Topic: Conspiracy of Piracy in Generic DVD Players...?

[xeqtionr]

Two months ago I bought a Konzert DVD player in Cubao. This DVD player had this setup interface (see pics below, I scanned these from the Konzert manual):



A few days later I purchased this 2-channel Promac DVD player for my small TV in Laguna

and noticed that the setup interface is the same as shown by these pics. I'm not joking, guys. Really.

The following month, my Konzert DVD player was stolen, and I had to buy a new Nextbase 783
. To my surprise, the setup interface is exactly like the ones you are currently seeing.

I begin to wonder,  if DVDs can be pirated, then even the software for DVD players can be, too. Is there a 'conspiracy' going on among the manufacturers of these DVD players?

To all owners of DVD players out there: do you own a particular brand, besides the ones I mentioned previously, that has the same setup interface?

[uvax]

This just says that generic DVD players use a common set of IC's. I won't be surprised if generics even use the same circuit boards. I'd even go as far as saying that maybe even the only difference between the generics is the chassis itself. I'd say this is par for the course as the only way a manufacturer can drive prices down is by using big volumes of common parts. That's why they're called generics.

Actually I remember coming across a stall where the vendor selling generic dvd players says I can choose the nameplate of the brand that I like to put on the dvd players she sells.

[p.dividdy2]

some dvd players are rebranded lang naman eh iisa lang ang gumawa ng laman then yung case lang ang iniiba..also many players use the same chipset so it wouldnt be surprising that the interface is also the same.. be surprised when you see a philips/pioneer splash screen and menu on your promac..

[xeqtionr]

These manufacturers could care less about intellectual property rights and more on profit. To think that I bought these players from legitimate appliance stores

-- Konzert (Automatic Center Cubao)

-- Nextbase (Western Mktg. Farmers Cubao)

-- Promac (Shopwise Harrison Plaza)

[JojoD818]

i believe that is in the firmware of the player. it's just that they are using the same firmware codecs available to further decrease their manufacturing costs.

besides not paying royalties to the respective logo owners, they buy the same decoder board and slap them into a new casing with a matching transport and there you have it, an instant new dvd player model. 

[Chivalry]

To all owners of DVD players out there: do you own a particular brand, besides the ones I mentioned previously, that has the same setup interface?

i have a PROTONE player bought from Makro with the same setup interface

[Quitacet]

I own(ed) Orange and Lexing with the same set-up menus.

My friend who has a Pensonic player and it has the same set-up menu also.

The only difference between the posted above set up menu with my Orange and my friend's Pensonic is in the Audio set-up, our players have PROLOGIC option.

[av_phile1]

I am not surprised that some generics share the same chipsets and firmware for menu navigation, DAC and DD/DTS decoding.  

What should be more surprising is when you see a Philips menu look like a generic.  I've seen one at SM appliance last year, just can't remember the model.  Even the remote control share the same form factor, just different in color.     But it's quite comon.  Even their authorized service centers are the same.  I think Pioneer, Xenon and Nextbase do. 

There's no conspiracy.  It's old news that some entry levels of famous brands share the same assembly line as generics in some factory in China.  Same circuit board, same transport assemblies, or even same chassis and front plates.  Just a different brand logo affixed at the final stages of the assembly line.  That's called economies of scale.  

[JojoD818]

That's called economies of scale.   

I remember 2ny when I read that. 

[Chivalry]

There's no conspiracy.  It's old news that some entry levels of famous brands share the same assembly line as generics in some factory in China.  Same circuit board, same transport assemblies, or even same chassis and front plates.  Just a different brand logo affixed at the final stages of the assembly line.  That's called economies of scale.  

oh, so aside from the housing/chassis, can we safely say there's virtually no difference among most generic players?  then why are some receiving better user feedback than the others? 

[av_phile1]

oh, so aside from the housing/chassis, can we safely say there's virtually no difference among most generic players?  then why are some receiving better user feedback than the others? 

That's mostly because user feedback is a personal matter.

Apart from the fact that quality control is just a statistical exercise.  Lemons can pass QC, as there are lemons in every brand, generic or not.  Also, while firmwares and chipsets can be common to many, there are associated external circuits that could differ.  So for generics that don't come from the same assembly line, there'd be differences. 

But really, DVD player design has been so commoditized, especially among entry levels,  that its assembly and manufacture is so mechanically routine any businessman can jump right in, choose and appoint an OEM in China,  and just slap a different logo and name.  I think that's what's happening these days. 

[Chivalry]

i see...  good explanation av_phile1. 

i suppose generics use different lens quality (if their other internal components are the same) since some are choosier in reading media than others. 

[av_phile1]

i see...  good explanation av_phile1. 

i suppose generics use different lens quality (if their other internal components are the same) since some are choosier in reading media than others. 

Not all.  It might interest you to note that many branded DVD and CD players also share the same lens and transport assemblies from OEMs that also supply PCs like Creative, Plextor, NEC and Samsung, just to mention a few.  So generics would be no different.  There certainly are better OEMs than others.  But even within the same OEM, as in everything else, lemons can pass their QC.  So you get some that read better than others. 

[MAtZTER]

I go to electronic trade fairs in China. This practice is quite common. All you have to do is go to the manufacturer and for a specific quantity, they will agree to put your BRAND, whatever it is, on their products. Chivalry brand, or av_phile brand, or jojo brand, etc 

There are even Generic 42" plasma TVs below 100k there that can do this for you.

[xeqtionr]

I go to electronic trade fairs in China. This practice is quite common. All you have to do is go to the manufacturer and for a specific quantity, they will agree to put your BRAND, whatever it is, on their products. Chivalry brand, or av_phile brand, or jojo brand, etc 

That's C R A P !!!    You don't pay for the appliance, you pay for the STICKER ! ! ! May nabasa ako sa Pugad Baboy about that exact practice. Forgive me for being naive, pero ginagawa na rin ba iyan dito sa Pinas?

[jeckjeck]

That's C R A P !!!    You don't pay for the appliance, you pay for the STICKER ! ! ! May nabasa ako sa Pugad Baboy about that exact practice. Forgive me for being naive, pero ginagawa na rin ba iyan dito sa Pinas?

Easy sir but that's the truth... we only import these after all... as sir MAtZER said, factories in China are the number one suppliers of most electronics in the world now... it's not limited to dvd players... you can include amps, speakers, cd players, etc... My harman kardon dvd22 was made in China as clearly stated in the sticker on the bottom plate... A lot of European brands do have their products assembled in China using very generic components...

[JojoD818]

LOL! 

I once was looking for an Orange DVD player somewhere in raon when the saleslady said...

"Wala kami ng ganyan brand sa display pero sandali lang yan ididikit lang yun pangalan ng brand"

Astonished, I then asked what other brand stickers do they have...

"Madami, ikaw na pumili, gusto mo Sony pa ilagay natin meron din!"

holy crap! 

[sandawa]

in 1995, i met a Colombian in a conference i attended and he claimed the cheapest 14-inch TV sets in his country were made in the Philippines. the sets were supplied to Colombian firms that paste their respective brands on the TV's front panel. when i got back, i traced the firm thru DTI's export data and realized it was owned by a respected Tsinay who holds dealership for several Jap electronic brands. yes sir, we're in that game too - as early as in the '90s!

[MAtZTER]

That's C R A P !!!    You don't pay for the appliance, you pay for the STICKER ! ! ! May nabasa ako sa Pugad Baboy about that exact practice. Forgive me for being naive, pero ginagawa na rin ba iyan dito sa Pinas?

Gee, classic example- go to SM and look at K***a brand appliances. This brand's goal is to look at what his competitors have and import the same thing in with a their brand and rock bottom price.

"No originality or love for the business whatsoever"  comments a friend from the same industry.

If you have this brand of appliance at home, then you have been a victim of this practice already. 

"The world is not fair,  accept it.  The sooner you do, the easier it will be for you."
-Bill Gates, in his speech to some graduates

[bumblebee]

ODM - original design manufacture.

With OEM the customer sets a precise specification and another party does the manufacturing. But with ODM we set the design, supply the original technology as well as doing the production, placing the customer's brand name on that original design. This is our main business - but I must emphasise that there's more to it than just badge name manufacture.

More here.

[JT]

Most generic brands just order from an OEM manufacturer (either fr China or Taiwan) so usually same quality lang ang mga ito even though different brand names (esp those china made players). 

I was planning to order also long time back kaya lang maraming units ang minimum order, di ko kayang abonohan at  i-distribute.

Im negotiating to be a distributor for an OEM of enhanced Pioneer 533K.  I need your suggestion for the brand name.  Here are the specs:

GENERAL DESCRIPTION:
·Multi-region, compatible to DVD, SVCD, VCD, CD, CD-R &CD-RW and MP3 disc.
·DTS and Dolby Digital output.
·Progressive scan video signal output.
·Built-in DTS and Dolby digital decoder.
·Dynamic Spectrum Display.
·Video outputs: Composite Video and S-Video output, RGB output.
·Audio outputs: 5.1 CH, 2 CH, Optical and Coaxial digital output.
· With karaoke functions and two mic inputs
·Colour Option: Black, Gray, Gold and Silver.
·24-bit PCM Digital Output Capability
·10-bit Video D/A Converter
·Playback memory function.
·Program Playback.
·Selectable OSD: English or other language.
·System choice: AUTO/NTSC/PAL
·Zoom panning.
·Screen saver.
·Remote control
·Scart Output Connection (optional)
·Weight (N/G): 3.8/4.8 kgs
·Dimension (W x H x D): 430x55x255mm

I will be posting the price soon once the deal is closed.

[MAtZTER]

LOL! 

I once was looking for an Orange DVD player somewhere in raon when the saleslady said...

"Wala kami ng ganyan brand sa display pero sandali lang yan ididikit lang yun pangalan ng brand"

Astonished, I then asked what other brand stickers do they have...

"Madami, ikaw na pumili, gusto mo Sony pa ilagay natin meron din!"

holy crap! 

My uncle used to tell me this story too, It was so funny indeed. Its still a great conversation piece among friends.

[JojoD818]

My uncle used to tell me this story too, It was so funny indeed. Its still a great conversation piece among friends.

It is indeed... it's just that the quality control of these devices maybe a bit tricky to track though.

Just like they say... "suntok sa buwan"   But don't get me wrong, there are some that really last even when used under extreme torture.

[Quitacet]

It is indeed... it's just that the quality control of these devices maybe a bit tricky to track though.

Just like they say... "suntok sa buwan"   But don't get me wrong, there are some that really last even when used under extreme torture.

And minsan kaya natin nasasabi na mas madaling nasisira yung generic players ay dahil sa ito ang bugbog sa gamit natin dahil sa mura lang price nya. probably, kung gagamitin natin yung ibang mga branded like the way we are using the generic ones, baka parehas lang itagal nila.

[Chivalry]

ODM - original design manufacture.

With OEM the customer sets a precise specification and another party does the manufacturing. But with ODM we set the design, supply the original technology as well as doing the production, placing the customer's brand name on that original design. This is our main business - but I must emphasise that there's more to it than just badge name manufacture.

with an ODM set-up, the brands do not own the design or technology, right?  if so, technically, there wont be any intellectual property issues unless the ODM company used technology and designs developed by a branded company that has or used to have an exclusive OEM arrangement with it. 

[bumblebee]

with an ODM set-up, the brands do not own the design or technology, right?  if so, technically, there wont be any intellectual property issues unless the ODM company used technology and designs developed by a branded company that has or used to have an exclusive OEM arrangement with it. 

I guess so. The same ODM companies even improve upon their designs for the client brand and put it in their own brand (the generic brand).

[av_phile1]

with an ODM set-up, the brands do not own the design or technology, right?  if so, technically, there wont be any intellectual property issues unless the ODM company used technology and designs developed by a branded company that has or used to have an exclusive OEM arrangement with it. 

I've read on the net that OEMs in China generally don't pay royalties for DVD technology patent owners.  They don't pay Dolby and DTS, the DVD consortium, Macrovision,  the MPEG technology owners and other technology rights owners for their circuits.  That accounts for much of the price difference with the cheapest  branded entry level of the same features.  Usually around $20-$25 per unit.

[JT]

I've read on the net that OEMs in China generally don't pay royalties for DVD technology patent owners.  They don't pay Dolby and DTS, the DVD consortium, Macrovision,  the MPEG technology owners and other technology rights owners for their circuits.  That accounts for much of the price difference with the cheapest  branded entry level of the same features.  Usually around $20-$25 per unit.

Its true that's why some does not put standard logos on their sets.  So can we consider it pirated dvd player


 

[av_phile1]

Its true that's why some does not put standard logos on their sets.  So can we consider it pirated dvd player


 

Yup, every way you look at it.

But hey, it's made in CHINA.

And China does only lip service to US and European capitalists who are frantically knocking at the doors of the single largest market on earth begging them to uphold copyright laws.  Good luck.   

[xeqtionr]

And minsan kaya natin nasasabi na mas madaling nasisira yung generic players ay dahil sa ito ang bugbog sa gamit natin dahil sa mura lang price nya. probably, kung gagamitin natin yung ibang mga branded like the way we are using the generic ones, baka parehas lang itagal nila.

You're probably right. Kahit na ano pang brand iyan, these players are such delicate devices that should be handled with care. If it isn't the poor quality of the manufactured product that will do the DVD player in, it's the normal wear and tear due to normal ( ) operation.

Which reminds me of a story my officemate once told: A friend of his oince owned a DVD-writer. Dahil HEAVY USER sya (malimit mangopya ng mga orig DVD), it's a matter of time bago tuluyang NASIRA ang writer nya ( :'( :'( boohoohoo)

  And while we continue our discussions about Generic DVD Players, we are continuously being flooded by the wave of these cheap electronic appliances made in China... (cd players, TV sets, amplifiers, speakers)