Topic: Sound Difference bet. SS and Tube Amp

[s2kov]

Ask dracula, he has Prima Luna Prologue One!

Planning to buy Prologue One for my B&W 603. Any advise from owners? Thanks.

[bumblebee]

No dont think its an insult. Its just a personal opinion and people can agree or disagree.

Iba kasi dating e. How can one agree 0%

[MAtZTER]

I am not sure, so I agree 50% 

[aHobbit]

In my 2 cents observation:

Tube Amps

- Sounds smooth and relaxed,
- More suited for music with emphasis on vocals (old school music)
- Transient response is quite slow- makes music sound dragging especially those with emphasis on
  percussion  like flamenco. laurindo almeida, etc
- Clean treble but not engaging
- Limited type of music

Solid State
- Punchy (bass drum effect more realistic)
- Faster transient response (sounds more engaging)
- Treble have tendency to be harsh (but depends on the speaker system used) 
- Vocals may sound comparable to tube amp when paired with a properly matched speaker system
- Will suit to different type of music.
 
Just my opinion po.

Very balanced assessment.
That's how I found the differences when scouting for my amps and speaker, with my test materials.
And from your post, it is not a really a matter of tube or SS alone, but how you would build the entire system - matching components & matching music materials! 

With that good an assessment, you will save a lot of money too!     

[john5479]

The lack of dynamics some experience with tube amps is gone if you use the appropriate speakers. same as with some solid state amps that will sound harsh if paired with the wrong speakers. Its all about system matching.  Both tubes and ss if designed properly and matched with appropriate equipment will sound great. I've heard tube setups playing big band music and i don't hear any lack of dynamics or punch..same as an ss setup which sounds smooth and engaging.

[aHobbit]

The lack of dynamics some experience with tube amps is gone if you use the appropriate speakers. same as with some solid state amps that will sound harsh if paired with the wrong speakers. Its all about system matching.  Both tubes and ss if designed properly and matched with appropriate equipment will sound great. I've heard tube setups playing big band music and i don't hear any lack of dynamics or punch..same as an ss setup which sounds smooth and engaging.

Oh, you have unearthed to the public our deep secret!     

It's our secret to audio Nirvana!     

It is also my secret how to save money!    Buy cheap ear cleaner, and use your ears when evaluating your entire systems!

[synchro_01]

In my 2 cents observation:

Tube Amps

- Sounds smooth and relaxed --> a big yes to this. romantic sounding is my description
- More suited for music with emphasis on vocals (old school music) --> depends on the design of the tube amp and speaker combo..others excel in rock, dance, metal etc as well as an S/S amp.
- Transient response is quite slow- makes music sound dragging especially those with emphasis on
  percussion  like flamenco. laurindo almeida, etc --> again...depends on what type of tube amp and speaklers used
- Clean treble but not engaging --> I find tubes to be more engaging in the mids and highs as compared to an S/S
- Limited type of music --> well if your tubes are of the low powered variety then this might apply but the big valve ones are exempted from this. again...depends on the design. not all tube amps are created equal

Solid State
- Punchy (bass drum effect more realistic)   --> very true
- Faster transient response (sounds more engaging).    -->  true on the attack observation
- Treble have tendency to be harsh (but depends on the speaker system used)  may very well be the source material or the other components in the system that contributes to the harshness. also heard tube based systems that are harsh on the top end. speakers may very well be the culprit as well.
- Vocals may sound comparable to tube amp when paired with a properly matched speaker system   ---> many have tried to design such an S/S amp...no one has suceeded. tubes are a different animal altogether
- Will suit to different type of music.  --->a big YES...just like Tubes also.
 
Just my opinion po.

I hope you dont mind...I posted some of my opinions as well. cheers  

[Superman]

guys, i agree with john5479, 100%!!!

In my 2 cents observation:

Tube Amps

- Sounds smooth and relaxed,
- More suited for music with emphasis on vocals (old school music)
- Transient response is quite slow- makes music sound dragging especially those with emphasis on
  percussion  like flamenco. laurindo almeida, etc
- Clean treble but not engaging
- Limited type of music

Solid State
- Punchy (bass drum effect more realistic)
- Faster transient response (sounds more engaging)
- Treble have tendency to be harsh (but depends on the speaker system used) 
- Vocals may sound comparable to tube amp when paired with a properly matched speaker system
- Will suit to different type of music.
 
Just my opinion po.

letor, please do not take the comments here personally as these are also opinions, just like what you've posted...

i've had a chance to own both SS and tube amps and i've stayed with tubes...anyway, please continue to post your observations in the different gears you come across...thanks!

[JojoD818]

guys, i agree with john5479, 100%!!!

letor, please do not take the comments here personally as these are also opinions, just like what you've posted...

i've had a chance to own both SS and tube amps and i've stayed with tubes...anyway, please continue to post your observations in the different gears you come across...thanks!

i think this is what Letor is pertaining to Supes...

Iba kasi dating e. How can one agree 0%

 

[Audioboy]

i think this is what Letor is pertaining to Supes...

 

agree 0% = disagree 100%

anything wrong there? 

[JojoD818]

agree 0% = disagree 100%

anything wrong there? 

I believe that each and everyone of us here are entitled to agree or disagree, wether it's 0% or 100%. It's a free country.

[arnoldc]

If I disagree (I agree 0%) with Letor's post, it does not mean he's wrong in his opinion. That's his OPINION, and I expressed disagreement on that opinion. My EXPERIENCE tells otherwise.

I like rock- progressive, industrial, metal, and to say that tubes can't do justice to these music, based ON MY EXPERIENCE, is not true. I have heard various SS gears that sound lame compared to other tube gears. SS gears always punchy? Nah, I've heard a name brand SS amp that sounds too 'bading' when playing rock music. Tubes always sound 'mataba'? Nah, there are a lot of colored tube amps, preamps, but there are also a lot of transparent tube amps, preamps.

Some forumers most likely know my biases- low-wattage single-ended triodes (I'm still trying to like PP), transparent tube preamps, high-efficiency speakers, solid-state phono stage, non-tubed CD player, and of course music from classical to heavy metal.

The opinion stated by Letor covers how many SS amps, Tube amps? What were the ancilliary equipment? Speakers, Preamp, cables, etc.?

[odyopayl]

Sound difference between SS & tube is very subjective. We cant say tube is better than SS & vise versa. It all depends on what type of Speakers or equipment you have. Let me set an example, those Martin Logans, JM Eutophia & Genesis speakers are often paired with SS.
B&W 800 series for me sound good using MF amplifiers.
SS & Tube has it's own advantages as well as disadvantages.
SS
Halcro, MF, Blue Circle, Mark Levinson, krell etch. are expensive SS source for a good sounding amplifier. There are tubes affordable for everyone for a heavenly listening pleasure without breaking a bank. IMHO

[synchro_01]

Sound difference between SS & tube is very subjective. We cant say tube is better than SS & vise versa.

we should not say one is better over the other because that is when subjectivity comes in but we can safely say that there is indeed a sonic difference between the two that even the uninitiated/non audiophile/newbie can hear.

[Superman]

Sound difference between SS & tube is very subjective. We cant say tube is better than SS & vise versa. It all depends on what type of Speakers or equipment you have. Let me set an example, those Martin Logans, JM Eutophia & Genesis speakers are often paired with SS.
B&W 800 series for me sound good using MF amplifiers.
SS & Tube has it's own advantages as well as disadvantages.
SS
Halcro, MF, Blue Circle, Mark Levinson, krell etch. are expensive SS source for a good sounding amplifier. There are tubes affordable for everyone for a heavenly listening pleasure without breaking a bank. IMHO

just out of curiosity, have you owned these gears before or by any chance have heard these gears?? if so, then please share with us your impressions based on your own experience in order to be more of help to our fellow members...can you share with us what you've just mentioned about advantages and disadvantages?...hope you can be specific as i want to learn more about people's experiences when it comes to comparing tube and SS gears... thank you!

[Superman]

If I disagree (I agree 0%) with Letor's post, it does not mean he's wrong in his opinion. That's his OPINION, and I expressed disagreement on that opinion. My EXPERIENCE tells otherwise.

I like rock- progressive, industrial, metal, and to say that tubes can't do justice to these music, based ON MY EXPERIENCE, is not true. I have heard various SS gears that sound lame compared to other tube gears. SS gears always punchy? Nah, I've heard a name brand SS amp that sounds too 'bading' when playing rock music. Tubes always sound 'mataba'? Nah, there are a lot of colored tube amps, preamps, but there are also a lot of transparent tube amps, preamps.

Some forumers most likely know my biases- low-wattage single-ended triodes (I'm still trying to like PP), transparent tube preamps, high-efficiency speakers, solid-state phono stage, non-tubed CD player, and of course music from classical to heavy metal.

The opinion stated by Letor covers how many SS amps, Tube amps? What were the ancilliary equipment? Speakers, Preamp, cables, etc.?

knowing arnoldc's biases, i only agree 100% to what he's saying...why? because i've had a chance to listen to his system do justice to rock music, and i mean rock music!...imagine using a 2-3watts amplifier playing rock? playing rock music using a 300B amp (approx. 9-10wpc)...there are even solid state amps that really "cannot" play rock music...i've had a chance to own SS amps before i got converted to tubes...it's a must that we consider associated equipment (i.e. source, cables, etc.) to have a more accurate comparison of the two...just my 2-cents

[eRaSeR]

Wow sir odyopayl,

Those Mark Levinson amp were only seen in the audio store. Hope to hear it also.

[arnoldc]

I've heard a couple of Mark Levinson amps- No. 331, No. 336, and the monoblocks No. 33H

Coupled with Mark Levinson preamp (I believe No. 32), they are warm sounding to my ears.

The speakers were Verity Parsifal or Dynaudio 1.8 or Dynaudio 3.3

[odyopayl]

just out of curiosity, have you owned these gears before or by any chance have heard these gears?? if so, then please share with us your impressions based on your own experience in order to be more of help to our fellow members...can you share with us what you've just mentioned about advantages and disadvantages?...hope you can be specific as i want to learn more about people's experiences when it comes to comparing tube and SS gears... thank you!

Sorry I never owned it, but just like what i've said I've heard. What I can say, I'm the one who set-up one of my boss listening area & audio eqpt(he live in Alabang 400) the speakers are B&W 805S & driven by X-150 Musical Fidelity We bought this in Singapore the time we attended Semicon Show. My observation the music is so clean & warm you may never think you are listening to a SS Amp . By the way, the source is X-Ray CD player.  I've also help him to set-up his Home theater compose of straight 600 series B & W driven by Yamaha AZ9 Receiver Amp.

We're planning to upgrade his sound system to Martin Logan or Sonus to be driven by Krell power-amp. I'll ask him if he allow me to take picture of the set-up to post on this thread.

[odyopayl]

Wow sir odyopayl,

Those Mark Levinson amp were only seen in the audio store. Hope to hear it also.

Yah it's true, you can attend the other site CES do know the schedule, you can experience so many expensive gears that you can only own in your dreams. (hehehe)

[odyopayl]

we should not say one is better over the other because that is when subjectivity comes in but we can safely say that there is indeed a sonic difference between the two that even the uninitiated/non audiophile/newbie can hear.

Still subjective, there are lot of factor to consider, Genre of music, equipment matching etch. Sometimes listening to a good SS amplifier will triggered you to have one also. In terms of sound & Economy, I can say a 10K tube amp (I'll mention one, Tubong B) will sound better than a 10K SS amp (Brand new) (hope nobody will react).

[Superman]

just out of curiosity, have you owned these gears before or by any chance have heard these gears?? if so, then please share with us your impressions based on your own experience in order to be more of help to our fellow members...can you share with us what you've just mentioned about advantages and disadvantages?...hope you can be specific as i want to learn more about people's experiences when it comes to comparing tube and SS gears... thank you!

Sorry I never owned it, but just like what i've said I've heard. What I can say, I'm the one who set-up one of my boss listening area(he leave in Alabang 400) the speakers are B&W 805S & driven by X-150 Musical Fidelity We bought this in Singapore the time we attended Semicon Show. My observation the music is so clean & warm you may never thing you are listening to a SS Amp . By the way, the source is X-Ray CD player.  I've also help him to set-up his Home theater compose of straight 600 series B & W driven by Yamaha AZ9 Receiver Amp.

We're planning to upgrade his sound system to Martin Logan or Sonus to be driven by Krell power-amp. I'll ask him if he allow me to take picture of the set-up to post on this thread.

HUH

it's OK, you've said you've heard

you helped him set-up his listening area?? or his audio system?? you mean lagi siyang umaalis ng Alabang 400 (he leave in Alabang 400)?? kung sa bagay madalas din naman akong umalis ng bahay

bro, i will really never "thing"...i was never created to be a thing, but i believe we were created to "think"

...well, there's a Martin Logan The Quest being sold at the marketplace, please check it out, thanks! (shameless plug)

di ko lang kasi ma-gets eh, please elaborate further for the benefit of everyone...

thanks! PEACE!


Pahabol:

Still subjective, there are lot of factor to consider, Genre of music, equipment matching etch. Sometimes listening to a good SS amplifier will triggered you to have one also. In terms of sound & Economy, I can say a 10K tube amp (I'll mention one, Tubong B) will sound better than a 10K SS amp (Brand new) (hope nobody will react).

gaano karaming "factor" ba yan?? bro, na-trigger na ba?? o mati-trigger pa lang??

PEACE!


...di ko lang mapigilang mag-inquire, thanks!

may nag-react na po - AKO!   PEACE!

[eRaSeR]

You're truly an idol sir arnoldc!

Aside from those experience with Mark Levinson amps, you owned several tube amps i saw on other thread:

3. arnoldc - DIY 300B (JE Labs), DIY 2a3 (JE Labs), DIY 245 (my own design), DIY 807 (Gordon Rankin), DIY
                   Foreplay 12AU7 tubes, DIY JE Labs Pre-amp 76 + 6SN7 + 5AR4 tubes

IDOL!!!!!!!!!!!

I've heard a couple of Mark Levinson amps- No. 331, No. 336, and the monoblocks No. 33H

Coupled with Mark Levinson preamp (I believe No. 32), they are warm sounding to my ears.

The speakers were Verity Parsifal or Dynaudio 1.8 or Dynaudio 3.3

[eRaSeR]

sir odyopayl,

You're next since i saw you have several tube gears you own

23. odyopayl - Consonance M100, Super Tono Pre-amp, Ultimate 2a3
 

[eRaSeR]

Would anyone owned or heard the Prologue One tube amplifier?

Saw it on the The Absolute Sound magazine, very nice looking!

[kimpao]

eraser, PM sent, thanks!

OT lang :

Ahahaha!!!!!......... Jen alam ko yan PM na yan. 

[odyopayl]

HUH

it's OK, you've said you've heard

you helped him set-up his listening area?? or his audio system?? you mean lagi siyang umaalis ng Alabang 400 (he leave in Alabang 400)?? kung sa bagay madalas din naman akong umalis ng bahay

bro, i will really never "thing"...i was never created to be a thing, but i believe we were created to "think"

...well, there's a Martin Logan The Quest being sold at the marketplace, please check it out, thanks! (shameless plug)

di ko lang kasi ma-gets eh, please elaborate further for the benefit of everyone...

thanks! PEACE!


Pahabol:

gaano karaming "factor" ba yan?? bro, na-trigger na ba?? o mati-trigger pa lang??

PEACE!


...di ko lang mapigilang mag-inquire, thanks!

may nag-react na po - AKO! PEACE!

Sorry po, tao lang

[odyopayl]

sir odyopayl,

You're next since i saw you have several tube gears you own

23. odyopayl - Consonance M100, Super Tono Pre-amp, Ultimate 2a3

Brod, I never owned an ultimate 2a3 but I had experienced it, it's very good (courtesy of member). Anyway, thru this I'm building my own JE labs 300B. I'll post my review once done.

[Superman]

just out of curiosity, have you owned these gears before or by any chance have heard these gears?? if so, then please share with us your impressions based on your own experience in order to be more of help to our fellow members...can you share with us what you've just mentioned about advantages and disadvantages?...hope you can be specific as i want to learn more about people's experiences when it comes to comparing tube and SS gears... thank you!

babalikan ko lang po, hope you can "share your experience" with the gears you've mentioned to help our fellow members...please also highlight the associated equipment like speakers, cables, software, etc...

salamat po!


PS: Good luck on your JE Labs 300B project!! hope you got a circuit drawing - schematic diagram already

[arnoldc]

@odyopayl, don't make the 6SN7->300B version. make the DX version- 76-6SN7-300B. if you have trouble with 76, I will offer you a pair of 56 (different heater voltage) at a friendly price. I may also have a pair of 76 I can let go (pero mas mahal acquisition price ko at P1,500 each from master Rene Rivo)

@eraser, outdated na yang post ko sorry about that. I now have three physical amps (a) RCA 2A3 + RCA redbase 5691 driver with MagneQuest DS-025 OPT, (b) UX-245 + 5842(417A) driver with Tamura F-475 OPT, and (c) my tri-amp- 10Y (1W), UX-250 (3W), 300B (6W) + 5842(417A) driver on a single chassis with Hammond 1628 OPT and switchable operation. I also have a new Western Electric preamp that is so transparent, you either love it or hate it. 

I don't have a pretty speaker to talk about... it's DIY Altec 406-8Y (10") with Oxford mid-horn and Fostex FT-17H tweeter using Oil caps and Auricaps for crossover. The woofer is mounted on an Altec 614 cabinet (DIY ni handyman) and the rest are sitting on top. The overall sensitivity is estimated to be 95dB. All wiring is Audience hookup wire and speaker cable is DIY made also from Audience hookup wire.

@superman, what you heard before is nothing compared to this setup