Author Topic: LCDs: Pictures looking very good at the showroom - Not when you've got it na! (Read 3119 times)

el-el · « **on:** Nov 08, 2006 at 07:35 AM »

Now I know why....

I was at MegaMall yesterday, Megatrade Hall... SM Appliance Center exhibit/sale...

I've noticed dun sa display ng LG, tamang tama, while I'm watching, they are trying to tweak some settings.... On their LCDs, the videos they are playing for demo (upscaled to 720p/1080i) looks very good, and are very clear....

Kaya pala! The demo videos they are playing go from 25MBPS up to 40MBPS!!!

We all know in fact that a crappy encoded DVD movie is just around 4MBPS, and a very good one is at about 10MBPS.... Ang daya 'no?

(can anyone confirm kung yung 25-40MBPS ay standard transfer rate ng HD-DVD through HDMI, or SD-DVD pa rin?)

...and so, they've deceived your eyes.... I'm sure ganun din yung mga demo ng ibang brands.

So, just an advice.... para makita nyo agad on the showroom pa lang what to expect from what you are getting, then pa-demo dapat mga movies, probably something your eyes are a bit familiar with...

moks · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 08, 2006 at 10:55 AM »

Quote from: el-el on Nov 08, 2006 at 07:35 AM

Now I know why....

I was at MegaMall yesterday, Megatrade Hall... SM Appliance Center exhibit/sale...

I've noticed dun sa display ng LG, tamang tama, while I'm watching, they are trying to tweak some settings.... On their LCDs, the videos they are playing for demo (upscaled to 720p/1080i) looks very good, and are very clear....

Kaya pala! The demo videos they are playing go from 25MBPS up to 40MBPS!!! We all know in fact that a crappy encoded DVD movie is just around 4MBPS, and a very good one is at about 10MBPS.... Ang daya 'no? (can anyone confirm kung yung 25-40MBPS ay standard transfer rate ng HD-DVD through HDMI, or SD-DVD pa rin?)

...and so, they've deceived your eyes.... I'm sure ganun din yung mga demo ng ibang brands.

So, just an advice.... para makita nyo agad on the showroom pa lang what to expect from what you are getting, then pa-demo dapat mga movies, probably something your eyes are a bit familiar with...

the one that they are playing are really high def videos so definitely if you are comparing it to a dvd video it's not an apples to apples to comparison.

eijneb · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 08, 2006 at 11:26 AM »

sometimes they're using pc pa nga para sa demo nila, i was in 5th floor mega and i saw ganzklar lcd display, ok na namn, yun nga lang naka G5 sila. mas madaya diba. well in my views tama rin sila eh, kse ang strategy nila is to show kung hanggan saan ang kaya or ang napoproduce ng lcd nila. sana yan ang ipakage nila

el-el · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 09, 2006 at 01:17 AM »

Quote from: moks on Nov 08, 2006 at 10:55 AM

the one that they are playing are really high def videos so definitely if you are comparing it to a dvd video it's not an apples to apples to comparison.

well, my point lang naman is para maiwasan yung ganung reaction sa mga bibili ng LCD TVs, especially for those who haven't realize such fact that you even confirmed....

DVD player playing high bit rate videos.... The 25-40MBPS is not the encoded DVD data, but the actual/raw data being sent through HDMI (including the audio)....

baby · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 09, 2006 at 01:37 AM »

I'm sure only a few will not know of these "daya" that the showrooms do. Before you buy those LCD or Plasma or any HD- monitor for that matter. You should do a research first before purchasing it. Well my guess is that more than 50% now that have any HD monitors or planning to get one are Pinoy dvd members. So a lot of us know these things and thanks to pinoydvd we have knowledge.

el-el · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 09, 2006 at 10:21 PM »

Quote from: baby on Nov 09, 2006 at 01:37 AM

I'm sure only a few will not know of these "daya" that the showrooms do. Before you buy those LCD or Plasma or any HD- monitor for that matter. You should do a research first before purchasing it. Well my guess is that more than 50% now that have any HD monitors or planning to get one are Pinoy dvd members. So a lot of us know these things and thanks to pinoydvd we have knowledge.

Well, 50% is quite a number already.... that's very good....

chiemonyo · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 12, 2006 at 04:15 PM »

Do you think guys we should call it "daya"

or they are just showing the max potential of the TV? D naman kasi lahat ng TV using the same 25-40MBPS source can display same pictures. Siguro matatawag lang nating daya yun eh kung itatanong natin kung ano ginagamit nilang source tapos sasabihin nila eh standard DVD player with HDMI lang

.. just me and my .02...

So i suggest kung bibili kayo ng bagong display, it's better to bring along your DVD player or ask the staffs kung meron sila same as yours then yun ang gamitin mo for testing, then adjust mo yung mga picture setting nung TV of your choice to your taste. to see what you're looking for...

MAtZTER · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 02:10 PM »

Yes, they usually use PC images & videos, of course they will look great. Always look for the source.

Also, regarding those brands w/ sub 100k LCD's and they also sell a same size but more expensive, higher res 150k model. You will definitely see a difference cuz you are watching from a few feet away & there is something to compare it to.

But if the LCD TV is at your house, you watch 4 meters away & without an adjacent TV to compare it to , it will awe you more than enough.

So for me, the cheaper model will do.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 02:57 PM »

Quote from: el-el on Nov 08, 2006 at 07:35 AM

Kaya pala! The demo videos they are playing go from 25MBPS up to 40MBPS!!! We all know in fact that a crappy encoded DVD movie is just around 4MBPS, and a very good one is at about 10MBPS.... Ang daya 'no? (can anyone confirm kung yung 25-40MBPS ay standard transfer rate ng HD-DVD through HDMI, or SD-DVD pa rin?)

Depending on the codec used, high definition bitrates can go as high as you mentioned. Blu ray disc using MPEG2 codecs look gorgeous at more than 30mbps average buitrate, but can be awful at less. (That is why the first blu ray discs wre not impressive.) OTH, high def discs using VC-1 codec are gorgeous at lower bitrates of 18mbps.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 03:11 PM »

Quote from: chiemonyo on Nov 12, 2006 at 04:15 PM

Do you think guys we should call it "daya" or they are just showing the max potential of the TV? D naman kasi lahat ng TV using the same 25-40MBPS source can display same pictures. Siguro matatawag lang nating daya yun eh kung itatanong natin kung ano ginagamit nilang source tapos sasabihin nila eh standard DVD player with HDMI lang .. just me and my .02...

So i suggest kung bibili kayo ng bagong display, it's better to bring along your DVD player or ask the staffs kung meron sila same as yours then yun ang gamitin mo for testing, then adjust mo yung mga picture setting nung TV of your choice to your taste. to see what you're looking for...

I don't think it's daya if the idea is to maximize the screen's native resolution potential. Those HDTVs will really look aweful if they don't get high definition signals to begin with. Even upsampled SD DVDs don't look as good as HD DVD or Blu ray of the same title on the same HDTV screen. So to really appreciate HDTVs, you really need High Def sources feeding it.

ralfy · « **Reply #10 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 03:43 PM »

Very, very good advice! Should I bring some standard DVDs to the store and have them played to check the quality?

jgl · « **Reply #11 on:** Nov 19, 2006 at 10:04 AM »

Quote from: ralfy on Nov 13, 2006 at 03:43 PM

Very, very good advice! Should I bring some standard DVDs to the store and have them played to check the quality?

By all means, do so. I would do the same. Bring samples of your most familiar dvd's and look at how they show up in their units. The idea is to try simulate the closest environment as possible to what you will actually be having. This includes the source disks. So playing your disks would give you an idea too if their units would for you. Good luck!

MAtZTER · « **Reply #12 on:** Nov 19, 2006 at 01:59 PM »

..and dont nitpick the LCD PQ from 2 feet away when you will be watching at 4m away at home.

du1mij · « **Reply #13 on:** Nov 19, 2006 at 10:12 PM »

A salesman from one of the more popular appliance stores admitted that they got a lot of flak from those who bought displays from them because when the owners fired their units at home, the image wasn't as impressive as it was back in the shop.

I would call it "daya" if sales people do not consciously inform the buyer that they are using customized HD sources for their flat panels. They shouldn't assume that every customer is knowledgeable. Not telling the truth (which could be considered different from telling a lie) shouldn't even be an acceptable practice. They must see to it that they make full disclosure of the demo environment.

For a while they stopped using HD sources as demos but resumed using them again but this time they make sure of informing the buyers that what they are seeing are HD images.

ralfy · « **Reply #14 on:** Nov 20, 2006 at 12:06 AM »

I visited one store where a regular DVD was being played on both a CRT and an LCD, and the image on the LCD was OK: not as bad as a VCD but not as good as a CRT. The image looks a bit better, though, from at least 4 m.

Does anyone use LCD with Skycable Platinum? How does it compare to a CRT?

baby · « **Reply #15 on:** Nov 20, 2006 at 07:09 AM »

I was ia a appliance store with a family who is buying a LCD. Ang sarap batukan ng saleman. I heard him not explaining very well the specifications and general info of the LCD. I cut in and ask if what is the max output of the video. And he said I don't know. "Basta yan po ang pinakamalinaw na LCD".

dannielsimone · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 02, 2006 at 12:36 PM »

From my experience ....Firstly I have been shopping around now (while researching) all different aspects of HD LCD Plasma and rear projection. Most salesman in the retail shops( Abensons, ansons, Sony, automatic center) are not experts and I would suffice to say are vaguely acquainted with the ever changing technology not to mention there own products and ever changing specs. Some however do know there s**t pretty well. But none or very few will come forward and reveal info about there products that will expose its weaknesses( especially to a comparison shopper like most of us on this board) UNLESS YOU ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. So.....you got to ask the salesman what type of source is this great quality picture coming from.....and will I get the same picture when viewing my DVD on my standard player at home . (Have seen so many salesman try to duck the big question on picture quality when viewing standard sky cable and even platinum. Almost none will say they have installed that model and it preformed very well. .... but many will say.I have a client and he said.......or....from what I hear...or to my understanding.....or I think that.....or I read some where that. (Non committal rhetoric).

So is it Daya?.....well not really..as long as you ask the right questions (and can read between the lines).

I,after weeks of trying, am still trying to find out how the Sony SXRD 50 inch and the new 40 inch X series LCD hold up (picture quality wise) when getting its signal from sky platinum. It is a big factor in my decision making process.

Went to l"LISTENING IN STYLE" in Edsa Shang as I heard they have a standard sky cable connection...and they do...but they are third in line on the TV splitter and the reception/picture looked like crap on the Sony S series as well as another brand.

Would love to get a straight answer to the sky platinum question from a real user...not a salesman.

Any helpful insight would be appreciated.

Thanx

dannielsimone · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 02, 2006 at 01:03 PM »

Oh yes..forgot to mention...I always bring a copy of a DVD from my collection (Matrix and Lord of the rings) and ask the saleman to play this on a regular DVD player using RCA jacks. This will help me judge a HD TV based on its overall picture quality. I will also bring a DVD of a live Concert ( red hot chili peppers) which will let me judge its color spectrum (brilliance and accuracy) as well as the TV's audio.

Discuss please!

Clondalkin · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 02, 2006 at 02:38 PM »

Quote from: MAtZTER on Nov 19, 2006 at 01:59 PM

..and dont nitpick the LCD PQ from 2 feet away when you will be watching at 4m away at home.

2 feet is OK if your test signal is HD.

Clondalkin · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 02, 2006 at 02:55 PM »

I can only base my opinion on my Sony 32DX850 CRT and Sharp 37GD6 LCD when viewing DVD, analog Japanese broadcast and Sky Perfect TV (satellite TV). The latter 2 are very much better quality than our local Sky Cable. I haven't tried Sky Platinum though.

The LCD only looks better than an HDTV CRT for HD viewing. Period. DVD playback is not so bad, but for color latitude, clarity and overall smoothness of image, CRT definitely still looks better at the same viewing distance. Feeding anything analog on an HDTV will turn out crap...paiba iba lang ng level ng crappiness...kung positive ang attitude mo, "puidi na rin kesa wala" ang pinaka-complement na masasabi ko. Anybody who says na "parang HD" ang quality ng picture when they view a DVD on an HDTV certainly have not seen real HD movie yet. My 20 yen.