Author Topic: LCD: is it a good time to buy? (Read 10887 times)

slowhand · « **Reply #30 on:** Jun 17, 2005 at 04:09 PM »

The problem with most store demos of flat panels and big-screen displays is that they use p-dvds; even the best of such kinds of software will not show up well in those displays.

Another problem is that those displays are not set up properly. Among many sins, the store people have been trained to bump up the brightness and sharpness (to "impress") using filters and enhancers which tend to create artifacts.

I don't think you need "hi-rez" software (which is upconverted rather than native high-rez), just original 480i/480p with good transfers should show off those displays well.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #31 on:** Jun 22, 2005 at 04:14 PM »

I did notice that most mall AV shops do use p-dvds in their demos. But the ones I saw at Anson's with very obvious stair-steps were using the stock ad/demo DVDs from Sony, Pioneer or Panasonic, etc. I was thinking that maybe they wre using composite or s-video connection.

Then again, I recall watching a Toshiba 42" plasma at Sights and Sounds using p-DVD A Bug's Life and using mere COMPOSITE yellow RCA connection. And I have to say my jaw dropped in awe at its colors. No stair-stepping at all. (I suppose any pixar animation is jaw-dropping on any wide screen.

) May be the display upscales the DVD's 480p to the display's native resolution of 1080p, regardless of whether composite, VGA, s-video or progressive, right? And even the low bitrate pDVDs would benefit from upscaling, right?

slowhand · « **Reply #32 on:** Jun 23, 2005 at 09:07 AM »

av_phile, looks like you're seriously auditioning flat panels

Agree about Bug's Life - even at its worst, it still looks ok. No mystery why they run this, or other animated films, to show off a display.

I haven't seen the Anson's demo so I can't comment specifically.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #33 on:** Jun 23, 2005 at 09:33 AM »

Well, not really. From time to time, I get the urge, but when I see the prices still the same as the last time I checked, I go to Astro na lang.

dazed · « **Reply #34 on:** Jun 23, 2005 at 05:31 PM »

prices in hk (and i guess everywhere else except manila

) are dropping every month, and it's really tempting to get one.

27" lcd (from china/taiwan manufacturers - syntax, shinco, etc) prices are less than 50K (as matzter mentioned). i'm eyeing 37" versions from more well-known players (toshiba, LG, etc) and these are around PhP 160-170K - still way better than the pricing/options here. you can get some idea on the current street price at http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/list.php

problem is, how to bring it over. anybody have contacts that can bring these in? i go there every month, i can help in sourcing the product - shipping na lang. ang laki kase eh, di to pwede i checkin

i got a nice 20" widescreen monitor (dell) at a fairly good price, and since the base was detachable, i just handcarried the actual panel. if only i could do that with the 37"

matt, baka magpapasok ka, sabay na ako!

MAtZTER · « **Reply #35 on:** Jun 23, 2005 at 07:59 PM »

Quote from: dazed on Jun 23, 2005 at 05:31 PM

i got a nice 20" widescreen monitor (dell) at a fairly good price, and since the base was detachable, i just handcarried the actual panel. if only i could do that with the 37"
problem is, how to bring it over. anybody have contacts that can bring these in? i go there every month, i can help in sourcing the product - shipping na lang. ang laki kase eh, di to pwede i checkin

As I know, customs would tax TV's larger than 25" the last time I asked.

Also, I recall when I was going home from China via MTR (from Shenzen) there were people hand carrying 20+" LCD TVs from China.

Quote from: dazed on Jun 23, 2005 at 05:31 PM

matt, baka magpapasok ka, sabay na ako!
i'm eyeing 37" versions from more well-known players (toshiba, LG, etc) and these are around PhP 160-170K

I have sources in China but only for generic brands, I dont think you would settle for them ( I wouldnt, kahit mura) since you mentioned you were getting branded ones.

If ever I will get some stuff like that in, I will let you know

. I am actually considering brining in some AV racks & speaker stands so stuff like that are a bit related.

PS
Yo Nick, I wasnt able to find the GIEC in Sham Shui Po area. they were selling older models though. I was only able to find it in Mongkok. But going through the streets of SSP was quite a learning experience, very nice electronics!

MAtZTER · « **Reply #36 on:** Jun 23, 2005 at 08:34 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Jun 22, 2005 at 04:14 PM

May be the display upscales the DVD's 480p to the display's native resolution of 1080p, regardless of whether composite, VGA, s-video or progressive, right? And even the low bitrate pDVDs would benefit from upscaling, right?

AS of the last HT mag I read (feb, 2005), only very few models do this auto upscaling and they are the latest models. The model I read that does that was a 52" Mitsubishi DLP TV and it only upscales to its native 720p and through component connection at least. We have a lot of 1080i TVs but 1080p TVs are very new in the market. I dont think we have it here in the Phils yet.

Most low bitrate P-dvds still look very hazy & dream-like when upscaled (in my experience, RPTV

). I also tested a P-dvd at my friend's Samsung 55" DLP TV with a Samsung upscaling DVD player and still the same results & grabe ang pixelation. Same thing on the 42" plasma with the same player.

I am sure there is a benefit somehow, but the degree of benefit also depends on how clear your P-dvd is. Clear video becomes a bit clearer video. Mediocre video gets upscaled to a bit better video, but still mediocre.

v0elker · « **Reply #37 on:** Jun 25, 2005 at 08:11 AM »

Quote from: MAtZTER on Jun 23, 2005 at 08:34 PM

Most low bitrate P-dvds still look very hazy & dream-like when upscaled (in my experience, RPTV ). I also tested a P-dvd at my friend's Samsung 55" DLP TV with a Samsung upscaling DVD player and still the same results & grabe ang pixelation. Same thing on the 42" plasma with the same player.

i think thats because most p-dvd disks are only a fraction of the original dvds. most original dvds are in DVD9 format whilst the p-dvd's are typically DVD5. the pirates usually make reduced copies (reduced image quality, removed extra features & audio tracks,etc) of the originals to make em fit onto a DVD5 disc.

when i try to make copies of some of my original dvds i usually get around 40-60% of the original disc. plus it takes a looong time to process those "compressed" discs

v0elker · « **Reply #38 on:** Jun 25, 2005 at 08:23 AM »

sigh, if only we had these sub-P50k LCD tv's here... even with their 7% sales its still less than P50k (the other 7% sales tax can be redeemed)...

http://www.costco.ca/en-CA/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10286326&whse=&topnav=&cat=3316&hierPath=79*3316*

av_phile1 · « **Reply #39 on:** Jun 27, 2005 at 02:11 PM »

Beautiful!!!!

If I recall right, I saw a sub-50k flat LCD widescreen at SM appliance. It's a Sansui brand. But is only 18" diag.

A 27" LCD widescreen would be about the same size as the 28" flat screens common in Jap surplus (actually just 26" viewable screen area). If not mistaken an LCD this size is around 100T, more or less, at Anson's.

Just curious. Aren't there LCD or Plasma monitors ONLY? I think ALL models I've seen here have built-in 5.1 processors, amps and speakers which I find WORTHLESS in the presence of more profound HT receivers and surround speaker set-ups. Some even have this SRS or simulated surround processors which I find similarly useless. Why not take them out to bring down the prices? Or at least give customers who already own HT receivers/speakers the option not to pay for these?

v0elker · « **Reply #40 on:** Jul 13, 2005 at 06:37 AM »

av: yung panny meron commercial/industrial plasma models that are readily available, even locally. im just not sure if the latest models are available here.

meron na din ako nakitang commercial/industrial lcd models from panny and samsung pero sa ibang countries. i doubt if they're available here.

v0elker · « **Reply #41 on:** Jul 13, 2005 at 06:42 AM »

may newish 32" lcd tv sa shops, hitachi 32ld7800ta. you guys seen this? they're listing for P199k, cheapest ive seen is over at anson's. its chock full o inputs, parang madaming component and it has both DVI and HDMI. it even has a motorized swivel zoowee

ive seen positive reviews for the european model (32ld7200) and mukhang popular sya sa uk right now. of course, they're selling for much less over there (pati sa sing and for sure, sa hk), less than P130k or thereabouts.

spec's here: http://www.hitachidigitalmedia.com/DMG/viewProduct_1.jsp?productid=465

Dracula · « **Reply #42 on:** Aug 02, 2005 at 05:41 PM »

I have been resisting buying LCD tv's here in the UK. The prices are making it hard you can get a 42" lcd for only 150k very difficult to get a hold of a model with progressive scan and component input. Lowest is a Samsung 32" for only 80k madami na kasi gumagamit ng flat panel dito kaya siguro mababa ang price kaso uwi na ako sa November baka mamaya masira pagdating ko sa pinas mahirap yata yun....

alvinthx2 · « **Reply #43 on:** Sep 09, 2005 at 07:58 AM »

I have to go with Plasma still. LCD just don't have the black level that I like. They are great for games, but not for movies. I can get a hitachi 32 inch hd plasma for less than 140t compared to the 199k of the locally sold hitachi lcd model. Both have the same motorized swivel.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #44 on:** Sep 15, 2005 at 10:33 AM »

Heard from CNN that SONY is coming out with their "Bravia" LCD series that are cheaper than their previous LCD TVs. How much cheaper I have no idea.

fiddlers_green · « **Reply #45 on:** Sep 18, 2005 at 10:52 PM »

Quote from: v0elker on Jul 13, 2005 at 06:42 AM

may newish 32" lcd tv sa shops, hitachi 32ld7800ta. you guys seen this? they're listing for P199k, cheapest ive seen is over at anson's. its chock full o inputs, parang madaming component and it has both DVI and HDMI. it even has a motorized swivel zoowee

ive seen positive reviews for the european model (32ld7200) and mukhang popular sya sa uk right now. of course, they're selling for much less over there (pati sa sing and for sure, sa hk), less than P130k or thereabouts.

spec's here: http://www.hitachidigitalmedia.com/DMG/viewProduct_1.jsp?productid=465

They're selling it in Glorieta's BPI Madness for Php 185K for 12 months. We were intrigued by this model. You get a free stand and a DVD player. My dad liked its Analog to Digital Converter feature but somehow the salesman cannot show it. We are considering getting the model because of the aforementioned feature. Any comments on the unit?

v0elker · « **Reply #46 on:** Sep 19, 2005 at 09:42 AM »

Quote from: fiddlers_green on Sep 18, 2005 at 10:52 PM

They're selling it in Glorieta's BPI Madness for Php 185K for 12 months. We were intrigued by this model. You get a free stand and a DVD player. My dad liked its Analog to Digital Converter feature but somehow the salesman cannot show it. We are considering getting the model because of the aforementioned feature. Any comments on the unit?

Analog to Digital Converter?? and you are considering getting this model for this feature alone?? hehe me thinks the salesman was pulling a fast one on you.

go talk to our good friend matzter, he is selling the unit for P155k cash, without the bullcrap. check his thread:

http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=41106.msg486596#msg486596

av_phile1 · « **Reply #47 on:** Sep 19, 2005 at 05:12 PM »

If I recall right, those flat LCD and plasma monitors convert all component, VGA, RGB, S-video and composite analog signals to digital before processing them to be displayed. The only time you don't do any conversion is when the input used is via DVI or HDMI.

v0elker · « **Reply #48 on:** Sep 19, 2005 at 05:51 PM »

that's just the first step, i figure the video processing (upscaling, etc) do more for the image quality than just the ADC. it was a strange pitch by the salesman, is all

fiddlers_green · « **Reply #49 on:** Sep 21, 2005 at 09:14 PM »

Quote from: v0elker on Sep 19, 2005 at 05:51 PM

that's just the first step, i figure the video processing (upscaling, etc) do more for the image quality than just the ADC. it was a strange pitch by the salesman, is all

Thanks for the advice. We were looking at if the LCD can make channels from local broadcast or cable clearer.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #50 on:** Sep 22, 2005 at 11:22 AM »

Quote from: fiddlers_green on Sep 21, 2005 at 09:14 PM

Thanks for the advice. We were looking at if the LCD can make channels from local broadcast or cable clearer.

I strongly doubt that. Upscaling a lousy signal will only result in an enlarged lousy picture.

Digitizing a poor analog signal and then upscaling it would only show the poor signal in all its terrible glory.

Garbage in garbage out, so they say. Ofcourse, not all channels are bad. The better ones will probably benefit from the upscaling. But really, Plasmas and LCDs look best when fed from good DVD players and game consoles, not cable. Unless the broadcast is HDTV.

Dracula · « **Reply #51 on:** Sep 22, 2005 at 04:48 PM »

So is the best thing to do if you want to get a plasma or an lcd television is to just watch dvds on the units and stick to the traditional crt television for broadcasts

av_phile1 · « **Reply #52 on:** Sep 22, 2005 at 05:13 PM »

Quote from: dracula on Sep 22, 2005 at 04:48 PM

So is the best thing to do if you want to get a plasma or an lcd television is to just watch dvds on the units and stick to the traditional crt television for broadcasts

DVDs and PS2, xbox game consoles.

It's really up to you. If you can get good cable signals, there's a good chance the upscaling will work fine, but certainly far from the quality you can expect from DVDs and game consoles. There was a demo of Dream satellite cable a year back using digital SDTV satellite on a 42" plasma. Nice for still images, pero, sakit sa mata. Pixellations here and there especially in fast moving images. And to think digital cable na yun, malinis yung signal or you don't get any pics, how much worst if analog cable ang ginamit subject to a lot of interference?

IOW, I wouldn't get a plasma for cable or off the air broadcast. In the US for HDTV, but not here. Now if you can get DirectTV digital HDTV satellite signals from the US, which I heard can be done at a price, that's another thing.

number1 · « **Reply #53 on:** Nov 01, 2005 at 10:18 PM »

In Singapore, LCD occupies the center main display in great number while the plasma are regaled to the obscure side with much less units on display. This makes me hypothesize that LCDs might be outselling the plasmas in Singapore.

Went to one of the several Sony showrooms there and if I'm not mistaken, the new Bravia KLV-V40A10 costs less than Sing$6,000 or roughly Php 180,000. 42" Plasmas by Philips cost aroung Php 90,000+.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #54 on:** Nov 03, 2005 at 03:28 PM »

According to CNN, the Bravias are supposed to be priced lower than the current 2005 Sony models and are hoped to salvage SONY's falling profits.

jackryan · « **Reply #55 on:** May 27, 2006 at 11:57 AM »

I still cannot imagine one getting a plasma when the roadmap clearly points to LCD type panels unless another technology breakthrough comes up... am I missing anything aside well I guess aside from size ?

av_phile1 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 29, 2006 at 01:33 PM »

LCDs are getting really impressive. Apart from the Bravia that had me drooling, just saw the biiggest LCD screens at the Abenson (or was it SM appliance??

) at Mall of Asia last saturday. It's a 60" Aquos from Sharp. And it's really just fantastic. I didn't dare ask how much.

MAtZTER · « **Reply #57 on:** May 29, 2006 at 01:58 PM »

Sharp 65" LCD costs around P1m (in Hong Kong, so mas mahal pa dito). The image was stunning for a LCD of that size.

My friend has a catalogue. He was the one who asked the price when we were in HK.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #58 on:** May 29, 2006 at 02:52 PM »

I had imagined it would cost in that area. But if I recall right, that was also the tag prices of most 42" plasmas when they started here.

Weng! · « **Reply #59 on:** May 30, 2006 at 05:50 AM »

Quote from: number1 on Nov 01, 2005 at 10:18 PM

In Singapore, LCD occupies the center main display in great number while the plasma are regaled to the obscure side with much less units on display. This makes me hypothesize that LCDs might be outselling the plasmas in Singapore.

Went to one of the several Sony showrooms there and if I'm not mistaken, the new Bravia KLV-V40A10 costs less than Sing$6,000 or roughly Php 180,000. 42" Plasmas by Philips cost aroung Php 90,000+.

here in thailand, sale ang mga sony products. got these prices from their local paper ads.

SONY Bravia V40A10 at Baht 119,999 (or roughly Php164k) while the S40A10 is at Baht 89,999 (Php 123k). marami pang mga lcd at plasma na less than 100k baht lang.

tempting ang price. di ba masisira ang mga display pag pina door to door?