Author Topic: Speaker DIY'ers (Read 307823 times)

tetablanco · « **Reply #1410 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 05:00 PM »

Quote from: Superman on Jul 12, 2015 at 02:36 PM

Atty. Teta, I may be wrong but could it be "break in"?

Hi Jen,
It's not the break-in. During my speakers break-in with my Sovteks, there was an obvious bias towards the mids and highs since the bass was really tight then. However, my speakers broke in very nicely and the bass opened up beautifully when I ran the speakers almost on 24/7 for more than a month (Larry / camoteque suggested that I ventilate the tubes 24/7 with mini fans to prevent overheating.). The sound continues to improve daily. After break-in, I replaced my Sovtek 2A3 power tubes with the PSVane 2A3Bs two weeks ago. Once I used the PSVanes, however, there was a reduction in strength throughout the whole sound spectrum. The sound seemed thinner and lacking in detail. I gave the new tubes a chance to break in but there was no noticeable improvement. While I was using the PSVanes, the soundstage narrowed, sound separation became muddy, and the 3D sound effect and clarity / detail I had immediately noticed when I powered up with the Sovteks was now gone. I also noticed subtle pops and crackles while using the PSVanes. Earlier today, I placed back the Sovteks and it's as if a blanket was lifted from my speakers. The clarity, sound detail, wide soundstage, 3D effects, absence of pops and crackles, etc. all came back with the Sovteks. The PSVanes went back inside the box and I'm a happy camper again.

mykel18 · « **Reply #1411 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 05:14 PM »

tube amp biasing?

tetablanco · « **Reply #1412 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 05:39 PM »

Quote from: mykel18 on Jul 12, 2015 at 05:14 PM

tube amp biasing?

Quote from: mykel18 on Jul 12, 2015 at 05:14 PM

tube amp biasing?

I

Quote from: mykel18 on Jul 12, 2015 at 05:14 PM

tube amp biasing?

Since I'm a newbie to tubes, I had my SE amp checked out by its creator, Master Tony, before and after replacing the tubes to ensure that the biasing was right.. Tony confirmed that everything worked fine. The PSVane's performance would've been fine if I hadn't gotten used to the Sovteks' performance. The difference was most glaring when using content of the highest resolution since there is a noticeable drop in detail, loss of focus, and narrowing of soundstage.

tony · « **Reply #1413 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 06:13 PM »

Quote from: tetablanco on Jul 12, 2015 at 12:35 PM

I noticed a definite improvement when I switched back to my Sovtek 2A3s from my Psvane 2A3Bs. I think the Psvanes over-emphasized the mids - hence, the "shouts". Aside from the lessened shouts, I noticed that the sound seems fuller and rounder with the Sovteks compared to the Psvanes. Also, the subtle pops / crackles from the Psvanes disappeared with the Sovteks. Then again, that's just me and I could've been just imagining things.

give your tubes some time to settle in...
no two tubes are exactly alike, there will be differences no matter how slight...
i will make you a pair of cables to use on your Pasvanes and for you to try.......

Quote from: tetablanco on Jul 12, 2015 at 05:39 PM

Since I'm a newbie to tubes, I had my SE amp checked out by its creator, Master Tony, before and after replacing the tubes to ensure that the biasing was right.. Tony confirmed that everything worked fine. The PSVane's performance would've been fine if I hadn't gotten used to the Sovteks' performance. The difference was most glaring when using content of the highest resolution since there is a noticeable drop in detail, loss of focus, and narrowing of soundstage.

this happens when you have options to try....

i wonder how Shuguangs will fare in this amp, since the amp was designed around them...
looks like i may have to build another 2A3 power amp so we can try those Pasvanes in....

i have a suspicion that these newer tubes are meant to be run differently from the vintage 2A3's old...

camoteque · « **Reply #1414 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 08:54 PM »

Di kaya may problema ang Psvane tubes? Maganda siguro ipatest ito at baka defective? Pwede naman check voltages sa plate and cathode ng psvane tube while the amp is running. What do you think Sir Tony? Or nacheck na, na-miss ko lang sa above post? Di pa ba tayo OT?

Superman · « **Reply #1415 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 09:05 PM »

Try NOS RCA 2A3 instead

tetablanco · « **Reply #1416 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 10:23 PM »

Quote from: Superman on Jul 12, 2015 at 09:05 PM

Try NOS RCA 2A3 instead

Do you have a spare pair lying around, Pare?

tetablanco · « **Reply #1417 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 10:40 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 12, 2015 at 08:54 PM

Di kaya may problema ang Psvane tubes? Maganda siguro ipatest ito at baka defective? Pwede naman check voltages sa plate and cathode ng psvane tube while the amp is running. What do you think Sir Tony? Or nacheck na, na-miss ko lang sa above post? Di pa ba tayo OT?

First things first everyone, sorry for the OT post.

Hi Larry, the PSVanes weren't defective (except for the subtle crackles which was a widely-reported on different audio fora). I guess it's a matter of personal taste but I just find the tone of the PSVanes a bit thin. Call me suspicious but I guess the manufacturers of the PSVane tubes may have decided to come up with so-so tubes for their entry-level line (Hi-Fi line) so that their sales won't eat into their higher-end models (Treasure and WE Lines). In contrast, the manufacturers of Sovtek only produced one line of tubes for the longest time and came up with the Electro-Harmonix line to complement their main Sovtek line (gold-plated pins, white ceramic base, etc.). While both Sovtek and EH are American-owned now, I believe they are still built in the same factories in Russia.

By the way, here's an old article extolling the virtues of the Sovtek 2A3:

http://www.meta-gizmo.net/tri/awards/SovtekTGA.html

tetablanco · « **Reply #1418 on:** Jul 12, 2015 at 10:49 PM »

Quote from: tony on Jul 12, 2015 at 06:13 PM

give your tubes some time to settle in...
no two tubes are exactly alike, there will be differences no matter how slight...
i will make you a pair of cables to use on your Pasvanes and for you to try.......

this happens when you have options to try....
i wonder how Shuguangs will fare in this amp, since the amp was designed around them...
looks like i may have to build another 2A3 power amp so we can try those Pasvanes in....
i have a suspicion that these newer tubes are meant to be run differently from the vintage 2A3's old...

Thanks, Tony! Looking forward to it.

I read somewhere that 2A3Bs are drop-in replacements for 2A3s but that 2A3Cs are not. Since your SE 2A3 amp (which I got from Larry) was originally designed for the 2A3C, I guess it's possible that there might be some incompatibility with the 2A3B. However and since your amp works perfectly with Sovtek 2A3s, compatibility should not be an issue. Because of this, I'm thinking that it's just a performance limitation of the PSVane Hi-Fi line.

Superman · « **Reply #1419 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 01:08 AM »

Quote from: tetablanco on Jul 12, 2015 at 10:23 PM

Do you have a spare pair lying around, Pare?

Unfortunately none Atty. but bro, I will ask around ha

innocent · « **Reply #1420 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 10:41 AM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 12, 2015 at 08:54 PM

Di kaya may problema ang Psvane tubes? Maganda siguro ipatest ito at baka defective? Pwede naman check voltages sa plate and cathode ng psvane tube while the amp is running. What do you think Sir Tony? Or nacheck na, na-miss ko lang sa above post? Di pa ba tayo OT?

Tama.. That was the issue of my friend before with PS Vane.

innocent · « **Reply #1421 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 11:13 AM »

The shouty mid of AN fullrange can be solved by putting some acoutic foam/wool fiber on the front panel of speaker box INTERNAL surrounding fullrange drivers only. Shrek7 already experimented this and was satisfied with the result. I also experimented it with my AN and also satisfied, (just yesterday). BSC is very good with other fullrange drivers. But as per TNT Audio, it has negative effect on the 3D soundstage of AN fullrange drivers, the reason they didn't recommend the notch filter or BSC. Perhaps with other fullrange drivers, BSC will be very beneficial.

innocent · « **Reply #1422 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 11:46 AM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 10, 2015 at 02:30 PM

https://youtu.be/_7dIt2hFxm4

Source is laptop playing spotify. Preamp is aikido loaned from Louie M.

Thanks for looking.

Lupit nito recording ng AN Classic 10 sa 2nd video.

Video pa more.

tony · « **Reply #1423 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 01:10 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 12, 2015 at 08:54 PM

Di kaya may problema ang Psvane tubes? Maganda siguro ipatest ito at baka defective? Pwede naman check voltages sa plate and cathode ng psvane tube while the amp is running. What do you think Sir Tony? Or nacheck na, na-miss ko lang sa above post? Di pa ba tayo OT?

OT na nga...

i hope the distributor of Pasvane in the Philippines chime in and shed some light...
the Shuguangs that i heard with this amp were superb sounding and exceeded my expectations...
and the thing that got me, they both measured exactly alike,
up until then i never imagined China tubes can be that closely matched...

@Teta, please do not pay too much attention on what you read on the internet,
i for one do not pay too much attention to equipment reviews, most of the time the reviewer
sugarcoats, all with the aim of making you part with your hard earned cash....
to me, audition, audition and more audition is the main thing....

camoteque · « **Reply #1424 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 04:10 PM »

Quote from: innocent on Jul 13, 2015 at 11:13 AM

The shouty mid of AN fullrange can be solved by putting some acoutic foam/wool fiber on the front panel of speaker box INTERNAL surrounding fullrange drivers only. Shrek7 already experimented this and was satisfied with the result. I also experimented it with my AN and also satisfied, (just yesterday). BSC is very good with other fullrange drivers. But as per TNT Audio, it has negative effect on the 3D soundstage of AN fullrange drivers, the reason they didn't recommend the notch filter or BSC. Perhaps with other fullrange drivers, BSC will be very beneficial.

The passive eq was placed in between preamp and amp in this set-up. No apparent negative effect on the SQ, IME. For sure at speaker levels aside from effects on SQ there surely would be loss of power because of the additional passive components.

innocent · « **Reply #1425 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 04:17 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 13, 2015 at 04:10 PM

The passive eq was placed in between preamp and amp in this set-up. No apparent negative effect on the SQ, IME. For sure at speaker levels aside from effects on SQ there surely would be loss of power because of the additional passive components.

Indeed. The BSC is different though same function as passive equalizer. However, the video is very good. Galing.

innocent · « **Reply #1426 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 04:28 PM »

Puwedeng puwede ilaban ang SQ nito sa Hi Fi show. Ang saya siguro ng may ari nito. Bro. congrats!
Napaka ayos ng pagkakagawa ni sir Larry at ok ang tweak....

tony · « **Reply #1427 on:** Jul 13, 2015 at 05:33 PM »

BSC is another name for tone control....make no mistake about it...
pre-emphasizes the lows and the highs while attenuating the mids somewhat...
and since this is a passive network, no distortion is introduced, only attenuation...

who's afraid of tone controls? if it does the job, then why not?

innocent · « **Reply #1428 on:** Jul 14, 2015 at 09:17 AM »

Quote from: tony on Jul 13, 2015 at 05:33 PM

BSC is another name for tone control....make no mistake about it...
pre-emphasizes the lows and the highs while attenuating the mids somewhat...
and since this is a passive network, no distortion is introduced, only attenuation...

who's afraid of tone controls? if it does the job, then why not?

Agree.

BSC Circuit Calculator : http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Baffle-Step-Correction-Circuit-Calculator/

BSC Circuit Effect: http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=42

innocent · « **Reply #1429 on:** Jul 14, 2015 at 10:12 AM »

Stuffing the cabinet of your speakers : http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/speaker_design_pt3_getstuffed_e.html

camoteque · « **Reply #1430 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 11:40 AM »

We listened to, again yesterday, to this onken speakers we made several years ago. Horn is a difficult to find Altec 311-90 driven by Altec 291 compression drivers and EV tweeters.

Shown with the rest of the system.

We also tried this low power 4p1L parallel SET made by Sir Tony (pls. see below). Not surprisingly, this amp is sufficient enough to drive these speakers to loud levels.

Love the sense of scale and effortlessness of this horn speakers.

Thanks for looking.

Superman · « **Reply #1431 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 11:51 AM »

Owner is smiling ear to ear as apparently his Leben perfectly matches his speakers!

tony · « **Reply #1432 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 11:54 AM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 20, 2015 at 11:40 AM

We listened to, again yesterday, to this onken speakers we made several years ago. Horn is a difficult to find Altec 311-90 driven by Altec 291 compression drivers and EV tweeters.

Shown with the rest of the system.

We also tried this low power 4p1L parallel SET made by Sir Tony (pls. see below). Not surprisingly, this amp is sufficient enough to drive these speakers to loud levels.

Love the sense of scale and effortlessness of this horn speakers.

Thanks for looking.

narinig na ba ni Lin yan? anong sabi?

camoteque · « **Reply #1433 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 12:59 PM »

Nagulat siya Tony. Kasama si Lin kahapon. Talo ung 2A3 amp ng may-ari pero in fairness medyo mahina na yung RCA tubes nya. Mas balanced tunog ng 4P1L. May 2A3 character din siya. Dahil siguro sa directly heated din ang 4P1L.

camoteque · « **Reply #1434 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:01 PM »

Maganda ang Leben at 12 watts. Pero ang presyo!

tony · « **Reply #1435 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:05 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 20, 2015 at 12:59 PM

Nagulat siya Tony. Kasama si Lin kahapon. Talo ung 2A3 amp ng may-ari pero in fairness medyo mahina na yung RCA tubes nya. Mas balanced tunog ng 4P1L. May 2A3 character din siya. Dahil siguro sa directly heated din ang 4P1L.

would have to agree, these russian tubes are no push-overs and can be giant killers too...

good to know, alam mo naman, i value Lin's critic very much, if he says it is good, then it is good...
please give my regards....btw, i have inquiry for a 300b amp build, so i will be needing your plinth,
same size as the one we used on the 2A3's, paki pm na lang ang price at availability...

Superman · « **Reply #1436 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:06 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 20, 2015 at 01:01 PM

Maganda ang Leben at 12 watts. Pero ang presyo!

YEAH!

edrel sison · « **Reply #1437 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:08 PM »

Quote from: camoteque on Jul 20, 2015 at 11:40 AM

Horn is a difficult to find Altec 311-90

Difficult indeed. I have 1 pc of the 311-90 waiting for a partner. Been sometime for now but no luck..

camoteque · « **Reply #1438 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:45 PM »

Quote from: tony on Jul 20, 2015 at 01:05 PM

would have to agree, these russian tubes are no push-overs and can be giant killers too...
good to know, alam mo naman, i value Lin's critic very much, if he says it is good, then it is good...
please give my regards....btw, i have inquiry for a 300b amp build, so i will be needing your plinth,
same size as the one we used on the 2A3's, paki pm na lang ang price at availability...

No problem Tony.

camoteque · « **Reply #1439 on:** Jul 20, 2015 at 01:47 PM »

Quote from: edrel sison on Jul 20, 2015 at 01:08 PM

Difficult indeed. I have 1 pc of the 311-90 waiting for a partner. Been sometime for now but no luck..

In 10 years makakahanap ka rin. Ha ha.

Ang tagal na ni Lin sa proaudio, ang alam ko wala pang dumaan sa kamay nya na ganyang horn.