Topic: 1% THD of Pioneer Receivers

[av_phile1]

Under the more stringent FTC rules, here are some insights on those rules found here:
http://www.soundwise.org/gethelp/specratings.htm

Here are some pertinent insights on those rules.  Highlights mine.   You can then make your own conclusions from these.

2. Before the start of the output tests, the amplifier, whether it be a part of a receiver, integrated amplifier, or separate power amplifier, must be "pre-conditioned" by SIMULTANEOUS OPERATION of ALL channels at one-third its rated power for an hour, using a 1k Hz sine wave. Only after this pre-conditioning are the ratings made!!
This particular requirement is where the headaches and controversy for the manufacturers came into play!! Critics of this requirement argued that, even under the most demanding conditions, a home music amplifier would not have to produce one-third power for an hour while being driven by an uninterrupted sine wave. Operated in this mode, many otherwise excellant amplifiers overheated and their protective systems automatically shut them off!! When that happened, the amplifier flunked the test cycle, and the manufacturer had to then lower the unit's STATED power rating so that at one-third its rated power, it could survive this portion of the test!!

3. With the "pre-conditioning" out of the way, the manufacturer than began the output rating process for the particular amplifier. This is where the amplifier HAD to produce the stated watts-per-channel rating, with all channels driven, and maintain the power rating throughout the frequency range SPECIFIED by the MANUFACTURER.
The importance of this part of the testing is that amplifiers generally deliver maximum power at a mid frequency, such as 1k Hz, and power falls off drastically toward the extremities of the audio spectrum! Under the FTC rules, amplifiers HAD to be able to deliver the stated power at ALL frequencies within their specified bandwidth, NOT just the mid-frequencies!!

Now, even though the manufacturer gets to state the "specified frequency bandwidth, it is the consumer who benefitted from this because even though one amp may be rated at 50 watts per channel at 40-15k Hz, another ramp rated at only 45 wats per channel, BUT from 20-20k Hz would tell the consumer that "something is up" with the first one's rating, and the second one's rating better covered the audio spectrum with its wider range of frequencies!! This also showed that the manufacturer with the wider frequency response in its ratings was being more conservative in its ratings than the other manufacturer was being. This requirement led the manufacturers to generally adopt the "20-20k Hz" rating in order to "hold their own" in the industry and to delineate the "JUNK FROM THE GOOD STUFF" of that time!!


4. Another requirement was that the ratings had to state the load impedance at which the rating was made...normally either 4, 8, or 16 ohms, since these were the general ohm ratings for loudspeakers...and most manufacturers settled into a standard 8 ohm rating for their testing.


5. The FTC also required that the manufacturers also state the MAXIMUM total harmonic distortion produced by the amplifier from 0.25 watts to its FULL RATED POWER for its SPECIFIED BANDWIDTH. Like power ratings, distortion ratings are likely to be superior if measured at mid-frequencies, and less impressive at the high and low-frequency extremes!! All of the above tests had to be carried out in an environment with a temperature of 77 degrees fahrenheit or higher.
Equipment manufacturers were allowed to provide any additional ratings based on other test methods, provided they were"well-known and generally accepted by the industry." BUT, these other ratings had to be displayed LESS PROMINENTLY than the FTC required ratings, IOW set in a much smaller typeface!

[av_phile1]

From the above, the following is clear:

(1)  Because not all amps can survive the preconditioning cycle required by FTC, they can elect to use whatever standard that is more lenient like DIN or EIAJ so they can published what they want to publish in their specs the better to attract customers.

(2)  Measuring power at 1kz will yield a higher power rating.   

(3)  The THD rating of a respectable amp IS the MAXIMUM over that entire bandwidth the amp operates on.  Not averaged. 

(4)  Indicating a THD at 1Khz will yield the most attractive THD figure, if not an average figure,  for purely marketing purposes.  I have always suspected that there are higher THDs at the lower frequency regions as well. 

[av_phile1]

maybe its just a question of following their country's respective regulations, the requirements for disclosure are different between japan's EIAJ and the US FTC.... japanese manufacturers are only required to disclose max power ratings at 1khz while american manufacturers have to follow more stringent rules?

No question about that.  Actually there's another standard many receivers have to comply with.  I think this is the Underwriters Lab or U/L that has something to do with safety.  If I recall right, that is the reason many receivers are rated at 6 ohms, because the heat dissipated under 4-ohms exceed UL requirements for safe operation.  So they had to compromise accordingly or they won't pass UL certification.

[JojoD818]

on the THD topic, (para di tayo OT), i think only NAD and Rotel are truthful when in comes to their THD claims or most of their specs, for that matter.... all the rest... hopia, mani, pop corn at siopao na lang yan....   

gulaman na lang tayo, mas maganda usapan....

It would have been move helpful if we wouldn't be mentioning any brands. Our main concern is THD levels and other specs that could affect a person's decision in buying an amp.

On the gulaman note, I agree! 

[JojoD818]

On a side note.... just knowing these technical stuff doesn't make a person's ability to decide if the amp his eyeing to get is a better amp. AFAIK, I have tried to make things clear and easirer to understand for our fellow members to be aware of what to look for in such products. Knowing these things is just the half of it, the other half is understanding it.


I just hope that all this techno talk is not for nothing. And to see other members learn something very wrong wouldn't help them in any way. Let's try to be accurate and a reliable source of information so that we can shed light to other peoples darkness.

[av_phile1]

It would have been move helpful if we wouldn't be mentioning any brands. Our main concern is THD levels and other specs that could affect a person's decision in buying an amp.

On the gulaman note, I agree! 

In this highly personal and subjective hobby, it is very difficult to isolate the brand from affecting a person's decision in buying.  Disussing THDs and all those techno babbles are purely an academic exercise.  At the end of the day, brand names have a large bearing on a person's choice that is based on his VALUE judgement and perception. 

[av_phile1]

maybe its just a question of following their country's respective regulations, the requirements for disclosure are different between japan's EIAJ and the US FTC.... japanese manufacturers are only required to disclose max power ratings at 1khz while american manufacturers have to follow more stringent rules?

Just to opine further on the point you raised.  Manufacturers are free to follow the measurement standards they want to adopt for a particular market.  If they want to sell in the US, they have to follow the FTC regulations.  If in northern Asia, EIAJ or JETA may be sufficient.  In Europe, DIN or EIC.  In the Philippines, I don't know what standard is mandated, but by reading most of the specs published out there by famous commercial brands, they seem to have ALL the standards : DIN, FTC, EIC, IHF, JETA(new EIAJ).  They have so many different power figures that it can be confusing to the consumer who may have no idea how to interpret those numbers.  Often, they, abetted by similarly  ignorant salesguys, will just pick out the highest rating.  Afterall, that's what the customer wants to hear. 

For me the FTC requirement is strict enough to yield conservative power measurements.  And that is what is observed by many reputable amplifiers many audiophiles have come to cherish over the years.  There is nothing false in the claims of many commercical reeivers as they are valid under varying measurement conditions as may be required by more lenient regulating bodies.  But until a more thorough standard is mandated for multi-channel amps, I see nothing wrong advocating for conservatism in rating an amp's performance.  It provides a level playing field for consumers to compare judiciously.  Brands that don't leave them foisting a promise on the customer that won't be realized.  It can be very sad to bring home a receiver touted to give out 100wpc thinking it is more powerful than your previous 50wpc receiver.  Only to find out it can't, because your older unit was measured conservatively, but the new one was measured at 1khz. 

[JojoD818]

In this highly personal and subjective hobby, it is very difficult to isolate the brand from affecting a person's decision in buying.  Disussing THDs and all those techno babbles are purely an academic exercise.  At the end of the day, brand names have a large bearing on a person's choice that is based on his VALUE judgement and perception. 

I thought we are discussing THD in the assumption that brand/make is not important. In the spirit of science and theory that is. Of course the person buying the amp would decide which is which, regardless of what brand people here like.

I would love to agree with you on how difficult it is to isolate the brand from affecting a person's judgement, but such person that would rely on brand names as a factor for value in decision making clearly has not learned anything from this thread.

I know I'm not alone in this idea but for me, I don't care what brand it is, as long as it performs well (on paper and actual tests) and makes beautiful music then it's a good amp.

[RU9]

the fact remains that Pioneer and many Japanese amp makers can often take the unwary consumers for a ride by publishing trumped up claims that have dubious usefullness in real listening conditions.  Ofcourse you rerely listen at those maxed levels.  Again, that's beside the point.  What if I want to?  If they sell a 100wpc receiver, it's is a 100wpc gear. Correct.  But at 1%THD.  It's an entirely useless specification as you cannot listen to it at that level.  So why specify at that level at all?  So that it can snare unknowing buyers that what they are getting is a 100wpc receiver?  So what's their point advertising a 100wpc gear when it is listenable only up to 90 watts? So they can rightly claim to belong in the league of the 100wpc club?

Compare that to a Rotel or a NAD that claims 100wpc at an audiophile grade 0.03% THD or thereabouts.  That same Rotel or NAD, if they followed the 1% THD measurement condition that Pioneer follows, would most likely yield a figure in the 130+Watts area.  But they are not hyping their products as a 130wpc reciever or amp.  In short, their CONSERVATIVE rating can reasonably satisfy the consumer expectation who may want to listen at 100 watts and not get an ear-fatiguing 1% THD.  In short, their published spec is a promise they can deliver satisfactorily.

 Their hypes are often a disservice to both the consumer as well as to the brand.   That its newer consumer models are power rated at 1% THD seems to be a throwback to the early years of audio. 
 I find that not only a mere marketing hype that use unrealistic measurement condtions to extract the highest possible power ratings, but an insult to the hi-fidelity achievement of the last 20 years. 

  And while there is nothing fraudulent about their inflated claims, it makes me wonder whether supporting a manufacturer that makes such hypes routinely is worth my patronage as a consumer.

You have accused Pioneer of:

1. publishing trumped up claims that have dubious usefullness in real listening    conditions

2. Pioneer giving the spec of  100 watts at 1%THD is an  entirely useless specification

3. Pioneer  hypes are often a disservice to both the consumer as well as to the brand.   
 

My take is that Pioneer  sell the the same models and Europe and publish the spec to prove that they adhere to the DIN standard.

No trumped up claims,  not a a useless specification, not a hype.
 

[jerix]

To answer you Jerix, be reminded of the following basic concepts:

(1) You need 10 times power to double loudness (volume) of a sound. This means if you want to double the loudness you are hearing from your 10watt stereo – you will have to upgrade to 100watt stereo – or perhaps upgrade your speaker with +3dB more sensitivity. See, the 250watter is not even twice as loud as a 30watter or more.

(2) What is your speaker – does it has soft dome / metal dome / or no dome at all – is it boomy / no bass / hard to drive – hi sensitivity.

(3) Are you using expensive speaker cable that are normally high in capacitance – or ordinary audio-grade speaker cable.

(4) Some of my research indicated that amps basically will sound the same because their goal is typically the same – to reproduce the audio frequency as faithfully as possible (theoretically). However, this is contrary to reality (practical terms), thus, some audiophile tended to prefer an amp over the other – thinking that is a better amp. But the real crux of the matter is that amplifiers react to different speakers (plus speaker cable - this being inductive, resistive and capacitive variables). Actual testing reveal real performance.


So in my case, I have an 8.3 at fairly 86dB sensitivity rated at 100W – textile (soft dome). I use ordinary audio-grade cable. Thus at 10Watt level, I have my 8.3 at half level loudness already. Would I want to drive it more than that? Perhaps. I will not attempt to load it close to 100W as it is the rated capacity of the speaker. Typically, a 25-watter up to about 75watts is enough for this type of speaker. How much less will it be if it is a 95-dB speaker that you have.

Also, it is the speaker that should dictate what amp to use, not the other way around. Meaning, choose your speaker first – siyempre yung gusto mo na. And when you bought one, find the amp suitable for your speaker. You have the above that gave you guidelines. This time, the amp.

Check amplifier rating – how many watt at what impedance and at what distortion. If an amplifier has published THD of less than 1% in 25Watt minimum – then this is a candidate for audition (power wise). So take for example my RX-V630 – 75wpc at .06% THD into 8 ohms. So the Pioneer, 100Wpc at 1%THD into 8ohms – what I do here is get the half (so it is 50watt), and this is safe assumption this gear is less than 1%THD in 50W – so is also a candidate. Some gears do publish specs like my Kenwood – 68Wpc at .1% THD (yata) and 80wpc at 10%THD into 6ohms. From this, you may note that the power with less 1%THD is higher than the half power point of 40watt (in fact 68watts). So Pioneer would arrive in about 85wpc with less than 1%THD.

You may have heard some people say when they audition the amp – it is forward, laid back, makalansing, mabass – pero they did not describe the condition of their ears. This is short of saying – you must audition your amp with your speaker – torture test it with varied frequency (using your favorite familiar CD using different tracts and different genre of music that you are listening to) and make sure your ears are wide open to note that what you are hearing is in fact what you wanted to hear in an amp.

The THD thingie should have its consideration at an acceptable typical listening power only – 25w to about 75w. If you develop deafness or angry at your neighbor – go ahead, indulge in 100Watts or more. Of course, 100watts or more has some reason – if your speaker is low sensitivity or hard to drive – but then again, high power may not always be the trick for hard-to-drive speakers – the right choice of an amplifier is, THD will not help you here – and this is gained by experience – not much reading the specs. Nowadays, the hard-to-drive speakers are the one sounding very good – but some have rather low sensitivity. THD does not matter at all if you are already enjoying the sound from the synergy of your system.

Do you believe rockers are serious audiophiles? They are usually the ones demanding for high power! You don’t need distortion issue on their amp IMHO. I think their music is basically it.

I hope this helps you doing amplifier hunting the practical way – theoretical specs reading is also good – at least for my comfort room activity. 

My advise – don’t shoot your feet. 

Bro aHobbit thnx for these tips-- But most of the time it boils down to listening preference and satisfaction..at least from what ive gathered here, i should not worry so much now about the THD because as i have said im not actually getting any 1% of that from the way i use my amp.

When i get that amp i considered primarily the 11 big speakers i have in the house i want to use all of them so i scouted for an amp that can more or less drive them all, because that means satisfaction to me. As to speaker cables, i only use the generic 14 gauge size. I borrowed an exotic cable once from a friend but comparing that with my generic cable i cant detect a wide difference in terms of the quality of sound i hear. Maybe its because I dont have an acoustically treated listening room to hear the difference, or the exotic cable is not actually a good match with the pioneer amp, etc.--

ive asked about the factors that we have to be concerned on but after a while, it seems to me that on my case THD is really the least that i should worry about .

 

[RU9]

(4)  Indicating a THD at 1Khz will yield the most attractive THD figure, if not an average figure,  for purely marketing purposes.   

The spec  is a standard, it is not for marketing purposes.

If they want to sell in the US, they have to follow the FTC regulations.  If in northern Asia, EIAJ or JETA may be sufficient.  In Europe, DIN or EIC.

[RU9]

ive asked about the factors that we have to be concerned on but after a while, it seems to me that on my case THD is really the least that i should worry about .

Correct ka dyan sir,  OK na OK iyong Pioneer. The  100 watts at 1%THD simply says that they adhere to the DIN standard popular in Europe.

Do noy pay attention to this.

This crass commercialism do look like just a numbers game.  The higher they are, the more unwary customers to capture.  But they all fly in the face of judicious rating for a more level-playing field of competing products for the benefit of consumers.

[aHobbit]

"How to Become An Audiophile?" perhaps, this is a better topic for discussion here... you might want to start it coz I don't exactly know what an "audiophile" means and perhaps if you could define it with authority, I might have an idea on where to lead you... 

Xactly! 

Thus this glorified THD thingie by avphile1 to be of audiophile grade will now go to trashcan since your proposed thread should clear up first what he meant of audiophile grade!

Bigla humaba tong thread na to ah! 

[aHobbit]

One must be serious and crazy.... 

 

[aHobbit]

On a side note.... just knowing these technical stuff doesn't make a person's ability to decide if the amp his eyeing to get is a better amp. AFAIK, I have tried to make things clear and easirer to understand for our fellow members to be aware of what to look for in such products. Knowing these things is just the half of it, the other half is understanding it.


I just hope that all this techno talk is not for nothing. And to see other members learn something very wrong wouldn't help them in any way. Let's try to be accurate and a reliable source of information so that we can shed light to other peoples darkness.

I hope many readers of this thread can now have the balance of being objective and subjective - and will now better correlate the specs out in the market against real-world scenario of their total sound system.

[aHobbit]

You have accused Pioneer of:

1. publishing trumped up claims that have dubious usefullness in real listening    conditions

2. Pioneer giving the spec of  100 watts at 1%THD is an  entirely useless specification

3. Pioneer  hypes are often a disservice to both the consumer as well as to the brand.   
 

My take is that Pioneer  sell the the same models and Europe and publish the spec to prove that they adhere to the DIN standard.

No trumped up claims,  not a a useless specification, not a hype.
 

My point xactly!

avphile1 point is not about the 1%THd of pioneer - and I still see he still did not get his point being raised in the thread - and another one joined the fray - with graver accusation against all the rest of the brands  . His issue is that Pioneer is not truthful, misinforming, hyping without basis, their products.

Kailangan pa bang imemorize ito?

[aHobbit]

Bro aHobbit thnx for these tips-- But most of the time it boils down to listening preference and satisfaction..at least from what ive gathered here, i should not worry so much now about the THD because as i have said im not actually getting any 1% of that from the way i use my amp.

When i get that amp i considered primarily the 11 big speakers i have in the house i want to use all of them so i scouted for an amp that can more or less drive them all, because that means satisfaction to me. As to speaker cables, i only use the generic 14 gauge size. I borrowed an exotic cable once from a friend but comparing that with my generic cable i cant detect a wide difference in terms of the quality of sound i hear. Maybe its because I dont have an acoustically treated listening room to hear the difference, or the exotic cable is not actually a good match with the pioneer amp, etc.--

ive asked about the factors that we have to be concerned on but after a while, it seems to me that on my case THD is really the least that i should worry about .

 

My last tip to you Jerix:

Consider the following -
  Rotel 100wpc at .06%THD into 8ohms - price 35,000
  Yamaha 75wpc at .06 THD into 8ohms - price 20,000
  Pioneer 100wpc at 1% THD into 8 ohms - price 17,000
  NAD 50wpc at .1%THD into 8 ohms - price 30,000

Different people will look at the above options.
The richie may buy the Rotel or NAD - may dating  .
The internet reader will buy yamaha kasi always best for HT daw .
The others may buy pioneer kasi subok na ng lolo nila and brand  .
Siyempre, 'yung ibang marunong makinig - will audition them all.

what is the difference with the options in terms of power? Lets level Pioneer - at about 85wpc into less than 1%THD - kasi sabi ni avphile1, basta less than 1% - audiophile grade daw - o sya 85wpc si Pioneer.

Final correlation: NAD - 50wpc, Yamaha 75wpc, Pioneer 85wpc, Rotel 100wpc

In numbers (paper specs) Rotel is 2x as much power as NAD. But this does not mean Rotel will make sound twice as much. In real world, the loudness level of Rotel is not really far from NAD - remember, it takes 10x as much power for you to double the loudness of sound. Thus, in buying your next gear, this wattage differences is very miniscule in the real world listening - in fact when I look for a sound system - these amplifier ratings is basically on the same level of power rating. ALso, in this regard, headroom issue is more usable than THD if performance (paperwise) is an issue.

This makes my CR reading a fun, because many buyers bought their gears because it has 10 watts more power, or 30 watts more power blah blah on a given THD.

Paper specs is very important if you know how to correlate/translate them in real world scenario. If not, the same paper specs can mislead you - buying something that is really nothing.

O bati bati na tayo  .

merry christmas. 

[arthurallanj]

I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm mentally better armed these days when it comes to choosing amps. I may or may not be able to base my decisions on these someday, but at least, I sure know what I got. Yeah, I'm still a Yamaha fan, but these days, I don't really consider the JETA rating on the Manual, I consider the full bandwidth rating. Knowledge is power ika nga ni Ernie Baron. And like power, it's up to you on how you decide to use it. You also decide if you wanna go technical, or if you wanna go occhial. I just don't think there's a need for judgemental remarks. I humbly implore all of you my brothers.


"Everybody has talent, what is rare is the courage to follow it to the dark road where it leads"

[losi_phile]

Consider the following -
  Rotel 100wpc at .06%THD into 8ohms - price 35,000
  Yamaha 75wpc at .06 THD into 8ohms - price 20,000
  Pioneer 100wpc at 1% THD into 8 ohms - price 17,000
  NAD 50wpc at .1%THD into 8 ohms - price 30,000

FYI.  Here's the specs of Pioneer VSX-D509S (Product Year is 2001):

Continous average power output of 100watts* per channel, min., at 8 Ohms, from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz with no more than 0.2%** Total Harmonic Distortion (Fronts only).

* Measured pursuant to the Federal Trade Commission's Trade Regulation rule on Power Output Claims for Amplifiers.

** Measured by Audio Spectrum Analyzer

AHobbit,

How about the specs of my Pioneer, galing kasing U.S.,  iba yata ang standard.  How would you compare them sa mga nasulat mo sa price na...ahem...less than 12k?

What would be VSX-D811S's rating if you would put its THD at 0.06%.

[jerix]

What would be VSX-D811S's rating if you would put its THD at 0.06%.


to answer this, i am reposting the pertinent portion of PIONEERS response to my query on the 1%THD of the VSX 811s.

I am afraid that you are greatly mistaken. Pioneer's AV Receivers perform much better than what you mentioned at 1% THD. The 1% THD is the condition for rating power measurement. That specification (100W  @ 1% THD) for rated power means that our product can get 100W rated output power at 1% THD distortion condition.

Regarding the distortion (THD) specification for VSX-D811S-S, its THD specification is less than 0.09% at 90W output power, and the actual reading can get around 0.02% at 90W output power. On the whole, in case of product specification, Pioneer receiver can get high specification.

[JojoD818]

I hope many readers of this thread can now have the balance of being objective and subjective - and will now better correlate the specs out in the market against real-world scenario of their total sound system.

Now that is exactly what the heck I was trying to do for the past few days in this thread! 

[kimpao]

Question mga people,  Do you base your audio equipment purchases on what is on paper (specs)? Or do you base it on the gear's actual performance(auditioning)? Is this 1% THD thingy audible or not? Is it an advantage or not?

just curious.

[JojoD818]

"Everybody has talent, what is rare is the courage to follow it to the dark road where it leads"

It is true what you say, but if the talent (or knowledge in this case) is wrong, then it would lead us nowhere.

As I read this thread from the start, it has been reiterated that nobody is imposing decision on anyone, just giving knowledge and info that is critical in choosing amps. And as it happens, some of the knowledge being shared is inaccurate and false, something I cannot take, and so I joined the discussion. And you know why? Because my knowledge can be wrong and false too, but as my know how on this field is not just based on what amps I own, or have owned, but what I have actually measured and because I also study them.

When I was young (in grade school), I built an amp based on a kit. I learned a lot but I never learned how the amp works, and so I said to myself, I'll never stop studying until I know what makes this things work. What makes it good and waht makes it worse.

[JojoD818]

Question mga people,  Do you base your audio equipment purchases on what is on paper (specs)? Or do you base it on the gear's actual performance(auditioning)? Is this 1% THD thingy audible or not? Is it an advantage or not?

just curious.

I think some of the people here depend their decision making on amps with the brands. The better the brand the better the amp. Most of the comparisons made were from expensive amps or what most of them consider as hi-end.

As for the 1% audible or not, one has to have a built-in oscilloscope in their ears I guess. 

[rony]

ano ba yang 1% THD na yan. Matagal ko na gamit pioneer receiver ko okey naman ang sound niya almost 4 years na ito. Mali ba nabili ko unit o me depekto na hindi ko alam?

[jcob]

sino pa bang memebr dito sa pinoydvd ang hindi nag po-post dito???

Sikat na sikat na Pioneer ah..... partida yan 1% THD pa ha.

cheers to all....

[jerix]

Question mga people,  Do you base your audio equipment purchases on what is on paper (specs)? Or do you base it on the gear's actual performance(auditioning)? Is this 1% THD thingy audible or not? Is it an advantage or not?

just curious.

To be frank, unless you resort to some other means to know, these important details, like this THD level can only be seen on the equipment's manual and most establishment dont usually let you open the plastic sealed manual unless u assure them to buy the product. Sometimes the thing "READ FIRST BEFORE YOU BUY" which concerns knowing all the specs of the product is more often not really close to being real.  So most often we just have to rely on the limited info-- something like "120 w RMS x 6," which in the first place is true but actually subject to conditions.

Actual performance of the gear i think is best if you have time to audition. the problem is, only few of us can actually discern the quality of the gear in a very limited time. The likes of Bro Kimpao can discern the goodness of the audio amp in just the first 5 notes of the
music, because i believe he is well-initiated. -- but how many in our population is like him?

Is 1% THD audible? -- to some ears YES ... but that 1 % THD is only true if u pump a 100 power from the amp, at least based on the conditions being discussed here. Most of us, i believe has yet to reach that level of listening - so that the 1% THD is actually a monster only under a certain condition.--  

[akyatbundok]

Question mga people,  Do you base your audio equipment purchases on what is on paper (specs)? Or do you base it on the gear's actual performance(auditioning)? Is this 1% THD thingy audible or not? Is it an advantage or not?

just curious.

para sa akin senyor kimpao, it's a little bit of everything: i read the user manual for features and quirks... i read reviews (mostly consumer reviews and a little bit of magazine reviews) to check if anybody has experienced any flaws with it... i look for a picture of the back for connectivity options.... and whenever possible i also check published specs to see if there might be problems using it with my current gear, wouldn't want to be underpowered di ba?  or to see >10% distortion figures which are common in PMPO fine-print...  or impedance mismatch with my speaker, etc.... etc.... etc.

but..... i can do just as well without reading the specs if the audition was convincing enough.

its just a small part of the process of elimination to narrow down one's choices, which might include:

1)  reading reviews
2)  reading specs
3)  browsing audio forums
4)  audition at the store
5)  asking friends & gurus
6)  usyoso sa listening session
7)  or once in a while just plainly buying something on a whim
  or maybe i just happen to like it

BTW, the brand and looks also have a bearing because down the road we might be looking to upgrade so re-sale value is also important.

[kimpao]

pero senyor akyat (salamat dun sa gulaman last saturday  ), is this 1% THD thingy audible?     

[akyatbundok]

senyor, meron ako nung Sheffield Lab "My Disc" Test CD...... there are a few test tracks that exhibit 1% 3% up to 10% distortion...... for comparison purposes, maybe we should do a listening session to see if it's audible?  last time i played it was years ago, at that time i actually have difficulty detecting the difference between the reference track and the 3% distortion, but i think some of you might be able to.