Author Topic: 5.1 and DTS question  (Read 2047 times)

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Offline atomicat10

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5.1 and DTS question
« on: Nov 10, 2005 at 08:39 AM »
If my Dvd player has a native DTS decoder and has corresponding 6 RCA outs, is it better to connect them(thru RCA) straight to a Surround capable Amplifier or:

go digital and connect thru toslink and hook the dvd player to an A/V receiver/amplifier with the same toslink inputs?

Since my dvd player natively decodes DTS tracks, is the digital data coming out of toslink- DTS 5.1 already or does it need to pass thru a DTS capable/decoding receiver or amplifier?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2005 at 08:44 AM by atomicat10 »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 09:01 AM »
When you use digital connections, the data is always in RAW form. You need a decoder (in your case, a receiver) for this.

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #2 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 09:41 AM »
I see...there are integrated amplifiers which has toslink inputs, right?

Reg. my first question then, is it better to hook my dvd player which has dts 5.1 analog outs straight to an amplifier?

If I connect digitally(toslink) to multiple devices(receiver then to amplifier) does it suffer any data loss compared to analog connection but direct from the source(dts decoding dvd player to surround amplifier)?

Which do you prefer?

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #3 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 09:53 AM »
I see...there are integrated amplifiers which has toslink inputs, right?

Yamaha's DSP series.

Quote
Reg. my first question then, is it better to hook my dvd player which has dts 5.1 analog outs straight to an amplifier?

If I connect digitally(toslink) to multiple devices(receiver then to amplifier) does it suffer any data loss compared to analog connection but direct from the source(dts decoding dvd player to surround amplifier)?

Which do you prefer?

I would just connect it "digitally". Only one cable needed :)

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #4 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:03 AM »
Ok thanks.

Wala palang cheap alternative to go digital, I don't think I can afford a Yamaha. :(

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #5 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:13 AM »
You can use HTIB's.

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #6 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:27 AM »
I prefer to go separates...maybe I'll just hook via analog to a Sakura amp.


 How the hell can 6 fat analog RCA cables be beaten by 1 toslink cable, digital it may be?
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:28 AM by atomicat10 »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #7 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:38 AM »
They have different functions so I don't think we should compare them. It's more of DVD's DAC vs receiver's DAC.

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #8 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 10:56 AM »
I'm a newbie at this but I'm trying hard to analyze...there are two forms of outputting audio from a dvd player, one way is analog through RCA while the other one is digitally thru toslink or coaxial cables.

So basically, these cables serve the same function, right? They are both used to output data from the source to an amplifier or a receiver or both. The only difference(correct me please if I'm wrong) is that one is analog while the other is digital.

What I don't get is How can one toslink cable outdo 6 separate, fat and good quality RCA cables just like how one HDMI cable beat 3 excellent component cable for video(but I heard from sources it really does).

Please enlighten me on these, thanks.

« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2005 at 03:03 PM by atomicat10 »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #9 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 11:45 AM »
I'll try.

First, digital. Digital connections output RAW data. 1's and 0's. It's like copying a file from a CD to the HDD of your pc. Exact copy. No losses.

Analog. They carry signals after processing (RAW is converted to analog).

I wouldn't worry about w/c is better. After all, the ears will decide. Besides, overall sound quality is affected greatly by your speakers and room.

Offline alistair

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #10 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 11:58 AM »
So basically, these cables serve the same function, right? They are both used to output data from the source to an amplifier or a receiver or both. The only difference(correct me please if I'm wrong) is that one is analog while the other is digital.
Not quite. Yes, they carry 'data' from the source to the amp or receiver. But don't underplay the analog vs. digital difference.

With the 6 RCA cables, the electric signal travelling along the wires are analogs of the actual sound waveform. Hence, any physical or electrical interference to the electric signal directly affect the sound output. This interference/distortion can be introduced by faulty/substandard terminations, RF interference, ground loop hum, to interconnect cable properties and dielectric skin effect if you believe the exotic cable manufacturers.

With the digital Toslink cable, the signal is a data stream of bits transmitted optically, distinct 0's and 1's, that carry encoded audio. At any point in time the light is either on or off. Any physical interference will either be major (preventing the data from being transmitted AT ALL), or in conceivably very rare cases intermittent, causing 1 bit out of every, say, 1000 to be transmitted incorrectly. But most, if not all digital encoding/trasmission schemes have built-in error correction (or at least error detection) that handles that 1 in a 1000 rare occurence. And if the error becomes to great to correct, then its simply interpreted as a lost signal.

Also, because of the digital encoding, a single optical cable has more than enough bandwidth to carry 5, 6, 7 or more channels of digital audio. A fat wire also has ample bandwidth to carry several signals - but at certain (high) frequencies you start running into RF issues and wire RLC limitations. On the other hand, a good optical cable can carry signals in the MHz frequencies with no problems.

Finally, in your particular case, most of the time dedicated receivers/amps have better decoding circuitry and digital to analog conversion circuitry than most sources/transports. For example, in my case I use an Xbox - yep, a $100 gaming console as my transport. I don't care, because I'm certain that the CD audio signal transmitted optically, digitally to the receiver will arrive there exactly as it was recorded. I then let the receiver do the job of decoding and analog conversion, knowing it'll do the job better than the Xbox ever could.
Quote
What I don't get is How can one toslink cable outdo 6 separate, fat and good quality RCA cables just like how one HDMI cable beat 3 excellent component cable for video(but I heard from sources it really does).
Same explanation. Ever ask yourself why (digital) satellite cable TV transmission is (generally) better than analog cable transmission? Or why digital GSM telephones are better than the now extinct analog CDMA phones? Or why undersea long-distance telecom lines use millimeter thin optical fiber rather than copper wires inches thick?

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #11 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 02:15 PM »
Ok. Now I remember a movie by Danny deVito and Penelope Ann Miller about corporate takeovers and Danny was about to takeover a cable(analog) manufacturing company because as he explained in the finale that the takeover was inevitable due to the birth of fiberoptics, the company will be doomed because the future will be on digital transmission.Whew!

This is also the same reason why internet service in the future will be near realtime because of fiberoptic connectivity. It's not in the girth...WTF am I thinking? Maybe may hangover pa sa RCA, S-VIDEO and Component connection. ;D

Zeroes and ones...

Offline av_phile1

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #12 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 02:34 PM »

What I don't get is How can one toslink cable outdo 6 separate, fat and good quality RCA cables just like how one HDMI cable beat 3 excellent component cable for video(but I heard from sources it really does).

Please enlighten me on these, thanks.



What you are describing is true because the digital signal carried by either toslink or HDMI remains in the DIGTAL domain when processed by the receiver or plasma TV respectively.  There is no conversion from digital to analog (in the player) and back to digital again (in the TV or receiver) for processing which is what happens when you use analog RCA connection to the receiver or component connection to the plasma.  Any kind of signal conversion results in some losses. 

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #13 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 02:54 PM »
Wala palang silbi na nakabili ako ng DVD player na DTS decoder kasi mas maganda palang gumamit pa rin ako ng dedicated DTS receiver/amplifier. It's a good thing may digital out (Toslink and coaxial).

What it does give me is a cheaper option but an analog one(walang zero ;D).
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2005 at 03:02 PM by atomicat10 »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #14 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 02:59 PM »
Wala palang silbi na nakabili ako ng DVD player na DTS decoder kasi mas maganda palang gumamit pa rin ako ng dedicated DTS receiver/amplifier. It's a good thing may digital out (Toslink and component).

What it does give me is a cheaper option but an analog one(walang zero ;D).

If you mean the 5.1 analog output, it's quite useful. DVD players that have that usually supports DVD-A and/or SACD. You'll really need the 5.1 output.

That would Toslink and Coaxial :)

Offline atomicat10

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #15 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 03:05 PM »
Thanks, learned a lot.

Offline ATJr.

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Re: 5.1 and DTS question
« Reply #16 on: Nov 10, 2005 at 04:05 PM »
When you use digital connections, the data is always in RAW form. You need a decoder (in your case, a receiver) for this.

RAW in this case means "digital" and decoder here means, digital to "analog converter"
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