Author Topic: Question on the Holy Trinity (Read 54959 times)

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #90 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 06:04 PM »

Quote from: jerix on Jul 31, 2014 at 12:03 PM

So limited by his knowledge brought about by his human state, he actually did not know that he is God himself.

Quote from: NongP on Jul 31, 2014 at 12:18 PM

pero nabuhay nya yun patay, make the blind see & the cripple walk.

And to add, He also forgives sins. Pinasan niya ang mga kasalanan ng tao. The Perfect Sacrifice.

Quote from: bumblebee on Jul 31, 2014 at 01:05 PM

Well if he was such a genius, he would have taught the civilization back then calculus and invented the IPad:) Kidding aside, I'd like to think so. He needed to be human to redeem us as a human. It would be such a waste if he was still God, why go through all the trouble if he can just snap his fingers.

That's a good point. probably because He wants us to learn? And most of all, this I'm sure, He needed to be human in order for Him to sacrifice Himself for the atonement of sins. I don't know kung tama ang logic ko pero let me try. Ever since sa old testament, madaming sacrifices na ginagawa ang mga jews. Perfect lamb, goat etc, for the atonement of their sins. And these sacrifices are being offered to God, who is perfect. How can you offer a nearly perfect lamb to a perfect God? Kung baga, it was not enough to atone for their sins. But due to God's Love for man, He has to sent His Son, to be a Man, a Perfect Man, to atone for the sins of mankind. A Perfect Sacrifice for a Perfect God. And Jesus' death/sacrifice was not only for the dead persons from the old testament, para na din sa mga tao sa time ni Jesus, and for the future generations (that's us). All God wants from us is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ who bore our sins. Faith in God who will always provide us with whatever we need according to His knowledge.

rexFi · « **Reply #91 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 06:12 PM »

sa OP

Quote from: jerix on Jul 29, 2014 at 08:58 AM

To all who believes:

If the Holy Trinity postulates 3 equal Gods which existed co-equally even prior to creation, and Jesus Christ, the God with flesh, is supposed to be God the son, then who was God the son before the birth of Christ?

Thanks to anybody who will respond.

He was a "Spirit person dude".

Not like us who are created, He was "Eternal" too like the Father. John 1:1 etc

RU9 · « **Reply #92 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 08:50 PM »

Quote from: SiCkBoY on Jul 31, 2014 at 12:28 PM

My professor in Philosophy 101 had a favorite example of fallacy:

The Bible is the Word of God.
How do you know that it is the Word of God?
Because it says so in the Bible.

barrister · « **Reply #93 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 09:37 PM »

Quote from: jerix on Jul 29, 2014 at 08:58 AM

If the Holy Trinity postulates 3 equal Gods which existed co-equally even prior to creation, and Jesus Christ, the God with flesh, is supposed to be God the son, then who was God the son before the birth of Christ?

1. Walang Holy Trinity sa Bible. 1 John 5: 7-8 (the Johannine Comma) does not prove the existence of a Holy Trinity.

2. Christ (the "Word") existed from the beginning. When Jesus was conceived and born, the Word merely assumed human form. It does not mean that the Word did not exist before the conception and birth of His human body.

Thus, John 1: 1, 2, 14 explains:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. ... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Notes:

- The Word is God.
- The Word existed from the beginning.
- The Father also existed from the beginning. The Word and the Father both existed from the beginning; and the Word was with the Father from the beginning.
- Then the Word assumed human form and dwelt among us.

Who was He before He became flesh? --- The only begotten Son (the "monogenes" - John 1:14). The same until now. Hindi naman nagbago e.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-14.htm

AppleMan · « **Reply #94 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 09:55 PM »

^_Korak si Brader.....ang Dios noon Dios pa din ngayon ang Anak noon na si Jesus Christ Anak pa din naman ngayon nag-KATAWANG TAO sya dahil sa gagawin nya sa lupa para tubusin ang TAO sa mga kasalanan at kasama na din na IPA-NGANGARAL nya ang EVANGHELYO sa TAO to prepare or give a guidelines to HUMANITY for SALVATION...

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #95 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 09:57 PM »

Quote from: china-man on Jul 31, 2014 at 09:55 PM

^_Korak si Brader.....ang Dios noon Dios pa din ngayon ang Anak noon na si Jesus Christ Anak pa din naman ngayon nag-KATAWANG TAO sya dahil sa gagawin nya sa lupa para tubusin ang TAO sa mga kasalanan at kasama na din na IPA-NGANGARAL nya ang EVANGHELYO sa TAO to prepare or give a guidelines to HUMANITY for SALVATION...

Correct sir. Actually, may salvation na din sa old testament.

dpogs · « **Reply #96 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 10:36 PM »

Quote from: panzimus on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:29 AM

I mean no disrespect at all, I'm just wondering. God is holy, why would there be a sense of fear and pain? Di ba dapat a sense of peace and well-being kung ang naramdaman natin is galing kay God?

because we are still in human form... but

when you personaly become son of God through Jesus Christ then the Holy Spirit lives in you and eventually you will experience inner peace...

dpogs · « **Reply #97 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 10:40 PM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Jul 31, 2014 at 09:57 PM

Correct sir. Actually, may salvation na din sa old testament.

during the fall of Adam and Eve... God show them the way to salvation...

xbase · « **Reply #98 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 10:55 PM »

this topic is very interesting, it point us to our belief and review our knowledged about God and our faith.

for me, my understanding about Trinity is this:

Trinity:
3 Person = 1 God.
Person 1 is not Person 2 or 3. same goes with Person 2 as not Person 1 or 3.

mathematically speaking, this cannot be because 3 not= 1. i cannot and will not understand through number.

Trinity:
1 God = 3 Person.
psychologically, this is very hard to understand, the complete unity of 3 Person as 1 God. let us take for example 2 person, say a husband and a wife. we know that no two person can think, act and agree all of the time. there will be disagreement.
another example are us commenting here, we have diff view and mind, we cannot be united and agree in the same topic. therefore we cannot be god.
God is not like that. They are in complete agreement. 1 uniqueness of God.

may the Holy Spirit enlighthen us in this area.

AppleMan · « **Reply #99 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:08 PM »

^_ibig nyo po bang sabihin sa TRINITY yung Ama, Anak at Espiritu Santo ay iisa?

xbase · « **Reply #100 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:16 PM »

Quote from: china-man on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:08 PM

^_ibig nyo po bang sabihin sa TRINITY yung Ama, Anak at Espiritu Santo ay iisa?

isang Diyos!

dpogs · « **Reply #101 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:20 PM »

1 God in 3 person

xbase · « **Reply #102 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:22 PM »

Quote from: dpogs on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:20 PM

1 God in 3 person

tumpak 1 God in 3 Person!

saro · « **Reply #103 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:25 PM »

wala po tayong mababasa sa bible na ang holy spirit ay isang persona..
ang diyos(ama) ay may pangalan--yahweh or jehova
ang anak meron din-jesus or yeshua
but holy spirit--wala
definitely hindi persona ang holy spirit..it is the active force of god

xbase · « **Reply #104 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:45 PM »

Quote from: saro on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:25 PM

wala po tayong mababasa sa bible na ang holy spirit ay isang persona..
ang diyos(ama) ay may pangalan--yahweh or jehova
ang anak meron din-jesus or yeshua
but holy spirit--wala
definitely hindi persona ang holy spirit..it is the active force of god

neither do the word Trinity is in the bible. we talk about the 3 Person in relation with each other. we refer the Holy Spirit as a Person in relation to the Trinity. the whole chapter 14 of John is a good example as Jesus is explaining ro thomas.

dodie · « **Reply #105 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:46 PM »

Quote from: xbase on Jul 31, 2014 at 10:55 PM

this topic is very interesting, it point us to our belief and review our knowledged about God and our faith.

for me, my understanding about Trinity is this:

Trinity:
3 Person = 1 God.
Person 1 is not Person 2 or 3. same goes with Person 2 as not Person 1 or 3.

mathematically speaking, this cannot be because 3 not= 1. i cannot and will not understand through number.

Trinity:
1 God = 3 Person.
psychologically, this is very hard to understand, the complete unity of 3 Person as 1 God. let us take for example 2 person, say a husband and a wife. we know that no two person can think, act and agree all of the time. there will be disagreement.
another example are us commenting here, we have diff view and mind, we cannot be united and agree in the same topic. therefore we cannot be god.
God is not like that. They are in complete agreement. 1 uniqueness of God.

may the Holy Spirit enlighthen us in this area.

mathematecally and psychologically, it may be hard to understand sir. but biblically, it myt shed some light on your dilema. kht ako naguguluhan, but every questions that i have, by reading the bible, nasasgot naman kht medyo vague sa pagkakaintindi ko.

xbase · « **Reply #106 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:48 PM »

and "Holy Spirit" is the name Himself.

xbase · « **Reply #107 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:50 PM »

Quote from: dodie on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:46 PM

mathematecally and psychologically, it may be hard to understand sir. but biblically, it myt shed some light on your dilema. kht ako naguguluhan, but every questions that i have, thru reading the reading of the bible, nasasgot naman kht medyo vague sa pagkakaintindi ko.

very correct sir, by reading the Bible we get our answer...

saro · « **Reply #108 on:** Jul 31, 2014 at 11:57 PM »

holy spirit is not a personal name..or either a person that can think or act on its own like the father or the son..

xbase · « **Reply #109 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:08 AM »

Quote from: saro on Jul 31, 2014 at 11:57 PM

holy spirit is not a personal name..or either a person that can think or act on its own like the father or the son..

i respect your view and belief over this matter sir. but as i explained above, my belief in the Trinity stands.

saro · « **Reply #110 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:11 AM »

sa bible marami tayong mababasa na ang ama ay god almighty
ang anak,si jesus,sa isaiahs tinawag din siyang diyos
pero ang holy spirit,ni isang verse sa bible wala tayong mababasa na siyay diyos or kahit idea man lang na itoy diyos..

xbase · « **Reply #111 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:17 AM »

Jesus speaking:

"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

John 14:26

and in Matthew 28:19

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

dodie · « **Reply #112 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:18 AM »

a question on the persona of god is also a question of faith. how can a person believe in god if you dont really knew who he is. this is not a case of "i believe in you but i dont recognize your son or your spirit perhaps".

in the context of religion in general, may dalawang klase ng tao with regards to questions......first, the one that is asking question why and second, the one that is questioning why.

xbase · « **Reply #113 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:38 AM »

Quote from: saro on Aug 01, 2014 at 12:11 AM

sa bible marami tayong mababasa na ang ama ay god almighty
ang anak,si jesus,sa isaiahs tinawag din siyang diyos
pero ang holy spirit,ni isang verse sa bible wala tayong mababasa na siyay diyos or kahit idea man lang na itoy diyos..

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...

this will be a good idea that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity.

the topic here is about Trinity and i am explaining my belief about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as 1 God, hence the term Trinity was formed. as it was in a debate for centuries, though we cannot find it in the bible( the word Trinity), we profess our belief and faith about the trinity. i have cited many passages in the bible above referring to trinity.

If you will remove the Holy Spirit as part of Trinity, it will not be a trinity anymore. hence, it will be another good topic to talk about.

saro · « **Reply #114 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:40 AM »

john 14:26-holy spirit is reffered as counselor ,in other version its a helper,but not god..as ive said earlier holy spirit is the active force of god..pinapadala nya ang banal na espiritu para ganapin ang kanyang layunin..
mathew 28:19-although binanggit ang tatlo diyan,but it doesnt mean na god din ang holy spirit..baptizing in the name of the holy spirit simply tells the authority of it because it came from the almighty god.

dodie · « **Reply #115 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:55 AM »

Quote from: saro on Aug 01, 2014 at 12:40 AM

john 14:26-holy spirit is reffered as counselor ,in other version its a helper,but not god..as ive said earlier holy spirit is the active force of god..pinapadala nya ang banal na espiritu para ganapin ang kanyang layunin..
mathew 28:19-although binanggit ang tatlo diyan,but it doesnt mean na god din ang holy spirit..baptizing in the name of the holy spirit simply tells the authority of it because it came from the almighty god.

iba ang kontexto sir pag sinabi mo na tatlong diyos sa isang kaganapan kumpara sa isang diyos na tatlo ang kaganapan. what we have here is a single god manifested to a three different persona not three kind of gods manifested in one person.

xbase · « **Reply #116 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:57 AM »

i found a passage in the bible (NIV) where the Holy Spirit was addressed as God by Peter.

Acts 5:3-4

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

dpogs · « **Reply #117 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 12:59 AM »

The Holy Spirit has the basic attributes of God.

Quote from: xbase on Aug 01, 2014 at 12:57 AM

i found a passage in the bible (NIV) where the Holy Spirit was addressed as God by Peter.

Acts 5:3-4

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

correct... you can't lie to a mere 'active force'...

i think we can't subject God's divine unity in a mathematical concept of unity... 1-in-3 or 3-in-1...

dodie · « **Reply #118 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 01:18 AM »

Quote from: dpogs on Aug 01, 2014 at 12:59 AM

i think we can't subject God's divine unity in a mathematical concept of unity... 1-in-3 or 3-in-1...

ano yan boss kape? 3 in 1.

saro · « **Reply #119 on:** Aug 01, 2014 at 01:31 AM »

dahil nga ang holy spirit ay galing sa diyos,ginagamit nya ito para gawin ang kanyang layunin.kaya tama lang ang nasabi ni pedro na si ananias ay nag sinungaling sa holy spirit,kasi itoy galing sa diyos..
you can't lie to a mere 'active force'---
walang pinagkaiba yan sa nagkasala sa "batas.".