Topic: CD PLAYER/DAC MOD

[brogger]

Use Mundorf solder its lead free, with silver content and low melting. Problem solve 

Cheers

Sir saan makakabili ng Silver Solder and Silver Wires?

[John E.]

Sir saan makakabili ng Silver Solder and Silver Wires?

try audio amplified, libis.

[eyeswideshut]

Is the no oversampling (NOS) mod of cd player brings significant improvement?

[rascal101]

Yes. This makes the sound more raw.

[eyeswideshut]

I found a marantz cd34 in a store and checking the internet I found out that this CD player will be easy to modify. For example in order to implement no over sampling (NOS) MOD all I need to do is to remove an IC SAA7030. Lampizator describe NOS MOD as a MOD to make the CD PLayer sounds like a turntable. I also would like to try the addition of coupling and decoupling capacitor. I think the capacitor needed are available. My problem is I am not sure of the value of capacitor because the text of MOD illustration seems not to agree with the picture.

[eyeswideshut]

opps I cant paste a picture. anyway he says the value of capacitor is 220nF but it look like he use 22K which is 22nF. ][/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html]

[eyeswideshut]

Another interesting and easy to implement MOD is the FET-ishizator. Ficus says that it sounds like lampizator but it uses FET transistor, which are cheap and widely available unlike vacuum tubes. Also it doesn't need another power supply. Has anyone tried this?http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/FETISHIZATOR/fetishizator.html

[rascal101]

opps I cant paste a picture. anyway he says the value of capacitor is 220nF but it look like he use 22K which is 22nF. ][/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html]

I believe these are 220nF capacitors. You can use 50V mylar capacitors or 63V metallic polyester capacitors. For the metallic polyester capacitors, you can buy online at RS components or Farnell. Based on experience, suggest you go with RS components.

[Onkyo606]

CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp

i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.

thanks for those who will proivde inputs

[oweidah]

CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp

i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.

thanks for those who will proivde inputs

maiiba ang tunog.

pag opamp ang pinalitan, maraming klaseng opamps at iba-iba ang tunog pag pinalitan mo. parang tube-rolling, op-amp rolling.

na kay sir timbre715 yung denon1610 ko nakakabit burrbrown opa2132. nandito bb opa227 gusto mo try palitan at pakinggan kung may pagkaiba?

[edwin]

CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp

i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.

thanks for those who will proivde inputs

change the power supply diodes to schotkky 11dq10 which are available at rs. cheap but a very worthwhile upgrade.

[Onkyo606]

maiiba ang tunog.

pag opamp ang pinalitan, maraming klaseng opamps at iba-iba ang tunog pag pinalitan mo. parang tube-rolling, op-amp rolling.

na kay sir timbre715 yung denon1610 ko nakakabit burrbrown opa2132. nandito bb opa227 gusto mo try palitan at pakinggan kung may pagkaiba?

change the  supply diodes to schotkky 11dq10 which are available at rs. cheap but a very worthwhile upgrade.

im willing to try both if it wouldnt cost me much and if somone is willing to do this for me i know nothing about soldering hehehehehehehe

thanks to kuya rene and edwin for the inputs

[edwin]

im willing to try both if it wouldnt cost me much and if somone is willing to do this for me i know nothing about soldering hehehehehehehe

thanks to kuya rene and edwin for the inputs

Sayang. If only i'm there, i could have done it for you.

[Onkyo606]

Sayang. If only i'm there, i could have done it for you.

salamat  brader edwin, by the way yung brother ko 2 weeks lang jan sa singapore although dyan talaga ang company nya eh saudi muna sya becasue of a project patawagin ko syan sa yo mahilig din sa gamit yung para alam nya kung saan ang tamang lugar

[edwin]

salamat  brader edwin, by the way yung brother ko 2 weeks lang jan sa singapore although dyan talaga ang company nya eh saudi muna sya becasue of a project patawagin ko syan sa yo mahilig din sa gamit yung para alam nya kung saan ang tamang lugar

Bro, anytime patawagin mo lang siya sa akin. I could show him around where to get the best equipments.

[audiojunkie]

to all our Pdvdmates...
...any MODS can be done to this model?

MARANTZ Digital Monitoring Series CD-75 II...





Outputs:
 1-Analog fixed
 1-Analog Variable
 1-Digital Coax
 1-Digital Optical

Voltage:
 Selectable 110,220 & 240 volts

thanks!..

[rascal101]

CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp

i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.

thanks for those who will proivde inputs

Below modifications can be applied to any CDP or DVDP.

Based on my experience, the common modifications in order from most to least improvement are:

1. Output coupling capacitor modification
- The output coupling capacitor is mainly used to pass AC signal (audio signal) and block DC signal.

- The output coupling capacitor typically used in CD players are called electrolytic capacitors. These are mainly used as they provide a large capacitance in a small package. One problem though with these capacitors is they do not have stable capacitance (their capacitance varies greatly with frequency; at frequencies equal or greater than 10KHz, the capacitance value is halved; this means if the capacitor is rated as 10uF at 10KHz it becomes 5uF).

- Due to this behavior, it is easier for high frequencies to pass than low frequencies (the charge and discharge cycle is faster with lower value capacitance than higher value capacitance). This may be the reason why many CDP sound "thin" or "manipis" as high frequencies are much more emphasized.

- By using or adding better capacitors eg polyester, polypropelene etc we can somehow compensate (limited) for the behavior of the electrolytic capacitor.

2. Op-amp modification/replacement
- The op-amp is used for amplification and as a steep low pass filter.

- If the amplifier has good linearity (gain is very stable) and good or fast response (high slew rate) then we can expect that the output is same as the input with a gain.

- The steep low pass filter is used to ensure that only audio signal will pass and high frequency noise is filtered out.

3. Clock circuit modification
- If the time intervals are fixed, we can expect that the sampled audio signal can be reproduced correctly. Of course we would not like the word "hello" when sampled becomes "helo" or "ello".

4. EMI filter addition/modification
- By adding an EMI filter we ensure that high frequency noise from the AC line or from radio or TV broadcast do not interfere with the reproduced audio signal.

5. Bridge diode modification
- By using high speed diodes, we can reduce bulk voltage or DC voltage ripple. If we have a +/-12Vdc supply, it would be better if the variation is within +/-1% instead of +/-1.2%.

Based on my experience, I believe that the combination of items 1 and 2 will yield very good results (not necessarily changing the op-amps but improving its feedback compensation) if you have fair amount of time. Items 3 to 5 are nice to have. Also, instead of additional coupling capacitor a capacitance compensation circuit (internal or external circuit) should improve output audio quality much more.

[rascal101]

If we truly want to make the CDP tube sounding (without using vacuum tubes) we should at least look into the transfer function we are dealing with. I sincerely apologize if I will have to be mathematical (I do not know any other way to explain this simpler).

If we represent the output as a time dependent variable:

F(t) = Gain * x(t)  --> equation 1

where,

F(t) = output audio signal (CDP or audio source output)
Gain = gain introduced by the op-amp or audio source amplifier (this is the closed loop gain)
x(t) = input audio signal prior to the op-amp or audio source amplifier

If we are to subscribe with the idea that the vacuum tube introduces second order harmonics we can say that its transfer function is (we will also use a time dependent variable):

Y(t) = Gain * [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 2

where,

Y(t) = output of the vacuum tube
x(t) = input audio signal
z(t) = harmonic introduced by the vacuum tube

by rearranging the expression,

Gain = Y(t) / [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 3

and

z(t) = [Y(t) / Gain] - x(t) --> equation 4

by integrating equation 3 to equation 1, we get:

F(t) = [Y(t) * x(t)] / [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 5

Based on this, we have 2 time dependent variables Y(t) and z(t) which we need to figure out. Since Y(t) is dependent upon z(t), we will need to understand what this z(t) variable is.

The questions we will need to answer are:

1. At what frequency or frequencies should z(t) operate?
- Should it operate within the 20KHz range?
- Should it operate within the 100KHz range?

Note: there are studies

(1) http://www.its.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm

(2) Tsutomi Oohashi, Emi Nishina, Norie Kawai, Yocrapaka Fuwamoto, Hiroshi Imai, High-Frequency Sound Above the Audible Range Affects Brain Electric Activity and Sound Perception. Audio Engineering Society preprint No. 3207 (91st convention, New York City)

which indicate that many musical instruments and even our own voice generate frequencies in excess of 20KHz and goes up to 100KHz and that we are able to perceive such frequencies.

2. What will be the amplitude of this z(t)?
- If z(t) is made quite large it may affect and lower F(t).

3. Should z(t) operate as a transient?
- Should z(t) appear ONLY when there is an audio signal rise or fall?

Based on this, IMHO I think thorough experimentation on various circuits and extensive listening test is key to approximating or resembling z(t).

If any of you have done some time on this it is my hope that you can share some of your results. Thank you in advance.

[odyopayl]

Below modifications can be applied to any CDP or DVDP.

Based on my experience, the common modifications in order from most to least improvement are:

1. Output coupling capacitor modification
- The output coupling capacitor is mainly used to pass AC signal (audio signal) and block DC signal.

- The output coupling capacitor typically used in CD players are called electrolytic capacitors. These are mainly used as they provide a large capacitance in a small package. One problem though with these capacitors is they do not have stable capacitance (their capacitance varies greatly with frequency; at frequencies equal or greater than 10KHz, the capacitance value is halved; this means if the capacitor is rated as 10uF at 10KHz it becomes 5uF).

- Due to this behavior, it is easier for high frequencies to pass than low frequencies (the charge and discharge cycle is faster with lower value capacitance than higher value capacitance). This may be the reason why many CDP sound "thin" or "manipis" as high frequencies are much more emphasized.

- By using or adding better capacitors eg polyester, polypropelene etc we can somehow compensate (limited) for the behavior of the electrolytic capacitor.

2. Op-amp modification/replacement
- The op-amp is used for amplification and as a steep low pass filter.

- If the amplifier has good linearity (gain is very stable) and good or fast response (high slew rate) then we can expect that the output is same as the input with a gain.

- The steep low pass filter is used to ensure that only audio signal will pass and high frequency noise is filtered out.

3. Clock circuit modification
- If the time intervals are fixed, we can expect that the sampled audio signal can be reproduced correctly. Of course we would not like the word "hello" when sampled becomes "helo" or "ello".

4. EMI filter addition/modification
- By adding an EMI filter we ensure that high frequency noise from the AC line or from radio or TV broadcast do not interfere with the reproduced audio signal.

5. Bridge diode modification
- By using high speed diodes, we can reduce bulk voltage or DC voltage ripple. If we have a +/-12Vdc supply, it would be better if the variation is within +/-1% instead of +/-1.2%.

Based on my experience, I believe that the combination of items 1 and 2 will yield very good results (not necessarily changing the op-amps but improving its feedback compensation) if you have fair amount of time. Items 3 to 5 are nice to have. Also, instead of additional coupling capacitor a capacitance compensation circuit (internal or external circuit) should improve output audio quality much more.

Well said rascal. Add ko lang na pwedeng mag add ng tube buffer sa analog output.

Basically if somebody want to Mod their CD players start with the Op-Amp  replacement and the Power Supply improvement bu using better Fast recovery diodes and better Caps.
Next are the clock improvement
Then changing your CDPlayer just kidding

[brainwashed]

Well said rascal. Add ko lang na pwedeng mag add ng tube buffer sa analog output.

Basically if somebody want to Mod their CD players start with the Op-Amp  replacement and the Power Supply improvement bu using better Fast recovery diodes and better Caps.
Next are the clock improvement
Then changing your CDPlayer just kidding

haven't had much experience in electronics so i'll take your last advise and just change my cdplayer!

[Signal2Noise]

Hi,

Thinking of doing mods on my 2 cdps.

• NAD C542 - In Manila
  Marantz CD6003 - Here in Singapore

Pls. pm me what is the best mod to be done in either cdp and the cost.

Thanks,

[shrek7]

sir, i just recently acquired sir onkyo606's cd player, nad525bee, he referred me to you.   and i'm planning to get it fixed, the tray keeps on closing after you've opened it. he said its just the rubber belt that needs to be replaced. im also planning to get this cd player modified. can you please pm me the things that needed to be modified or replaced and how much it will cost? thank you very much sir 

[rascal101]

Sent you PM on the repair and mod of the CDP  . Please take note that almost all items are typically available at an electronics store whether you are in the province or in MM except for the 10nF polypropelene capacitor.

[odyopayl]

CD Player Mod is fun especially for Electronic enthusiast . But somehow, you will end-up changing your CD Player . The very reason is: A good CD  player starts with a very Good Transport, then it is the best to start a WORTH Modding! Heres is my Steps:
1. Start with the Power Supply - Better Electrolytic Caps and FR diodes
2. Output Coupling Cap Modification
3. OP Amp
4. Reclocking (Final)
Depends on the CD Player you have,not all above mod is applicable.
Happy DIY'ng!

[Philander]

Is there anyone here that can repair my Sony DVP-S9000ES? It is still turning on (no video output already, tray not opening) but after about 10 seconds, it shuts itself off.

I brought to Sony Phils, they just checked it and says no parts available. I dont think they are allowed to perform modification or repair like to change some compatible parts but only Sony approved parts.

[lakambini]

sir philander,

ok p b lens nya? is it dual lens? want to sell ur player? dito lang me for the taking, tnx

[rascal101]

Hi,

Thinking of doing mods on my 2 cdps.

• NAD C542 - In Manila
  Marantz CD6003 - Here in Singapore

Pls. pm me what is the best mod to be done in either cdp and the cost.

Thanks,

As an example, I would like to show an approach on how to modify the Marantz CD-6003 CDP.



As a start, let's try to gather some data on this CDP.

From the link,

http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product/1446

1. It is using the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter. This is the same converter used on the Marantz CD-6002.

2. It is using

"The Marantz HDAM-SA2 - Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Modules - replace single chip, 'off-the-shelf' Op-Amps, operating as a buffer amplifier and as a Low Pass Filter."

Based on this, it appears that the output analog section is using some proprietary circuitry (HDAM) for its active low pass filter circuit.

This will have to be verified by reverse engineering the circuit board of the CDP.

With this information, we should start by geting hold of the datasheet for the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter and studying it from the link,

www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398_F1.pdf



Based on this, it appears that:

a. It has its own digital filter and own voltage reference
- this is typical for modern DACs, previously external digital filters were employed

-- It's internal digital filter can operate in 3 oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Based on feedback that less oversampling results is subjectively better sound, we should operate with minimal oversampling as possible. As such, we should operate at quad speed mode.



So, our very first mod (should we decide to pursue it and is not implemented on the CDP circuit board) is making the  D/A converter operate at quad speed mode.

-- Further since it has an internal voltage reference, it is a good idea to ensure that the DAC operates at a stable temperature.



Why?

Many precision test instruments have voltage references which are "ovenized". Meaning to say, it is enclosed in a metal receptacle to ensure that the surruounding temperature is uniform and as such would result in a fixed reference value. It is then essential or a must (necessity) for D/A converters!!! For obvious reasons, the internal voltage reference would have fluctuating reference values should the surrounding temperature change.

So, our second mod is to put a heatsink on the D/A converter (if one  does not exist already). Just make sure you use a thermal adhesive with good thermal coefficient to help ensure that heat can easily be absorbed by the heatsink. Also, make sure that the heatsink fills up the whole D/A converter package.

b. Decoupling capacitors as close as possible to the D/A converter is a must.

"The Typical Connection Diagram shows the recommended power arrangement with VA, VD, VLS and VLC connected to clean supplies. Decoupling capacitors should be located as close to the device package as possible."

So, our third mod is to ensure that the decoupling caps are as close as possible to the D/A converter.

c. The datasheet also recommends a second order Butterworth filter based on application note 48.



On the 2 items highlighted in blue, based on the recommendations from the picking capacitors article by Walter A. Jung and Richard Marsh



We should observe their recommendations.



So, our fourth mod is as below:

Based on experience, I have gone with the arbitrary polarity configuration (B). If I observed that the original output coupling capacitor is 22uF, here is what I do

- Ca1 and Ca2 is a low ESR 47uF or 56uF electrolytic capacitor
- Cb is a polypropelene capacitor from 1uF to 2.2uF
- Cc is a polypropelene capacitor from 100nF to 220nF
- I add a Cd which is a polypropelene capacitor from 1nF to 10nF

For the local bleeder or shunt resistance I usually place anything from 1Kohm to 4.7Kohm.

For the rest of the capacitors encircled in red,

- Ceramic COG should be replaced with polyester (mylar) capacitor or polystyrene capacitors (you should find these in all Alexan branches or Watsons Electronic store in Raon)

- the 100uF electrolytic capacitor should be any low ESR capacitor such as Nichicon "PL", "PM", "HD"; Rubycon "ZL" etc

I hope this helps  

[brainwashed]

As an example, I would like to show an approach on how to modify the Marantz CD-6003 CDP.



As a start, let's try to gather some data on this CDP.

From the link,

http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product/1446

1. It is using the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter. This is the same converter used on the Marantz CD-6002.

2. It is using

"The Marantz HDAM-SA2 - Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Modules - replace single chip, 'off-the-shelf' Op-Amps, operating as a buffer amplifier and as a Low Pass Filter."

Based on this, it appears that the output analog section is using some proprietary circuitry (HDAM) for its active low pass filter circuit.

This will have to be verified by reverse engineering the circuit board of the CDP.

With this information, we should start by geting hold of the datasheet for the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter and studying it from the link,

www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398_F1.pdf



Based on this, it appears that:

a. It has its own digital filter and own voltage reference
- this is typical for modern DACs, previously external digital filters were employed

-- It's internal digital filter can operate in 3 oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Based on feedback that less oversampling results is subjectively better sound, we should operate with minimal oversampling as possible. As such, we should operate at quad speed mode.



So, our very first mod (should we decide to pursue it and is not implemented on the CDP circuit board) is making the  D/A converter operate at quad speed mode.

-- Further since it has an internal voltage reference, it is a good idea to ensure that the DAC operates at a stable temperature.



Why?

Many precision test instruments have voltage references which are "ovenized". Meaning to say, it is enclosed in a metal receptacle to ensure that the surruounding temperature is uniform and as such would result in a fixed reference value. It is then essential or a must (necessity) for D/A converters!!! For obvious reasons, the internal voltage reference would have fluctuating reference values should the surrounding temperature change.

So, our second mod is to put a heatsink on the D/A converter (if one  does not exist already). Just make sure you use a thermal adhesive with good thermal coefficient to help ensure that heat can easily be absorbed by the heatsink. Also, make sure that the heatsink fills up the whole D/A converter package.

b. Decoupling capacitors as close as possible to the D/A converter is a must.

"The Typical Connection Diagram shows the recommended power arrangement with VA, VD, VLS and VLC connected to clean supplies. Decoupling capacitors should be located as close to the device package as possible."

So, our third mod is to ensure that the decoupling caps are as close as possible to the D/A converter.

c. The datasheet also recommends a second order Butterworth filter based on application note 48.



On the 2 items highlighted in blue, based on the recommendations from the picking capacitors article by Walter A. Jung and Richard Marsh



We should observe their recommendations.



So, our fourth mod is as below:

Based on experience, I have gone with the arbitrary polarity configuration (B). If I observed that the original output coupling capacitor is 22uF, here is what I do

- Ca1 and Ca2 is a low ESR 47uF or 56uF electrolytic capacitor
- Cb is a polypropelene capacitor from 1uF to 2.2uF
- Cc is a polypropelene capacitor from 100nF to 220nF
- I add a Cd which is a polypropelene capacitor from 1nF to 10nF

For the local bleeder or shunt resistance I usually place anything from 1Kohm to 4.7Kohm.

For the rest of the capacitors encircled in red,

- Ceramic COG should be replaced with polyester (mylar) capacitor or polystyrene capacitors (you should find these in all Alexan branches or Watsons Electronic store in Raon)

- the 100uF electrolytic capacitor should be any low ESR capacitor such as Nichicon "PL", "PM", "HD"; Rubycon "ZL" etc

I hope this helps  

NOSEBLEED!
pasensya na. engot sa electronics in the house
wish i had the patience to learn about it.
nice reading, though. just wish i could understand half of it!

[rascal101]

[rascal101]

To add another simple modification.

You must replace the external ceramic capacitors used by the clock circuit of the CS4398 D/A converter. Ceramic capacitors are no good at very high frequencies. You must use either use polystyrene, silver mica or glass capacitors. I suggest the polystyrene capacitors as this are available locally. Check with Spin Electronics or Watson's Electronic Store.