Author Topic: Question on the Holy Trinity (Read 55043 times)

dpogs · « **Reply #360 on:** Oct 08, 2015 at 10:06 AM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:29 AM

Ang kulit, hindi ko nga iniisip yung "salvation" ko e. I have better things to do

Quote from: dpogs on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:31 AM

oh yes yes... better things than your own salvation... got it...

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Col. 2:3

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. Mark 4:19

Maybe because you set your focus and attention in this world/Earthly matters that is why the word of God have been choke.

I pray and I hope that the Word of God reaches your heart.

bumblebee · « **Reply #361 on:** Oct 08, 2015 at 11:03 AM »

Oh, akala ko gets mo na?

I'm have a feeling you're misunderstanding or using those verses incorrectly. But I won't go there. Hindi naman ako Bible expert.

pTrader · « **Reply #362 on:** Oct 08, 2015 at 11:41 AM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 08, 2015 at 11:03 AM

Oh, akala ko gets mo na?

I'm have a feeling you're misunderstanding or using those verses incorrectly. But I won't go there. Hindi naman ako Bible expert.

Naiintindihan ko na yung common sense mo, pag nakamali ka or if you did bad thing ,natural mag repent ka kasi mali ginawa mo.

sana tama ako..

panzimus · « **Reply #363 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 01:14 AM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:52 AM

Tama assumptions mo sa posts ko sir. And tama rin na sabihing repent lang, because repenting implies we did something wrong. Napakasimple naman hindi ba?

Ang intindi yata kasi nila, nung sinabi kong repent, kailangang mag-repent kahit walang kasalanan.

DVD_Freak, tama "assumption" ko. Hahahaha! Ginamitan ko lang ng "common sense" sa pagbabasa at pagintindi sa mga posts dito.

DVD_Freak · « **Reply #364 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 06:25 AM »

Quote from: panzimus on Oct 09, 2015 at 01:14 AM

DVD_Freak, tama "assumption" ko. Hahahaha! Ginamitan ko lang ng "common sense" sa pagbabasa at pagintindi sa mga posts dito.

Wala naman ako sinabi if tama or mali ka. Did I? Sabi ko is.... "I think you are assuming." I was not questioning if tama or mali yun assumption mo. Only I was saying I think your statement is an assumption. Kasi hindi naman talaga sinabi ni bumblbee yun. He confirmed it also na you were assuming.

And tama naman. Sabi nga njya he implied.

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:52 AM

Tama assumptions mo sa posts ko sir. And tama rin na sabihing repent lang, because repenting implies we did something wrong. Napakasimple naman hindi ba?

Kita mo sakin nag assume ka. I never said you were wrong....i said I think you are assuming.

majoe · « **Reply #365 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 04:37 PM »

Quote from: jerix on Oct 08, 2015 at 07:20 AM

So atty., follow up. Taking off from your explanation, the God the son before the birth of JC was in a form of spirit. Correct? The God the son only manifested in flesh later when he was born through Mary?

Quote from: barrister on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:16 AM

Yes.

spirit ba talaga kalagayan ng God the Son?

alam ko hindi spirit form kasi God the Son is the image (body) of God the Father.
kaya kung ano kalagayan at hitsura ni Jesus after resurrection, ganun rin before ma conceive ni Mary.

barrister · « **Reply #366 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 06:47 PM »

No, hindi ganon yon sir.

Ang image, ibig sabihin likeness. If the Father is spirit, the Son is also spirit. Ang sabi sa Col.1:15, the Son is the image of the invisible God. If the Father is by nature invisible, then the Son is also by nature invisible.

Siyempre, pag anak ng tao, tao rin. Anak ng aso, aso rin. Anak ng Diyos, Diyos din. Invisible ang Ama, invisible din ang Anak.

The Son is the only begotten.

Angels can be called sons of God, humans can be called sons of God. But none of them can be called "only begotten son."

Exception lang na ang mga tao ay tawaging children of God. Kasi by adoption lang yon. Kaya nga walang taong puwedeng tawaging bugtong na anak ng Diyos.

RU9 · « **Reply #367 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 08:09 PM »

How well do you know the doctrine of the Trinity?

http://www.challies.com/resources/take-a-test-on-the-trinity

panzimus · « **Reply #368 on:** Oct 09, 2015 at 09:15 PM »

Quote from: DVD_Freak on Oct 09, 2015 at 06:25 AM

Wala naman ako sinabi if tama or mali ka. Did I? Sabi ko is.... "I think you are assuming." I was not questioning if tama or mali yun assumption mo. Only I was saying I think your statement is an assumption. Kasi hindi naman talaga sinabi ni bumblbee yun. He confirmed it also na you were assuming.

And tama naman. Sabi nga njya he implied.
Kita mo sakin nag assume ka. I never said you were wrong....i said I think you are assuming.

ok, mahilig ako mag-assume. assumero ako. lahat ng bagay inaassume ko. hahahahaha!

DVD_Freak · « **Reply #369 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 12:35 AM »

Quote from: panzimus on Oct 09, 2015 at 09:15 PM

ok, mahilig ako mag-assume. assumero ako. lahat ng bagay inaassume ko. hahahahaha!

Hahaha! San mo naman nakuha yan?

Kung dun ka masaya eh then go!

panzimus · « **Reply #370 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 02:19 AM »

Quote from: DVD_Freak on Oct 10, 2015 at 12:35 AM

Hahaha! San mo naman nakuha yan? Kung dun ka masaya eh then go!

inassume ko ulit. hahahaha! teka, OT na tayo. di na to nakaka-contribute sa thread.

jerix · « **Reply #371 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 07:18 AM »

Quote from: barrister on Oct 09, 2015 at 06:47 PM

No, hindi ganon yon sir.

Ang image, ibig sabihin likeness. If the Father is spirit, the Son is also spirit. Ang sabi sa Col.1:15, the Son is the image of the invisible God. If the Father is by nature invisible, then the Son is also by nature invisible.

Siyempre, pag anak ng tao, tao rin. Anak ng aso, aso rin. Anak ng Diyos, Diyos din. Invisible ang Ama, invisible din ang Anak.

The Son is the only begotten.

Angels can be called sons of God, humans can be called sons of God. But none of them can be called "only begotten son."

Exception lang na ang mga tao ay tawaging children of God. Kasi by adoption lang yon. Kaya nga walang taong puwedeng tawaging bugtong na anak ng Diyos.

Atty pa explain nga ulit ung kung paano nagkaroon ng mga designation, as in Father, Son and spirit na lahat ay tinuring na God kung simula pa man e tatlo o 3 in 1 na sila, at walang nauna o nahuli? What should have been the reason of such designation when only one God can actually do anything he wants as it pleases himself?

barrister · « **Reply #372 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 08:41 AM »

Hindi ko malaman kung paano ang magiging approach ko sa sagot.

I do not believe in the Trinity. The word "Trinity" does not appear in the bible. The concept of a Trinity is not biblical.

Your question is premised on a belief in the Trinity doctrine. So, if I disagree with the premise, I can't answer without first changing the premise.

Pero puwede rin siguro, kung limited lang sa ganitong issue ang sasagutin ko:

Quote from: jerix on Oct 10, 2015 at 07:18 AM

What should have been the reason of such designation when only one God can actually do anything he wants as it pleases himself?

If God can do anything He wants, then He does not need a reason for doing what He does.

God has revealed some things to man, but He has not revealed everything to man. All we can do is understand the things revealed. We can't understand things that were not reveled.

For example, God revealed that the sins of all mankind were forgiven through the death of Jesus. Why did Jesus have to die for the forgiveness of sins? Because death is required as sacrifice for the atonement of sins. As a final sacrifice for all, the sacrifice should be a man without sin. Since Jesus is the only one without sin, then He is the only one qualified to become a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

That's the extent of what was revealed.

We might ask --- why is a sacrifice even necessary? If God is all-powerful, then surely He can forgive all sins if He wants to, without need for any human sacrifice. Why the need to go through all this trouble?

There is no answer to that question, because it is beyond the scope of what was revealed to us.

In the same manner, if we go to the question of why God wanted the designations of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, when it would have been much simpler to have one single God in one person, the same principle applies.

God revealed the existence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and that is the limit of what was revealed. Why didn't God just make it simpler? There is no answer to that question.

We should not apply our own logic, because we will still fail to understand. That's why God explains:

“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Is. 55:9)

DVD_Freak · « **Reply #373 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 08:46 AM »

Quote from: panzimus on Oct 10, 2015 at 02:19 AM

inassume ko ulit. hahahaha! teka, OT na tayo. di na to nakaka-contribute sa thread.

I don't know why you insist on having an argument with me. Wala nga ako pakialam if tama ka or mali. Hindi naman kasi yun ang niraise ko. But if you really insist on needing to have one... then do it with the sole and only post who raised the issue na tama or mali yun assumption mo.... oh eto tutulungan pa kita.

Quote from: panzimus on Oct 09, 2015 at 01:14 AM

Quote from: panzimus on Oct 08, 2015 at 02:07 AM
ang mas makakapagsabi naman talaga kung tama or mali "assumption" ko is si bumblebee.
tama "assumption" ko. Hahahaha! Ginamitan ko lang ng "common sense" sa pagbabasa at pagintindi sa mga posts dito.

Oh sige have fun!

bumblebee · « **Reply #374 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 09:09 AM »

If god is a spirit, and burning sulfur can burn spirits to ashes, does that mean god can be destroyed? I know god won't let that happen, but let's suppose he'll let that happen, can he be destroyed?

dpogs · « **Reply #375 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 10:15 AM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 10, 2015 at 09:09 AM

If god is a spirit, and burning sulfur can burn spirits to ashes, does that mean god can be destroyed? I know god won't let that happen, but let's suppose he'll let that happen, can he be destroyed?

Where did you get the idea that spirit can be turned to ash?

Human spirit can be burned but cant be destroyed. Even if you put them in lake of fire, they will be burned but never destroy.

If human spirit cant be destoyed how much more God.

bumblebee · « **Reply #376 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 10:40 AM »

Last post of page 9 then page 10.

dpogs · « **Reply #377 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 10:53 AM »

wala akong mabasa na "spirit can be turned to ash"...

barrister · « **Reply #378 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 01:52 PM »

Sir dpogs, sa tingin ko honest question ito ngayon. Dito kasi maraming malakas mang-asar, hindi mo na malaman kung nang-aasar lang o may gusto talagang malinawan.

Parang nakita ko na ang problema sa issue na ito. Pero hindi makukuha sa short explanation, kasi ang common belief ay malayo sa bible.

In English, soul and spirit are synonymous. But in the bible, there is a difference that is caused by differences in the original language of scripture. There is no English equivalent for this distinction.

That's why understanding the difference between soul and spirit can be very difficult.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (Heb. 4:12)

How can the soul and spirit be divided? (nobody seems to be interested in my side questions...

)

======================================

I believe humans will be burned in hellfire, and they will be consumed until they become ash.

This belief alone is very controversial. The majority belief is that humans will become spirit and will be thrown into everlasting fire in hell, yet they will never be consumed. They will just be tormented forever in fire.

In Revelation, there will be two resurrections.

In the first resurrection, the saved will resurrect as spirit.

But in the second resurrection, the damned will resurrect as mortal beings, who will be thrown into the fire, will burn, and will be consumed.

When the bible says they become ash, it means they are totally destroyed and consumed. They burn because they have mortal bodies. They are not spirits burning in hell for all eternity.

That is why the punishment for the damned is called the second death. They died once physically at the end of their natural lifetimes, then they resurrect with mortal bodies, and are burned in the fire to die again.

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Rev. 21:6-8)

dpogs · « **Reply #379 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 02:18 PM »

Yup. But nowhere in the Bible i can find that a soul or spirit can be turned to ash.

bumblebee · « **Reply #380 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 02:42 PM »

Quote from: dpogs on Oct 10, 2015 at 02:18 PM

Yup. But nowhere in the Bible i can find that a soul or spirit can be turned to ash.

Put aside the ashes thingie for a while. You agree the spirit or soul can be destroyed?

dpogs · « **Reply #381 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 02:52 PM »

Quote from: bumblebee on Oct 10, 2015 at 02:42 PM

Put aside the ashes thingie for a while. You agree the spirit or soul can be destroyed?

They will last forever whether they are in heaven or in the lake of fire.

barrister · « **Reply #382 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 02:59 PM »

I have a different view. The soul can be destroyed.

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt. 10:28)

The body can be destroyed in hell. The soul can be destroyed in hell.

How about the spirit?

No problem if soul and spirit are the same. Otherwise, that's another issue.

dpogs · « **Reply #383 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 03:04 PM »

You mean by the word "destroy" is will cease to exist gone forever?

barrister · « **Reply #384 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 03:10 PM »

Yes, destroy as in cease to exist. Utterly destroy, permanently perish.

Greek apolesai --- permanent, absolute destruction.

That's why I already clarified that I have a different view.

dpogs · « **Reply #385 on:** Oct 10, 2015 at 03:23 PM »

My belief is eternal destruction. Souls, hell, demons and saran will be destroyed forever eternally but they will never be extinct.

2 Thes 1:9, Rev 14:10-11

panzimus · « **Reply #386 on:** Oct 11, 2015 at 01:29 AM »

Atty, if the soul and spirit can be divided, first question is how do you differentiate the two? This is an interesting topic indeed. Is it that the soul is the kaluluwa and the spirit like how we use it in terms like "human spirit", "his spirit is down" etc? TIA!

dpogs · « **Reply #387 on:** Oct 11, 2015 at 01:43 AM »

When we die, our soul will either go to heaven or hell, spirit will always go back to God.

Our soul is the essense of our human being, the spirit is the one that connects us to God. These two are connected but can be separated as the soul can be separated from God and spirit cant be separated from God.

panzimus · « **Reply #388 on:** Oct 11, 2015 at 02:07 AM »

Ahhhh...thanks dpogs. If ever a person's soul go to heaven, di na nya kailangan humiwalay sa spirit? And follow up question, pag sa hell naman punta ng soul, pano naman yung spirit na magisa na lang pabalik kay God? I mean paano yung consciousness nung person that owns both soul and spirit nung buhay pa sya pagmagkahiwalay na?

jerix · « **Reply #389 on:** Oct 11, 2015 at 08:57 AM »

That is why I've always been saying that if the spirit is burned by God, then he will be burning himself.

I believe that we only have one spirit because we all come form one source and that is God. The individualized spirit which stores our past and present experiences in the different lifetimes is the soul.