Author Topic: Official Cayin Thread  (Read 226522 times)

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Offline JoeyGS

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #720 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 12:02 PM »
Best is to consult the local dealer direct, especially if you want to change tube types.  Cayin amps had a lot of revision in their designs (not negative in that sense) which may require minor parts changes.  As Tony said, its not impossible and its workable.

Thanks Tony.I am planning to change my stock KT88 with Genalex ones. My tubes are more than 5 years old  ;Dand I am anticipating to change them soon. I wish some one give me step wise instructions on how to bias tubes with Cayin A-70T.
I am wondering if anyone has more details about Cayin a70-t MANUAL BIASED version. Will this work with EL34 tubes? I read somewhere that it can not take EL34 (not sure!) [The auto bias version does take EL34 with a flip switch on top :( ,mine is not that version]. How can I found out whether it is 30W or 55w VERSION?

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #721 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 12:08 PM »
^depende yan sa range ng voltage available in the amp, sometimes you can get away without any mods......these can be checked by measuring the grid voltage without the tubes inserted...you will need to ask a technician to do it for you....
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Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #722 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 09:09 PM »
Thanks guys.I was under the impression that only the 30 W version is Class A and 55 W is Class AB. So I actually wants the 30W version. Can the Cayin dealer tell me from Serial Number?Or is there any way to find that out?

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #723 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 09:18 PM »
If there is a switch on top,  that has "EL34" and "KT88" labels, then its the 30 watt class A version. No switch it should be the 55 watt class AB manual biased version.  You can also use 6550 tubes instead of KT88.

For biasing, I would send the amp with the new tubes to Audio Amplified, better safe than sorry.

To change to EL34, there is a resistor that needs to be replaced internally.


Very interesting thread. I have a cayin A70-T with manual biasing option. I got it used from a local retailer. The discussion about Cayin A70T here really worries me  :o. I do not know any other details except it is KT88 tube version with manual biasing. Is there any way to find out?
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2013 at 09:27 PM by qguy »

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #724 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 09:50 PM »
Thanks Qguy.I was under the impression all this time that older manual biased version was class A.  :(. I am not in philippines and actually in US.The new versions with flip switch on top for EL34/KT88 are also 55W as listed in US site(http://www.cayinusa.com/Product_Name.asp?Category=26:56:40&types=2 ). Unfortunately ,I live not anywhere close to official dealer so have to depend on local tech. I f you can let me know the resistor/s that need be changed with values it will be of great help.  :)
I checked the manual in cayinUSA site and you are right it is listed as 2X30W ultralinear kt88 :.So do not know which one to believe? :o
« Last Edit: Feb 04, 2013 at 10:01 PM by kinku »

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #725 on: Feb 04, 2013 at 10:09 PM »
As for which resistor, I do not know which one. I would stick to Kt88 /6550 tubes, There is a multitude of brands and models available that should negate the need for EL34 types. Personally I prefer the GL Kt88 and Tungsol 6550, the GL provides a bit more snap and detail whereas the Tungsol is full bodied and warm with a lot of bass

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #726 on: Feb 05, 2013 at 12:45 AM »
Thanks.Is there a appreciable difference in sound quality in both version.In theory Class A should be better than AB? Any experiences?

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #727 on: Feb 05, 2013 at 02:29 AM »
Have not tried comparing both side by side

Thanks.Is there a appreciable difference in sound quality in both version.In theory Class A should be better than AB? Any experiences?

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #728 on: Feb 05, 2013 at 07:00 AM »
Thanks Qguy.I was under the impression all this time that older manual biased version was class A.  :(. I am not in philippines and actually in US.The new versions with flip switch on top for EL34/KT88 are also 55W as listed in US site(http://www.cayinusa.com/Product_Name.asp?Category=26:56:40&types=2 ). Unfortunately ,I live not anywhere close to official dealer so have to depend on local tech. I f you can let me know the resistor/s that need be changed with values it will be of great help.  :)
I checked the manual in cayinUSA site and you are right it is listed as 2X30W ultralinear kt88 :.So do not know which one to believe? :o

i wonder how much stateside techs charge for these type of services....
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Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #729 on: Feb 05, 2013 at 10:50 AM »
Its is whole lot compared to there. 50-100 for touching it.  :'(

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #730 on: Feb 06, 2013 at 10:22 PM »
My cayin A70-T is about 5 years old. I use it with Monitor audio silver RS6. The KT88(cayin KT88) tubes are as old as my amp.It feels to me like the low frequency response is not good enough compared to mids and highs. Is it because the tubes are old? Or is it the combo of RS6 with A70T ? RS6 are on the weaker side of bass reproduction and more brighter speakers. Any suggestions?Will changing tubes will take care of it?

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #731 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 06:52 AM »
if your output tubes do not red plate, if your amp does not distort nor hum, then those tubes are probably still alright.....why not try a tone control to find out if your amp can produce hefty bass?
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Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #732 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 07:07 AM »
if you want more bass, try the Tungsol 6550.

if your output tubes do not red plate, if your amp does not distort nor hum, then those tubes are probably still alright.....why not try a tone control to find out if your amp can produce hefty bass?

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #733 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:13 AM »
Tony can you please explain how to use the tone control?  :o
Does any one knows what are the make of Cayin stock tubes? I initially set my bias voltage at 0.4v then increased to .43 with some increase in bass but it still not reaching expectations. The mids have become less prominent but still the bass lack the presence. >:D

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #734 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:20 AM »
The Cayin A70T can work as a power amp.  What you do is you get a pre-amp with tone controls, bass and treble controls and use them  to adjust the sound.

Alternatively, you might want to look into getting a subwoofer.

Tony can you please explain how to use the tone control?  :o
Does any one knows what are the make of Cayin stock tubes? I initially set my bias voltage at 0.4v then increased to .43 with some increase in bass but it still not reaching expectations. The mids have become less prominent but still the bass lack the presence. >:D

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #735 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:27 AM »
Thanks qguy. I am wondering how much difference tungosol would make over stock tubes. I am not a big fan of subs and honestly not looking for room shaking effects. My issue with A70 is mids and highs are there but bass  you need to listen to hear.it is there but noted by shyness. Do you know what is the make of stock cayin KT88 ? I guess you have great results from using tungsols in bass response?
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:29 AM by kinku »

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #736 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:34 AM »
Tungsol 6550. Yes, Their great !!!, it has a warm tone. The mids are laidback compared to GL Kt88.

  Now that you mentioned that you like the mids and highs of the current tubes, then all the more reason to think about the subs as a properly integrated subwoofer should not muddy up the mids

Check out Rythmik subwoofers, their primarily designed for 2 channel audio systems, but recently added larger subs for HT. The sealed F12 would be a great start


 
Thanks qguy. I am wondering how much difference tungosol would make over stock tubes. I am not a big fan of subs and honestly not looking for room shaking effects. My issue with A70 is mids and highs are there but bass  you need to listen to hear.it is there but noted by shyness. Do you know what is the make of stock cayin KT88 ? I guess you have great results from using tungsols in bass response?
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2013 at 10:35 AM by qguy »

Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #737 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 11:09 AM »
Can they be used without any change in Cayin a70-t? Did you mean NOS or reissue tung sol .

Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #738 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 11:28 AM »
New production / reissue Tungsol 6550. No internal changes required except biasing.

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #739 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 11:35 AM »
Qguy is your A70-t a manual biased version? I read in so many places your post on A70t.  :)

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #740 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 11:37 AM »
Autobias Class A :) El34 / KT88 version


Qguy is your A70-t a manual biased version? I read in so many places your post on A70t.  :)

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #741 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 11:45 AM »
I was hopeful to find a company in the tube jungle. :(. I guess you have enough experience and read at many places that you settled on 6550. Now the biggest promoter of the same. Do you have experience with manual biased version ? I guess it might be different than auto bias( just a wild guess). Do you know the bias voltage for 6550 in A70 -t?

Offline ATJr.

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #742 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 12:04 PM »
Tony can you please explain how to use the tone control?  :o
Does any one knows what are the make of Cayin stock tubes? I initially set my bias voltage at 0.4v then increased to .43 with some increase in bass but it still not reaching expectations. The mids have become less prominent but still the bass lack the presence. >:D

if you have a vintage amp or any other amp with a preamp out, you can hook that up to your Cayin....

Cayin being a Chinese amp uses Shuguang tubes by default.....

the reason for setting bias is to avoid cross-over distortions and reduce it to insignificant values.....another reason it to prevent your output tube from red plating if the bias voltage becomes low and cathode current increases.... ;)

bass response is a function of your output transformer, how it saturates at low frequencies, naturally a bigger output transformer can output higher power at lower frequencies than a smaller transformer, that is your limitation....you may be surprised to know, that an output transformer that can do 50watts at 1khz can only manage half of that at 20hz, this is the nature of the beast..... 8)

« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2013 at 12:21 PM by TonyT »
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Offline qguy

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #743 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 12:07 PM »
Nope did want to deal with biasing,  hence I got the Autobias version :)

Right now I only use Tungsol 6550 and GL KT88

I was hopeful to find a company in the tube jungle. :(. I guess you have enough experience and read at many places that you settled on 6550. Now the biggest promoter of the same. Do you have experience with manual biased version ? I guess it might be different than auto bias( just a wild guess). Do you know the bias voltage for 6550 in A70 -t?

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #744 on: Feb 07, 2013 at 07:05 PM »


bass response is a function of your output transformer, how it saturates at low frequencies, naturally a bigger output transformer can output higher power at lower frequencies than a smaller transformer, that is your limitation....

Thanks Tony.Are you trying to say changing tubes may not be the solution. I read somewhere that A70-t has better output transformers than A80-t.
Or are you saying cayins have a week bass out put from using a smaller transformer? To be honest I am the only one having this issue.
About red plating is it increasing or decreasing bias voltage that causes red plating?
qguy basing manually is fun.its like tuning your engine yourself. auto bias version can take 6555. But do you know it is the same for manual biased version?

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #745 on: Feb 08, 2013 at 06:56 AM »
Thanks Tony.Are you trying to say changing tubes may not be the solution. I read somewhere that A70-t has better output transformers than A80-t.
Or are you saying cayins have a week bass out put from using a smaller transformer? To be honest I am the only one having this issue.
About red plating is it increasing or decreasing bias voltage that causes red plating?
qguy basing manually is fun.its like tuning your engine yourself. auto bias version can take 6555. But do you know it is the same for manual biased version?

red plating can be caused by several reasons, one if the plate dissipation specs of the tube is exceeded, i.e. the EL34 is rated for 24 watts and you biased the tube for 30 watts, another is when your output stage oscillates at RF, you will not hear that but it can happen.....

decreasing the grid voltage increases plate current and vice versa....this is what happens when you turn the bias controls....

i would not give you false hopes, one man's experience may not hold true to you.....if you can borrow a preamp with tone control, then i think that is your best option to try.....

you see here how many tried changing tubes, changing caps, etc, then later on sold their amps....

besides, the enjoyment of music can not hinge on just the tubes, nor the amplifier alone, you have to look at the whole chain from source to speakers and the listening environment......if you focus on just the amp, you may never get there......

since your amp is 5 years old, go ahead and change tubes....
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2013 at 07:04 AM by TonyT »
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Offline kinku

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #746 on: Feb 14, 2013 at 05:49 AM »
Any one here tried to change capacitors in Cayin A70-T? Any idea what to change and which one to use?

Offline Adam Warlock

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #747 on: Feb 14, 2013 at 05:27 PM »
You can search the pinoy and wiredstate site, there is a lot of thread regarding upgrade. For A70T You need to change 2pc 0.1uf, 2pc 0.33uf and 4pc 0.22uf. Better bring your amp to our shop so we can check the innards. pls call 631-0679 and talk with our tech guys...

Cheers

By the way, we are the exclusive distributor of mundorf here in PI  :)

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #748 on: Feb 14, 2013 at 05:45 PM »
Sir Noel how much ang cost ng Cayin CD17 capacitor upgrade?

Offline Adam Warlock

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Re: Official Cayin Thread
« Reply #749 on: Feb 14, 2013 at 05:48 PM »
Sir Noel how much ang cost ng Cayin CD17 capacitor upgrade?

Sir depende po kung anong klase. from MCAP regular to Silver Gold Oil. Kindly call na lang for pricing kung ano gusto mong caps