Topic: SAKURA AMP

[arthurallanj]

Yeah, bro Jo, my 1,500-peso Sakura amp also had a toroidal transformer, grabe no? 

[JojoD818]

Yeah, bro Jo, my 1,500-peso Sakura amp also had a toroidal transformer, grabe no? 

ohlala! grabe talaga bro, makes me wanna buy one and snatch that darn toroidal tranny for a gainclone project.  oh and I like their volume pots that have those clicks when you turn it. 

I like what I hear, apart from the occasional cloudiness in the mids and treble, and sometimes boomy bass but can be remedied with the tone controls, Sakura's amp section is very good indeed. Though I seriously doubt their power ratings. But how the heck did they come up with that price? the Toshiba C5198/A1941 power transistors alone will cost them half the selling price. Beats the hell out of local ss amp manufacturers in my opinion.

[av_phile1]

Meron akong napakinggan na mga 2 channel sakura amps. Kung power ang paguusapan, malakas talaga.

Yun namang 737a, medyo mahal pero grabe ang lakas nito. 1400 daw ang wattage Napakinggan ko to with a Behringer 18inch speaker, nasa 8 o'clock pa lang ang volume, nalalaglag na ang mga alikabok mula sa kisame. High current yata ito,

Some commercial gears are medyo madaya when using volume controls.  They don't behave linearly.  It's possible you'd be getting already 90% of the rated power at the 10 O'clock position already.  So anything higher might be unlistenable.  That's a way of eliciting "hey look how powerful it is already at the 8 O'clock position, imagine how much more powerful at half-way mark!"  Not so.  You could get the amp to operate in the non-linear regions dishing out oodles of THDs past this point. 

[av_phile1]

napakamura pala naman nyan bro, yun nabuksan ko naka torroidal pa eh. hhmmm.... baka pwede bili ako nyan tapos kakalasin ko yun transformer! 

There's a 5-channel Sakura where I saw through its perforated top covers TWO(2) torroids. Just slightly over 2.5T if I recall right.  Might be a better choice for extracting the trannies.   

[JojoD818]

There's a 5-channel Sakura where I saw through its perforated top covers TWO(2) torroids. Just lightly over 2.5T if I recall right.  Might be a better choice for extracting the trannies.   

huwow! two toroid trannies for 2.5K? I really got to get me one of these! 

pardon: please excuse me especially to those who own this brand of amps. i'm just so excited because I have been doing the math on how these guys come up with their price and my goodness my computations are far too long. i just can't explain how they can keep their prices that looowww.

[rustyns]

Some commercial gears are medyo madaya when using volume controls.  They don't behave linearly.  It's possible you'd be getting already 90% of the rated power at the 10 O'clock position already.  So anything higher might be unlistenable.  That's a way of eliciting "hey look how powerful it is already at the 8 O'clock position, imagine how much more powerful at half-way mark!"  Not so.  You could get the amp to operate in the non-linear regions dishing out oodles of THDs past this point. 

Yes, that is probably the case. Newbie mistake on my part. 

[ATJr.]

But how the heck did they come up with that price? the Toshiba C5198/A1941 power transistors alone will cost them half the selling price. Beats the hell out of local ss amp manufacturers in my opinion.

jojo,
this is what we call "economy of scale!" you can buy those trannies for 500 a pair, but SAKURA buys them by the thousands! that way they get it for say maybe 20 pesos per pair! this hold true for other parts as welll!

guys,
let us please drop the term "watts rms" there is no such thing! rms is applied correctly to voltage and currents. now since power is voltage times current, the product therefore is not "rms", the correct term is watts average!

[ATJr.]

several 12amp rectifier diodes and +/-75V DC ang supply

with that kind of rail, it is possible to get 200watts into 8 ohms, using sine waves! however it also depends on the weight of the power transformer wether indeed it can deliver that kind of power on a sustained basis!

[ATJr.]

yun leach amp ko 75Amp bridge rectifier

ganito ba yon?

this one is a 72 amp bridge!

[av_phile1]

guys,
let us please drop the term "watts rms" there is no such thing! rms is applied correctly to voltage and currents. now since power is voltage times current, the product therefore is not "rms", the correct term is watts average!

True,  I won't defend it, but I can accept it.  The industry seems to have accepted this erroneous "lingo" of watts RMS so you see them even on the spec literatures of some of the more respected brands(who probably should know better than use the terms)   It has become an abbreviated way of saying CONTINTUOUS or AVERAGE power.  Sometimes in combination such as "continuous RMS." It may not mean anything technically, but it has become a rather useful spec comparing brands that use the same FTC measurement methods to arrive at it.  (Heck, I think even the FTC used those terms.  ) Definitely more meaningful than PMPO.   

[av_phile1]

with that kind of rail, it is possible to get 200watts into 8 ohms, using sine waves! however it also depends on the weight of the power transformer wether indeed it can deliver that kind of power on a sustained basis!

I think the rail fuse amperage and the rectified voltages can indicate the maximum INPUT power available to the amp, before blowing the fuses.  I'd imagine those rail fuses also indicate that the tranny would be capable of delivering that much current.   Then we have to consider that A/B amps are only around 60% efficient, wasting 40% of the available input power as heat dissipated in heatsinks.  Then you can arrive at a more realistic power OUTPUT before blowing the fuse, right?    

[JojoD818]

jojo,
this is what we call "economy of scale!" you can buy those trannies for 500 a pair, but SAKURA buys them by the thousands! that way they get it for say maybe 20 pesos per pair! this hold true for other parts as welll!

come on, don't you think I know that? I don't base my computations on "raon" prices. I have inquired wholesale prices directly from the parts respective manufacturers and suppliers. even by the tens of thousands those power transistors and trannies won't come close to your initial computations. even if the parts aren't original and comes from another manufacturer it still doesn't come close.

guys,
let us please drop the term "watts rms" there is no such thing! rms is applied correctly to voltage and currents. now since power is voltage times current, the product therefore is not "rms", the correct term is watts average!

this is like saying what you learn in school is wrong or what they teach you is wrong. what if the voltage wasn't used in your equation? what if a resistive load was used?

teach us so we may learn from our mistakes...

"no matter how good you are, you are bound to make dumb mistakes" - Neil Armstrong

[ATJr.]

jojo,

economy of scale is how amp makers make money! building one or two amps cost much more in the long run than making thousands! that is the point i am trying to make!

that is why being diy'ers we do not really save money, we spend more in fact becuase we buy parts in single pieces!

that is why i admire mr. andrew, of AMX, for offering such bang for the buck amps!

[ATJr.]

this is like saying what you learn in school is wrong or what they teach you is wrong.

i never said that, you did!
electrical concepts are found in books, many engineering books have these! it did not originate from me!
you can read this link, maybe you can learn from this:http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm

happy weekend!

[JojoD818]

jojo,

economy of scale is how amp makers make money! building one or two amps cost much more in the long run than making thousands! that is the point i am trying to make!

  i know that already, or should I say I get your point. but besides considering your point, it still doesn't add up the cost of their amps! even if they are paying cash up front to their suppliers, the question then is how do the suppliers be able to drop down their prices beyond the mark they got it from? or maybe the parts are obsolete and they get it for less. i am very impressed by their economics then.

[JojoD818]

i never said that, you did!
electrical concepts are found in books, many engineering books have these! it did not originate from me!
you can read this link, maybe you can learn from this:http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/rmspower.htm

happy weekend!

I know what I said, and what I said is based on what you said. I read books too you know, but I don't just base my assumptions on them.

I would gladly correct my education if for some reason the original author whom even Mr. Dawson does not know can even present his official paper to the industry accepted measuring body.

If that happens, then the electronics industry as well as the people who buy such products should refrain from using the term "rms" or using the "rms" term to quantisize an amp's power. However, until such time has come then the whole paper should also be meaningless until approved.

I sure hope they can find the original author and settle this rms hoolah once and for all.

[ATJr.]

power!

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/powerac.html

[JojoD818]

master tony, I think the proper thread to post that is to start a thread named Physiscs 101.

medyo OT na tayo sa Sakura amps.

 

[eXg]

Going back to Sakura....

They really are efficient (cost-wise and speed):  may tube amps na din sila   Unfortuntately, not that cheap like their SS amps.   

But check out their new 5.1 channel hybrid amp -- cool-looking (except for the mirror  ) and really looks like a good deal: P10k++ lg.  Wala akong mahiram na spec sheet kaya wala akong nakuhang details. hope soon.

[ATJr.]

hey eXG,

do they have ashowroom in raon or anyplace that you know of?

thanks,
tony

[JojoD818]

sa raon shopping center sa corner ng raon and quezon blvd ang dami naka display.

eXg,

I hope next time you can get the model#.  I'm not interested in their specs since they're kinda misleading. But I sure am willing to look what's ticking inside. 

[eXg]

I don't know of any Sakura showroom but this hybrid unit is in Spectra (Mkti). 

Briefly listened to it in HT setup and it was good. (Got a feeling that the subw was not connected correctly tho'.) Looks like 12ax7's on input stage.  Nobody can confirm exactly the tube.

Model: MARCH-006 (or so it reads  )

Massive champagne looks and WITH REMOTE!!!

[JojoD818]

cool! time for some research...

[eXg]

JojoD, Any luck in identifying those tubes?

[av_phile1]

Di kaya SakuraSystems yan from 47 labs?   Quite expensive, 60T for their model SA600 dishing out 35 watts using EL34 tubes and another model SA400 using 6L6 tubes costing 45T.  Called up Spectra on this hybrid push-pull type amps.  Scant information is available.  ALso made in China, presumably bought by Sakura but a far cry from the sakura amps pricing we know.    At those prices, I think you can buy a second hand Jolida or Antique Sound Lab at Sensible Audio. 

[JojoD818]

JojoD, Any luck in identifying those tubes?

nah, been very busy this past few days... but I'll keep my eyes open for that model....

 

[JojoD818]

eXg,

hindi pa nila alam sa raon yun model na may tubes, sayang sana pala nakita mo yun model nya. or baka naman late lang silang magkaroon ng ganoon na model.

 

[S_x_E]

mga sir,

pwede ba tong ganitong set up?

PC ---> Sakura Amp ---> Speakers?

pc with sound blaster audigy using analog connection..

kung pwede, pano?
anu ano mga kelangang connections?
saka true 5.1 ba makukuha kong sound?
me dd and dts decoder na kc ung sound card ko e..

thanks

[rustyns]

Hello sxe,

I don't have a Sakura amp nor a sound blaster audigy sound card. 

But my pc has a dvdrom. It also has a sound card that can be set up to output 5.1. When configured for 5.1, front L/R comes out of the speaker out, surround L/R comes out of the line out and and center/sub comes out of the mic socket.

It was unwieldy but it worked. Here's what I did:

1. configured the sound card for 5.1
2. connected 3 stereo amps to 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, 1 center speaker and 1 passive diy sub
3. connected 3 ordinary pairs of rca wires between the 3 amps and the sound card - I had to use 3 of those little things that have an ordinary male stereo jack at one end and two female rca connectors at the other.
4. Popped in a dvd and after SEVERAL minutes tweaking THREE volume controls, THREE balance knobs and the pc volume, I enjoyed watching.

In short, pwede 

Personally though, I would prefer not to watch using my pc dvd all the time.

[ATJr.]

I had to use 3 of those little things that have an ordinary male stereo jack at one end and two female rca connectors at the other.

hi,

they are called,stereo baby phone plug to rca cables...