Author Topic: Difference bet. entry level integrated amp. vs. receiver: night & day ba?  (Read 3878 times)

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Offline classicman

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This is to solicit po your honest-to-goodness inputs & not to initiate a debate on the matter ;D:

I'm in a situation wherein am contemplating to put up a 2nd set-up inside our bedroom after buying a pair of B&W 602s3 & LCR60 w/c are now being used as front speakers & center at my HT room.....so nagkaroon ako ngayon ng spare na pair of bookshelf speakers & center (yung mga luma kong ginagamit sa HT), eh nagkataon na meron din akong extrang DVD player & 1 CD player, so amplifier or receiver nalang ang kulang for a 2nd set-up.

This is now my predicament:  I would really love to build a purely audio set up & plan on getting a Rotel 02 sana, but at the back of my mind a voice is telling me that my wife & kids might not enjoy it as much as they would if a mini-HT is established instead.....the versatility & practicality of a receiver now comes into the fold.

This brings us now the question of how much advantage (difference) does an entry level integrated amplifier such as a Rotel 02 have over a so-called "musical" receiver such as an HK AVR-235 or 240?  'Night and day' ba talaga ang pagkakaiba so as to justify my being selfish in putting up a purely audio set-up instead of an HT?

Please post your inputs, thanks a lot in advance 8)
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2005 at 06:13 AM by classicman »

Offline ronjet

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interested din on this topic ;) thanks sir classicman

Offline classicman

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interested din on this topic ;) thanks sir classicman


sir ronjet, sa tingin ko marami rin ibang members dyan who are in the same predicament of having to make a choice as presented above ::)......hayyyy, kung marami lang tayong pera eh di no probs na sana, hehehe ;D

Offline oweidah

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hi sirs, whether its night&day u decide but from experience mas maganda sa audio ang integrated amp kesa sa avr. Yamaha rvx596 and 620 both whathifi rated 5star/awardwinners are very good  for ht but no match sa nadc320b. now para hindi na umangat sa mid-level avr ay ginamit ko yung front preamp-out ng yamaha rxv596 connected it to the nad c320b main-in parang merge audio at ht. but napansin ko na malakas ang gain, konting taas ng volume, lakas agad ng tunog. so i bought a power-amp for the yammy front channel- ang galing both sa audio and ht!
afaik nad c320bee at rotel ra-01,02 ok integrated amps but you have to match them with all the other components of your system (source-ic-speaker kbols-speakers).
just my mamera for the holidays! :)

p.s. DONT FORGET -ENJOY THE MUSIC AND FILMS MORE THAN YOUR GEARS! happy holidays ;D

Offline oweidah

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DONT FORGET -ENJOY THE MUSIC AND FILMS MORE THAN YOUR GEARS!

easier said than done?  ;D ;D ;D

Offline classicman

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hi sirs, whether its night&day u decide but from experience mas maganda sa audio ang integrated amp kesa sa avr. Yamaha rvx596 and 620 both whathifi rated 5star/awardwinners are very good  for ht but no match sa nadc320b. now para hindi na umangat sa mid-level avr ay ginamit ko yung front preamp-out ng yamaha rxv596 connected it to the nad c320b main-in parang merge audio at ht. but napansin ko na malakas ang gain, konting taas ng volume, lakas agad ng tunog. so i bought a power-amp for the yammy front channel- ang galing both sa audio and ht!
afaik nad c320bee at rotel ra-01,02 ok integrated amps but you have to match them with all the other components of your system (source-ic-speaker kbols-speakers).
just my mamera for the holidays! :)

p.s. DONT FORGET -ENJOY THE MUSIC AND FILMS MORE THAN YOUR GEARS! happy holidays ;D


sir oweidah, maraming salamat po for sharing your thoughts & happy holidays to you too...... 8)
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2005 at 07:11 AM by classicman »

Offline sillyputty

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depende po kung maganda pa ang inyong pandinig hehehe
kung audio ang pagu-usapan e definitely mas maganda ang pure audio setup...
pero kung di naman kayo ganun kapihikan pwede na yung mid-level na receivers.
suggest e mag home-audition kayo...isanag entry-level at midlevel na avr tsaka isang integrated.
kung pwede na stereo lang ang panonood nyo ng tv/ht e mas madali at mag integrated na lang hehehe

Offline av_phile1

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This is to solicit po your honest-to-goodness inputs & not to initiate a debate on the matter ;D:

I'm in a situation wherein am contemplating to put up a 2nd set-up inside our bedroom after buying a pair of B&W 602s3 & LCR60 w/c are now being used as front speakers & center at my HT room.....so nagkaroon ako ngayon ng spare na pair of bookshelf speakers & center (yung mga luma kong ginagamit sa HT), eh nagkataon na meron din akong extrang DVD player & 1 CD player, so amplifier or receiver nalang ang kulang for a 2nd set-up.

This is now my predicament:  I would really love to build a purely audio set up & plan on getting a Rotel 02 sana, but at the back of my mind a voice is telling me that my wife & kids might not enjoy it as much as they would if a mini-HT is established instead.....the versatility & practicality of a receiver now comes into the fold.

This brings us now the question of how much advantage (difference) does an entry level integrated amplifier such as a Rotel 02 have over a so-called "musical" receiver such as an HK AVR-235 or 240?  'Night and day' ba talaga ang pagkakaiba so as to justify my being selfish in putting up a purely audio set-up instead of an HT?

Please post your inputs, thanks a lot in advance 8)

I would not call the sonic difference "night and day" especially between entry levels and particularly when comparing the models you mentioned.  Even the subtleties of the differences, if any,  might escape you on a blind test.

It's a bit strained comparing an integrated stereo amp like the Rotel Ra-02 and an HT multi-channel amp like the Hk-240 or their similar entry-level models.   Definitely, as far as the amplifier "versatility" is concerned, there are more features on the HT receiver, like the  video switching, digital processing, audio format decoding functions and its 7.1 multichannel capabilities and sub-woofer connectivity. The RA02 is a simple analog 2-channel integrated amp, no subwoofer connectivity, no digital processing, no video switching. 

As far as musicality goes, I don't think I can go wrong with either.  Both can fulfill audio-only set-ups.  Based on published specs, the RA02 delivers a maximum of 40watt RMS into 8 ohms both channels driven while the the HK 240 in Stereo mode delivers 65watt RMS also into 8 ohms with both chanels driven but rated at twice the THD of the Rotel.  A lower THD would give Rotel a slight edge on paper (though audibly indistinguishable) but at the RA02's maximum volume the HK240 would still be far off from its clipping point.  The difference is only around 1.5db, hardly noticeable by human auditory faculties.  You often would need twice the power rating to yield a 3db difference in perceived loudness increment for a given volume setting. 

There's often an argument for specialized equipment.  2-channel gears for audio only stereo; multichannel for HT and the newer SACD and DVD-A formats.  But in general, I consider the 2-channel versus multi-channel gears as purely a matter of addition and quantity.  Not so much on quality. 

I think the two are in the same price point, less than 20T, if not mistaken.  I leave it up to your personal value judgement to determine which gear suits your requirement.  You definitely can watch a DVD movie in your bedroom with either.  The rotel would only be in stereo using the stereo outs of the DVD player.  No center chanel so that would leave your old center speaker very lonely.  For strictly audio-only set-up, the Rotel would make a good option.  It's slim and doesn't carry the bulk and heft of the HK.  OTH, the HK will give you 5.1 versatility and will still sound as good in stereo or bypass mode.  Plus you can use a subwoofer at line level with the HK for a 2.1 set-up if you someday find your speakers wanting in the bass department.  The Rotel can also use a powered sub if you want but at speaker level connection that has the potential to increase distortion depending on the sub used. 

Weigh your options with you and your family's needs to consider.  Personally, with all things equal, I'd get the HK, unless I'm really just after audio only, nothing else.  In which case, I'd get something else.   ;D

PS.  Should you decide to get the Rotel, it should pair better with your B&W.  Afterall, Rotel is the official amp for voicing and testing B&W speakers in its British factory.
« Last Edit: Dec 23, 2005 at 01:03 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline jerix

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This is the situation that really requires deep auditioning of the units involved, utilizing the expertise of your ears and not the ears of others. However, if there is no issue on MONEY, build two... one for your music and one for your HT.
Samsung65MU6303/TCL4kPS49TV/OnkSR608/OnkTXNR676/Marantz/Akai/Sansui/PrjEssential-II

Offline iceman90a

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without considering brands here are my thoughts...

- if you get another avr, you'll soon be tempted to get: another center, another sub, surrounds, etc

- at the same price point you're paying for more parts for an AVR vs an integ amp which means some if not all parts of the AVR will be "cheaper" than the parts used in the integ amp

- an AVR will have more features, will you need them or will they just be a source of upgrades or additional purchases in order to utilize them

- consider the space where you will set it up, will it have enough room for surrounds in the future

- if its for the wife and kids, will the set-up be simple enough for them to use? will you worry about the way they use it?
money is best spent

Offline H a n $

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Since you have your separate HT setup then better to have a 2 channel for audio para both meron ka and tska dapat easy and user friendly if for your wife and kids gagamit..

Offline oweidah

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sirs, like it or not, avr dami buttons to play with, imo teens/children may tsaga kumalikot pero wife? plug n play+volume lang ;D

if i were to start from scratch, i'll get an amp/processor (ex: yamaha dsp-e1000- 3channel amp- center and surrounds) or  an avr with front pre-out; and a good power amp, maybe tubes- for front channel duty. this way you have good audio quality whether playing dvds or cds or fm; dd,dts or stereo, using only one(1) pair of front speakers. :)

holiday cheers!!! ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2005 at 03:14 PM by oweidah »

Offline classicman

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thanks a lot guys for sharing your insightful thoughts on the matter, just keep them comin'....... 8)

Offline Vhongbiker

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magandang topic ito! hehehe...
mga teachers (guros) ano po masasabi nyo? ;)
Pray not for a lighter burden,
but for a stronger back....

Offline slowhand

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Hello classicman. Pardon me if I will answer a different question from the one being asked.

If I read it correctly, you have a choice of ending up with two HTs or one HT and one audio system? In your place I would opt for the latter choice. Or turn the "main" HT into a double-purpose system where the audio signals do not go through the receiver (this would need an integrated or preamp which can handle a processor input for movies). That way, everyone's happy.

Like you, I'm not initiating a debate, just presenting another choice.

Happy decision making!

Offline classicman

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Hello classicman. Pardon me if I will answer a different question from the one being asked.

If I read it correctly, you have a choice of ending up with two HTs or one HT and one audio system? In your place I would opt for the latter choice. Or turn the "main" HT into a double-purpose system where the audio signals do not go through the receiver (this would need an integrated or preamp which can handle a processor input for movies). That way, everyone's happy.

Like you, I'm not initiating a debate, just presenting another choice.

Happy decision making!


thanks a lot for sharing your alternative view, slowhand......you have the same point w/ oweidah & i think it makes a lot of sense :).......just keep them comin' guys so as to help me & others similarly situated to come up w/ an informed decision 8)
« Last Edit: Dec 26, 2005 at 08:57 AM by classicman »

Offline whipsaw

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hey classicman

am curious to know how you decided. i used to have a similar problem. wanna know how you resolved yours...

whipsaw

Offline rascal101

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Sir Classicman,

It would be nice if there is a dedicated system for audio and for HT. Since medyo matimbang iyung family sa akin I would go for the HT. However, I'm offering a different viewpoint as you can use an external circuit from your CD or DVD player to the AVR. This external circuit will not act like a pre-amp as there will be no increase or reduction of signals at the audio frequency range. This will maintain hi-fi for audio and still be acceptable for movies.

Rascal101

Offline classicman

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hey classicman

am curious to know how you decided. i used to have a similar problem. wanna know how you resolved yours...

whipsaw


hi whipsaw,

after i accidentally stumbled upon a pair of B&W CDM1 Special Ed., i don't have to agonize on how to resolve this predicament anymore since i now have 2 pairs of spare bookshelf speakers & a center.  it obviously made the path simpler for me to take but heavier on the pocket, hehehe :( ;D

so aside from our main HT, we have now a mini-HT at our bedroom sans the rear speakers after i bought a Yamaha HTR-5860 A/V Receiver & a Yamaha S-1500 DVD-A/SACD Player, w/c substituted my old gears in our main HT.  ang problema ko ngayon naubusan na ako ng budget for my integrated amp. & dedicated CDP :( :-\ :'(......kaya nga in the meantime, i created this other thread: ;D ;D ;D

http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=46199.0

 8)

Offline classicman

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Sir Classicman,

It would be nice if there is a dedicated system for audio and for HT. Since medyo matimbang iyung family sa akin I would go for the HT. However, I'm offering a different viewpoint as you can use an external circuit from your CD or DVD player to the AVR. This external circuit will not act like a pre-amp as there will be no increase or reduction of signals at the audio frequency range. This will maintain hi-fi for audio and still be acceptable for movies.

Rascal101


thanks a lot sir Rascal101 for sharing your thoughts, really appreciate it...... 8)
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2006 at 10:44 PM by classicman »

Offline whipsaw

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that ended well, classicman.

wondering though how you feel about having no rears? i am not into home theater though i have a nice b&w CM center speaker that no one seems to be interested in buying at 10k. hehe. so i was considering using it myself to pair it with my 802 floorstanders to watch movies. im after better dialogue mainly so i dont have to keel over to listen to my TV speakers. how does yours sound? do you feel you are missing much sans rears?

whip

Offline MAtZTER

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I have a similar predicament for my bedroom setup.

My LCD TV arrived and it was "tunog lata" :-\ with its thin speakers. Good thing it had an "audio out" and "subwoofer out" jack. So I gathered my spare audio equipment gathering dust and connected a Kenwood THX power amp to the "audio out " of the TV & then with my Mission bookshelf speakers. And also connected the TV to a (spare) pioneer non progressive scan DVD player. The power amp & DVD player had no volume control so I had to channel it to the TV for volume.

So far it was a very economical solution to boost the sound of the LCD TV to a basic 2.1 setup (the .1 is a spare Bose passive sub  :)) for watching cable/TV, dvd special features, concerts, p**ted dvds, non action (ie. romance) dvds and ....barney ;D.

No surrounds too, but If I wanted to watch movies with good surrounds or LFE, I will just go to the HT room. I am also thinking of whether to get any cheap 2nd hand receivers from the buy & sell section and form a simple 5.1 setup for the bedroom---when budget permits  ;D. But also thinking of  getting a simple tube audio setup.

Haaay, this hobby just never ends in draining your wallet. Buti na lang you created a dream HT thread, hahah ;)

Anyway,  I just wanted to ask if I can buy a simple (cheap) tube pre amp and connect it to the Kenwood amp for a basic audio setup? I have read about this somewhere but dont know much about these hybrid setups.

Offline iceman90a

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Anyway, I just wanted to ask if I can buy a simple (cheap) tube pre amp and connect it to the Kenwood amp for a basic audio setup? I have read about this somewhere but dont know much about these hybrid setups.

yes you can, in fact when the 1st Tono preamp came out - it worked quite well with Akyat's Kenwood power amp (same as yours).
money is best spent

Offline whipsaw

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yeah. i tried the AMX tube pre amp with an onkyo power amp. very nice. got clarity and power.