend is what gives height, depth and imaging to the music we hear coming out of the driver/box combination.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #1005 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 10:57 AM »

Quote from: timber715 on Apr 16, 2015 at 02:34 AM

Thanks for the link...
Regarding the speaker placement, most if not all the designs have the speakers mounted higher than the centerline. Does this affect the sq or they just raised it?

Brader,

In acoustic engineering, everything has a reason behind it (usually also comes with a compromise in real world scenarios). Hindi pwede dito yun hula-hula lang or kasi gusto mo lang. This is for the same reason why a B&W driver installed (or transplanted) in another box will not sound like a B&W anymore.

It is a discipline most involved in Physics and Math. It's no joke, but everything is laid out already, all we have to do is follow the path. I believe this is what Mark Fenlon has been trying to do for the longest time, provide solid, verified and real-world tested enclosures for his drivers.

Someone once asked in DA... "Will MA driver box designs also work with other FR drivers like Fostex?"... the simplest answer is NO, unless, the Fostex driver has the exact driver characteristics as the MA driver. If one insists in doing so, then it would be just a hit or miss affair.

timber715 · « **Reply #1006 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 11:31 AM »

Salamat Jo, figured it did but wanted to be sure....

deist · « **Reply #1007 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 12:24 PM »

Brader Jo, straight to the point ang last 2 posts mo pero eksakto! This got me thinking; If I'm someone new to FR drivers, wants to try MA & I go to this thread medyo intimidating & nose bleed. I guess ganun ang perception ng ibang members ng PDVD, some must be thinking "masyadong maraming alam ang mga nasa MA thread" hahaha and we might be discouraging others from building. Nasanay yata tayo sa diyaudio style

But if you will read the posts & replies here marami kang mapupulot and most of them are facts. Imagine if we just keep on posting "upgrade na" or "go for this or for that" without asking the right questions then we are just doing everyone a disservice, and most builds siguro will end up in the market place. The last thing we want to do is spread misinformation, there's too much of that going around already

JojoD818 · « **Reply #1008 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 12:49 PM »

Brader deist,

Noon bata pa ako (hindi pa naman ganun katagal iyon

), my brothers have a subscription to a local electronics magazine Electronics Enthusiasts. It contains electronics projects that has very nice and detailed documentation and Alexan Commercial (now Ace Electronic Technology, Inc) in Elcano St., Divisoria sells kits, complete with pre-made and pre-drilled PCBs and parts.

It was so successful that other local electronics entrepreneurs like CMC, Elco, and even Deeco's Miyama brand dived into electronics kit selling. The edge Alexan has over these other businesses was it has Electronics Enthusiast (or EE mag as we call it) to back it up and provide detailed building steps, calibration and testing and even suggests enclosures for your kit projects whereas the others only has photo-copied schematics and parts placement guides. You are left to your own devices in case it doesn't work.

MA is like Alexan and EE, it has readily available plans that has been tried and tested. Just choose your driver and a suitable box plan and you have an excellent chance of ending up with a viable product. All the work has been done already for the user, all one needs to do is pick one that suits the bill and they're off.

fredreadrick · « **Reply #1009 on:** Apr 16, 2015 at 04:52 PM »

Quote from: deist on Apr 16, 2015 at 10:17 AM

Bro, my question is more on the application you intend to use it...

Sir, i grew up with my brother having speakers in every room in the house. Even in toilet & laundry area. We went to sleep with the music on. He built amplifiers & speakers from Raon, while i was into a band.

To answer your question:
*Listening Room - Alpair-10P-A or 12P [FS]
*Bedroom Room - CHP-70A-P [BS]
*Den/Work - Alpair-7A Gold[Monitor]

Libre naman mangarap