Topic: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech

[dpogs]

free speech towards religion you mean... you just enter someone's worship service and shout whatever you want...

malinaw ang sinabi ng Art. 133 "... in a place devoted to religious worship or during the celebration of any religious ceremony..." ginawa niya ang gusto niyang gawin sa lugar "devoted to religious worship" at merong nasaktan ang feelings... Celdran clearly violated the law... he did it in a place devoted to religoius worship na kung saan may mga taong nagtestify na nakasakit ng damdamin ang ginawa ni Celdran...

now if Celdran do it outside the vicinity of 'place devoted to religous worship'... hindi siya mapapatawan ng parusa ayon sa Article 133...

Celdran have all the freedom to express his free speech towards religion but he must do it in a proper place and proper time...

i believe Article 133 was created to protect people from stupid people like Celdran... that law created so that people can express their freedom of religion in their place of worship and particular time of worship free from hindrance or disturbance from people like Celdran...

just imagine if Celdran can get away with his idiotic moves... maraming gagaya anyone can just go to any place of worship or celebration and stage a protest disrupting the sacredness and peacefullnes of the event... and he will just invoke his right to freedom of speech towards religion @%@$^#^#$%$@#%$

[leomarley]

I'm actually on the fence with celdran's antics inside the church. It is a private property after all.

[DVD_Freak]

baka naman nadala lang siya sa usapan. from his example in his original post, he gave examples with regards to religion and we are in the Religion section. i think what he means is absolute free speech towards religion.

Well si Klaus na rin naman ang nagbring up ng topics other than religion like free speech sa books, works of art, films, government/govt officials, journalists...

Even dun from the same original post you're referring to, hindi naman talaga exclusive sa religion.  But including religion lang.

Of course, it comes to no surprise that I think they should not exist. No one should HAVE to fear imprisonment if they criticize, mock or ridicule any idea or any person up to and including religion and God especially not in a democracy that guarantees freedom of speech.

[leomarley]

yun lang dun ako di agree regarding ridiculing a person. i'm for ridiculing ideas, philosophy, religion, etc. but i draw the line when ridiculing a person. criticize, yes. ridicule, no.

[jjjeronimo]

Naalala ko nung high school, yung simplified na pag-explain ng pag establish ng government, is the people giving up some of their freedoms in exchange for security, peace and order, etc.  Freedoms can lead to abuse, and may limitations yan lagi, i.e. you should respect the rights of others in the exercise of your freedoms.

Sa case ni Celdran, I am pro-RH, pero di ako agree sa ginawa niya.  Yes, he can always argue about his right to free speech, pero what of the rights of those in the Church to gather and express their religious beliefs? 

Respect is a too way street, i.e. I will respect your beliefs as long as you respect mine, 'ika nga.

[DVD_Freak]

Respect is a too way street, i.e. I will respect your beliefs as long as you respect mine, 'ika nga.

Agree!

[Klaus Weasley]

Idiots.

[DVD_Freak]

Idiots.

Idiots?  Isn't this exactly the kind of absolute freedom of speech you vehemently defend?

[tony]

i'd rather that they start marching, shouting indignation than start shooting....

[jjjeronimo]

Idiots.

And you said you'd defend to the death their right to express themselves? tsk tsk

[Klaus Weasley]

Idiots?  Isn't this exactly the kind of absolute freedom of speech you vehemently defend?

Yes, and I'm using MY freedom of speech to say that they're idiots.

"Freedom of speech" does not mean freedom from criticism or mockery. I disagree with them. They're entitled to their opinions. I have every right to say that their opinions are idiotic. If I say that they should be shot or imprisoned for saying that, then yes, you have a point but I didn't. I just said I think they're idiots. THEY, on the other hand, seem to want imprisonment and even death for people who blaspheme.

[DVD_Freak]

Yes, and I'm using MY freedom of speech to say that they're idiots.

"Freedom of speech" does not mean freedom from criticism or mockery. I disagree with them. They're entitled to their opinions. I have every right to say that their opinions are idiotic. If I say that they should be shot or imprisoned for saying that, then yes, you have a point but I didn't. I just said I think they're idiots. THEY, on the other hand, seem to want imprisonment and even death for people who blaspheme.

So in essence you believe people who practice what you are preaching and defending are idiots.  Of course freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism or mockery.  But it is hypocritical calling them idiots for simply exercising their freedom of speech which you so passionately contend.

[ABCmotorparts]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-magazine-attack/pope-francis-freedom-speech-one-cannot-make-fun-faith-n286631

Pope Francis on Freedom of Speech: 'One Cannot Make Fun of Faith'

Well said,...

[Klaus Weasley]

So in essence you believe people who practice what you are preaching and defending are idiots.  Of course freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism or mockery.  But it is hypocritical calling them idiots for simply exercising their freedom of speech which you so passionately contend.

I'm calling them idiots for what they said. Not for the fact that they're exercising their freedom of speech. The difference is that if I make fun of Mohammed, a lot of them will want me to get shot or imprisoned. That's wrong. For me, no matter how much I disagree or find your opinions or views offensive or abhorrent, I'd never wish you death or prison. I'd mock you, criticize you, make fun of you, call you an idiot, etc. But I'd never wish you death or prison or demand the government throw you in jail and execute you.

And Pope Francis is wrong.

Yes, people SHOULD have the freedom to exercise their faith in peace but people who don't share that faith have an equal right to mock that faith without getting killed or thrown in jail.

[dpogs]

pakiramdam ko na abuse ako noong bata pa ako...

[Hammerheart]

I'm calling them idiots for what they said. Not for the fact that they're exercising their freedom of speech. The difference is that if I make fun of Mohammed, a lot of them will want me to get shot or imprisoned. That's wrong. For me, no matter how much I disagree or find your opinions or views offensive or abhorrent, I'd never wish you death or prison. I'd mock you, criticize you, make fun of you, call you an idiot, etc. But I'd never wish you death or prison or demand the government throw you in jail and execute you.

And Pope Francis is wrong.

Yes, people SHOULD have the freedom to exercise their faith in peace but people who don't share that faith have an equal right to mock that faith without getting killed or thrown in jail.

I completely agree. According to the bible Christ teaches christians to LOVE their enemies. The pope doesn't think that way. So who's side is he?

[dpogs]

if i call homosexual idiot will you let me go to jail? if i mock homosexual will you let me go to jail?

[Klaus Weasley]

if i call homosexual idiot will you let me go to jail? if i mock homosexual will you let me go to jail?

No.

If you beat up or harass a homosexual, yes. If your business discriminates against homosexuals, I will personally lead the campaign (using MY freedom of expression) to have customers boycott your business until you close down OR you stop discriminating against homosexuals. Now before you say I'm violating your freedom of expression, I am not. We are simply presenting/expressing both our opinions/ideas. Letting BOTH our voices be heard and allowing the public at large to decide. THAT'S the essence of free speech.

But I will not be gunning you down or having thrown in jail.

[dpogs]

so... ang ginawa ba ni Celdran justified or not?

[DVD_Freak]

I'm calling them idiots for what they said. Not for the fact that they're exercising their freedom of speech. The difference is that if I make fun of Mohammed, a lot of them will want me to get shot or imprisoned. That's wrong. For me, no matter how much I disagree or find your opinions or views offensive or abhorrent, I'd never wish you death or prison. I'd mock you, criticize you, make fun of you, call you an idiot, etc. But I'd never wish you death or prison or demand the government throw you in jail and execute you.

And Pope Francis is wrong.

Yes, people SHOULD have the freedom to exercise their faith in peace but people who don't share that faith have an equal right to mock that faith without getting killed or thrown in jail.

So what did they say? I seem to get the impression you are generalizing the radical views of those who carried out the attacks as the way of life for those who practice that religion as a whole. In the article you posted, were those Filipinos who were rallying wish people death? Were they encouraging people to bear arms and kill people if their religion is mocked or ridiculed?  I saw several interviews from CNN that as a whole, Muslims abhor the attacks.

[dodie]

tsk tsk tsk.......calling the pope an idiot for he has a different view with regards to faith and religion...... i think its futile for everyone to continue the discussion since the OP will not show respect to someone whose stand is in direct contrast of what he believes in....

if the majority on their community has this same approach on dealing with people, then it myt take an evolution  process for them to be accepted normally. hayyy anarchaic behavior!!

[dpogs]

and will take revenge just like of those radicals but in the form of taking down your business...

and willing to destroy and cause disturbance to the peace and sanctity and sacredness of any worship service...

[DVD_Freak]

Following the Pope's example where you say he is wrong...... if someone says your mother is an idiot for raising a son like you whose disregard even for her own religion simply reflects the kind of mother she is.... you would be ok with that?

[dpogs]

siguro normal na sa hapag kainan nila ang usapang ganito:

Mommy: "Klaus, ano tingin mo kay Pope"
Klaus: "Mommy, your Pope is an idiot and you're an idiot for following that idiot and religion."

[tony]

there is only one idiot in this thread....

because it takes one to know one....

[comet]

Pope is wrong? and who's right? tsk tsk don't like to read things like this

[Nelson de Leon]

pakiramdam ko na abuse ako noong bata pa ako...

Bukod diyan, feeling ko KULANG KA SA PAGMAMAHAL nung maliit ka pa. WALANG pumapansin sa iyo. Baka hindi ka nakatikim ng LOVING HUGS & KISSES nung maliit ka dpogs.

[Klaus Weasley]

Pope is wrong? and who's right? tsk tsk don't like to read things like this

Popes can be wrong. Religious beliefs should NOT be off-limits to criticism and mockery. In saying so, he is almost justifying the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

[comet]

imo, pope francis is on the spot, there should be limitations to expression or else gyera ang labas niyan. Provocation creates tension and the other party may react variably depending on how they view it. So kung meek as a lamb ka,  NR pero kung extremist ka, patayan na.  We are all made to be different, with different views and different reactions.

[WanLu]

Given this example... "It's true that we can't react violently, but, for example if Dr. Gasbarri here, a great friend of mine, says a curse word against my mother, then a punch awaits him," dba parang malinaw naman ang message that the Pope is trying to deliver?

I've been browsing the religion thread for quite sometime now. Observation ko lang is yung mga tao na walang pinaniniwalaan or yung mga mas "open-minded" mas hirap tanggapin yung paniniwala ng iba.