Topic: Wharfedale Diamond 9 Series

[MAtZTER]

go for the wharfe 9.5 . no need for speaker stands pa.

Pareng oweidah, just sharing my experiences ha  . But I used to have exactly the same belief, "FS para walang speaker stands na".

But I forgot to put the receiver into the equation. FS are harder to drive (need more power) than bookshelves, so make sure you get a good receiver (more powerful) to get the most out of your speakers. Good system matching is the key to a good HT. The additional cost of a better receiver can cost much more than the cost of speaker stands. For a purely HT use, bookshelf speakers + good subs are enough.

One thing I learned in this hobby , its not "The bigger the speakers, the better", but its "The higher the receiver, the better".

sir matz , pwede malaman anong models na-compare mo wharfe diamond 9.x at wharfe evo1 x0? day and nite ba ang diffrens?

medyo malayo yata pricing difference ng 9.1= 5.5k / evo1 10 = 15k? tnx

I auditioned it w/ a Wharfe Evo bookshelf too. Night & day difference? maybe not. But for me, the sonic improvement of Mid level speakers compared to entry level is definitely worth it.

Pag nagsawa ka na sa entry level speakers mo, its redundant to move sideways and get another brand's entry level speaker. Go upward for the Mid levels! The refinement & clarity is just amazing. Yun nga lang, dagdag gastos din sa matching electronics (receivers, amps, etc.)

[MAtZTER]

One thing I learned in this hobby , its not "The bigger the speakers, the better", but its "The higher the receiver, the better".

My friend bought a set of Energy speakers in Canada way back in 1997, combined with the cheapest Yamaha receiver he could get his hands on. then brought here to use. All I hear from him were insults to how crappy those speakers were. He did it so often that I challenged him to bring his speakers to my place to disprove him.

2 days ago, I connected it to a top mid level receiver, and all I saw from him was 

[synchro_01]

IMHO it is the specs of the speakers and not the physical size of the cabinet itself that determines how easy it would be to drive that speaker.   

[MAtZTER]

I understand your point sir sychro  . But if you are referring to the spec of sensitivity, sensitivity is referring to loudness but sensitivity is not = sound quality. Even a 90db sensitivity B&W 602 sounds better with higher power amps.

I came from a friend's house last night who tested his lower sensitivity BS speaker (used as surrounds in his HT) vs his high 91db sensitivity BS speaker on a SET tube amp. He observed that the high sensitivity speaker was louder, but the lower sensitivity speaker sounded better.

I should have referenced my above observation using "better sounding" instead of using the phrase "easy to drive". Pardon my wrong choice of words.  IME, FS sound great with higher model / higher powered AVR's compared to the lower model AVR's (sounds very thin).  BS are ok with lower powered AVR's , but surprisingly they can perform wonders when paired with higher model/power/quality AVR's. I am currently using an entry level Onkyo AVR with a small BS for my bedroom setup... sound is just wonderful!

Well, just my 2 cents 

[oweidah]

Pareng oweidah, just sharing my experiences ha  . But I used to have exactly the same belief, "FS para walang speaker stands na".

But I forgot to put the receiver into the equation. FS are harder to drive (need more power) than bookshelves, so make sure you get a good receiver (more powerful) to get the most out of your speakers. Good system matching is the key to a good HT. The additional cost of a better receiver can cost much more than the cost of speaker stands. For a purely HT use, bookshelf speakers + good subs are enough.

One thing I learned in this hobby , its not "The bigger the speakers, the better", but its "The higher the receiver, the better".


I auditioned it w/ a Wharfe Evo bookshelf too. Night & day difference? maybe not. But for me, the sonic improvement of Mid level speakers compared to entry level is definitely worth it.

Pag nagsawa ka na sa entry level speakers mo, its redundant to move sideways and get another brand's entry level speaker. Go upward for the Mid levels! The refinement & clarity is just amazing. Yun nga lang, dagdag gastos din sa matching electronics (receivers, amps, etc.)

rite sir matz, this hobby whether audio or ht, is all about matching the different components taking into consideration other factors such as listening room area and acoutstics; listening level preferences, etc etc. to ultimately achieve the oftentimes elusive system synergy. the seemingly neverending long and winding road that hopefully leads to the door of audio nirvana.   

[bugoy-bugoy]

IMHO it is the specs of the speakers and not the physical size of the cabinet itself that determines how easy it would be to drive that speaker.   

i agree with this, i think the speaker's sensitivity, nominal impedance, power handling requirement along with other specs, matter more than its physical size in determining if its easy to drive or not

ex: a 4-ohm sonus faber cremona auditor bookshelf speaker with 88dB sensitivity & with 50-250watts power handling requirement should be harder to drive than an 8-ohm b&w 603s3 floorstanding speaker with 90dB sensitivity & with only 25-150watts power handling requirement

and even the 8-ohm b&w 805s bookshelf speaker would still be harder to drive than the 603s3 since it only has an 88dB sensitivity & a power handling requirement of 50-120watts

just my 2 cents, of course

[JojoD818]

my 9.1 and 9.5 endured this amps.

1. Sonic Impact with hot rodded psu, roughly about 8W/channel.
2. tube-hybrid Gainclone, 56W/channel.
3. diy'ed fixed bias PP EL34 which is about 35W/channel.
4. diy'ed 100W/channel full complimentary SS amp.
5. diy'ed 500W/channel quasi complimentary SS amp.

using amp #5 is like having a party, as of now I am using amps #1 & 3 alternately without any difficulty in driving the 9.1 and the 9.5 floorstander. as always, YMMV.

[titan]

Hi ,
Just want to share my  D9.1 and Denon 1705, i transfered my set-up to a small room (8x5ft.) and i think they are much easy to drive mas lumitaw yung details. I'm more in to stereo listening right now. I'm not sure if kabit ko ba yung WH2 ko. Btw, i paired them with an old  Sansui Intergrated Stereo Amplifier model A-M77(part of Midi Componets of early 80s)  rated at 108 watts ( 8-12 ohms) . Grabe konting adjustment lang ng bass/treble mas ganda pa tunog compared with my Denon.

[HT_Freshman]

ano po ba magandang gamiting  AV Receiver for my Speakers na price eh nasa P15K po???

Speakers:
FRONT - Wharfedale 8.4 (Planning to Upgrade to 9.1)
SORROUND - Wharfedale WH-2 Sorround
CENTER - Wharfedale Diamon 9CS


many thanks!

[MAtZTER]

i personally like the sound of the 9.1 more than the 9.2. i heard the 9.1 sounding so good via nad electronics. later on youll be catching the upgrade itch and when that happens, youll realize its a waste of money budgeting your money(ironic isnt it). my suggestion is for you to save up more and buy them 1 at a time. start with very good bookshelves as front speakers. ive been through 5 different systems already before i became finally satisfied with my home audio. i do not want the same thing happening to anybody else. listen to more demos and save up for what you really want regardless of budget.

Same here, I have been through 3 setups already & I dont want the same thing happening to anybody else. And selling your gears at a loss to upgrade cuz you heard something better is such a money & time consuming ordeal.

Thats why I agree with the article oweidah posted here regarding upgrade fever.

So what's the answer? A large part of it is to buy right in the first place: when you're auditioning a system or a component don't think 'Yes, that might sound OK if only I?', but rather only buy something that blows your socks off with the improvement it makes to your music. .

The key is to GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. Correct system matching is the key to a good HT system. My posts above regarding matching BS & FS are with regards to Home theater & Receivers ONLY, NOT tubes, integrated amps, etc.

HT is a bit more demanding than music. And getting a FS combined with any cheap low powered receiver was not a good combination in my experience. I also met several people who had the same experience w/ FS plus EL receiver, "BITIN" daw.

So for me, its really better to just save up for a better receiver than just buy any that your budget allows for the meantime.

A Buyer's Guide I read recommends at least 100w for floorstanders. Considering how receiver companies mislead & inflate their power ratings to 100w, a suggestion would be THX certified receivers (min of 100w for certification). I think I saw a Kenwood THX AVR yesterday thats most most affordable among all the THX avr's I have seen. Its only 27k. Anyone have any experience with Kenwood AVR's? How much are Pioneer THX avr's?

But still, my 2 cents.

[JojoD818]

Matt,

I use my 9.5 with a t-amp, oks naman kahit high volumes except with those dynamically demanding moments, medyo bitin - pero at high volumes na yun ha, so at moderate listening levesl more than enough na ito. Using a Rotel RA-02 (40W/channel) changes things a lot already.

I agree with you that the more powerful the better though, para isang bilihan na lang ng amp, wala ng pabago-bago ng isip at upgrades. 

Cheers

[MAtZTER]

I agree Jo, but like I said, my recommendations are based  on HT & receivers only (usually mass market AVR's) based from my experiences . I dont have that much experience in integrateds, tubes & audio.

Also an observation: I found a single woofer FS (88db) sounding better than my older 2 woofer FS (92db) w/ T-amps, even if the 2 woofer FS had higher sensitvity. But its all subjective. 

[Assassin101]

I agree Jo, but like I said, my recommendations are based  on HT & receivers only (usually mass market AVR's) based from my experiences . I dont have that much experience in integrateds, tubes & audio.

Also an observation: I found a single woofer FS (88db) sounding better than my older 2 woofer FS (92db) w/ T-amps, even if the 2 woofer FS had higher sensitvity. But its all subjective. 

OT lang po. yan po ba sir un m34i at un m52 you are talking about?

[MAtZTER]

Yes, parang hirap sya sa M34 kahit mataas sensitivity (92), di ko nagustuhan so I still used my M72 (89db) BS/standmounts. Mas refined yung tunog sa M52 (88db) but syempre, mid level na din kasi yung M52. Sa ganda ng tunog ng M52, it was redundant for me to retain my M72 so I sold it.

[skylark]

kung gamit mo speaker was 88 or 89 db ano maximum power ng avr na dapat gamitin para okey ang sound

[MAtZTER]

kung gamit mo speaker was 88 or 89 db ano maximum power ng avr na dapat gamitin para okey ang sound

The term "ok ang sound" is subjective and could vary from "pwede na" to "W  W"

Bro, kung sa akin lang, and kung HT lang paguusapan, the bigger the better. I went through a 14k - 25k - 50+k receiver to power amps. As you go up the ladder the better it sounds.

May "SIPA" yung HT mo, lalo na sa midrange, kahit may subs ka pa. If higher model receivers sounded the same as entry levels, I dont think they would have survived their business this long fooling customers.

Look for the FTC power rating (@20-20khz) , not JETA power (1khz) w/c tends to be bloated & measured at its peak burst.

Thats why tama sabi ni Jojo, saving up for a really good receiver is better than just buying one that your budget permits for the meantime. Of course in the end, this will always depend on your level of HT enthusiasm. Your level of enthusiasm dictates how much quality sound you want & how much you will shell out.

And of course, just my 2 cents.

[av_phile1]

kung gamit mo speaker was 88 or 89 db ano maximum power ng avr na dapat gamitin para okey ang sound

It depends on your volume level preference at your listening position and the size of your room as well as absorptive accostic condition.  No hard and fast rule.  Bear in mind that the indicated senstivity levels in most pseaker specs are anechoic senstivities (unless otherwise indicated) - meaning they were measured in non-reverberrant conditions at one meter away.  There's also another sensitivity called in-room sensitivity which is more real.  Some say add 3db to the anechoic senstivity for a more realistic rating.  So in typical room, an 88db anechoic sensitivity can be 90db, to be more conservative. 

Here's a rather rough estimate.  If you like to listen at loud levels, approaching those you hear at live events, we could be talking close to 100db SPL.  (Ordnary speech between two persons one meter apart registers around 60db.  The conductor at the podum gets 120db.)  So for an 88db SPL speaker delivering 1 watt one meter away, you would need it to deliver 12db more.  That means you would need around 16watts RMS per channel to get 100db one meter away from the speakers.  (Double the watts for every 3db increment)  But if you listen at 2 meters away from the speaker which is often typical in a small room,  you lose 6 db.  (you lose 6db for every doubling of distance)  So you would need 64 watts RMS at that distance to get 100db SPL.  But let's not forget about headroom.  Musical signals consist of transient peaks that can easily require twice the continuous power instantaneously without going into clipping distortion.  So you need at least a 128 watts per channel amp.  I would think then that  a 120 watts RMS.channel amp should be adequate in most comfortably loud listening conditions and in small room sizes should you decide to crank up the volume a bit for an 88db speaker.  And given that in-room senstiivty adds 2-3db over the specified anechoic sensitivity rating, 120watts is really more than enough for comfortable listening levels without ever clipping.  

[accastil]

here my take: its not about the speaker size, not about the price, not even about the specs that defines what is good from what is not. the key is to "LISTEN" with your own ears. and most of all, the trickiest part is synergism...never presume that a gear or speaker with insanely expensive price would sound good when paired with your existing gears or system or even your room. best thing to do is to bring your stuff to the store to audition or VV, bring the gear to your home(this is of course a better audition set up). youd be surprised to realize how a 35Tphp bookshelf would dump a 375Tphp floorstander when it comes to sonic quality...can you imagine that much savings? you dont really need to spend much to have a really good sound, all you need to make use of is your own ears and some really logical trial and error in your own home. 

[acostaml]

on what i did i have 9.4s and an HKAVR335. Sounds really good.. I think ill stick with this setup for now:)

[JojoD818]

It's the money factor (budget, financial status, bonus, whatever) that dictates most (but not all) decisions.

I once tried powering a Cerwin Vega LR-36 bass bin (18" folded horn @106dB sensitivity; power handling @ 750W program/1500W peak) with a 150W power amp and it surely can serve most party needs. Then lo and behold, I was able to borrow a QSC RMX4050HD with a whooping 2600W (FTC 20Hz-20KHz @0.1%THD) of power when bridged and what happened next was in short, unheard of, i.e. the earth was shaking.

Putting the numbers aside, the lower power amp did an awesome job and served it's purpose. However, the more powerful amp did something amazing, it showed us what the speaker was really made of and what it was really made for.

Therefore, giving our beloved speakers the needed juice (plus extra) is not a bad idea at all if we can afford it, this only justifies avphile's point on headroom and matzer's allergies on sars/upgrades.

The lesson I learned: I will get what I want - if I can't afford it yet, I'll save up first and contain my excitement. Never again will I buy anything lower than what I want. Sleepless nights due to excitement I will take, rather than a bad, hasty purchase.

As they say, my 2 cents. 

[accastil]

It's the money factor (budget, financial status, bonus, whatever) that dictates most (but not all) decisions.

I once tried powering a Cerwin Vega LR-36 bass bin (18" folded horn @106dB sensitivity; power handling @ 750W program/1500W peak) with a 150W power amp and it surely can serve most party needs. Then lo and behold, I was able to borrow a QSC RMX4050HD with a whooping 2600W (FTC 20Hz-20KHz @0.1%THD) of power when bridged and what happened next was in short, unheard of, i.e. the earth was shaking.

Putting the numbers aside, the lower power amp did an awesome job and served it's purpose. However, the more powerful amp did something amazing, it showed us what the speaker was really made of and what it was really made for.


very well said jojo..."never settle for anything less than what you really want or long for"....you need to hear the best demos. if you think your set up is already good enough, wait until you hear whats in demo for those hi-end audio shops. until then, you wont be getting away from the upgrade fever...so know what you really want and save up to have them. settling for anything less would mean repetitive buy and sell.
Therefore, giving our beloved speakers the needed juice (plus extra) is not a bad idea at all if we can afford it, this only justifies avphile's point on headroom and matzer's allergies on sars/upgrades.

The lesson I learned: I will get what I want - if I can't afford it yet, I'll save up first and contain my excitement. Never again will I buy anything lower than what I want. Sleepless nights due to excitement I will take, rather than a bad, hasty purchase.

As they say, my 2 cents. 

[MAtZTER]

Very well said Jo!

[spiro0426]

My present set-up was an Yamaha RXV 2200 AVR, 9.5, 9CM, and 9DFS. Thru this thread, i was able to confirm to myself that i am indeed got the right set-up (based also on other factor such as budget, room size, wife comments, etc). I am very much satisfied lalong lalo na sa HT na paborito namin ng 2 year old boy ko. As of now, sa 9.5 ako umaasa ng function ng subwoofer (medyo nabigla na kasi ako sa gastos) kaya i delayed buying the right sub.

Somebody offered me this sub at P8.5k. Just want to confirm to the guru's and experienced pdvd members kung okay ito for my set-up.

Cube Sub. http://www.bayaudio.com/cubesub.html

[av_phile1]

There are apparently different cube models on that site, which one is the 8.5T? 

[spiro0426]

The one that is downfiring which is 350W amp, 47 lbs. Medyo contradicting ung specs sa site but based on confirmation with the sales guy un daw ang specs.

[AlvinladeN]

is it okay to pair the 9.1 and the wh-2 center?

[AlvinladeN]

and also where can i find the 9.1 and how much? tagal may magbenta sa buy and sell section eh

[Jun_P]

I think there are 9.1s at Ambassador Park Square, check it out. Not sure of the price.

[muypogi]

and also where can i find the 9.1 and how much? tagal may magbenta sa buy and sell section eh

Uy, kakabenta ko lang nung diamonds ko last week.  na-advertise ko rin dito. 

Diamonds are also available sa Sight and Sound Shangrila mall 4/F.  Sa park Square, the audio shop in between ambassador and the one selling Mourdant Short/Gale also carry the 9.1.  may maganda sialng rosewood finish pa yata.

[dannielsimone]

I suggest you look at the Evo2-30...the new wharfdale in the market.  The succesor to the diamond series I believe.