Topic: Turntable Part 2

[sandawa]

Ang ganda ng takbo ng usapan, hindi na 'ko makatiis makikisali na po. Anyway I have used record decks since early ‘80s, had owned over a dozen in 25 years, even tweaked some of them. I could have misunderstood the issue here and if that’s the case, disregard this post. I’m not familiar with GR1 but decks I have opened in the past (although I'm not a technician) have links/junctions that separate the tonearm wires (tiny silver wires with very thin covers) from RCA deck-to-amp wires (with same tiny wires but with thicker rubber covers).

If the issue is small-diameter RCA wire cover but you have zero humming even at full volume without signal, I don’t see a problem there. The designer knows his job and is not likely to sacrifice sound from cost-cutting on a meter-long RCA line. Decks that are quiet (zero humming/rumble) and stable rotation (zero wow-and-flutter) are almost perfect and upgrade on sound should only be done through cartridge or stylus replacement. Thus, I fully support an earlier post that the pickup be upgraded instead. 

But I understand the tweaking itch, siyempre mas pogi kung materiales fuertes. In that case, open your deck, find the link/binding post of the tonearm and RCA lines, get a soldering iron and replace the RCA wires. This is a bit risky and could cause loud hums so make sure the solder is solid, otherwise it would cause more harm than good. I’ve done this before, trial and error, especially on RCA lines that fell victim to devilish Stuart Littles. Even when soldering work looks solid enough, the humming got louder. Replacing tonearm wire is also risky and depends on how simple, or complicated, the wiring in your turntable is. 

If your wiring goes straight, no link, from the tonearm to the amp with transition only on wire rubber covers, you’ll regret messing with it. But then, if the itch continues, find a competent technician who can do a transition/junction box as mentioned on the post above, preferably an old man who knows what he'd be working on.

[arnoldc]

i agree 

[synchro]

  If your wiring goes straight, no link, from the tonearm to the amp with transition only on wire rubber covers, you’ll regret messing with it. But then, if the itch continues, find a competent technician who can do a transition/junction box as mentioned on the post above, preferably an old man who knows what he'd be working on.

ganyan din problema ng Technics T/Table ko before. the stock cables that are hardwired look like the el cheapo ones that come free when you buy a dvd or vhs player. In my case the el cheapo wires have deteriorated even further (may kagat pa ng rodents due to long storage  ). I had it replaced by Hyperaudio using XLO Pro and Monster interconnects soldered directly to the small pcb board inside (no junction box). zero hum and improved sound.  am quite happy with the performance of the upgrade and I only spent a a small amount of money 

[Audioboy]

here's a pic for your reference.



A- Cartridge Clips

B- Headshell

C- Rubber Cap

D- Tonearm Wires: Red, Green, White & Blue

E- Arm Tube

F- Horizontal Bearing

G- Ground Wire: Black

 H- Itty Bitty Rubber Tube

I- Solder Connection Terminal

J- Base or Post

K- Set Screw

L- Grey Base Cap

M- Lead Wire

 

kim,

yakang yaka mo gawin itong instruction sa site na ito: http://www.hi-fi.com/diy/rega/steps.html.

pangunahan mo......tapos paturo ako sayo pag expert kana. 

[sandawa]

In my case the el cheapo wires have deteriorated even further (may kagat pa ng rodents due to long storage  ). I had it replaced by Hyperaudio using XLO Pro and Monster interconnects soldered directly to the small pcb board inside (no junction box). zero hum and improved sound.  am quite happy with the performance of the upgrade and I only spent a a small amount of money 

that PCB (common among electronics-heavy turntables) is what we refer to and serves the purpose of link/junction box. i agree that good replacement work on parts of old units would have its reward, but generally, not recommended for new units unless performance falters.

i also would like to touch on the general impression i read on earlier posts here that direct drive TTs are the best. no, not always, unless that technology was perfectly applied as in the case of upscale direct drive models. in the '80s, belt drives from an older technology produced by master craftsmen in US, Europe and even Japan, were quieter, performed better, and therefore more expensive (hindi ko kayang bilhin).

even the much earlier rim-drive technology in '60s models of German brands Dual and Thorens (including the classic Thorens 124, which was installed for a long time in US radio booths at Clark Air Base before their replacement in early '80s) do better compared with entry- to middle-level direct drives made by the Japs.

direct drive is more popular since it is more reliable compared with belt-drive "if done perfectly", easier to assemble since the motor is almost integrated with the platter. however, excellence is driven by competition and with fewer TTs manufactured in the last 15 years, i don't think the quality of direct drives now has improved significantly since the '80s. TAS readers even complained workmanship on the few produced has deteriorated in recent years.  

[kimpao]

sandawa,
thanks for the info this would help alot. 


Audioboy,
malaking tulong yan post mo. will inform you if operation is successful 


guys,
its really not much of a problem for me to upgrade.  my dilemma is what cables would you recommend.  thanks guys! 

[arnoldc]

how much ar eyou willing to spend? phono cables make more impact than interconnects IME. YMMV and all disclaimers 

[audioslave]

guys,
its really not much of a problem for me to upgrade.  my dilemma is what cables would you recommend.  thanks guys! 

sounds like money was never a problem for kim idol   

[arnoldc]

cost no object ba? the best i've tried in my system is clearaudio sixstream. kayang kaya ni kimpao $800 lang kasi. 

[s2kov]

$800 daming turntable na yun!

[s2kov]

Btw, would M92E cartridge/stylus will fit with Audio Technica headshell? Tonearm is tube type.

[iceman90a]

if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your TT, wouldn't it make sense just to buy a better TT? 

[synchro]

Btw, would M92E cartridge/stylus will fit with Audio Technica headshell? Tonearm is tube type.

yes. am using one as a spare (universal AT headshell and Shure M92) for my Technics

[audioslave]

if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your TT, wouldn't it make sense just to buy a better TT? 

o nga naman, Rega clone lang yung GR1 - why not buy the Rega instead ....  gawin mo ng Rega P9 para wala ng upgrade 

[s2kov]

thanks!

yes. am using one as a spare (universal AT headshell and Shure M92) for my Technics

[kimpao]

Phono cables ang iu-upgrade na punta na sa bagong TT. ano ba yan.    For $800, hmmmmm........ ipa install na lang ako ng NOS - Dry Fire sa 4G63T tapos pa sikkens ko pa auto ko. 

[kimpao]

if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your TT, wouldn't it make sense just to buy a better TT? 

yun nga eh. i don't even see the point of spending so much for upgrades, wherein the cost of such is half or even more than half the cost of the unit. 

[kimpao]

o nga naman, Rega clone lang yung GR1 - why not buy the Rega instead ....  gawin mo ng Rega P9 para wala ng upgrade 

if ever i have the moolah, i would go for the VPI TNT Mk. 6  with a JMW-12.5 tonearm rather than a P9. 

[Narayan]

guys,
its really not much of a problem for me to upgrade.  my dilemma is what cables would you recommend.  thanks guys! 

kim, i have a spare blue colored vintage audio technica rca interconnect with a thin wire in between that can be used as ground wire...am just not sure kung may spade lugs pa both ends ung thin wire...i have used a similar wire to replace the cable that came with my luxman TT which i recently sold...just drop by if you want to try it

[arnoldc]

if ever i have the moolah, i would go for the VPI TNT Mk. 6  with a JMW-12.5 tonearm rather than a P9. 

mukhang next year na ito 

[kimpao]

mukhang next year na ito 

in my dreams lang yan sir. 

[stereophile]

if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your TT, wouldn't it make sense just to buy a better TT? 

iceman90 is correct. It makes more sense to buy a better table if you are planning to upgrade parts of the GR-1 (like using a CA six stream leadwire upgrade) other than the cart.

The Goldring GR-1 is not a Rega clone. It is a Rega P2 marketed under license by Rega for Goldring.  As such, the built-in phono IC is Rega spec.  I have set-up the GR-1 of a friend. I felt no compulsion to change the phono IC(unless if attacked by a rodent ). What my friend had me do is set-up the ttable correctly: adjust tracking force of the Elektra cart to 1.5gm, adjust anti-skate, make sure ttable is level using a bubble level. Like all Rega ttables, you can only adjust VTA with the proper shims. He wasn't too happy with the as-in the-box set-up. Anyway, after setting it up we tried a few LPs. Image focused solidly with more weight and body. It was so good, we tried a Coltrane 200gm re-issue by Classic Records . My friend felt like this:  .    I told him not to mess around anymore with the adjustments. He has had no complaints and is happily spinning vinyl on his GR-1.

My suggestion is to work within the limits of your ttable. I believe the first thing any ttable owner should do is to adjust the plinth so that it is level on a heavy/solid table. Next, adjust the cart properly to his liking(VTA, Tracking Force, anti-skate, azimuth, etc.) You will then reap the maximum benefits of your ttable.

The biggest upgrade/most cost effective change is to change the cart. But there is a caveat: I do not recommend that it exceed the cost of your ttable. This is so for reasons of tone arm quality, rigidity, damping, motor isolation, etc. Using a cart w/c way exceeds the cost of your ttable, will reveal your 'tables limitations and point you to upgrading to a higher level of ttable. Bear in mind, that as you upgrade the turntable, the cart, speedbox, phonostage, phono cable, quality of vinyl, etc also has to be commensurate. This is the reason why ttable companies like Rega, Project, Basis, VPI, etc have different price points for their turntables. It all depends on what your budget is and the involvement you want to put into analog.

Happy Spinning to one and all, may you have a Happy and Safe New Year! We do need our fingers for cueing the stylus.

[sandawa]

i agree with stereophile 100%, especially on simple tweaks that we often overlook but make significant sonic improvement.

[stereophile]

Btw, the Audio Technica headshell fits all standard mount Technics ttables and most other japanese ttables. Yes, the M92, the M44-7 and other Shure carts can easily be mounted on the Audio Technica headshell. Don't forget to check the overhang when mounting the cart. I use the Audio Technica headshell as a spare for my SL1200 MkIII. Money for value, it's a great replacement headshell to spruce up your ttable.

[Audioboy]

if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your TT, wouldn't it make sense just to buy a better TT? 

i believe kim wont dare spend 800 dollars for an upgrade on his GR1.

his prior post reveals that he wont even bother spend 5k for a phono cable.  maraming plaka na raw yun! 

[kimpao]

thanks audioboy! mukhang pareho takbo ng isip natin.  yup! i'd rather spend the 5k or even the $800 on lp's. it's much wiser to invest on software than front-end upgrades.   

i also do agree with you stereophile, proper set-up, isolation and placement will play a major role as to how the table will perform.

Guys,

IMHO, what's the use of having a thousand dollar turntable if you only have 20 to 30 lps to listen to. 

[Control]

Guys,

IMHO, what's the using of having a thousand dollar turntable if you only have 20 to 30 lps to listen to. 

Onga..kaya ibenta nyo na yang mga lp collection nyo kay Master Kim...dahil pangit ang plaka 

[stereophile]

IMHO, what's the use of having a thousand dollar turntable if you only have 20 to 30 lps to listen to. 

You'd be surprised. I know of some people who bought USD$2K+++ ttables who had 20-30 or less LPs in their collection when they began.

But I'd like to point out, these are audiophiles who were into analog long before, who used to own LPs, who sold/lost/destroyed...their LPs at the time of the CD forever revolution, and have since 'regretted'  that decision.  :'( They are currently trying to 'reconstruct' their past collection and adding new ones, including the re-issues (better than no copy at all). They are seriously into analog. Rather than go through the upgrade path, they made the conscious decision to go for an analog rig that they can settle into for many years to come and thus concentrate on the software/LP collecting(vinyl piranhas? ). Their rigs are in the mid to upper tiers of ttable brands.

Some, own more than 2-3 hi-end ttables. I even know of someone who has 8 ttables and is still looking for more.

[kimpao]

You'd be surprised. I know of some people who bought USD$2K+++ ttables who had 20-30 or less LPs in their collection when they began.

Not surprised since i personally know a couple of people (flithy rich  ) who bought rigs that cost them even more than USD 9K. yet, they only own around 40 to 50 lps. 

Da#n!.......  If I'm filthy rich, i'd definitely buy myself a high-end TT. 

[iceman90a]

Not surprised since i personally know a couple of people (flithy rich ) who bought rigs that cost them even more than USD 9K. yet, they only own around 40 to 50 lps.

Da#n!....... If I'm filthy rich, i'd definitely buy myself a high-end TT.

ang problema natin filthy lang tayo - wala yung rich