Author Topic: What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?  (Read 68839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2002 at 12:14 AM »
My audiophile friend and I have the same opinion about tubes amps and their owners.  It's a status symbol, pure and symple.  It's no different from having antique furnitures, collection of old coins, jewelries or vintage cars.  They're relatively more expensive and gives an  aura of "breeding" to the owners.  That means, they came from the old rich families.  



Are you for real? Come on. No one can be that narrow-minded.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2002 at 01:11 AM by Racio »

Offline lexmil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 293
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2002 at 11:45 AM »
To corssty,

Yes, I have listenned to tube amps.  A lot of times from my father's sound system that had a Carver(?) and a Mark Levinson amp and another brand too esoteric for me to remember.  They are driving very large Klipsch and Accoustic Research speakers.  These amps were impressive in their days (late 60s  up to 70s).  Sometime in 1978 my father, on my advice as a UP Electrical Engineering student, shifted to solid state with the purchase of a Carver separetes and then a Sansui integrated and he was most impressed.  Since then the tupe amps were disposed off.  The speakers became Celestion and JBL in another room.

I have also listened to a colleague's home system that have newer tube amps from a Conrad-Johnson for which he paid an arm and a leg in my terms.  He was bragging and extolling the virtues of tubes as well as a Linn-Sondek tonearm-turntable combination over solidstate and CDs. Not impressed. They don't sound any better from my Onkyo-Wharfdale set-up.  Just different.  I just kept my mouth shut from offending him.  (Sorry folks out there who were offended by my earlier message, I failed to reign in on my nasty thoughts in this venue.)

Anyway,  suffice it say I know what I'm talkng about.  I stand by my conviction in response to the title of this thread : what's the biggest reason you won't go for tubes.  There's no known technical superiority of tubes over solid state.  Period.  And yes, I agree with you that not all tube lovers are old rich. That is just my impression based on experience.  

To Racco,

I am for real and yes maybe narrow-minded.  But no more than those who espouse tubes and LPs.



Offline corrsty

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Spin the black circle!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2002 at 01:30 PM »
Hi lexmill,

I'm glad you had lots of experience with tube gears before you formed your opinion of them.


This is a very subjective hobby.  Much like musical preferences, be it classical, jazz, rock, pop, hip hop (mmmm???  ;) ) etc.  I think there's one thing almost all of us can agree on regarding this hobby and that's personal satisfaction be it with tube amps or solid state amp; vinyls or cd/sacd/dvd-x; crossover or crossoverless speakers; high end cables or stock red and white rca interconnects; mini component to table top radio.  We just want to enjoy the music and the subjective high it gives us through our "toys".

Rgds,
corrsty

Offline hyperion

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Tubehead!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2002 at 01:37 PM »
Lexmil,

I am 29, also a BS EE from UP, and an unrepentant tubehead and anti-digital audiophile hehehe. :D

Technical superiority has nothing to do with sound. CD is technically superior to analog with its theoretical wide dynamic range, high S/N ratio etc but in the end, it is only an ergonomically superior media. Hence the need for a superior digital media like SACD to supercede the evil cd. Read this: http://www.anstendig.org/CDandDig.html In

Are tubes for the old/rich? No way. Most of the truly rich audiophiles I know tend to go for solid state because they are too lazy for tubes! :D

Most audiophiles, even when they got top notch gear tend to be dumb when it comes to system setup (particularly speaker placement) and almost always result to mediocre sound.

I am a very open minded person. I would like solid state (particularly in the realm of digital switching amplifiers) and digital playback to succeed but right now, they dont cut it as a medium for musical expression.

regards,

Hyperion




Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2002 at 02:24 PM »

To Racco,

I am for real and yes maybe narrow-minded.  But no more than those who espouse tubes and LPs.




lexmil,

LOL…man, you really crack me up!  ;D Well, in light of what you’ve written here, I guess it’s safe to say that being an electrical engineer won’t necessarily make an audiophile out of commoner Dick from next door. The degree certainly makes you realize that SS are “technically superior” than tubes. But hey, almost everyone here knew that from the onset. Tsk tsk.  ;)

I stress “technically”, because it is. No one here disputes that. But how about “sonically”? It all becomes extremely subjective doesn’t it? Oh why oh why did VAC, Janis, VTL, Sonic Frontiers, Cary Audio, Audio Research, CJ, et al put up a billion $ industry behind valve amplification? There’s a "demand" perhaps?  ;)

It really boils down to one’s personal taste. And I find no need to dwell in “gear bashing” in this forum. However, I’m inclined to point out that your idiosyncratic take and bigoted remarks about tube and turntable users are uncalled for, thoroughly abhorrent and exhibits poor form. Unfortunately, it says a lot about your personality.

Oh well, as they say: “in every village, you’ll always find one”… and guess what?...you’re it.

Have a nice day.
-Racco (oh I mean Racio!)  8)

P.S. (To get the secret phrase from my previous post in this thread: connect the words in bold fonts.)  ;)
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2002 at 02:23 AM by Racio »

rtsy

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2002 at 03:25 PM »
lexmil,

since you don't like tube amps, can i help you by taking ownership of your dad's carver tube amps?  ;-)

tagal ko nang gusto subukan yang tubes but never had the $$$ and time to do so.

seriously folks, i think it's high time we cool off and enjoy music the way we like 'em regardless if that means S/S or tube, CD of SACD/DVD-A or vinyl/tape, or if you are a true purist, live!  (When's the Diana Krall concert here?)

Personally, I enjoy learning from both S/S and tube camps (or in my limited experence, tube-sounding S/S like MF and Audio Analogue).  I think they both have their pros and cons albeit tubes are disadvantaged by their price tag (at least on brand new stuff available here).

Offline lexmil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 293
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2002 at 12:53 PM »
For all you tube lovers, pardon me for "tube-bashing" as I never intended that when I joined in your discussion.  On second thought, that would be the effect when one truthfully answers the question in this forum: what's the biggest reason why you won't go for tubes?  Am I wrong?  Coz if I were a tube-basher I would rain in on the parade of those in  this other forum on tubes.  But I wasn't interested in that forum.

This forum seems to be getting livelier than when I started.  Let me just respond to some of your points.

First,
In the field of Hi-Fi, I really cannot divorce the terms "technical" which is usually intechanged with "technological" from the word "sonical."  For the simple reason that the faithful capture and reproduction of sonics require a technological process.  Hence, it is absurd and a contradiction for a technology that is technically superior to be sonically inferior.

You may be right in saying CD did not do its job well.  The first 3-5 years were birth pangs so to speak.  The recordng studios failed to capitalize on the CD's capability by just pressing old LP formats with their inherent EQ settings resulting in shrill sonics. But they have learned from that.  And the improvements promised by SACD and DVD-audio over CD are essentrially based on the same technology as espoused by the theorem of Nihqyst and deployed in CDs.  The digital potentials are immense and goes beyond the limitations of analogue.  

But I will not ellaborate on this as I agree with you that listenning is subjective.  Maybe my technical knowledge colours my subjective taste too well.  There are those like some of you who can divorce the two.  Like cheeselovers who, despite knowing and having seen under the microscope the harmless but horrible looking bacteria inherent in any kind of cheese, continues to love cheese.  

Second,
I think the question that should be asked is not whether I have compared tube sounds with ss sounds before forming my judgement.  I have answered that. But the better question is:  Have you heard a live symphony orchestra and compared the sound with your home system? Not just in a concert but in a rehearsal  and up close?

At the risk of bragging, I have heard the sound of a live orchestra up close in at least 4 occasions.  Twice at the Music Center in LA for the rehearsals of Phantom of the Opera in 1991 courtesty of a TNT batchmate who was a stage hand there.  Twice in 1988 at the CCP stage and backstage for the rehearsals of the CCP Philharmonic courtesy of a friend who was a Bulwagang Gantimpala ensemble member.

We were joking with each other and my CCP friend succinctly encapsulated the entire issue of Hi-Fi in reverse .  He said in not so many words  "Hmm, this CCP Philharmonic sounds just like my Yamaha..."

My experience in those rehearsals have revealed to me that the sounds coming from the violin and the violas are anything but smooth and silky.  Certainly not from the grainy reed instruments.  These instruments contain bursts of fundamental frequencies that tubes and coupling transformers cannot, because of the physics of their operation, respond accurately.  The phenomenon is SLEW RATE - the time it takes for an electronic device to respond to burst of amplitude changes in any frequency.  Tubes lag behind solid state in this aspect.  Putting it simply, Tubes will say "hing" instead of "thing."  Likewise, tubes have a gentler rolloff starting at not so high frequencies that they miss out on the high-order harmonics that gives texture to an intrument EARLIER THAN SOLID STATE.   Transistors are known to pass frequencies extending from DC to 100KHZ.  Ofcourse, the human ear cannot hear beyond 20Khz, but the difference in allowing high order harmonnics to pass though unimpeded as compared with the restricted bandwidth of Tubes further exlains the smoothness of Tubes versus the biting clarity and often grainy shrillness of solid state.  Unfortunately, the real world of musical instruments is precisely that - biting and grainy.  Not smooth as we would like to hear them.

You may argue that not everybody listens to music up close to the musicians.  That's true.  My experience is probably an exception.  But again, I have heard what's it's like up close and I really don't care if the orchaestra sounds smooth in the bleacher section far at the back (high order harmanics's short wavelength may not reach you at the back and you get more reverberating waves that cancel or superimpose on fundamental frequencies to make them sound smooth if not muffled at the back).  Because in the back of my mind, I know that my ss amp reproduces all the frequencies generated by an instrument at a fast enough response rate.  And to me that is what Hi-fi is all about.  Not whether its sounds smooth and pleasant or shrill and grainy.  (The grainy and bitng textures of many instruments in the orchestra tempted me to cup my ears during those rehearsals.)  Further, tubes are known for their soft clipping charateristic at high volumes - another factor for their sounding smooth and silky even at high levels.

I said to myself forget about thiis brouhaha about tubes vs ss before I wrote this.  And I did not want to go technical, but I just did.  Sorry folks.  Go ahead and enjoiy your tube amps.  I agree with you they are pleasant to hear sonically over SS. I've heard my tube loving friend play my CD of Sir George Solti's reading of Mussorgskey's Night on Bald Mountain  and the more pedestrian Carlo Guilini's Beethoven Fifth Symphony.  They are very pleasing to hear.  Excellent stereo imaging and depth, silky musical transitions. Same as that in my Onkyo.  What is lacking is the bite and the harsh forceful urgency in the strings and reed instruments that should be in those materials.  (It's like those old Hollywood movies where the glamour of Greta Garbo or Rita Hayworth are further capitalized by the smooth skin tones on screen as compared with the brutal very revealing skin tones of Sandra Bullock or the freckled Julianne Moore in today's movies.)

Unfortuanelty or fortunately, I prefer reality over pleasantry.  This is. again an elaboration to my reply on  question in this forum. For those who think my "tube-bashing" is a reflection of my personality, your analsys is very shallow.  Because if I had a foul one, I would have antagonized my tube loving friend who was bragging about his conrad-johnson.  I just shut my mouth.  No such prudence here.  Afterall, the forum is about why I won't go for tubes.  Or is it the opposite?



Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2002 at 04:10 PM »


I said to myself forget about thiis brouhaha about tubes vs ss before I wrote this.  And I did not want to go technical, but I just did.  Sorry folks.  Go ahead and enjoiy your tube amps.  I agree with you they are pleasant to hear sonically over SS.



Hmm... apology accepted then.


Offline Mika

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 193
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2002 at 04:21 PM »
mga sirs,

i learned a lot from this thread...

there's no good or bad set-up in this world. if you're happy and contented with what you have - congrats!
be it a branded tube / solid-state gear or some japanese walkman. if you think what you're hearing is pleasing already - good!, let your own ear be the judge.

now let's enjoy some music!!

mika

p.s. now can we lock this thread? ( joke only  ;D )

Offline corrsty

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Spin the black circle!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2002 at 03:26 PM »
Points made by lexmill maybe valid to some people but they're not valid to me.  This, of course, does not mean  his remarks are incorrect but it just isn't convincing to me and my ears.  

Yes, the analog (vinyl) and tube sound are really different from digital (cd) and solid state.  They are much closer to the real thing.  I couldn't imagine cds sounding more "real" compared to vinyl.  I like reality too that's why I prefer vinyls over cds and tubes over solid states.

corrsty

Offline lexmil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 293
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #40 on: Jun 03, 2002 at 11:20 AM »
Please don't get the impression I'm trying to convert anyone either way.  I just responded to the quesiton in this forum which goes something like this"  What's the biggest reason you won't go for tubes?  Or did I read wrong?

Being an audiophile has become a quasi-religious way of life that no amount of  technical argument will do.  Like one of you guys said, it's a subjective issue.  And I have no intention to getting in your way of enjoying the life you want to lead. Suffice it to say that the topic has seen it heated days in the US and I believe Stereo Review has already put a lid on it as one of their editors said they have much more intelligent things to discuss.  

Just one last comment.  In 1995, my TNT friend turned US citizen brought me to visit his American sponsor who is true audio purist.  Like you,  he doesn't believe in the CDs or SS amps being sonically better than vinyls or tubes.  in fact, he has such a low opinion of the digital process that he maintains an all-analgue set-up. Even his TANDBERG open reel has tube preamps. Lately I heard, he wouln't even touch those DVDs with a ten-foot pole.  My hats off to him.  Like many in his small circle, he's a true purist, unlike some so called audio purists I know here in Manila whose only analgue device is a tube amp, the rest are all digital sources.  

Apparently I'm a lone voice in this forum and have rained in on the parade of tube lovers.  Have your last word on the issue.  Suggest you change the question in this forum to "why I love Tubes" And you'll read only what you like to read.  Enjoy and goodbye.



Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #41 on: Jun 04, 2002 at 01:05 AM »
corrsty,

Dude, I can’t wait for your goodies to arrive! The thought of doing a sort of “shootout” between your tube phonostage and my Cary’s is so enthralling. BTW, can it handle mc carts as well? Oh and lest I forget: will you also be able to bring in the much coveted 300B SETs monos with you? That would certainly be fantastic!  :D

Hey, I can’t help it but say that I’m feeling extra perky today! ;D Perhaps it’s the cool and seductive Julie London record I played over my Thorens today. Man, her “Come On-a My House” really bowled me over!…... I guess that’s it then.......…nah! Or it could be that I had such a grand time at Hyper’s place today while listening to Vax’s refurbished TT....well....…nah! Oh yeah, it just hit me, Hamann has at last found tickets for the upcoming Diana Krall concert… right, that’s it.....…nah! Oh man, what could it be?...... Lakers winning the WCF?...... the breezy cool weather we had this afternoon?   ::) ...... I simply feel like that I’ve finally shook off that darned and pesky li’l pebble stuck in my shoe….... hey, that’s it!!! Bye bye you annoying li'l pebble!!!  ;)  Dude, don’t you just feel that love in the air again today?  ;) :D ;D

Cheers!
-Racio  8)
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2002 at 02:36 AM by Racio »

Offline lexmil

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 293
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #42 on: Jun 04, 2002 at 01:11 PM »
This is not really goodbye.  Sorry folks, my apologies to the more sensible ones among you like corrsty but  I can't help but vent my little sadistic bent.

I will visit this forum once in a while to amuse myself reading  little ecstatic outbursts like this one from ra   Like I said I have no intentions of converting anyone. It's not worth it especailly since this brouhah on tubes vs SS has been relegated to the dustobins of hsitory and this  discussion and the discussants like this little ra do not and will never amount to any consequence to impoede the progress of hi-fi. What a sigh of relief The world of Hi fi will go on much like the world of automobiles.  Show me a car enthusiast  that says a 1932 Duesenberg SJ is superiror to a 2001 BMW 7 series and I'll refer him to the likes of litle ra.  So enjoy yourself.

Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #43 on: Jun 07, 2002 at 08:06 AM »
This is not really goodbye.  Sorry folks, my apologies to the more sensible ones among you like corrsty but  I can't help but vent my little sadistic bent.

I will visit this forum once in a while to amuse myself reading  little ecstatic outbursts like this one from ra   Like I said I have no intentions of converting anyone. It's not worth it especailly since this brouhah on tubes vs SS has been relegated to the dustobins of hsitory and this  discussion and the discussants like this little ra do not and will never amount to any consequence to impoede the progress of hi-fi. What a sigh of relief The world of Hi fi will go on much like the world of automobiles.  Show me a car enthusiast  that says a 1932 Duesenberg SJ is superiror to a 2001 BMW 7 series and I'll refer him to the likes of litle ra.  So enjoy yourself.


Hey lexmil, there really was a perty li’l ol’ nugget in me shoes.   ;)

“little ra”? Oooh….touchy! Seems like I just dabbed slightly deeper than usual in yer oh so sensitive li’l psyche eh? Did I just hit a nerve? Tsk tsk. I didn’t pop it did I?   ::)  

Regressed to name calling eh? What a pity then. Well, I hope for your own sake the forum moderators wouldn’t find that less than amusing. Hell, it sure cracked me up again (LOL!)! ;D  

IMHO, you being the queer “lone voice” in this thread can be attributed to your queer “been-there-done-that” attitude, which really doesn’t cut it and alienates a lot of forum users here, SS and tube users alike.

The fact is, without your posts on the SS-vs-Tubes issue there would certainly be no “brouhaha” to begin with. What set your queer posts apart from the rest was the prejudiced and tainted image you wanted to convey of tube and turntable users, and your queer position on why it’s totally inept for someone to venture into the analog format and valve amplification.

Then we had to bear witness to a slew of holier-than-thou ranting about your degree, about your father’s ol’ gear, your friend’s gear, a friend of your friends’ gear, and then a friend of a friend who’s actually in the States who has another friend and… WHO CARES!!! To think that you gained bragging rights because of your friend’s friend’s gear is truly queer and pathetic.

Notwithstanding your queer claim of going thru a plethora of rare and expensive audio equipment, you still say that you adore your capable Wharfdales and Onkyos and pick these over those exotics… then so be it. No one here is stopping you from knocking yourself out with it. Just no gear bashing. Frankly, those ol’ gems should really be left in better hands anyway.

However, one couldn’t help but liken what you wrote here to that of driving a 250 GT Berlinetta Lusso or a 288 GTO then suddenly dumping ‘em for the reason you’d rather lug around your almost new and stock Kia Pride then as if say: “Hey, I can still just about do a 70 at Star in this li’l bugger too… giddy-up!!!” Pretty “queer” isn’t it? Hmmm…“queer”…that word just keeps coming up. It most certainly fits the mbill here.  ;)

A ‘32 Duesenberg SJ Boat-tail Speedster with a race-spec 400bhp supercharged 6.8L 8cyl in-line engine against a Bimmer 7er you say? Which model in particular? The entry 735i or the Alpina B12 6.0 with a 430bhp normally aspirated 6L V12? While the latter will set you off at around a hundred grand of green dough, the Speedster, given that only a handful was actually made and even fewer currently exist, commands a staggering value which would make your li’l head spin. But superior in what way may I ask? Specifics please. Or might this be just another one of your vague and impetuous ramblings?  

At any rate, if again any of your friend’s friend's friend owns an immaculate sample of any of these two beauties, then I warmly invite you and your friend’s friend's friend to our monthly club run. Incidentally, we have one upcoming at BRC again. Finally prove you’re for real and ain’t queer lexmil. I assure you, we’ll have a blast with my sister’s-only-brother’s turbocharged E36 3er and your wonderful Alpina 7er!  ;)  

Then after all that “fun”, you might let me sample your audio gear so we could finally throw all these “brouhaha” out your window. You game?  ::)  

Cheers!!!
-Racio   8)  (or was that “little ra”)

P.S. Corrs, welcome back to Manila! Dude, I’ll be gone for today and the whole weekend so I can’t meet up again with you and demo those “ear candies” ‘till next week. I would love to audition the 300B preamps and SETs you brought back from… you know where! Hey, good luck on your new venture!  :D  
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2002 at 02:25 AM by Racio »

Offline otcho

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #44 on: Jun 10, 2002 at 10:19 AM »
Hi Lexmil.

can't help reading thru this thread.  masasabi ko lang , your messages make for very valid technical arguments versus tubes. bilang kasagutan sa title ng thread dito. Glad to read you're not really leaving this group where some of the tube loving dinousurs' only argument are their primitive ears.  

So go ahead.  YOUR RESP0NSES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THE QUESTION IN THIS THREAD:  WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST REASON WHY YOU WON'T GO TUBES..

para sa akin,  i share your understanding of tube operation vs solid state.  there is no known technical superiority of tubes over solid state.  sa mga nagsasabing let the ears be the judge., go ahead.  that's like getting married to someone and just letting the eyes be the judge.  (and geting married has so many similariities with going into this audiophile hobby of ours.)

anyway, palampasin mo na lang into raccio na ito.  Not worth it.  I too have been to a  number of live performances and they do sound just as clear and defeanning (sometimes) as my solid state equipment.(a second hand conrad-johnson mf-5600 and a harman-kardon avr7000). I do not compare between tubes and ss, only between live and ss.  yan ang hi-fi.

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #45 on: Jun 10, 2002 at 07:45 PM »
hmmm

Otcho,

What setup are you using?Post here Post Your Set Up Here ( Part 3 ) I think its a strange combination MF5600 and HK7000. Thanks

Levi


Offline otcho

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #46 on: Jun 11, 2002 at 12:12 PM »
To levi,

Strange ba?  Siguro kung connected.  E hindi naman.  One is in my family den and the other in my bedroom.  (Hindi ata puwedeng iconnect at walang pre-out/main-in yung CJ) Each is  connected to a Promac 2002 DVD player (dalawa, ang cheap kasi) courtesy of the good write-ups I got from this forum.  I'll  post my set-up sa thread na binanggit mo.


Offline rosetatoo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #47 on: Jun 11, 2002 at 04:48 PM »
I like tube sounds having heard one from my office mate's and my brother's audiophile set-up.  But what I don't like about it is the price tag.  For about P150T, I could get a high-end HT separates with more power.  But I wouldn't mind owning one.  

After reading this thread, I seem to notice some animosity among some of you guys.  I've read lots of flames on the internet e-groups as well as on magazines on the subject and this is not limited to just tubes vs SS, also between LPs and CDs, between branded and unbranded cables, and between s-shaped and straight tonearms in the 80s.  For me,I just get the technical snippets for knowledge sake and just go by my ears.  

To Otcho, I wish you wouldn't call us tube lovers "dynosaurs with primitive ears."  Not that I mind it, maybe we do have primitive ears.  But it doesn't leave a good taste in the mouth.  And I agree with you, you do not just use your eyes to marry someone.  But let's not complicate our lives anymore.  I think the ears are just fine for audiophilic purposes.

To Raccio, let's not get too emotional and blurt out things that make us look like we want to impress on our knowledge of those esoteric names, whether amps or cars.  It only confirms lexmil's impression of tube lovers as being snubs.

To lexmil, you've made your point and the tenor of your write-ups suggest you are a technical guy with an honest opnion.  Just don't raffle feathers too much.  I know you stand on your technical background wheareas we tube lovers only have our ears to stand on - very subjective indeed.  But precisely because of that subjectivism and emotionalism that oftentimes, those criticsm, whether based  on technical knowledge, experience or impression, can be seen, rightly or wrongly, as an attack on our person.  You're attack is an attack on our taste - a very personal one.

I hope for the sake of peace of mind, let's just go back to the topic.  I think it may be good idea for the moderators of this forum to just end this thread.  Afterall, the question invites ss-lovers as well.  I think the other forum on tubes is sufficient for tube lovers to air their issues all they want.  

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #48 on: Jun 12, 2002 at 02:56 AM »
Talking to yourself?

Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #49 on: Jun 13, 2002 at 01:14 AM »


To Raccio, let's not get too emotional and blurt out things that make us look like we want to impress on our knowledge of those esoteric names, whether amps or cars.  It only confirms lexmil's impression of tube lovers as being snubs.



lixm…err I mean…ahh… Rose,

Believe me Miss Rose, I’m no “snob”. Rather an “anti-snob”. And it’s precisely why I detest dogmatic sweeping comments Miss Rose.

Have a nice day Miss Rose,
-Racio  8)

Offline manila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #50 on: Jun 13, 2002 at 06:59 PM »
Rosetatoo,
    First of all, I have met Racio, I must say that he is not a snob but he is a pretty straight honest to goodness person. Maybe the problem with forums like pinoydvd is, one can never really understand the real person behind the "nickname".  He's an audio enthusiast and that maybe the case why he's words are immersed with audio linggo that you think he is trying too hard. But no he isn't, he is just the typical enthusiast. Tried talking to a PhD in Physics? Well Racio has a masters degree in tube amps! :)
    Secondly, us tube lovers should ignore users that create a division between tube vs SS, LPs vs CD. These are not the "real" audiophiles. Real audiophiles plays both LP's and CD's, enjoys music in it's context whether be it playing on a SS or a tube gear right?
    Thirdly, I think forums normally grow and mature when it is left to it's own devices. People have the right to their own opinions up to a point. It is like reading an audio magazine where all the equipments gets 4 or 5 stars and even if it deserves a 2 compared with it's competition. What HIFI comes to mind :).
    Let's keep this thread going I think and Racio is a good person and very audio inspired! :) Just my 2 cents worth of PEACE \/

Manila

Offline rosetatoo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm a llama!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #51 on: Jun 13, 2002 at 08:09 PM »
Manila,

Good yo know Raccio in person.  I hope i didn't give the impression my post was anti-Raccio.  Becasue it wasn't

Perhaps you might want to reread the articles posted by these two.  Lexmil  gave out his opinion on why he doesn't like tubes.  Maybe he was wrong in going further by declaring his impressions on the kind of people who love tubes, rightly or wrongly.  But I think he apologiozed for that.  The responses of the other members are more apt like that of hyperion and corssty, don't you think so?

Then read the posts of traccio who, not only deliberately misspells the other guy's nickname, (for mockery purposes?) but also makes statements like narrow-minded and  ridicules the personality of the other.  Tell me how would you react?  



Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #52 on: Jun 13, 2002 at 08:45 PM »


I think we are getting off topic too much. Lets go back to the purpose of this thread. We want to protect the interest of all the users. Please be honest with your post and please stop the name calling. It will be beneficial to everyone. Thank You.


Levi

Offline MeowPao

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #53 on: Jun 13, 2002 at 09:31 PM »



I think we are getting off topic too much. Lets go back to the purpose of this thread. We want to protect the interest of all the users. Please be honest with your post and please stop the name calling. It will be beneficial to everyone. Thank You.


Levi


Well said Levi...  :)

Don't you think we should change the subject a bit? It sounds too negative, and it's open to arguments.

Why don't we call it something like Why I Love My Tube Gear, or Why I'm Planning to Get Tubes?  ;)

This way, more people can understand / appreciate tubes, instead of reading negatives about it.  :)

Offline bently

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,272
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #54 on: Jun 14, 2002 at 12:33 AM »
As levi have mentioned, let's go back to the topic here, or we may just lock out this thread.

as for me, i'm more into movies and and i highly doubt that theres a  tube amp. that offers toshlink connections or support DTS format. ;)

bently

.·´ `·. . ><((((º> . .·´ `·. . .·´ `·. . <º))))><
.·´ `·. . .·´ `·. . ><((((º> .·´ `·. . .·´ `·. . .
·. . .·´ `·. . .><((((º>.·´ `·. . .·´ `·. . .·´ `·. .

Offline Racio

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 184
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #55 on: Jun 14, 2002 at 02:54 AM »
Hear hear. This thread has lately become oversaturated with OT BS, we cannot forego the topic at hand.

The subject matter that was posted on this forum by one of our fellow members was, with all intents and purposes, a quest to determine the prevailing interest in this board about valve amplification. Sort of a survey if you will. Some are positive and some are negative...that was naturally anticipated. But no one expected discrimination… so, a li’l of hell broke loose.

Since most of the reasons presented here were of monetary in nature, it substantiate the notion that the cost of tube amps lies in the higher spectrum of the financial echelon is generally true.

Unfortunately, the original intention is still left somewhat untold. Because the truth is, our friend who started this thread is actually offering perhaps a solution to this particular impediment, wherein anyone who’s really interested in investing in tube sound could purchase and take home a brand new integrated tube amplifier for only a third of the cost of, let’s say, a bnew THX receiver. A “killer” deal if you're really into this hobby IMHO.

An interesting climax that was not meant to be I suppose. But there is still that glimmer of hope because this "offer" to tube sound lovers doesn't necessarily end here.

Cheers then!
-Racio  8)

P.S. A li’l OT if you may:

Then read the posts of traccio who, not only deliberately misspells the other guy's nickname, (for mockery purposes?) but also makes statements like narrow-minded and  ridicules the personality of the other.  Tell me how would you react?  

Oh… and Miss Rose, like you, lexmil and otcho  ::) , spelling was never my forte’ so reread my prior posts. Appropriate corrections have been made. But please, leave your b?tching at home. It is certainly not very lady-like Miss Rose.

Lastly, to lexmil, a word of caution: if you don’t want to get burned then please don’t start a fire. I’m sure you have better things to write about. A book about "cloning" perhaps?  ;) Just throw 'em matches away.
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2002 at 03:32 AM by Racio »

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #56 on: Jun 14, 2002 at 10:40 AM »
Locking thread to avoid further misunderstanding and debates..........


Levi

Offline levi

  • Konsehal
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,636
  • Sevilla and Sons Sausages
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #57 on: Jun 17, 2003 at 12:58 AM »
unlocking thread

Offline Courage

  • Trade Count: (+65)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,279
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 10
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #58 on: Jun 17, 2003 at 08:15 AM »
I still dont have any idea about tube setup, kaya di ako upgrade nang tubes ehehehehe, i wanna hear those babies
Walang Setup

Offline Dracula

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 858
  • There is a choice...death or immortality....
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re:What's the biggest reason why you won't go tubes?
« Reply #59 on: Jun 17, 2003 at 09:47 AM »
No budget........ ;D

If I did have a budget it would be nice to buy one of the tube amps and pair it with the nautilus speakers sonny is selling.  The tubes look cool pero don't want to audition a set-up I might get bitten by the bug i just cured myself and i haven't fully recovered yet ;D
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2003 at 09:52 AM by dracula »