Author Topic: Newbie and Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on anything Tubes  (Read 97525 times)

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Offline hyperaudio

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for tubed equipment users and would-be users out there, post on!

MOD NOTE:

merged all newbie and not-so noob questions threads, set this as a sticky. post away.
 :)
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2009 at 10:31 PM by iiinas »

Offline Mika

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Sir Hyperaudio,

What are the signs / early indications of a tube nearing the end of its life? Would it be possible to detect this without electrically testing the vacuum tube? Aside from sound degradation, what other physical observations should we look out for?
(- For those wanting to buy second hand tube amps)

Thanks,

Mika  :)

Offline MeowPao

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Ahh... it's about time someone started a thead like this.  :)

I got lotsa questions for the master of Tubes  ;)


1. These Tube amps look kind of fragile. Is this true?

2. I've read somewhere that Tubes get very hot. Won't this be dangerous, and won't this affect performance?

3. Are Tubes 'high maintenance'? Are the parts ultra expensive?

4. What type of speakers are best suited for Tube amps?

5. Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater purposes? Like can I use it to watch my favorite DVD?

6. Being analog, can I plug in my CD player to the Tube Amp? How will it sound anyway?

7. Where can a newbie get a start-up tube setup? How much would it cost? Can you give a basic example for all would-be tube users out there?  ;)


 :) :D :) :D
« Last Edit: Jun 14, 2002 at 11:15 PM by MeowPao »

Offline hyperaudio

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mika (ur handle sounds familiar),
physically; usually you'll notice the mercury or that silver
thing on the side of the tube fade out until such time that the whole tube glass is transparent or the mercury still there but outlined with a brown coloration. worst, the silver thing is replaced with a powdery white substance. this means the tube is kaput. some defective tubes wont exhibit anything like the above. in that case (when in doubt), just bring those tubes to me and will test them for free!

Offline hyperaudio

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yes, it's about time! i just hope my fellow tube alumni
(shoemaker, hyperion, vax, vintage dog and practically all tube users) would help me answer the questions
posted here. i may have 20 years experience with tubes
but i hope to learn more from all of you guys.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY to all daddies out there!

Offline Racio

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Ahh... it's about time someone started a thead like this.  :)

I got lotsa questions for the master of Tubes  ;)

5. Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater purposes? Like can I use it to watch my favorite DVD?

6. Being analog, can I plug in my CD player to the Tube Amp? How will it sound anyway?

 :) :D :) :D

Hi MeowPao,

If you may, I’ll lend a li’l helpin’ hand to the “Master” by answering a couple of your questions. “Can I use my Tube Amp for Home Theater” you say? An emphatic yes! I actually started out this route.  :D

Months ago, I chanced upon hearing Stuazon’s VAC Renaissance 70/70 Class “A” power amp with the coveted 300B tubes, and needless to say, I was bowled over. I’ve fallen victim to tube addiction ever since. So to cut the story short, when I got my hands on a pair of vintage VTL C-160 monoblocks (160Wpc), I realized that , without a pre-amp, the only way I could integrate these babies to my existing HT system was to hook-up my Marantz receiver’s pre-outs to the VTL’s line-ins. It was pretty straight-forward really. Of course, the tubes only drove the front L&R speakers while the rest (center and surrounds) was by the Marantz. But still, the result was, for lack of a better word… phenomenal.  :o  It's as if the artist is standing right in front of me with her breath passing thru my cheeks every time she utters a syllable of her song.

I subsequently played around 50 or so cds and dvds and even a li’l cable tv viewing without hiccups. Even with my SF ‘Tino’s lowly 88dB sensitivity, it never clipped. Admittedly, this is attributed to my relatively powerful VTLs, which mated perfectly with the ‘Tinos. So, careful matching must be in order. Your typical guide would be the lower your speaker’s sensitivity, the higher the nominal amplified power is required. However, this lends in a number of other factors to consider (speaker impedance deviations, power amp load aptitude, room acoustics, music preferences, etc.) so, I’ll let the “Master” elucidate this particular issue further.  ;)

One must take note though that these tubes do need replacing. And from what I read, and from what the “Master” told me, a set of properly biased and matched tubes would last between 4000 to 8000 hours of listening bliss (depending on actual use, ambient temp and tube quality). And this is the reason I decided to finally move the tube amps to a dedicated stereo only listening room. I eventually cringed at the thought of watching F1 in 5.1 at the expense of my tube’s.   :-\

You must evidently take extra measures in maintaining a tube amp. The routine of turning on the source first, then the preamp, and lastly properly warming up the amp before letting any audio signal pass through it, is to me, a sort of “foreplay” if you will. And as with love-making, the surge of pure “ecstasy” is then reached at its climax, but in a strictly “aural” sense of the word that is.  ;)

Hope this helps.
-Racio  8)

P.S. Here’s a link to other HT owners who recently became “tube converts”: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=d0ec4ad02c1a2183422b145fb264f1f2&threadid=75537

« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2002 at 03:52 AM by Racio »

Offline Mika

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thanks hyperaudio,

oh i see!!, all the while i thought the black thing was bad. sort of like the thing you see on your incandesent bulb when its out of service already.

racio, can you please share other words of wisdom that the "master" has imparted to you (like a jedi master to his apprentice) with regards to tube amps. you mentioned warm-up time (how long?) and matched pair (why?/spare tubes?).
you're very good with your analogies. thanks!!

mika :)

Offline Racio

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racio, can you please share other words of wisdom that the "master" has imparted to you (like a jedi master to his apprentice) with regards to tube amps. you mentioned warm-up time (how long?) and matched pair (why?/spare tubes?).
you're very good with your analogies. thanks!!

mika :)

Mika,

Hahaha LOL!  :D I kinda’ like that… I shall now attempt bringing in to light the “force” that was handed over to me by the “Master” himself.  ;)

Generally, the warm-up time takes between 5-15 minutes. It really depends on what the manufacturers indicate in the amp’s manual. Since my VTLs were too old to come with its own manual, I usually stick to 6-8 minutes. However, I hear that with some audiophiles with truly expensive gears using those sought after New-Old-Stock (NOS) tubes (Mullard, Brimar etc.), their warm-up time takes almost half an hour or so.

Most amps are designed that they require power tubes that have similar “cathode current”. Even tubes of the same type (eg. 300B, EL34, 6065, KT88 etc.) made at the same time and the same manufacturer (Sovtek, Svetlana, JJ/Tesla etc.) usually have variations in their cathode current, and this is why testing and matching is required. Not all amps actually require it, although it doesn’t hurt to have 'em matched. In "car-speak" terms, you can liken this to let's say, when you equalize tire pressures (pairing-up) for your fronts and then rears. Most dealers don't even charge extra for matching (unless they're NOS of course). Tubes are paired/matched up based on their “plate current draw”. Measuring this plate current draw under operating conditions is usually considered to be the most accurate method for rating a power tube, and this is how the “Master” does ‘em. I purchased my Sovtek KT88s matched already as indicated by having the same serial numbers for every pair.  :)

This hobby obviously puts a dent on everyone’s wallet, may it be SS or tubes. Quality really comes at a price, no surprise there. But there is a way around this, one can eventually go tubes by digging up some vintage beauties out there... well, just like mine. The “Master” for one has a lot of ‘em ol’ beauties up for sale at absolutely down to earth prices. Lito Gelano (Sensible Audio) is another viable source. Or perhaps, you might find one thru the classified ads, or as one here popularly points out, from a friend of a friend  ;) . You’ll never know, you might find a gem in an attic or basement somewhere. Also, fellow member corrsty is actually offering a chance for tube sound lovers to purchase these “ear candies” at an affordable price.  :)

The thing in valve amplification, which I’m totally crazy about, is that if your existing setup’s “sonic character” doesn’t suit your taste, then just swap ‘em tubes to an alternative brand or to another compatible type and voila’: you’ve a new and different sounding audio system. Sorta’ like changing your fav car’s mags to a larger diameter, your ride then takes on a different “persona” doesn’t it? There is an abundance of information in the net about different tubes and their, let’s say, “individual charm and appeal”. Why call it a “hobby” if you can’t have any fun with it, right?  ;)

‘Till next then.
-Racio  8)

« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2002 at 07:43 PM by Racio »

Offline hyperaudio

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hi meowpao,
it's the tube itself that's fragile (coz it's glass he he) but definitely not the tubed equipment (te). almost all te are sturdily built and very heavy. mostly made of heavy gauge steel or aluminum. add that to the numerous large transformers, you got to have muscle to handle these.
tubes really do get hot until they reach a stable operating temp. te need ventilation to operate well;
just free space around it at room temp, not really aircon or electric fans pointing directly to it. they don't really consume much electricity as many people think. e.g., a dynaco st-70 at 35 wpc consumes about 200-220w.
as long as te are fed the correct line voltage, they're not high maintenance at all. a new power tube lasts
for 3000-5000 hrs, preamp tubes much more. once you get hooked to tubes the question will be: will there be
somebody to maintain my te? i don't know of any rehab centers for tube addicts so proceed at your own risk.
te need not be expensive. it's just this BS high-end philosophy that makes it one; make a tube amp costing $500; sell this for $2000 so high-enders would notice.
but upgrading to designer parts really improve the sound of existing tube amps (more of this later). a good te design with a good alchemy of inexpensive parts can smoke a high-end unit costing several times more. to top it all, properly repaired and restored vintage tubed
equipt ALWAYS sound good. as for replacement tubes, thanks to the current tube manuf like sovtek, svetlana,
tesla , shuguang etc., they have become available and affordable.
as for partnering speakers, te are usually happy with
high sensitivity and high impedance ones. i've had very
good results with budget british bookshelf speakers with 88db up sensitivity. smile, the speakers most of us are having now are tube-friendly. e.g. a 15wpc 6bq5-
based integrated amp driving a b&w 302 or 303 can take you to sonic nirvana (a bit exaggerrated but true).
tubed equipt for home theater? musicals and concerts, yes but movies, not really. it's not that tube equipt can't handle the impact of movie sound effects. the loud sound effects (explosions, gunfire, driving soundtrack, etc.) can wear the power tubes easily so relegate that chore to your favorite ht receiver. but nothing can beat
watching and listening to "hell freezes over" on a te, albeit only in pcm mode.
precisely it's the invention of the digital medium (cd) that precipitated the revival of tubes. the forgiving sound of tubed equipt has kept "digital glare" to a minimum (if not eliminated it). ever wondered why the x-10d has become a billion seller? need i say more?
for starters, you can have tube sound  at about P7,000
to P8,000 for an X-10D, about P10,000-P12,000 for a modest restored vintage integrated amp, from P25,000
for a pre and power amp combo, and so on...
" the sweetest sound comes vacuum-sealed".

Offline vintage_dog

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first of all, thanks to hyper for starting this tread.

as most of you already know,  no one even/ever comes close to hyper when it comes to tube-audio experience!  (well, that comment will surely guarantee a nice discount from rene next time i buy something from him  ;D)

i still remember the first tube gear i got from hyper several years ago (a jolida 302)...as an upgrade to my solid-state systems - acurus, nad, and a few others.  must have been a decade ago...actually less.  after that,  some simple tweaks, some mods, and i was on a roll...then into some of the fancy stuff like the very pretty (and expensive) jadis...then a 2a3 single-ended amp...and recently (well 2-3 years now) into vintage amps.

there's no turning back...am hooked...and hooked bad.  i know my stuff do not come close to what hyper and a few other tubeheads have, but i'm a die-hard tube fanatic!   a vintage dog!!

what i'd like to see are more people get hooked into this hobby....share experiences, whap gear, have fun!!!

so, thanks rene for getting me into this crazy hobby and for being there for all of us tubeheads!

more (tube) power to everyone!!

v 8)t



Offline levi

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For more details about Tubes check this out Vacuum Tubes Overview

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Single Ended Triode (SET) amps have only 1 output Triode tube per channel.  Pinaka sikat dito is the 300B Triode tube because of its musicality.

Pro: Very musical, only 1 output tube

Con: Low power, a 300B (SET) normally has 5-10 watts per channel.


Push-pull (hindi po bastus ito) tube amps have more than 1 output tube (triode or pentode) per channel.

Pro: More powerful than SETs

Con: IMHO, less musical than SETs


Normally, more output tubes, mean more power.  Different output tubes have different power outputs also.

Some purists prefer these low powerd SETs.  To achieve listenable levels, they get very efficient speakers.

Tama ba Hyperaudio?

Offline ArchitecturalAudio

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Single Ended Triode is actually comprised of two things:  1) Single Ended pertains to the design in which the tubes work; and 2) Triode pertains to the type of tube utilized in the circuit.

Push pull is a design in which the tube works like Single Ended.

Here's a more detailed explanation (obtained from the net):

Triode, tetrode and pentode are types of vacuum tubes. A triode is a vaccum tube with three active elements: anode, cathode and in between them a grid. The current through the valve (from anode to cathode) can be controlled by applying a varying voltage on the grid.
Tetrodes and pentodes have additional grids compared to the triode.

The tetrode has a fourth electrode inserted between the anode and the control grid (I think its called a screen) in order to lower the capacitance in the tube. It seems tetrodes are rarely used in audio amplifiers but I don´t really know why. Beam tetrodes (KT88 et al) have included a pair of electrodes to "direct" or "focus" the flow of electrons towards the anode to lower the amount of electrons bouncing back (secondary emission) to the screen thereby creating a current flow from anode to screen.

Pentodes (6550, EL34...) have yet another grid, the supressor grid, inserted between the screen and the anode. The function of the supressor grid is to make sure that the electrons bouncing off the anode do not reach the screen grid.

To confuse newbies even more, the designers have found that beam tetrodes and pentodes can be connected in triode mode... i.e. they are working as a triode even though they have the extra electrodes for working as a beam tetrode / pentode. Some say they sound better connected this way but the available output power usually goes down.

Ultralinear, push-pull, single end, parallell single end are all configurations of the circuit in which the tube works.
One tube driving one speaker means the configuration is single end. Two (or more?) such tubes in parallell gives you parallell single end. Two parallell output tubes means double the output power. In a push-pull configuration (always tubes in pairs) one tube gets a negative input at the same time as the other tube gets an identical positive input (one tube pushes while the other pulls). In this configuration the even order harmonics are cancelled so that the output power becomes more than double than that of a single tube.
Ultralinear is a configuration where a connection is made from a special winding on the output transformer to the screen grid of the tube(s) so that a certain level of feedback is obtained. This is supposed to give lower disortion and a flatter frequency response. Ultralinear can be used push-pull or single ended.

More confused now eh??  Hehe!!


Offline Mika

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mga audio gods,

sirs, why do some tube amps lack the punch (bass) needed in some music passages? i've read that tube amp designs have compromises. if you want that thump, the mid and highs will suffer and vice-versa. pero richness and clarity wise, tube amps are miles away from s-s amps. bakit pati hindi masakit sa tenga, pagtapos mong makinig ng music using tube amps?

thanks,

mika

rtsy

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For question 1, check out, do a search on the Web.  I think I read on Audio Asylum a post that compares the sonic characteristics of different tubes (w.g., JAn Philips vs. Siemens vs. Sylvania vs. Sovtek vs. Mullard vs. Amperex, etc.

For question 2, M_shoe_maker answered that for you already.

For question 3, I saw one available here, an AMC, at Ceratec in Megamall.  Ah! Tjeob s the other.  Did I spell that correctly?  I'm not sure if Cary CDPs also have tube outputs.

For question 4, most of these hybrids I see have tube on the pre-amps and solid states on the amp.  A recent very succesful combination is the Musical Fidelity X-Pre, XA-50 combination.

On statement 5, you probably didn't see the rest of his stuff.  I got a pair of Ixos 105 digital coaxial interconnect at sub PhP1k.  I saw a passive "pre-amp," essentially a volume control, with a high quality pot for sub PhP4k.  The prices on the Rotel stuff he sells are 5-10% cheaper than in Singapore, arguably the electronics capital of Asia.  And prices are relative.  His PhP100k monoblock may be more elsewhere.

Talk to him.  Tell him your needs and budget.  If he says he can't help you (like he did when I asked for a tube integrated that can make my 'Tinos sing for PHP5k), all you lost is the time to go there and the effort to ask.  ;-)


1. meron akong mf x10-d na ang tube nya ay jan philips maiiba ba ang tunog pag pinalitan ko ito ng ibang brand.
ano ang magandang tube para mas lalong bumuka ang tunog. depende rin ba ito sa system mo at type ng music na madalas mong pakinggan.

2. ang ang pinag iba ng x-24k, x-dac, at x-10d

3. meron akong nabasa dati na cd-player i think marantz ang brand nya na me tube sa loob nito maganda ba ito at meron ba niyan dito at magkano kaya.

4. bakit marami ang nagsasabi na pag tube ang power amp mo at solid state ang pre amp mo e masama raw ang labas kesa vise versa.

5. salamat doon sa una nyong reply at lease naliwanagan ako kahit papaano. pag nanddon kasi ako kila rene eh puro tubo ang gamit nya at ang mamahal pa pero napakababa ng mga output nya dati nag tanong ako 180K ang isang monoblock nya kaya times 2 para sa isang setup. again salamat mga kapatid.



Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Man o man, somebody stole my post!  >:(

Anyway here it is again (medyo iba na!)  :(

Hi rony, here are some answers to your questions.  Siyempre, this hobby of ours is very subjective so others may have different views:

1. Corek ka dyan, changing bands of your tubes will definitely change the sonic characteristic of your equipment (X-10D).  Just remember that you can change the brand, but not the model / number.  For the X10D, its the 6922 a.k.a. 6DJ8.  The best?  Well, kanya kanyang panlasa yan.  Some say its the Amperex "Bugle Boy", some say its the Siemems.  Try to experiment and pick what you fancy.

2. The X-24K and the X-DAC are Digital to Analog Converters.  The X-10D is sort of Buffer Stage.

3. As to the Marantz, I am not sure about that.  But there are indeed some CD players with tube output stages.  Some say, (again a subjective issue) that having a tube output stage in CD player helps "tame" CD sound.

4. Again it all boils down to the individual perception of each person - very subjective.  Also, system matching is very important.

5. Ganun talaga yun since Rene's tube stuff are all labors of love.  Also, the high price is justified by the prime parts he uses.  Kumbaga sa kotse, super-duper kargado.

Offline notaku

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guys what Speakers are you using for your tube gear?  

i saw a page on the web featuring an klipsch rf-3/s.e.t. combo, i know klipsches play loud but tonally are they good with tubes?  how about impedance?  the 98db rf-3 goes for php 52k on the avsurfer (avid) site-reasonable for a Reference-series floorstander, but standmounts go for 50k (rb-5 ii) and 40k (rb-3)-overpriced!  

i've also heard soliloquy (audio den), easy to drive and gorgeously-made, but the sound seems to vary widely with diff. amps-anyone here tried them?

any recommendations?

Offline notaku

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one more thing-what can you say about this italian solid-state integrated, w/c allegedly sounds just like a tube amp:  the audio analogue puccini (audio den)-?

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Me, I'm using an old 35-watt per channel Dynaco ST70 power amp to drive my old Spica TC50 speakers.

No thunderous bass, but with good recordings, I'm very much satisfied with the midrange.

Offline corrsty

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Hi notaku,

A 9 watt per channel SE tube amp can drive my Mission 772 (85 db/w/m) speakers easily.  This depends on what kinds of music you usually listen to, how loud you listen to music and the size of your listening room.  My listening room is small so no problems there.  You would be surprised how loud your speakers can be driven by these modest powered tubes.  Yesterday, I tried the 9 wpc tube amp with a pair of Mission 601's and the sound was loud even when the volume is only at the 9 o'clock position.

What speakers are you currently using and what speakers are you eyeing to buy?

corrsty

Offline vintage_dog

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one more thing-what can you say about this italian solid-state integrated, w/c allegedly sounds just like a tube amp:  the audio analogue puccini (audio den)-?


well, an office colleague of mine owns an analogue puccini SE (the more expensive version) driving a kef floorstander.  he was quite pleased with it until he dropped by the house last week and listened to one of my vintage amp systems.  net, he ended up bringing home one of my vintage amps - he bought the stromberg-carlson asr-433 12wpc of tube power driven by 4 6bq5's at 1/4th the cost of his ss amp.

the s-c amp has better resolution, and far more air and musicalilty, he is now selling his analogue puccini.  he also contacted me as he is interested in getting another amp, like the welborne-labs-modded dynaco st70.

cheers!

Offline hyperaudio

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it's a common misconception that tubed equipt lack punch. in reality, tubed equipt give excellent bass
though admittedly not as tight as their solid-state counterparts'. you'd be wondering where the bass comes from listening to a 15 watt '60s scott integrated amp driving 87db mission 773e or 88db b&w dm-303
speakers.
roni, the monoblocks you saw or heard at the shop
was a pair of all-out no cost-object  single-ended 300b power amps somebody commissioned me to build for him (and it's P180k for the pair). whew, that's really scary but this is not the stuff i usually sell. they're usually P10k-P20k restored vintage amps or stock dyna stereo 70's from P20k-p25k or my favorite hot-rodded chrome stereo 70 at P40k. btw guys if you need personal computers or computer peripherals or accessories, roni's the man. just pm him for your needs.
about the x-10d, stay with the stock tubes. the tubes that would cause substantial changes on the x-10d
sound would cost the same as the x-10d itself. i'm talking of siemens cca's, telefunken ecc88's or mullard
ecc88's here.
« Last Edit: Jun 20, 2002 at 10:31 PM by hyperaudio »

Offline Racio

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1. meron akong mf x10-d na ang tube...
-snipped-

3. meron akong nabasa dati na cd-player i think marantz ang brand nya na me tube sa loob nito maganda ba ito at meron ba niyan dito at magkano kaya.

Hi Rony,

Ok pala pare e, meron ka na ng X-10D. Isang hakbang na yan patungong tubes. Actually, tube na nga yan.  ;) Pero, mukhang naubusan na ako ng sasagutin dito ah. Sinagot na ng mga kapatid natin sa pananampaltayang tubes halos lahat ng tanung mo. Pare, nahihirapan na ako. I-inglesin ko na to para umiksi. Hehe ;D . Pasensya na pre’.  ;)

Sagutin ko na lang ang #3 question mo, yun lang ang medyo nawisikan lang ng sagot  :) . Well, for starters, the main parts in a typical cd player are usually the cd transport mechanism, the digital-to-analog converter (DAC), power-supply, and the output stage. Moreover, most players use a very simple one-component solution for the output stage and it's called an Operational Amplifier (op-amp). Huwag ka magalala, nahilo rin ako nung inumpisahan ko to.  ;)

Actually pare, there are a number of tubed/valved cd players in the market, one is the MF Nu-Vista 3D choke-regulated cd player with the rare nuvistor tubes, another is the Jolida JD100 tubed cd player, and the yet to be released and perhaps the most aesthetically striking, is the Music Hall CD-T100 cd player. You really ought to see it so that you'll know what I mean, here’s the link:http://www.responseaudio.com/CDTP.htm  :o :o :o

Then there are companies that modify these Marantz cd players you mentioned. Two comes to mind and both are Dutch: Ah! Njoe Tjoeb (pronounced as “aha new tube”) and Heart (pronounced as…eh “heart”  ::) ). Why Marantz you say? Well, aside from it being mass produced (“cheap” in other words), one of the main reasons is because of its Philips Servo drive. It's already a proven and time tested drive that is used on numerous "high end" players and transports.

Anyways, Ah! originally came out with the Tjoeb ’98 then the Tjoeb ’99. And to date, owner Herman van den Dungen has released his latest cd player: the Njoeb Tjoeb 4000. This is essentially a Marantz CD4000 cd player modified with a tubed DAC, hence the “4000” moniker. Ah! offers a variety of tweaks for their li’l player. Aside from changing the stock 6922 tubes to the more popular Siemens 7308, they have these what they call “Ah! Tjoeb Tjoens Op-amp Flavor Kits”, and comes in two... eh "flavors": LC Audio AD825 op-amp or the Burr Brown OPA627 op-amp. An absolute tweakers' delight.  ;)

Then there’s the Heart brand manufactured by hi-fi dealer Rik Stoet, who owns a small Dutch company that also manufactures tube amplifiers. Stoet though has a more extensive line-up compared to Ah!’s. These are the CD4000, CD5000 and CD6000. Yes, they carry the same model designations as w/ their stock Marantz counterpart (I must say, they ain’t very imaginative in naming their models  :-\ ). But Stoet goes a step further than Ah!’s valved DAC, this is by eliminating all op-amps from the signal path in favour of an all-tube output stage. If you check Audio Asylum, most of the AA “inmates” pick the Heart's over the Tjoeb's, specially those who own both cd players. But of course this is, again, very subjective.  ;)

So pare, napahaba na naman ako. Pasensya na. May pagka-insomniac kasi ako e.  :-\

Sa susunod ulit,
-Racio  8)

« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2002 at 11:36 PM by Racio »

Offline ArchitecturalAudio

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Just wanted to add information on Racio's informative post.

The Music Hall CD-T100 is actually a Shanling CD player (CD-T100).  Musical Hall obtained the distributorship of the said CD Player for the US market.  Shanling is actually a Chinese company that makes various electronic products.  If you decide to get this cd player, buy it in Asia since it's true price is almost half of Musical Hall's $1,900.

http://www.shanling.com/html/CD-T100e.htm

Cheers.

Offline notaku

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hey corrsty i used to listen to missions-702s, connected to an hafler pro amp, a diy dact phono stage, and a technics turntable-courtesy of my uncle, a real pro.  except for the missions and a pair of nht super ones (great little speakers!), we had nothing but big jbl's and yamaha's.  but that was before my uncle married and went back to ticao island, masbate...  

...right now i play cd's on my computer, w/klispch promedias, that's why i'm interested in the real klipsch-these play LOUD, and reading this thread i was intrigued with pairing them with tube gear.  yup, i've 'heard' tubes and i certainly acknowledge their mystique, but being used to powerful amps and speaker-busting playing levels-well...

...'course, i've read somewhere that "you do not use a Ferrari to haul lumber."

actually, i've got another thread where i'm seeking advice on a home theater setup.  this forum has been very informative, to the point that i'm now primarily looking for a music-only, two-channel setup.  loudness is no longer an issue, but versatility still is:  i want to explore music beyond new wave, metal or whatever adolescent stuff i used to listen to.

i'm seriously considering an arcam a85/dynaudio pairing.  i heard the contour 1.1, but i'll likely end up with the audience 52 coz there's no way i can afford both the contour and the krell amplification it deserves.  

for the source i'd like to listen to the sound of sacd before making a decision.  i heard the dynaudios with a cal audio dx-2 cd player and i did hear the merits of (even an older model) dedicated player over a primarily dvd machine, even over a high-end one like pioneer's 838:  for the price of an 838 i can get a true cd player plus a dvd/cd-rw/mp3 compatible like the pioneer 533-and of course i still have my computer.  but there may be a case for the new formats...

as for tubes, sorry, i'm strictly a beginner, man, got to learn to swim before straying into the 'deep water'.

i think this is really the main issue against tubes:  unlike plug-and-play ss gear, you need to have experience, be very well-informed, have access to people who can answer your questions.  

but i don't agree with the statement that tubes are for "pasosyal"-types:  gear is just a means to listen to music, if it has the added effect of bringing you into contact with like-minded people-hey, that's even better!  

Offline Racio

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-snipped-
as for tubes, sorry, i'm strictly a beginner, man, got to learn to swim before straying into the 'deep water'.

i think this is really the main issue against tubes:  unlike plug-and-play ss gear, you need to have experience, be very well-informed, have access to people who can answer your questions.  

but i don't agree with the statement that tubes are for "pasosyal"-types:  gear is just a means to listen to music, if it has the added effect of bringing you into contact with like-minded people-hey, that's even better!  

Hi notaku,

Well, I can’t agree with you more that for a newbie, "going tubes" is really intimidating. Believe it or not, just March of this year, I was definitely more of a beginner then than you are right now. During that time, I was only interested in just getting my very first dvd player and 5.1 receiver. I was absolutely clueless about tubes, to the extent that if you’d shown me then a KT88 on one hand and a Philips screw-in 60W bulb on the other, I would’ve thought that they’re the same, and would have just pointed-out that one’s “frosted” and the other isn’t!   :-\

It so happen that I was totally taken aback by stuazon’s VAC during the HT EB, I felt that I owe to myself to learn more about the mystical world of tubes. I’m sure you’re well aware that the net offers an abundance of information about valve amplification, and most provide a good read for even the technically challenged. I can’t say that a couple more hours of surfing would hurt. And then I met hyperaudio (RR), who in his own right, is a walkin'-talkin' tube encyclopedia.  ;)

I, too, didn’t know how to “swim”, but I instinctively dove the deep waters like an infantile kingfisher and grabbed my very first catch. Right, without prior experience, just a bit of info stuck in me head, and the unyielding support from fellow members like manila, M_Shoe_Maker, eejit, vacuumtubes, stuazon, hyperaudio et al, I took the plunge and grabbed myself a pre-owned pair of tubed monoblocks.  :D

Needless to say, my wife was aghast when she first saw what I just brought home! She thought that some shrewd salesman sold me an ol’ pair of weird looking chandeliers.   ;D

And now, I've me own li’l piece of “sonic heaven”, if you will. I must admit though that I’m still learning a lot from this hobby. It’s a continuing process. But what hobby out there isn’t? It’s like buying a... car; it’s just an appliance ‘till you start tinkering with it and becomes your personal pursuit for leisure and contentment… a hobby.  ;)

-Racio  8)
« Last Edit: Jun 26, 2002 at 01:09 PM by Racio »

Offline rony

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thank you hyperaudio na ikabit ko na yong x-10d na binili ko sa yo. mas maganda ang inilalabas na tunog nito kesa dati ko. meron nga pala kong di nakuha na cd sa yong scarlet III nawala na rin sa isisp ko. babalik ako sa yo tomorrow wednesday. again ty at naihanap mo ko ng mf x-10d.

Offline hyperaudio

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anytime rony! thanks! you're on your way to audio nirvana.

Offline hyperaudio

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anytime rony! thanks! you're on your way to audio nirvana.

Offline Racio

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thank you hyperaudio na ikabit ko na yong x-10d na binili ko sa yo. mas maganda ang inilalabas na tunog nito kesa dati ko. meron nga pala kong di nakuha na cd sa yong scarlet III nawala na rin sa isisp ko. babalik ako sa yo tomorrow wednesday. again ty at naihanap mo ko ng mf x-10d.


Way to go rony!!!  :)

-Racio  8)