Author Topic: Tube Rolling.......  (Read 23556 times)

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Offline ATJr.

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Tube Rolling.......
« on: Nov 25, 2013 at 08:12 PM »
this thread is for those that believe in tube rolling..... ;D
you can post your favorite tubes to roll here for others to refer to...

for starters, these are youtube links...

how to spot a 12ax7 tube..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d-cZB7DgA
how to spot a 12au7 tube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EisjVc5yIj4
how to spot a 6L6gc tube....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tnYpD9F7w0
how to spot an EL34 tube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXBVSIaqkkU
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Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #1 on: Nov 30, 2013 at 08:08 PM »
rectifier tubes for rolling :)

« Last Edit: Nov 30, 2013 at 08:08 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #2 on: Dec 01, 2013 at 11:18 AM »
5V4 has a heather/cathode, the 5Y3's are directly heated....
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Offline ATJr.

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #3 on: Dec 01, 2013 at 11:35 AM »
the much venerated 6SN7 started as a TV tube in the vertical scanning section,
when more brawn was needed, they came up with the 6BL7 and the 6BX7...
still as time went by and the drive towards miniaturization of equipment using tubes,
the 6SN7 guts migtrated to the 9pin miniature and was called the 6CG7/6FQ7...
it is said that in a rush to cope with the demand for the new form factor,
some octal 6SN7 were gutted and innards taken....how true? ;)
the 12 volt version, the 12au7 is called by many names is a baby 6SN7...
the miniature 6GU7 is more like a 12BH7....

http://www.hawestv.com/mtv_cbssys/cbssysadapt1.htm
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring12/elct402/AssignmentDetails/RCA_Victor.pdf

notice that, the tv vetical scanning circuits are actually audio amplilers,
the basis of today's line amps using the 6SN7..
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Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #4 on: Dec 01, 2013 at 05:56 PM »
master maganda ang sq sa 5v4-sylvania at 5y3-truetone. Sa sylvania malambing tamed ang highs sa truetone very wide ang soundstage at very crispy at medyo airy pero hindi sobra :)
« Last Edit: Dec 01, 2013 at 05:57 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline juneaki

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #5 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 08:37 AM »
Mga masters, i'm a newbie when it comes to tubes and tube amp. Pwede po paki-explain pa in layman's term what tube rolling means.  ;)

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #6 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 09:03 AM »
bunutin yung tubes sa socket,
papalitan ng ibang brand na same number,
then pakikinggan ang sound kung ano pinagkaiba...
pwede izero ang volume control ng preamp at power amp... ;)
markahan ang tube, "mataba", "maganda sa boses", "makalansing", etc.
pwede ring, microphonic yung tube, sensitive sa mechanical vibrations...
marami kang madidikubre sa tube rolling.... :D
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Offline Gino

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #7 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 11:02 AM »
I want to learn more about how my amp works. I have a Sun Audio SV-2a3 clone. 2a3, 6SN7, 5U4 tubes. Schemes are all over the net. Can you explain (if that is even possible for a layman to understand) how the tubes and transformers participate in the amplification? I am keen to understand the stages rather than how things technically work in detail.

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #8 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 11:35 AM »
I want to learn more about how my amp works. I have a Sun Audio SV-2a3 clone. 2a3, 6SN7, 5U4 tubes. Schemes are all over the net. Can you explain (if that is even possible for a layman to understand) how the tubes and transformers participate in the amplification? I am keen to understand the stages rather than how things technically work in detail.



in a nutshell....

1. the power transformer and associated rectifier/psu converts meralco to dc needed by the tubes plates and ac low voltage to power the filaments..
2. the output transformer matches tube plate resistance to a level that can feed or drive the speakers...

3. more than the tubes, the irons used in any tube amp is the deal maker, my reasoning is that tubes are easy, just get another and replace and you're done. but transformers are set once you stick them in...

4. once the power tube operating points have been decided, like for the 2A3, that's 250 volt plate at 60mA cathode current, you need to drive its grid to get output swing, the power tube plate current is maximum at near 0 volt grid and minimum at about -45 volts and beyond. we will need another tube to provide this grid voltage swing...

at the chosen operating point, the 2A3's plate resistance is about 800ohm, so that a 2.5k ohm plate load is consistent with low distortion and reasonable power output...

5. the voltage amplifier is used, it can be a triode like the 6SN7 or a pentode like the EL84 or a D3a. the voltage amplifier converts a 1 volt input to a 45volt peak output.

6. the 6sn7 has an amplification factor of about 20, so 2 stages makes a maximum gain of about 400, but in reality voltage gain is much lower than 400, 100 is a realistic figure, the 2A3 has a gain of 4 so that your amplifier tubes has a gain of about 400, divide that by the turns ratio of the OPT at about 18, so that your gain structure is about 23.
7. what this means is that a 1 volt peak will give 23 volts peak at the speaker terminal...

tubes are easier to figure out than SS, up to now, heated debates are on-going at diyaudio....
« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2013 at 11:40 AM by ATJr. »
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Offline Gino

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #9 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 11:58 AM »
Wow, that was quick. A mouthful to digest but doable with more reading.



« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2013 at 01:27 PM by Gino »

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #10 on: Dec 03, 2013 at 12:15 PM »
single ended amps are the easiest to do and recommended for newbies,
just get your components right, and you will be rewarded with a nice sounding amp....
the 2A3's are not prone to humming because of its low filament voltage..
millions and millions of Single ended amps were built into TV sets of days gone by.....
but of course the SET's of today are not the same.....but they sound the same then and now...
« Last Edit: Dec 03, 2013 at 06:47 PM by ATJr. »
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Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #11 on: Dec 22, 2013 at 01:25 PM »
jj el34 power tubes courtesy of master tonyT





now burning ;)

« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2013 at 01:26 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline Chorus

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2013 at 01:28 PM »
jj el34 power tubes courtesy of master tonyT





now burning ;)



Congrats Bro!

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2013 at 01:54 PM »
Congrats Bro!
thanks! "Merry Christmas to all"
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18, 2014 at 06:17 PM »
pair of 6sn7 and motorola 5Y3 rectifier tube for rolling (all black plate) ^-^

« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2014 at 06:19 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline tony

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #15 on: Jan 18, 2014 at 07:45 PM »
the brand may be different but they look like the same tubes....
that was how it was in the olden days, GE buys from RCA, RCA buys from Philips, etc, etc, that is why you see identical tubes having different brand labels...
there is even 6H8C tubes sold as 6SN7 bit International brand...
Trigon sels 6L6GC which are identical to a Russian 6P3C......
just a big merry go round...:D
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #16 on: Feb 02, 2014 at 09:23 AM »
rolling again ;)

tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline xbase

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #17 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 12:08 PM »
rolling again ;)



feeling itchy bro... hehehe... try mo naman kt88...

Offline tony

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #18 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 12:16 PM »
kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline xbase

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #19 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 12:29 PM »
kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....

ayan bro jun, 6L6gc na....!

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #20 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 12:32 PM »
feeling itchy bro... hehehe... try mo naman kt88...
curious lang bro sa SQ ayos din maganda ang lows at boses. ;)

kt88 will be asking too much, hindi designed yung power traffo for the kt88/6550 in that amp...
6l6gc is more like it, i have quad here that Jun can try out....
ayos yan master try ko minsan para marinig kung ano difference he he... ^-^
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #21 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 12:33 PM »
ayan bro jun, 6L6gc na....!
oo nga try ko minsan kung ano improvement he he.
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline tony

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #22 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 01:28 PM »
kunin mo na lang sa house pag balik mo dito....:D
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #23 on: Feb 07, 2014 at 01:29 PM »
kunin mo na lang sa house pag balik mo dito....:D
ayos!!! thanks master ;D
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2014 at 01:29 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #24 on: Feb 23, 2014 at 02:17 PM »
6cg7 and 6j9 driver tubes courtesy of master tonyT



in action
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline tony

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #25 on: Feb 23, 2014 at 02:27 PM »
nice......:D
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #26 on: Mar 09, 2014 at 02:49 PM »
another RCA rectifier tube for rolling (dunno ::) the number but its huge)



The 6SN7 tubes looks like peanut tubes sitting beside this rectifier :o :o :o



and it gave a wonderful sound!!! ;) ;) ;)
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2014 at 02:50 PM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #27 on: Mar 10, 2014 at 08:44 PM »
5670 windmill on top and sylvania at the bottom peanut tubes for tube buffer ;).smooth black plate square getter coming soon ^-^

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2014 at 10:16 AM by remington »
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...

Offline Tsnad

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #28 on: Mar 18, 2014 at 10:29 AM »
daming tubes ha....  set amp na ba sunod... >:D >:D

Offline remington

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Re: Tube Rolling.......
« Reply #29 on: Mar 18, 2014 at 02:42 PM »
daming tubes ha....  set amp na ba sunod... >:D >:D
malapit na hehe!!!
tube + audio nirvana = beyond...