Topic: The Wowowee Tragedy at Ultra: Your thoughts on the incident

[rascal101]

Very tragic ... Sana instead of tv stations placing grim pictures or footages of the dead ipakita rin iyung mga efforts to help those na namatayan or nasugatan. Don't know if GMA-7 extended help to those in need but I hope  they did. This incident isn't about what's the better station, this is about reaching out to people in need.

Also, hope that people stop pointing fingers and do a thorough investigation to find out what really happened. I hope that people stop issuing blanket statements.

[jerix]

Maybe sociologist can find better reasons why despite the incident, people would still like that show to continue. Under such a circumstance, people would just go home but I cant believe when these people even cried "tuloy ang show!" We also have heard the story that so many of these people too  were still asking for the ticket while they were already beside these dead people -- crazy i think. It seems that we are now going back towards the barbaric system of survival of the fittest. 

[Excalibur]

Regarding this stampede, it was reported and many people I know confirmed it to me, that Joey said in Eat Bulaga something like,"dito na lang kayo manood, kasi ang mga tao dito buhay" then made a cut gesture across his neck using his finger.

last night at the TV Patrol, they reported this for a few minutes, interviewing the mtrcb head.
but at the end of the report, a one liner was stated by their entertainment reporter:
"however, the mtrcb did not find anything wrong with mr. de leon's comments" (in tagalog).

[wrAth]

Eat Bulaga and its hosts, particularly Joey, frequently get into forgettable run-ins with the MTRCB.

but Revillame has had a couple of suspension-resulting reprimands from the ratings board.

He's probably wishing now that he had stayed outside of the limelight after that incident.

[wrAth]

I think USec. Marius Corpus was way out of line in emotively presenting the findings of his results. He should have kept objective to distance himself from the already angry mob, and to avoid providing ABS-CBN the chance to portray themselves as a victim in this issue.

[Excalibur]

Di kasi talaga tayo magaling sa "Capacity Planning".  Whether for family, event or infrastructures.   Yung mga design or preparations ay laging may bottleneck.

this is about attitude kasi. most pinoys chose to be "short sighted" o kaya nagmamadali.
hindi naman siguro nagkulang sa pilipinas ng mga nakakaintindi ng operations mgt (research) di ba? 

[Excalibur]

I think USec. Marius Corpus was way out of line in emotively presenting the findings of his results. He should have kept objective to distance himself from the already angry mob, and to avoid providing ABS-CBN the chance to portray themselves as a victim in this issue.

in a way, his use of figure of speech was quite surprising.
akala ko nga, calm and controlled sya. until that statement.
seeing that image in my mind, nagulintang ako.
(giving a small piece of meat to a pack of hungry wolves)

just this morning, the abs thru MUP went to the offensive mode
& called usec corpus on the air. they managed to get an apology from him.
but it did not end there. the reporter-anchor then took a swipe at the government.

[Excalibur]

Maybe sociologist can find better reasons why despite the incident, people would still like that show to continue. ... It seems that we are now going back towards the barbaric system of survival of the fittest. 

that's a good point. 

the next question would be,
will the media companies use socio-economic and psychological theories to guide their decision
making/s for their next projects as the main factor? or is it ratings?

your guess is as good as mine.

[Ice Storm]

A lot of the audience wanted to continue with the TV show because they're dirt poor. People with money can afford to have a sense of morals and stop to contemplate further the ethical implications of what happened that day. A lot of people who went to Wowowee came as far away as Mindanao for the chance to win the prizes.

If you've experience true poverty you'll understand why the audience wanted to go there and continue despite everything. You'll understand why they love Willie and his antics. Willie gives them a sense of hope that neither the government or the religious has ever given them. The government makes a lot of promises but never did deliver. The religious say they'll get their riches AFTER they died while the Wowowee gives them a realistic chance NOW!

If Satan himself appeared today and satisfied the poor's wants and needs then you'll see the first Satanic State in the world.

Now all the politicians and media outfit have descended from their high lofty perches to feed off the tragedy like vultures. The best we can hope for is that govt will take steps to make more stringent rules on crowd control. I do hope the victims will cause a major but not fatal financial hit at ABS-CBN when they go for a class action case. This will only be the way these jokers will learn and ultimately help the poor.

[wrAth]

in a way, his use of figure of speech was quite surprising.
akala ko nga, calm and controlled sya. until that statement.
seeing that image in my mind, nagulintang ako.
(giving a small piece of meat to a pack of hungry wolves)

just this morning, the abs thru MUP went to the offensive mode
& called usec corpus on the air. they managed to get an apology from him.
but it did not end there. the reporter-anchor then took a swipe at the government.

mali talaga si Corpus. para tuloy syang Kapuso.

ABS will start using this as the linchpin for its self-pity and anti-government propaganda. If so, i hope other media organizations will play this against ABS if only to neutralize the situation.

[rascal101]

I think USec. Marius Corpus was way out of line in emotively presenting the findings of his results. He should have kept objective to distance himself from the already angry mob, and to avoid providing ABS-CBN the chance to portray themselves as a victim in this issue.

This is precisely what the typical politician is in the Philippines. Emotions weigh heavier than actual evidence. Hindi ba tayo marunong mag-imbestiga. Mas magaling pa yata ABS-CBN or GMA-7.

[Ice Storm]

This is precisely what the typical politician is in the Philippines. Emotions weigh heavier than actual evidence. Hindi ba tayo marunong mag-imbestiga. Mas magaling pa yata ABS-CBN or GMA-7.

When you appoint instead of promote people this happens.

[wrAth]

When you appoint instead of promote people this happens.

I think the Undersecretary item is a career position though.

[Ice Storm]

I think the Undersecretary item is a career position though.

So is the position "Secretary" but half of the time political appointments are made as "utang ng loob".  A cousin of Sen Magsaysay was once slated to be a DTI Undersecretary but the deal fell through.

[wrAth]

Aren't all secretaries-to-be required to go through the commission on appointment, ergo they need to be endorsed/nominated by the President? I can't seem to recall any past or present member of the cabinet who is a pure career official.

I believe Usecs. don't need to undergo the scrutiny of the CA anymore. but i guess nothing won't stop a president from giving a position in government to a person of his/her choice.

[jeckjeck]

Back to the topic:

Heard an update on the radio that the DOJ returned the report of the ULTRA Fact Finding Team as it was insufficient to determine any criminal liabilities. As per Sec. Gonzalez, the report was just an account of what happened with recommendations on how to prevent future stampedes. There were not much evidence and testimonies.

Well... what else can you produce when you're trying to beat a 72 hour deadline set by PGMA? PGMA should not have set a deadline in the first place... 

[jerix]

I think so that they can determine the negligence or the degree of culpabilities of all parties, the investigating committee should produce first the clear standard of preparations that should be used as benchmark, so that any thing less than that will be considered prima facie evidence of negligence. Under circumstances, it is necessary to study statistics, like the proportion of security officers, health officers, ambulances, toilets, etc. in relation to the number of people expected to attend the show which anybody could not have not predicted.

[indie boi]

People with money can afford to have a sense of morals and stop to contemplate further the ethical implications of what happened that day.

Are you saying that people faced with poverty can opt not to consider the ethical ramifications of their actions? Just want to clarify this...

[Ice Storm]

Are you saying that people faced with poverty can opt not to consider the ethical ramifications of their actions? Just want to clarify this...

The poor dont choose to put aside ethics & morals in the same way they are able to choose to be poor or not. This is similar to the debate on DVD piracy. It isnt a choice of whether it is legal to buy legit DVDs or not but what they can afford. How else can you explain the crowd wanting the show to go on? They came from all over the Philippines for the chance to win big prizes that can make or break them.

Personally I would pause and try to sort things out before even entertaining the idea of the show to continue but if acid is burning a big hole in your tummy and the tummies of your kids you'd rather get the chance to win money as soon as possible & bahala na yung Diyos sa mga namatay.

Thus my statement that non-poor people can afford ethics & morals. How else to explain why people becoming garbage men or prostitutes? I dont know of anyone who dreamed of growing up being either.

From the description of Wowowee by avid watchers it isnt a very good show and is very humiliating. Why allow yourself to be humiliated for a few thousands of pesos? I wouldnt but then again I'm not poor.

[Mr. Big Boy]

I think that behavior is not exclusive to the poor.   I don't think those people who join Fear Factor are that poor and desperate to eat live worms, spiders, bull testicle and exposed their naked bodies in a ballroom full of people because of the money, but they do it anyway.

[Ice Storm]

I think that behavior is not exclusive to the poor.   I don't think those people who join Fear Factor are that poor and desperate to eat live worms, spiders, bull testicle and exposed their naked bodies in a ballroom full of people because of the money, but they do it anyway.

Was there a stampede in FearFactor as well?

[Excalibur]

i heard that abs reported that ultra violated a number of building codes.
bakit ngayon lang nila ininvestigate ito?
if they knew it then, would they have pushed through with ultra as their venue?

[Excalibur]

i heard a report last nyt about a relative of a dead victim of the stampede
who was frustrated about the amount he was supposed to receive as a support
for the costs of the burial.

he said that mr. lopez & ms. santos promised to him that
abs will shoulder all the costs.
but later, a social worker from the abs cbn foundation said to him that
abs can only give up to 50 grand.
(correct me if i am wrong guys, jurisprudence daw states that 50 grand kasi
ang general amount to be "given" to the family's victim)

but his bill now amounted to 75 grand. 
the social worker told him that beyond 50 g,
it should be the family who will shoulder the cost.

i hope mr. lopez will fullfill his promise to the families of the victims to shoulder all the costs
and not hide behind the jurisprudence.

[Excalibur]

from the inquirer's ceres doyo (human face),

qoutable quotes from the tragedy:

“I was not even aware that ‘Wowowee’ was having its first anniversary.” -- Gina Lopez, head of ABS-CBN’s Bantay Bata Foundation, speaking as guest at ABS-CBN’s “Straight Talk with Cito Beltran.”

“Ayan, namatayan ako ng anak.” [There, now I have lost a child.] -- a father, after finding out that his young, only daughter, whom his wife insisted on taking along, was crushed to death.

“Nagkanya-kanya, basta maka-una lang.” [It was each man for himself, trying to get ahead.] -- Sen. Richard Gordon, head of the Philippine National Red Cross.

“I saw something very wrong, very, very wrong.” -- Police superintendent Vidal Querol, his voice almost cracking, after he saw people stepping over the dead and clamoring for raffle tickets.

“Gusto lang namin sila mapasaya.” [We just wanted to make them happy.]
-- “Wowowee” host Willie Revillame.

“Even with all the dead around, many people were still asking for raffle tickets.” -- a paraphrase of what TV producer Marilou Almaden told the fact-finding committee investigating the tragedy.

[kobe]

Lesson learned here (or the lack of it) is we Filipinos just don't have the apprehension of everything that had happened in the past.  We blame ABS-CBN, the PNP, LGU and everybody except ourselves.  This craziness should have prevented if only we have the values of being civilized.  Poverty is not a reason that we should sacrifice the lives of others.  Poverty is not a reason that we go back to stone age.  One resounding example is people commuting the mass transit system.  Everybody seems to be in a hurry they would push, shove, step on someone just to get in.  And what amazes me, even those in barong, neat long sleeves and tie, they become animals let out of their cages.  These are educated people and look how they behave.  Ladies and gentlemen, we just don't get it.  We are so knowledgeable we tend to ignore simple and basic things.  VALUES. 

If we only know how to fall in line... If we only know how to give respect to others... This tragedy should have never happened.  Until we learn from our mistakes, get back our values... we will be witnessing another sequel to this nightmare.

[jerix]

If they are already admitted to the show and something happened, ABS may be made directly accountable.  But when the incident happened prior to their admission to the show just like when people are still on their way going there, it is really unfair i think for aBS CBN to be charged for anything that happens.

Some families of the victims are even complaining "bakit daw 75 thousand lang ang tulong?" -- Excuse me! In what sense that they have to demand an amount if they consider it as "tulong?"   In the first place, they were not forced to go there.  All right there were tempting prizes, but for me whether to go or not to go is entirely the responsibility of the people.

These people are no longer children who may not have the full capacity to discern what is right or wrong, whether they have to proceed  to the show or not.

[elvenears]

i heard that abs reported that ultra violated a number of building codes.
bakit ngayon lang nila ininvestigate ito?
if they knew it then, would they have pushed through with ultra as their venue?

kasi yung mayor na nakaka-sakop sa ultra ay maka-abs kaya dun nila ginawa.....sa mga interviews nga eh, lagi nyang sinasabi "alam nyo naman tong wowowee ang daming natutulungan" tapos meron pang "hindi nila kasalanan gusto lang nilang tumulong" i mean come on!!!!ang daming nang namatay pino-promote pa nya!!!

[AICRAG]

Lesson learned here (or the lack of it) is we Filipinos just don't have the apprehension of everything that had happened in the past.  We blame ABS-CBN, the PNP, LGU and everybody except ourselves.  This craziness should have prevented if only we have the values of being civilized.  Poverty is not a reason that we should sacrifice the lives of others.  Poverty is not a reason that we go back to stone age.  One resounding example is people commuting the mass transit system.  Everybody seems to be in a hurry they would push, shove, step on someone just to get in.  And what amazes me, even those in barong, neat long sleeves and tie, they become animals let out of their cages.  These are educated people and look how they behave.  Ladies and gentlemen, we just don't get it.  We are so knowledgeable we tend to ignore simple and basic things.  VALUES. 

If we only know how to fall in line... If we only know how to give respect to others... This tragedy should have never happened.  Until we learn from our mistakes, get back our values... we will be witnessing another sequel to this nightmare.

AMEN ako rito bro!  BULLSEYE!!!
Values saka konting disiplina lang.  Hindi excuse ang kahirapan. Mahirap ka o mayaman kung walang values saka walang disiplina, eh magulo talaga.

Naalala ko tuloy iyung first time ko mag commute sa subway sa Tokyo.  Nasa isang side lang sila ng escalator para iyung nagmamadali makakadaan.  Fast lane kung baga.  Kaya iyung nasa gitna at ayaw tumabi, malamang pinoy din  he!he!

[Chito C.]

I work at shang mall and even at the mall makikita mo na magugulang talaga karamihan ng mga pilipino (rich or poor). Yung mga sasakay ng elevator sa 1st floor going up sasakay muna pababa sa basement para maka-una. Same din dun sa sasakay going down kapag marami nang nakapila mag round trip. To think na A-B crowd nang mall. Another example kapag traffic, maghihintay lang yung ibang drivers na may magsisimulang mag counter flow tapos sunuran na lahat.

[Ek-ek]

 ::)Amen to that!