Topic: Pioneer integrated amps

[RMN]

What do you guys think of Pioneer integrated amps? Are they any good?

[M_Shoe_Maker]

For 2-channel stereo, I prefer British Integrated Amps over Japanese brands.  

There was however a particular Pioneed Integrated Amp that had good reviews from British Audio magazines such as What Hi-Fi.  This was the Pioneer A400.  If I'm not mistaken, this particular Pioneer was designed in UK, thus UK type of sound.  It came out during the early 90s.  I have not really listened to this particular model, but is worth checking out in the used market.

[rtsy]

For 2-channel stereo, I prefer British Integrated Amps over Japanese brands.  

I'll generalize "British" to European.  Italian Audio Analogue and Unico, French YBA/Audio Refinement, (Dutch nga ba?) Electrocompaniet, Swiss Nagra, are likely to beat the living daylight out of the best the Denons, Onkyos, Yamahas, and Pioneers of the world.

Though at least one terrific Japanese electronics maker come to mind as something I'd rather own than anything else:  Kondo's stuff, previously the Japanese partner of Audio Note.

There was however a particular Pioneed Integrated Amp that had good reviews from British Audio magazines such as What Hi-Fi.  This was the Pioneer A400.  If I'm not mistaken, this particular Pioneer was designed in UK, thus UK type of sound.  It came out during the early 90s.  I have not really listened to this particular model, but is worth checking out in the used market.

I heard the A400x.  Yes, it's much warmer and fuller than typicalPioneer stuff but it still falls short of the NAD/Rotel/Creek house sound.

[2fast2furious]

I own a pioneer integrated amp model A700R.  I'm selling it because I want to upgrade into HT.

It's for grabs.  Best offer.  Seldom used and bought it last 1998 for 20,000.

[Archangel]

I think the great Pioneer stereo amp you're talking about is the A-300R not the A400.   I saw the A400 during the last Citibank installment promotion at megamall.  Thought it was the great amp too.  Luckily I got over to Pac Internet on the same floor to look at audioreview.com before I decided to buy it.

[audio_tyro]

Hi RMN, you can help us help you more if you tell us first why you are asking about the Pioneer integrated amp (and which model ?). Are you in the market for an integrated amp? What is your budget (max.). What speakers (brand/model) will you use your amp to drive it with? Lastly, what type of songs do you play in your system?

Many of us here can give you good advice once we get your answer.

Cheers!

[RMN]

I'm not really in the market for a Pioneer amp. I was just curious if it was any good since it seems to have been "overtaken" by other brands (sort of like  Akai and Sansui, the once popular Japanese brands?) Thanks just the same.

[audio_tyro]

Yes you're right. Pioneer has been overtaken aeons ago by many integrated amps, notably British designs (subcontracted in an Asian manufacturing sites). Affordable brands like Rotel (like the 931Mk.2) or NAD have propelled their products into much higher levels that they have become utterly unreachable by the Pioneer lines (and the others you mentioned). Pioneer, Aiwa, Sansui, etc. were targetting the "masa" market, notably a portion of the OCW (like seaman). Majority of this market still think that Bose is Da King though.

[M_Shoe_Maker]

He! He! He!  

Ang sakit mo naman magsalita Audio_Tyro

 

[audio_tyro]

He! He! He!  

Ang sakit mo naman magsalita Audio_Tyro

 

Ay, sorry Pare. Hindi naman. Sobrang honest lang kasi no? hehehe. Ika nga, no holds barred. Di bale na, naka Dynaco tube amp ka naman eh, at turntable pa! so you're in a higher league, quite unreachable by me!  

[M_Shoe_Maker]

 

Ikaw ang unreachable!

May Sub ka, REL pa!  

Ako walang sub.  

[audio_tyro]

For 2-channel stereo, I prefer British Integrated Amps over Japanese brands.  

There was however a particular Pioneed Integrated Amp that had good reviews from British Audio magazines such as What Hi-Fi.  This was the Pioneer A400.  

Pare, are you sure it's not the AX400 ? Rico of Upscale Audio Makati, says this was his favorite budget amp when I had a conversation with him many many years ago (I think 1994). He even used it to drive some Martin Logans electrostatic speakers.

[audio_tyro]

Ikaw ang unreachable!
May Sub ka, REL pa!  
Ako walang sub.  

Ha'la naman! Meron ka namang mga plaka ng gusto mong mga music, na pinapatugtug mo sa napakamahal mong Clearaudio turntable, with equally expensive Tone Arm and cartridge!!!  Ako kahit magtumbling pa ako ng ilang beses, wala na sa plaka ang mga gusto kong mga tugtug kaya tiyaga na lang ako sa CD (forever!).

[M_Shoe_Maker]

I'm not really sure if its an AX400 or A400.  Basta, it was the one with a "minimalistic" look.  Non of those Japanese types wherein the faceplate is full of push buttons, knobs and other useless sound degrading stuff.

This particular Pioneer only had 2 large knobs; 1 for the volume and 1 for the selector.  If I'm not mistaken, wala nga atang bass and treble controls.  Typical British stuff.

Yup, Upscale did sell this particular Pioneer amp in the mid-90s.

[audio_tyro]

I'm not really sure if its an AX400 or A400.  Basta, it was the one with a "minimalistic" look.  Non of those Japanese types wherein the faceplate is full of push buttons, knobs and other useless sound degrading stuff.

This particular Pioneer only had 2 large knobs; 1 for the volume and 1 for the selector.  If I'm not mistaken, wala nga atang bass and treble controls.  Typical British stuff.

Yup, Upscale did sell this particular Pioneer amp in the mid-90s.

Yup AX400 na nga yon. Hindi na available itong model na to ngayon, but I've been told this was a good model. For now, marami na'ng better options available (Rotel, NAD, Arcam, etc).

[hyperaudio]

it's the pioneer a-400x guys; a solid-state amp recommended in lieu of tubes in it's time. but now rotels (esp. the ra-02) will trample on it.

[audi0slave]

I'm selling a Pioneer A-405 integrated amp. if interested, please send PM.

the A-405 is an int-amp designed and made in Japan unlike the award winning A-400 which was designed in the UK and once held the coveted "amplifier of the year" award during the early 1990s.

the difference between the two is that the A-400 was a purist design amp while the A-405 had tone controls but can be bypassed by pressing the Direct Mode button.

 

[av_phile1]

Does this integrated amp have pre-outs?  Thanks.

[audi0slave]

Does this integrated amp have pre-outs?  Thanks.

that's my main complaint on this amp.... it doesn't have pre-outs.

 

[av_phile1]

Ah ok, i'd feel the same. 

It's really seems illogical for manufacturers to exclude this feature from their low power amps and put it in their more powerful mid and flagship units.    As if the need to upgrade to more power is more compelling with flagship models than with entry level ones.  By doing so, they've truly taken out any future upgrade path for consumers to have more power without disposing off their entry level units.

[jerix]

hey bros, what do u actually mean when u say "OVERTAKEN by some other brands?"

If Pioneer amps manufactured during the 80s are good sounding, at hindi na ngayon, how did this happen in the first place? nagbawas ba sila ng piyesa para makatipid, and so pumangit at naging very bright ang tunog? 

[Narayan]

bro jerix,

i think when people say overtaken by other brands, mas na pushed marketing wise ung other brands dito, specially in this forum.. if you will check foreign sites, you will find that pioneer models fare very very well

[akyatbundok]

i think like other jap brands, pioneer continued exporting mass-produced products but kept the high-quality ones in the domestic market (in japan)... same with sansui who manufactures cheap low-quality products, but were once a respected high-end brand... i read that during the 80's the rapid appreciation of the yen vs the dollar made it extremely costly to rely on exports that's why we see only their worst and never see their best.

[audi0slave]

The Pioneer A-405 integrated amp is not that bad at all. it sounds very much like the Rotel RA-02 that i thought was an upgrade. both are forward sounding... It was still an upgrade indeed coz i now have the luxury of a pair of pre-outs and a remote not found in the A-405.

might as well add that the A-405's power transistors are the more superior Japanese 2SA1302 and has a pair of a bigger and heftier bypass caps at the output stage compared to Rotel ra-02's Rubycon pair... (all the while i thought the rotels use Black Gates but I was wrong)

perhaps the rotels can only brag of with their custom-made torroidal trannys...

 

[audi0slave]

i think like other jap brands, pioneer continued exporting mass-produced products but kept the high-quality ones in the domestic market (in japan)... same with sansui who manufactures cheap low-quality products, but were once a respected high-end brand... i read that during the 80's the rapid appreciation of the yen vs the dollar made it extremely costly to rely on exports that's why we see only their worst and never saw their best.

typically japanese philosophy.... they retain the best for their own use and consumption and export the experimentally cheap and mass-produced products for the international market.

 

[arthurallanj]

typically japanese philosophy.... they retain the best for their own use and consumption and export the experimentally cheap and mass-produced products for the international market.

 

I'd second that. Just like the Yamaha flagships. Ang AX1, AZ1, are both made in Japan, but the rest, made in Malaysia. Wawa naman tayo.

[jerix]

haha! mas maganda kung ganun ang bumili ng 2nd hand na unit na locally released lang sa japan. 

Bro Narayan, i think i have the same impression with you, sa ibang forum at audio review sites OK naman ang pioneer pero dito sa Pinoy, medyo inferior ang dating ng Pioneer. di kaya mag kakaiba ang quality ng nire-release nilang units for ASIA and the US or Europe? or medyo superior lang ang pandinig ng mga pinoy when it comes to sound quality-- 

[akyatbundok]

pioneer carries a product line that's higher than "Elite", it's called "Exclusive"... it's their cost-no-object product line.

while Elite may be the same level as the Integra line of Onkyo, Exclusive competes at the level of Accuphase and Esoteric (of Teac)... the prices are astronomical... aren't you glad they're not being sold here?  hehehe

C7A stereo preamp - P595,000 (1.2 million yen)


M8 stereo power amp - P420,000 (850,000 yen)


TAD M-1 speaker - P1,488,000 (3 million yen)

[av_phile1]

Wow, nice gears.  Are these marketed exclusively for the Japanese domestic market only?  Not that I'd be interested if they were made available outside.  For their prices, I think there are other brands with a more solid claim and familiar hold on the esoteric audiophile boutique market.  Don't you think so?  Or I just never heard of them?

[edboy7]

akyat cool!....sana merong maligaw sa pier nyan?