Author Topic: Which way to go, analog or digital? (Read 24330 times)

audi0slave · « **Reply #30 on:** Oct 03, 2004 at 12:10 AM »

my preference of the digital formats doesn't mean i haven't had the chance to own TTs and LPs. i used to enjoy those gears in my childhood and teenage days when listening to Led Zep, Queen, Alice Cooper, Kiss, Yardbirds, Eric Clapton and The Who can only be had on vinyls and carrying LPs at school became a fad and a status symbol. but just like any fad, it has to die so i discarded all of them in college when the digital formats became increasingly popular. and i see myself and the other digital advocates as the more blessed guys for we have seen the light at an early age .... and we can still enjoy music without indulging into extra time, effort and money.

kimpao · « **Reply #31 on:** Oct 03, 2004 at 10:20 AM »

I still very much enjoy cds. Best of both worlds ika nga ni atty JulsP! Most of the time you can't find a certain album in such format kaya you end up resulting to the other, minsan naman mas maganda yung album kesa dun sa isang format. may trade offs talaga.

Quote from: audi0slave on Oct 02, 2004 at 11:42 PM

in short, fingerin mo lang yung remote at mag-eenjoy kana unlike with LPs, magkakanduduling ka pa umasinta just to play a single track.

Atty, para sa akin depende naman sa mood ko. Pag feeling on the "GO" ako, "atat na atat" at "aksyon" kaagad ang hinahanap, sa cd. Pero kung gusto ko munang "humimas" at mang "romansa", ng..................................................plaka, lamesa naman.

Quote from: audi0slave on Oct 02, 2004 at 11:42 PM

eh paano kapag lasing ka at gusto mong makinig ng music - pampatulog o pampababa ng tama?

Ay syempre! Sa aksyon kaagad! CD!!!...........

Pero attorney kung marunong ka naman mag-mix, eh di mag-scratch ka na sa TT, enjoy ka pa!......

Audioboy · « **Reply #32 on:** Oct 03, 2004 at 06:47 PM »

Quote from: audi0slave on Oct 02, 2004 at 11:42 PM

but that would take much of one's precious time

i agree. after all, we do waste time every time we listen to music. but here is a question.......is it worth the waste? if you think playing vinyl compensates all that time and effort.....that answers it!

personally, whenever i find myself listening to my setup, i would devote 70% of my time listening to my cds and 30% to my vinyls. im more into cds because most of the songs i like are in a CD format and maybe because of convinience. let me tell you this, the bulk of the enjoyment i find in music comes from the 30%. a good vinyl often gives me goose bumps. everytime i play vinyl, i still keep telling myself......."iba talaga plaka tumunog"........buhay na buhay! once you begin enjoying the sound of a vinyl, youll forget about the ticks and pops.

audioslave,

i am more intrigued if what would be the answer of the guys here if the question were: "can you give up your cd player in the name of TT?"

ako.........hindi ko kaya! will throw my TT but not my cd player.

gusto ko may cd player ako kahit na mas gusto ko tunog ng vinyl.

odyopayl · « **Reply #33 on:** Oct 04, 2004 at 12:50 PM »

Attorney, if i have this....
http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2004/frk_showstop2.shtml
WHY NOT?

arnel90 · « **Reply #34 on:** Oct 04, 2004 at 08:04 PM »

Quote from: akyatbundok on Oct 01, 2004 at 06:32 PM

kinda begs the question: instead of having a TT worth 15k + a CDP worth 15k, would it be better instead to upgrade the CDP to a higher-end model worth 30k?

a properly set up 15k TT beats the hell out of a 60k tube cdp

H a n $ · « **Reply #35 on:** Oct 04, 2004 at 08:22 PM »

will go for both also.. but notice even without convenience of remote, sellect tracks, repeat LP still rocks its the punas, adjusting and etc that gives TT lovers the excitement and gallore..

edboy7 · « **Reply #36 on:** Oct 04, 2004 at 08:39 PM »

just found this one

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/turntabletest_e.html
i go for the cd but i heard some TT set ups before iba tlaga

fresh na fresh ang tunog

tinalo cd copies ko

sabi nga ni broder audioslave, cleaning LPs etc eats up time e madalas nasa ofis pa naman ako minsan ala pa uwian, so it would very convinient(rewarding na rin) just to plug and play then sitback and relaks

, hirap di n makahanap ng LP titles na gusto ko, parang lahat sila "hard to find" na

yun lang po

andaleon · « **Reply #37 on:** Oct 04, 2004 at 10:40 PM »

"a properly set up 15k TT beats the hell out of a 60k tube cdp "

A 15K CDP beats the hell out of a 60K TT!

The same way if you pay attention to setting up your digital playback you can get so much music out of it!

The problem with some vinyl guys (not all!) is that they totally shunned away digital playback! They recall how CD's sounded 12 years ago- when, well CD sucked! Some have CD players but they don't give it the same attention as they do their vinyl.

Let's forego the debate on which is more musical. Digital is more convenient and a lot more choices in software!!! AND ADD DVD CONCERTS TO THAT! And let us not even mention SACD and DVD-Audio.

With the current crop of concert DVD's musical concerts, you get double wammy! You see and you hear it! and And these DVD's are getting out more than they are pressing LP's

That is march towards being there- at the actual recording event!!!!! That's what true musical lovers strive for- TO BE THERE AT THE ACTUAL EVENT.

Analog will never give you that treat of seeing it and hearing it. You can close your eyes and imagine that the performer is there.

Analog is not going anywhere anymore. As soon as these current crop of vinyl lovers die out (we all do), it will die out too. What's on the horizon for digital? One can only imagine.

If you have a collection of vinyl, go ahead love it and cherish it! Some of those music will never be printed again.

If you are starting a music collection, I suggest look into digital.

Digital is the present and the future!

Audioboy · « **Reply #38 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 09:05 AM »

Quote from: be976 on Oct 04, 2004 at 08:04 PM

a properly set up 15k TT beats the hell out of a 60k tube cdp

agree.

iceman90a · « **Reply #39 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 09:15 AM »

Quote from: JulsP168 on Oct 05, 2004 at 09:05 AM

agree.

disagree

you need to consider the price of the phono stage, the phono cables & the cart...

makes the price disparity a little less convincing

odyopayl · « **Reply #40 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 09:16 AM »

Quote from: andaleon on Oct 04, 2004 at 10:40 PM

If you have a collection of vinyl, go ahead love it and cherish it! Some of those music will never be printed again.

If you are starting a music collection, I suggest look into digital.

Digital is the present and the future!

Well said Andaleon, I't's not good to invest on a turntable if you don't have your own huge collection. I can't imagine to spend 10K ++ for a stylus and i will just use it to play a second hand or third...etc. vinyl? I remember what I've read on "Sterophile" magazine: " How do you make a $500 turntable sound like $5K...."Well spend 5K".

Honestly I've heard a good turntable worth $20K it's sound so good...so real! Idon't even recognized it's a vinyl! But I've heard also a good CD player ...A reference CD transport (Air bearing) ...... a Trivista(Musical Fidelity) DAC and KPW (Musical Fidelity) Preamp....if you have this set-up I'm pretty sure you will forgot vinyl!!!!

kid · « **Reply #41 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 09:45 AM »

For me, i love digital because of its playability and convenience. Isa pa, wala pa kong TT eh

arnel90 · « **Reply #42 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 10:50 AM »

Quote from: andaleon on Oct 04, 2004 at 10:40 PM

"a properly set up 15k TT beats the hell out of a 60k tube cdp "

A 15K CDP beats the hell out of a 60K TT!

Let's forego the debate on which is more musical. Digital is more convenient and a lot more choices in software!!! AND ADD DVD CONCERTS TO THAT! And let us not even mention SACD and DVD-Audio.

Analog is not going anywhere anymore. As soon as these current crop of vinyl lovers die out (we all do), it will die out too. What's on the horizon for digital? One can only imagine.

If you have a collection of vinyl, go ahead love it and cherish it! Some of those music will never be printed again.

If you are starting a music collection, I suggest look into digital.

Digital is the present and the future!

i still need to hear one 15k cpd sounding better than a 60k TT

when the first cd came out, that's what they all said, the end of the era for the LP, yet there are more and more TT that are coming out in the market and new LPs are even pressed.

i only started seriously collecting music recently, and i am very happy that i have chosen the analog route, little as it maybe, it always brings a smile whenever i play it.

yes digital is definitely improving, maybe when i can't cue on a record because of some old crippling sickness, then i could consider the digital media, but i hope by that time it already has reached its peak of improvement (what's the use of collecting cds now that you can't play on a futuristic digital player?) and more importantly have the moolah also to spend on those megabucks high resolution digital hardware and software.

iceman90a · « **Reply #43 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 11:53 AM »

Quote from: be976 on Oct 05, 2004 at 10:50 AM

(what's the use of collecting cds now that you can't play on a futuristic digital player?)

again i disagree

even the latest sacd and dvd players have backward compatibility, meaning they can play regular CD's and show an improvement in the sound reproduction. think of what the future players could do

besides - we should also learn from analog users who ditched their lp's in the advent of cd's... who would have thought that turn table technology would still progress? linear tracking, unipivot, etc. if you sell your cd's now to go analog i'm sure you'll know how those others who sold their lp's before to go CD are feeling right now

bottom line for me is the music - play what you want to hear, on what you have

andaleon · « **Reply #44 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 12:20 PM »

Iceman is right!

Any futuristic digital player can be backward compatible to play CD's.

andaleon · « **Reply #45 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 12:33 PM »

"when the first cd came out, that's what they all said, the end of the era for the LP"

That was jumping the gun a little bit too early.

When CD's first came out, it really did sound awful compared to my TT. Hated the freaking CD's! I asked, is this progress, supposedly?

But then progress did happen and CD's have long been re-born! However, a lot of TT lovers got locked in to that notion that CD sucked. It did, but not anymore!

Yes, LP's continue to be pressed and produced but that is miniscule compared to the volume of digital media coming out.

I think most of vinyl lovers only love the exclusivity of vinyl playback. It's not common- not banal. It has a snob appeal- which is a true and tried marketing strategy.

arnel90 · « **Reply #46 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 01:11 PM »

backward compatibility, maybe so, but this new digital hardware is optimized with the newer digital media.

there's no question about the ease and convenience of digital, but experiencing music differently in analog is the reason why i have chosen said path.

i think its the other way around, digital fanatics look down on the old school analog, people who doesn't want to accept the future. for me there's still no digital media that can sound as good as analog, maybe there is already, but i can't afford it right now.

so like iceman said, enjoy the music on whatever media you have.

akyatbundok · « **Reply #47 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 03:04 PM »

sometimes there can be too much loyalty to a format or technology, that we limit ourself to the side we've chosen, we "exclusive-or" the choices to: LP xor CD, SACD xor DVD-A, Audio xor HT.

mabuhay ang mga balimbing!

seriously, i must admit that the budget (or lack of it) forces us to choose sides.

jcob · « **Reply #48 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 03:49 PM »

I'll go for both.

I will listen to music that I have base on the following.

I will play CD if (1) If I don't have that kind of music on my few LP collection. (2) If the CD copy sounds better than the vinyl copy. (3) if I want to listen, leave it playing and at the same time do something else.

I will listen to my very few vinyl collection if (1) It sounds better than my CD copy (2) I have time to listen only and not do anything else. (3) If I want to impress somebody who does'nt even know what an LP looks like.

I must admit, there are some vinyls that does sounds like more of a CD, and there are CDs that sound like more of a vinyl.

But that's just me.

krets pulpol · « **Reply #49 on:** Oct 05, 2004 at 08:05 PM »

here's my take.

i would agree with the others having both analog and digital. this is a sticky topic even from audiophile forums from other countries. it is similar to tube vs. solid state users each with their own pros and cons. vinyl lps are difficult to finds these days but still available not obsolete. you have to rake old specialty stores or source it outside the country. for cds, it has become the standard format in the last decade so you can find most titles locally except hard to find ones of course. sacds and dvd-audios are still in dispute over the future of music format until now. so i guess the cd would still be the common format in the coming years or so.

in terms of resolution, our cds have improved from the 80s but still the average bit rate would be 16 bit unless they are hdcds or xrcds. analog lps maintain the same audio quality and near lifelike music (very natural).

here's the question, did you notice most audio enthusiasts are getting back to tube amplification? i guess this is true with turntables also. you won't see new turntable products today if analog has gone obsolete. you won't see a sophisticated-looking belt driven turntable right now if the development has stopped.

i wouldn't be surprised if i see "system of a down","audioslave" or "red hot chili peppers" vinyl lps today. even metallica is releasing a limited "vinyl box" of old albums in 180 gram audiophile quality vinyls.

in terms of maintenance and transport capability, cds would remain the popular choice. you wouldn't think of an lp player/changer in your car would you hahaha

i guess to each is own, i wouldn't dispose my cds for practical reasons but now i have stopped buying. my previous purchases have been vinyl lps. i'm going backwards so sue me

my two cents only

audioslave · « **Reply #50 on:** Oct 06, 2004 at 03:01 PM »

Quote from: JulsP168 on Oct 03, 2004 at 06:47 PM

audioslave,

i am more intrigued if what would be the answer of the guys here if the question were: "can you give up your cd player in the name of TT?"

ako.........hindi ko kaya! will throw my TT but not my cd player.

gusto ko may cd player ako kahit na mas gusto ko tunog ng vinyl.

you're right... just like you and most sane people out there who loves music, we'd rather live without a turn table but not without a CD Player.

digital is our link to the future but there's nothing objectionable about rekindling the past and liking your music coming from analog sources. for them, it's their own distinct and special way of finding satisfaction, enjoyment and happiness brought about by the sounds of the ticks and pops, the calibrations inherent with aligning the stylus to realize its maximum potentials, the brushing of the LPs, all the effort expended on removing dusts on the grooves and the cuing of the tonearm and spotting the widest space on the grooves to land the stylus - that's all part of the silliness we have in every hobbies we take. in my case, my own silly way of enjoying music is just sitting down while listening and doing nothing after the disk had been plugged to play. but to impress upon us that going analog is the path to a better music life or the road to take if you're a music lover is simply preposterous and a perverted conclusion. we do appreciate the fullness and richness of the music coming from analog sources but as technology finds its way to the future, the perceived gap on the superiority of the analog vinyls over the digital formats is slowly being narrowed down by the presence and availability of newer formats like HDCDs, XRCDs, DVD-As and SACDs, which if played on equally competent players - would sound just as pleasingly analog.

well, that's just me... and i'm not an audiophile but a mere audioslave and not being an audiophile means i'm not nuts...

Dracula · « **Reply #51 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 06:19 PM »

Maybe somebody will release a multi format player with a turntable on top! hehe

there were comments from a hifi magazine that the new digital formats are just not revolutionary enough to warrant a jump on the SACD and DVDA band wagon they are predicting that we are stuck with the CD format for a few more years.....To put it in the writers words "the new digital formats just aren't sexy enough"....

I think with the presence of real good value turntables like the goldring gr-1...people can get a taste of the analog experience without selling their digital gears...and in the end having a little of both worlds...

bayonic · « **Reply #52 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 06:47 PM »

i guess i am in the majority<?> who prefers " a little bit of both worlds " ...

reasons i bought a turntable ?
because i started buying used LPs again .
because i found a nice,cheap entry level TT

reasons i started buying LPs again ?

... theyr'e dirt cheap.
... for the art work
... nostalgia
... preparing for my retirement , when i'll have all the time in the world to play my LP collection

the bad thing about playing LPs as has already been mentioned is that you have to get up everytime you change disc or track or sides ...
the good thing about this bad thing though is that it forces you to listen to the entire album ... and i have discovered several previously unknown songs this way.

i still buy new CDs but I don't think I will be buying those outrageously priced re-released new vinyl LPs. < well maybe one or two for comparison purposes

>

synchro · « **Reply #53 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 11:16 PM »

kanya kanyang trip lang yan

. lahat naman tayo parang mga mental case pagdating sa audio e whether analog or digital

lets look at it in a different perspective...some car afficionados prefer the latest automobiles over the old ones. Those hi tech engines and all the electronic gadgetry slapped on to make the journey from point A to point B more efficient. in contrast to that some car afficionados prefer old cars that are painstakingly restored. They love the classic lines and the sound that those glorious engines produce. two types of afficionados, two types of routes taken but the end result of both routes is still getting from point A to point B. Different choices yet still the same goal and destination.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #54 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 11:24 PM »

Quote from: synchro on Oct 07, 2004 at 11:16 PM

kanya kanyang trip lang yan . lahat naman tayo parang mga mental case pagdating sa audio e whether analog or digital

well said.

yun iba naman bukod sa trip lang may passion and dedication na din.

audioslave · « **Reply #55 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 11:35 PM »

Quote from: synchro on Oct 07, 2004 at 11:16 PM

kanya kanyang trip lang yan . lahat naman tayo parang mga mental case pagdating sa audio e whether analog or digital

di ba sir, ikaw yung nagbenta ng TT at sangkatutak na plaka kase mas prefer mo CDs mo. digital pala trip mo

Dracula · « **Reply #56 on:** Oct 07, 2004 at 11:49 PM »

I'm safe from the dilemma of deciding whether to go analog or digital....I listened to a michelle gyro TT when I was buying my tube amplifier and I couldn't hear the difference...although I would like to get a nice entry level turntable like the GR-1 they're on sale here in the UK for 10k (hhmm tempting very tempting!)

synchro · « **Reply #57 on:** Oct 08, 2004 at 08:53 AM »

Quote from: audioslave on Oct 07, 2004 at 11:35 PM

di ba sir, ikaw yung nagbenta ng TT at sangkatutak na plaka kase mas prefer mo CDs mo. digital pala trip mo

audioslave

Please drop the "sir". yes thats me audioslave. Thanks to a fellow PDVD mental case (like me hehe), my record stash will be well taken care of for the next decade or so

. I havent completely gave up on analog since my Technics TT is still with me though I prefer the practicality of the digital medium. who knows maybe one day I just might go crazy over analog again but for now the digital route suits my taste and lifestyle better than analog.

kimpao · « **Reply #58 on:** Oct 08, 2004 at 10:20 AM »

Quote from: synchro on Oct 07, 2004 at 11:16 PM

kanya kanyang trip lang yan . lahat naman tayo parang mga mental case pagdating sa audio e whether analog or digital
lets look at it in a different perspective...some car afficionados prefer the latest automobiles over the old ones. Those hi tech engines and all the electronic gadgetry slapped on to make the journey from point A to point B more efficient. in contrast to that some car afficionados prefer old cars that are painstakingly restored. They love the classic lines and the sound that those glorious engines produce. two types of afficionados, two types of routes taken but the end result of both routes is still getting from point A to point B. Different choices yet still the same goal and destination.

way to go synchro!

lahat tayo'y praning pagdating sa audio!

sandawa · « **Reply #59 on:** Oct 08, 2004 at 11:36 AM »

i'm a balimbing on this issue although i prefer digital now for convenience and for many recordings that are really excellent. i still have something like a thousand vinyls incl. Telarc, Sheffield, Chesky, MFSL, Reference, and Japanese virgin pressings and about half a dozen record players, and a dozen cartridges. i had a serious talk with my wife last month and we've decided we would donate my vinyl and record player collection to UP Mindanao library should something unfortunate happen, maybe within the next 40 years. the next generation deserves to hear how good analog hifi technology sounds despite its limitations.

i own a CD player since the mid-80s and didn't like its sound initially until i heard the CD versions of Sheffield, Chesky and Reference titles, which I also have on analog. Lincoln Mayorga's "Missing Linc" and Michael Garson's "Serendipity" are among those that convinced me digital could be good. i also was given a demo by the Linn people at their showroom on Union Square in SF sometime in early '90s on how their technology has improved significantly playing their best analog and digital recordings on their best record and CD players. an analog legend, Linn was among those that originally resisted digital conversion.

what about analog? my experience is that everytime i revisit my collection every three months, i'd notice a note or sound i never heard from the digital versions. there's something there that's difficult to explain - could include the click and pop, maybe the hiss of the original tape where the vinyl recording was sourced, maybe the memory of the golden years of rock, folk-rock and cross-over jazz in the '70s and '80s. whatever it was, it always sounded good to me.

the synthesis? i'd say it's a "to each his own" game. we all have personal preferences that no one can take away from us when we play our gears and music in our rooms. analog or digital? no way, as far as i'm concerned. it should be analog AND digital.