Author Topic: Upgrade Advice  (Read 3017 times)

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Offline ca89056

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Upgrade Advice
« on: Mar 10, 2005 at 11:52 AM »
I currently have a simple Audio set up:

Wharf 9.1
NAD 521BEE
NAD 320BEE

It's just around one month old but the more i listen to it, the more I want to upgrade., I was thinking of swapping out the Wharfs for better speakers (Aurum Cantus 2-SV or Acoustic Energy AElite 2) or a better CDP (Cayin 15T). I can only buy one or the other. Any siggestions on which one will be more effective?

Bought my current setup on a whim. Was planning to buy something else but napadaan ako sa Sights and Sounds and before I knew it, nag-impulse buying na ako.  >:D

Thanks!

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #1 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 11:57 AM »
we have the same setup. but w/o the cd player. the speakers might be the weakest link there ;D

why, what's wrong w/ your setup? bitin ba sa details?

Offline renrico

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #2 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 12:11 PM »
Hi Sir ca89056,

I'm using a MA B2 with my NAD 320BEE and i'm happy with the performance so far - strong, clean sound, impressive bass extension for a bookshelf. You may want to consider this combination.

You may audition this combi at Spectra in Park Square, they carry both NAD and MA products.

my 2 cents lang po.....

Offline synchro

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #3 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 12:21 PM »
ca89056

change the speakers.  that upgrade alone will surely improve your system like night and day. Aside from the Aurum and AE why dont you also include in your shortlist the Dynaudio A42 at LIS shangrila.  Heard a NAD/DynA42 system and its performance is very good.  the price of the Dynes is quite steep as compared to the Aurum and AE but you do get lot for your money in terms of performance.

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #4 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 12:46 PM »
I currently have a simple Audio set up:

Wharf 9.1
NAD 521BEE
NAD 320BEE

It's just around one month old but the more i listen to it, the more I want to upgrade., I was thinking of swapping out the Wharfs for better speakers (Aurum Cantus 2-SV or Acoustic Energy AElite 2) or a better CDP (Cayin 15T). I can only buy one or the other. Any siggestions on which one will be more effective?

Bought my current setup on a whim. Was planning to buy something else but napadaan ako sa Sights and Sounds and before I knew it, nag-impulse buying na ako.  >:D

Thanks!

You can be more prudent in your upgrade if you can express in more concrete terms what you are looking for that you are missing in your current set-up.  If you find other systems  sound better, just remember that different set-ups sound different in different rooms. Whether better or just different depends on your listening preferrences.

I sometimes find myself in the same boat, feeling bored with my current set-up.  But often, getting a new CD title can lift the boredom or familiarity away. 

More often than not, changing gears will not result in better sonics.  Changing the accoustics of your room can do more wonders.  Changing speaker placement as well.  Bear in mind that the most expensive systems can sound awful in an untreated room, while a modest one can sound gorgeous in a well treated room.  Installing bass traps almost always will change the bass propagation for the better. With whatever set-up.

With all things equal, I agree that changing speakers can provide the most sonic difference in any upgrade. Whether it's an improvement or just a different listening experience, that depends on your value judgement.  Just my thoughts.




Offline ca89056

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #5 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 01:40 PM »
Thanks all for the inputs. :)

I'm new at this and I really can't express what's bothering me in the proper terms. I'll give it a shot though.

When I started looking around for audio gear, I couldn't hear that much of a difference between set-ups and ended up buying what the salesperson described as providing the most "bang for the buck." I thought that the best way develop my new hobby was to dive into it and learn through practice so I went ahead with the purchase. Since then, I've spent a lot of time auditioning gear and comparing them to my set-up. I'm now at a point where what I have doesn't cut it anymore.

I've tried to isolate placement and room acoustics from the equation by directly comparing Wharfs and other speakers if a shop has them. The highs of my Wharfs aren't as easy on the ears as others. Bass could be substantially better. I want more detail overall. I'm now bored and I want a rig that is as engaging as I know rigs could be.

Then again, all these could be psychological. Maybe my mind is trying to compensate for details it expects my untrained ears to hear but couldn't. Are my expectations unrealistic? All I'm sure of is that I want something that will deliver a better listening experience.  :-\

Offline mcbry

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #6 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 01:47 PM »
i suggest you change your speakers, bro... try to audition ae, ma b2 or usher speakers... architectural audio at greenbelt 1 carry all of these speakers... audition mo bro para you can get the best speaker that's pleasing to your ears.

enjoy,
 :)
« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2005 at 02:23 PM by mcbry »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #7 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 02:12 PM »
ca89056,

what types of music do you play? if i may suggest, try listening more to your music rather than your gears ;D or any other gears ;)

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #8 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 03:30 PM »
I was thinking along the same lines.  But more on LIVE music. 

As a budding audiophile, you must have some kind of sonic paradigm, benchmark or standard in mind.  In high-fidelity, live chamber (classical or jazz) orchestral or big band music using accoustic instruments (not amplified electric or electronic instruments) performed in a respected auditorium like the CCP (in the absence of a better one) often form the mental standard against which home playback gears are judged.  Afterall, you want as close as possible to real sounding performances at home as possible.  That's the goal of high fidelity.  Don't get me wrong though, you most likely will never achieve a playback system that can sound like the real thing.  No one will, with even the most expensive system.  But you can at least approach one to impart the necessary illusion when you close your eyes.  The quest to high fidelity is a road; the end is nowhere in sight.   ;D

Now if you're a Rock, Disco , fussion, techno or Pop fan, that can be difficult since, there is no music in any of these genre that uses un-amplified accoustic instruments in a live performance.  So getting any gear with some power or punch can often be impressively satisfying for these types.

But if you can learn to appreciate unamplified music in the jazz and classics then you're on the path serious audiophiles started with.  Then you can start auditioning playback systems that to your ears sound close to what you remember in an accoustic concert.  Such a standard would be the basis for any upgrades you want to pursue.

If OTH you use any home playback gears as your benchmark or standard, you will never be satisfied as there will always be something better out there; sky's the limit.  You have what is called a moving target, as your standard moves from your old gear to your new one, then the next.  And you can easily fall into the trap of starting to love and quest for better specified equipment, not better home reproduction of music.   There's a very thin line between loving your gears versus the music that they are supposed to reproduce.  Your upgrade should measure how close it is to sounding what you remember as live music, and not how far it is from your old gears.  There will always be gears out there that will certainly sound very far from what you have in varying degrees, but nowhere even close to sounding as real as you remember it to be.   And if your gears sound quite close to what you remember as live music within the budget you have alloted, there's a higher chance that can  live with your system for a relatively longer time.

Just a word of caution though.  While I say that a live musical performance is the standard,  home plaback gears can only approach but never sound like the real thing.  Bear in mind that the objective of Hi-Fi playback is the accurate reproduction of the RECORDED material.  OTH it is the objective of Hi-Fi recording to capture everything about a performance.  Hopefully, the recording engineers did a good job so that the resulting CDs or LPs when played on your home gears sound close to the original performance.  But the most an excellent home playback system can do is REVEAL a recording as transparently as technology allows, not reproduce a live performance.  That's why audiophiles spend a lot on expensive audiophile-quality recordings from special record labels that do a better job of recording than most to begin with.  (Lucky for this generation, the digital medium using high resolution encoding technolgy is making such quality recordings more accessible to many.)

So do try to listen to Music.  The real thing.   And perhaps what you have may already be closer to it than you think.  Just my thoughts.

Offline qguy

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #9 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 03:58 PM »
Changing Loudspeaker would provide the biggest  effect...large rooms go with floorstanders...not enough dough ?   check out the used market...theres an B&W 603 S2 for around 15K !!!..an excellent value imho.

another options would be adding a subwoofer.....shameless plug... there a subwoofer for sale an M&K for 10,000...by no other than qguy hehehe..adding a subwoofer would add depth and body to your existing setup...the difference would be like night and day...

IMHO..a decent bookshelf with a decent sub would sound better than most floorstanders with 6.5 woofers...

Offline taggart

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #10 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 04:04 PM »
just wanna add...you might wanna experiment with better interconnects and speaker cables.  you can also try biwiring and other tweaks if you still haven't done so. 

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #11 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 04:25 PM »
speaking of tweaks, if i may add, you can try the ff:

1. replace your preout/main-in links. other forums recommend vdh d102 mkiii (if you prefer the branded ones). don't ask me where to get those kc naghahanap din ako :) now, i just use audio pro rca cables. but whether generic or branded, it would still be better than the stock links (as these links are not even made of copper-daw. well, it seems so anyway.). also avoid high capacitance cables (ive read this from a review of the c320bee by audiofile. results in plummy bass daw)

2. biwiring. it feels right :) and use thicker cables.

3. turn off soft clipping. turn on tone-defeat.

4. experiment on speaker placement

the idea is try to extract everything you can from your system first. saves you a lot :)

Offline aHobbit

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #12 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 04:59 PM »
Changing Loudspeaker would provide the biggest  effect...large rooms go with floorstanders...not enough dough ?   check out the used market...theres an B&W 603 S2 for around 15K !!!..an excellent value imho.

another options would be adding a subwoofer.....shameless plug... there a subwoofer for sale an M&K for 10,000...by no other than qguy hehehe..adding a subwoofer would add depth and body to your existing setup...the difference would be like night and day...

IMHO..a decent bookshelf with a decent sub would sound better than most floorstanders with 6.5 woofers...

OR why not change your amp  ;D!

If you love your amp, then it is the speaker that is wrong.  ???

If you love your speaker, then it is the amp that is wrong.  ::)

Subwoofer will only improve the low end, but not the uneasy high end.  :P

Interconnects might be a shot in the air in your system.  ;)

Contact jojod818 and perhaps he can lend you the integrated GC amp he has.  >:D

This might be a cheaper route (no cost for audition  ;D if he allows) to check it out.

Might be a cheaper alternative if you decide to change to GC amp to match those beautifully rated speakers.  :)
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Offline ca89056

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #13 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 05:26 PM »
Guys,

Thanks for all the sensible advice.

Bumblebee, taggart, I'll try out your suggestions this weekend.

qguy, the B&W and M&K sound very tempting though. Must resist.....  >:D

av_phile1, you made a lot of good points. Medyo natamaan ako about loving your gear vs. the music itself. I have the habit pa naman of being a specs/tech junkie. This time, I should just sit back and learn to focus on the music. I guess the lesson I've learned here is to appreciate the output and only upgrade if my gear start to gets in the way of this.

Thanks again guys.

P.S.

Why don't we all meet up sometime so we can give faces to everyone here? First round's on me. :)

Offline qguy

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #14 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 05:39 PM »
First round on you... PERFECT..  1 bottle of Johny Walker for me...Av_phile..whats your poison ?

Offline ca89056

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #15 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 05:46 PM »
... of beer.  ;)

Offline Philander

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #16 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 05:46 PM »
ca89056,

You have a very good audio set-up.

I just want to say for the nth time that my Wharfs 8.1 releases its potential after 6 months, I know its long, you may want to wait and continuously use you system.

Wharfs speakers are certainly good in alto voice ranges and nylon guitars/strings, unbeatable for its price/performance factor.

Patience is virtue.

Offline qguy

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #17 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 06:05 PM »
Break-in of  loudspeakers is a must.... The bass would improve ..to some extent even the highs ..
not to put down the 9.1 or the 8.1  its an excellent value ...but a 4.5-6.5 inch woofer has its limits...and can only do so much...


Offline bumblebee

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #18 on: Mar 10, 2005 at 07:34 PM »
Guys,

Thanks for all the sensible advice.

Bumblebee, taggart, I'll try out your suggestions this weekend.

qguy, the B&W and M&K sound very tempting though. Must resist.....  >:D

av_phile1, you made a lot of good points. Medyo natamaan ako about loving your gear vs. the music itself. I have the habit pa naman of being a specs/tech junkie. This time, I should just sit back and learn to focus on the music. I guess the lesson I've learned here is to appreciate the output and only upgrade if my gear start to gets in the way of this.

Thanks again guys.

P.S.

Why don't we all meet up sometime so we can give faces to everyone here? First round's on me. :)

uy first round daw :) baka sumama lahat ng members dito :) ala ka na pambili ng aurum cantus nyan hehehe


Offline av_phile1

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #19 on: Mar 11, 2005 at 05:43 PM »
First round on you... PERFECT..  1 bottle of Johny Walker for me...Av_phile..whats your poison ?

Mango-orange juice lang.  ;D  Eight O'clock puede na.   ;D

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #20 on: Mar 11, 2005 at 06:25 PM »

av_phile1, you made a lot of good points. Medyo natamaan ako about loving your gear vs. the music itself. I have the habit pa naman of being a specs/tech junkie. This time, I should just sit back and learn to focus on the music. I guess the lesson I've learned here is to appreciate the output and only upgrade if my gear start to gets in the way of this.


Glad to be of help.  Just to let you know, I started as a tech junkie too.  And during my LP days, I spent more time tweaking and maintaining my gears more than listening.  I can't recall spending even 30 minutes straight just listening to my collection.  I could always find something to tinker with and find fault in.  These days, I could empty my CD shelves and spend the whole day savouring the music as if my gears did not exist.   ;D

 
« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2005 at 06:26 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline ca89056

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #21 on: Mar 17, 2005 at 01:25 PM »
Tried repositioning my speakers and got some thicker (inexpensive) speaker cables. I swear it sounds better now. I'll probably get new preout / main in cables. Nothing fancy or branded, just decent RCA cables to replace the stock connectors.

:)

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #22 on: Mar 17, 2005 at 01:52 PM »
Tried repositioning my speakers and got some thicker (inexpensive) speaker cables. I swear it sounds better now. I'll probably get new preout / main in cables. Nothing fancy or branded, just decent RCA cables to replace the stock connectors.

:)

good for you ca :) i use audio pro rca for the preout/main-in. 350 lang sa ACE.

also try biwiring :)

Offline kid

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #23 on: Mar 18, 2005 at 10:38 AM »
ca89056,

philander is right, you have a warm sounding system. i myself owned a 302bee before and like its characteristics. since, its only a month pa lang naman yang system mo why not enjoy it first... may break-in period pa yan... there are so many things to do like the guys posted.

sa akin yung isang platitong mani....  ;D

Offline soundtrip

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #24 on: Jun 25, 2006 at 01:49 PM »
You can be more prudent in your upgrade if you can express in more concrete terms what you are looking for that you are missing in your current set-up.  If you find other systems  sound better, just remember that different set-ups sound different in different rooms. Whether better or just different depends on your listening preferrences.

I sometimes find myself in the same boat, feeling bored with my current set-up.  But often, getting a new CD title can lift the boredom or familiarity away. 

More often than not, changing gears will not result in better sonics.  Changing the accoustics of your room can do more wonders.  Changing speaker placement as well.  Bear in mind that the most expensive systems can sound awful in an untreated room, while a modest one can sound gorgeous in a well treated room.  Installing bass traps almost always will change the bass propagation for the better. With whatever set-up.

With all things equal, I agree that changing speakers can provide the most sonic difference in any upgrade. Whether it's an improvement or just a different listening experience, that depends on your value judgement.  Just my thoughts.




hi there,
but what are bass traps?
 ???

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #25 on: Jun 28, 2006 at 04:45 PM »
hi there,
but what are bass traps?
 ???

Bass traps are room treatments meant to minimize standing waves prevalent among basss freqeuencies. The term is not what it does.  Bass traps actualy improve bass response in your room.  For a more detailed explanation, try to do some google search or visit www.audioholics.com..

Offline jerix

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Re: Upgrade Advice
« Reply #26 on: Jun 29, 2006 at 08:48 AM »
masyadong marami ang nabasa ni CA89056 dito at nagkaroon ng "info overload" kaya naguluhan na cia  ;D
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