Topic: tube vs. ss rectified preamp

[purple heart]

any comments on their difference? which one sounds better? which is more expensive? 

[JojoD818]

any comments on their difference? which one sounds better? which is more expensive? 

it depends... really.

on a technical point of view, a lot of guys don't want ss rectifiers simply becasue they jump to the rated V+ almost instantly unlike tube rectifiers that slowly supplies the voltage. But there is a way (electronically at least) to make ss rectifiers mimic the characteristics of tube rectifiers.

which one sounds better? i built 2 identical tube preamps, one with ss and the other with tube rectifier. the only difference I heard was in the highs, less sibilance for the preamp with a tube rectifier.

of course tube rectifiers are far more expensive than ss rectifiers. 

if you have the money, go all tube. that's just me though. 

[kimpao]

it depends... really.

on a technical point of view, a lot of guys don't want ss rectifiers simply becasue they jump to the rated V+ almost instantly unlike tube rectifiers that slowly supplies the voltage. But there is a way (electronically at least) to make ss rectifiers mimic the characteristics of tube rectifiers.

which one sounds better? i built 2 identical tube preamps, one with ss and the other with tube rectifier. the only difference I heard was in the highs, less sibilance for the preamp with a tube rectifier.

of course tube rectifiers are far more expensive than ss rectifiers. 

if you have the money, go all tube. that's just me though. 

sir,

unti-unti ka na rin nagiging tube convert, ah! Akala ko pa naman hybrid ka. Ahehehehehe Joke Only sir!!!!!!! Fiiiiish Tayooooo!!!!!!

sir purple heart,

i totally agree with sir jojoD818, less siblance for tube rectified plus more natural sounding.

[JojoD818]

sir,

unti-unti ka na rin nagiging tube convert, ah! Akala ko pa naman hybrid ka. Ahehehehehe Joke Only sir!!!!!!! Fiiiiish Tayooooo!!!!!!

sir purple heart,

i totally agree with sir jojoD818, less siblance for tube rectified plus more natural sounding.

Senor Kimpao,

Ang lakas mo manghawa eh! Hahaha 

[Vrion]

Basta ako patingin tingin  at paabang abang lang dun sa all tube preamp...

Na me phonostage 

[arnoldc]

as i posted in the other forum,

if at all we can generalize about rectification, it is the design that matters most. it does not mean that tube is always superior to SS and vice versa. in term of price, ganun din, you will pay for a tube recitifier or solid state fast recovery diodes.

if you don't hear the difference, don't worry about the topology.

i will also take a grain of salt about the previous posting that SS is more sibilant. i believe jojod is talking from experience and i respect that. however, it cannot be generalized too. i have a SS recitified preamp and never sibilant.

[odyopayl]

which one sounds better? i built 2 identical tube preamps, one with ss and the other with tube rectifier. the only difference I heard was in the highs, less sibilance for the preamp with a tube rectifier.

of course tube rectifiers are far more expensive than ss rectifiers. 

if you have the money, go all tube. that's just me though. 

In my experience it's not the the sibilance of high frequency  but more punch on low frequency.

[arnoldc]

of course tube rectifiers are far more expensive than ss rectifiers.

also not to be taken generally...

5U4G costs less than freds or hexfred or ultrafast recovery diodes

[JojoD818]

putting snubber circuits on ss rectifiers reduces the sibilance, and yes the design is what matters most.

[JojoD818]

also not to be taken generally...

5U4G costs less than freds or hexfred or ultrafast recovery diodes

what i was pertaining to is the whole psu. not just the ss diodes and tube diodes.

for ss, a non center tapped trafo is most probably what will be used. for a tube rectifier (such as 5u4g) we need a center tapped trafo, not to mention the heaters for the rectifier tube. 

[JojoD818]

Basta ako patingin tingin  at paabang abang lang dun sa all tube preamp...

Na me phonostage 

Ahahaha, talagang waiting ah.

[Narayan]

if you have the money, go all tube.  

may kilala akong ganito...may scott 222 na, may st 70 pa rin

[JojoD818]

may kilala akong ganito...may scott 222 na, may st 70 pa rin

parang kilala ko din yan ah? 

[kimpao]

parang kilala ko din yan ah? 

Uy! Blind Item nanaman!. Sino kaya yun Palibhasa kasi di pa nakatali kaya kahit ano ang i-uwing gear sa bahay wala sumisita at kumokontra. Ahehehehehehe!!!!!!  

[kimpao]

In my experience it's not the the sibilance of high frequency  but more punch on low frequency.

sir, depends on what rectifier and amp you're using.  in my experience, i was previously using a 5V4 rectifier for my 12 watt amp which sometimes produce rolled-off bass, changed it to a mullard 5ar4. now the 12 watter is producing very nice punch on the low frequency. BTW my other amp, which is a 35 watter also using a mullard 5ar4, somehow is a tad short on what my 12 watter is producing in the bass department.

This is just me, sir.

 

[JojoD818]

Uy! Blind Item nanaman!. Sino kaya yun Palibhasa kasi di pa nakatali kaya kahit ano ang i-uwing gear sa bahay wala sumisita at kumokontra. Ahehehehehehe!!!!!!  

sabi ko na kilala ko yun eh! ahahaha 

[odyopayl]

also not to be taken generally...

5U4G costs less than freds or hexfred or ultrafast recovery diodes

Sir Arnold, just curious is it possible for the tono PA to be tube rectified? I'm thingking that during your design finalization you experiment on the tube rectification versus the ss using ultrafast recovery diodes? I'm satisfied with my Tono but just curious how will it sound on Tube rectifier.

[arnoldc]

"tono PA"?

sorry, but i only know of the tono pre as the ss rectified product we have released. sure it can, by changing the power transformer (cheap) and adding a rectifier, i suggest using 6X4 otherwise, the 5U4G will be mammoth compared to the 12AU7

[arnoldc]

in my experience, i was previously using a 5V4 rectifier for my 12 watt amp which sometimes produce rolled-off bass, changed it to a mullard 5ar4. now the 12 watter is producing very nice punch on the low frequency. BTW my other amp, which is a 35 watter also using a mullard 5ar4, somehow is a tad short on what my 12 watter is producing in the bass department.

sure do, you just increased the B+ of your amplifier. good it's not my amp.

what you heard in sonic difference is the change in operating point, you increased the B+ because 5AR4 has lower voltage drop compared to 5V4. it is not the brand of the tube that made the change as most people will opine. a lot of time people just change tubes here and there not knowing that by doing so changes the operating point.

tube circuits are forgiving, that's why most of the time they work. but depending on the design, it may just be too much for a circuit which could break your tube.

another issue is, the 5AR4 does not like high capacitance on the first cap (it works best with choke loaded, and i personally use 2uF or less). if you placed it in a circuit with a high capacitance first cap, good luck to your mullard.

[s2kov]

Arnold,

Can i say it would be safe to use rectifier tube from a lower to higher voltage drop? Regarding 5AR4, i thought the specs says that maximum 20uF for cap loaded psu is safe. Can you verify?

Thanks....

sure do, you just increased the B+ of your amplifier. good it's not my amp.

what you heard in sonic difference is the change in operating point, you increased the B+ because 5AR4 has lower voltage drop compared to 5V4. it is not the brand of the tube that made the change as most people will opine. a lot of time people just change tubes here and there not knowing that by doing so changes the operating point.

tube circuits are forgiving, that's why most of the time they work. but depending on the design, it may just be too much for a circuit which could break your tube.

another issue is, the 5AR4 does not like high capacitance on the first cap (it works best with choke loaded, and i personally use 2uF or less). if you placed it in a circuit with a high capacitance first cap, good luck to your mullard.

[JojoD818]

what you heard in sonic difference is the change in operating point, you increased the B+ because 5AR4 has lower voltage drop compared to 5V4. it is not the brand of the tube that made the change as most people will opine. a lot of time people just change tubes here and there not knowing that by doing so changes the operating point.

tube circuits are forgiving, that's why most of the time they work. but depending on the design, it may just be too much for a circuit which could break your tube.

another issue is, the 5AR4 does not like high capacitance on the first cap (it works best with choke loaded, and i personally use 2uF or less). if you placed it in a circuit with a high capacitance first cap, good luck to your mullard.

Hehehe, buti na lang hindi nasira yun Mullard!  :'(

[arnoldc]

Arnold,

Can i say it would be safe to use rectifier tube from a lower to higher voltage drop? Regarding 5AR4, i thought the specs says that maximum 20uF for cap loaded psu is safe. Can you verify?

Thanks....

andy, the voltage drop is something you have to be aware of, also the maximum current rating as well as the maximum input voltage rating. when the output voltage changes (low or high), it will change the operating point of the circuit.

true, the 5AR4 has a maximum of 20uF input capacitor.

[s2kov]

salamat po!!!!

andy, the voltage drop is something you have to be aware of, also the maximum current rating as well as the maximum input voltage rating. when the output voltage changes (low or high), it will change the operating point of the circuit.

true, the 5AR4 has a maximum of 20uF input capacitor.

[kimpao]

guys

Hindi masisira yung mullard 5ar4 coz the scott 222-A takes-in 5ar4. its circuit is designed/optimized to take-in such tube  if not, well, i guess that HH Scott is wrong about their specifications.

[arnoldc]

since you mentioned the exact model, i also know its circuit. they limited the first cap to 20uF, in fact no cap in the psu is more than 20uF. and your observation of better bass punch is because it is now back to the right operating point with the 5AR4. the 5V4 made the B+ lower.

[akyatbundok]

kim, swap natin mullard mo sa matsush!ta ko.....

[kimpao]

Ngek!

kim, swap natin mullard mo sa matsush!ta ko.....

[levi]

bump

[ATJr.]

consider these:

1. 1 amp across an mur860 fred will cost you 600 to 1000millivolts or 600 to 1000milliwatts loss!
a 5U4 with an output of say 100mA will cost you 5v@3amp or 15watts plus about 4watts plate loss!, so which one is better?

2. on the transformer side on things, traffo supplying the 5U4 rectifier will always be center-tapped! as against a full-wave bridge for the mur860! a full-wave center tapped traffo will have one leg conducting, per electrical cycle, whereas the full wave bridge uses the traffo winding for the full cycle. thus half of the time half of the center-tapped traffo is doing nothing! therefore, transformer utilisation is better with a full wave bridge than with a center tapped one! a full wave voltage doubler otoh can give even higher voltage and needs only 2 diodes against 4 for the full wave bridge and transformer utilisation is the same as that for the full wave bridge plus voltages on the traffo will be lower. i remember as a child i would put candles on top of transformers and watch those candles melt with glee! LOLZ!!

3. as to which sounds better? i can not see any basis in science to claim that tube rectification sounds better than ss one nor vice-versa. the psu has only one reason for its existence, that is to convert ac to dc with minimal ripple components as possible!

4. imho the best power supplies would be batteries! they have no ripple components to begin with and has a very low internal resistance, but size and costs and practicality will prohibit their use!

[odyopayl]

consider these:

3. as to which sounds better? i can not see any basis in science to claim that tube rectification sounds better than ss one nor vice-versa. the psu has only one reason for its existence, that is to convert ac to dc with minimal ripple components as possible!

4. imho the best power supplies would be batteries! they have no ripple components to begin with and has a very low internal resistance, but size and costs and practicality will prohibit their use!

Hi 2ny, isn't it ideally for DC Power Supply it should be flat line (oscilloscope test) same with batteries? But for audio application (referring to tube Amplifiers)  I'm curious why capacitors rating  are too low? Isn't it by having bigger value capacitors (let say 10Kuf up) would reduce ripple factor?