Author Topic: Why do you love turntables? (Read 9854 times)

rascal101 · « **on:** Feb 07, 2006 at 09:33 AM »

Just wanted to start a thread on why you love turntables. Haven't listened at length for quite some time. Last significant time was when I was in grade school which was about 25 years ago. Most recently, I listened to the turntable of XLR_silver. Since I didn't spend much time, I couldn't really tell the difference between it and a common audio source such as a CD player. What is it with turntables?

iceman90a · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 07, 2006 at 10:43 AM »

its a means to play back music that are not readily available on CD

stereophile · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 08, 2006 at 01:17 AM »

Quote from: iceman90a on Feb 07, 2006 at 10:43 AM

its a means to play back music that are not readily available on CD

Even if you have the cd version, compare it with the LP and decide which format is the better sounding. In my experience, cd playback presents the soundstage like a painting: Two-dimensional, without depth, body, layering. Not so with analog. And then there's the bass... A DSD SACD comes close to what the LP presents. The drawback of SACDs is the dearth/shortage of materials.

rascal101 · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 08, 2006 at 09:09 AM »

Sir Stereophile,

How much to set-up a fairly good turntable? Ballpark.

Happy Dads Vinyl Shop · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 08, 2006 at 10:17 AM »

everytime I pop a record from my collection, I cant help but smile as i remember the days past. (obvious na tumatanda na ata ako)
-plus alot of vinyl cuts were not released on cd.
-walang pirated na vinyl

-and the sound is much natural than on cds.

yun lang

aHobbit · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 08, 2006 at 11:11 AM »

have some music materials only in vynil - so I have my TT. I love my TT because it is part of my productive gears which I use to enjoy varied musical pieces.

stereophile · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 11, 2006 at 07:11 AM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Feb 08, 2006 at 09:09 AM

Sir Stereophile,

How much to set-up a fairly good turntable? Ballpark.

Fairly good means many things to other people. If it's your first time to try analog, get an entry level turntable. Should you decide analog isn't for you, then you can easily unload it.

The cheapest bnew ttable is a Denon automatic ttable wc is in production. It has cartridge n built in phono(so you can plug n play asap). Abt 7-8T in The Home Theatre.

If you get a second-hand Technics, the entry level ttables like SL-1900, SL-1600, SL-1300 go for 6-8T, but with no cartridge. A Shure M44-7 cart will cost you abt 2T. Then you have to get a phono stage like the MF X-LP which goes for about 6-8T pre-owned.

Another in production ttable is the Goldring Gr-1. Seconhand units go for about 15T. It has stylus when bought initially. Still , you need phono stage.

Many like a Technics, because of its direct-drive, meaning no belts to replace. Its's nice for techno, disco, because you can adjust the speed using the pitch control. The GR-1 is an entry audiophile table. Belt driven. Nice for listening material which dosn't need pitch adjustment coz it doesn't come with any pitch control.

After all these there are many price points, the most expensive being the Caliburn ttable which costs USD110T!

Hope this helps.

bono · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 11, 2006 at 07:39 AM »

Superb sound of analog and also to play my collection of lp's.

rascal101 · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 12, 2006 at 01:45 AM »

Sir Stereophile,

Thanks ... very tempting to go analog ...

stereophile · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 13, 2006 at 11:53 PM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Feb 12, 2006 at 01:45 AM

Sir Stereophile,

Thanks ... very tempting to go analog ...

I grew up in the analog era. Then came cds...or as MSM calls them:compact disasters

. I embraced the new technology. It was convenient, no hassles about ttable set-up, stylus wear or belt replacement. Somehow, it never really sounded the same. Add to that the price difference between cd and 2nd hand lps. I missed the bass when playing disco, and more importantly, I couldn't alter the speed/pitch to inc the bpms.

A few years ago, I was in a shop, listening to an entry level turntable, and a rather worn lp. And yet, thru those ticks and pops, I could hear the depth n breadth of the soundstage, the naturalness of the tones, the weight and body of the sound, and the BASS...I realized immediatlely that my quest to achieve that sound could only be achieved by going back to analog. I did not bother to upgrade my digital front-end anymore. I have gone full circle, and am happily back into analog.

If you have a friend who has a ttable n phonostage, invite him over to set-it up in YOUR SYSTEM. This is the best gauge whether to take the analog plunge or not. If it sounds good, you will lose sleep over it. If you have relatives with old ttables and usually the lps to go with it, just ask them for it and have the ttable serviced/checked. You wil truly have analog on the cheap!

M_Shoe_Maker · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 23, 2006 at 01:06 PM »

Why do I love Turntables?

Maybe we can also ask; Why do I love Analog?

A lot can be said about the sound of analog vis-a-vis digital.

But as I mentioned in a thread on another forum, despite the sound, one of the reasons why like analog is, Record Collecting.

Albums in CD fomat are relatively easy to source.

But looking for that elusive album / artist in vinyl is another thing.

Whenever I find a particular album / LP that I have been long been looking for, I get excited and full of vigor, as if I was a kid given a huge chunk of candy.

I never felt that way when I had my CD stint before.

The thrill of the LP hunt is much more exciting, and the ultimate kill, is the ultimate satisfaction.

Going to the turntable itself, its simply artistry.

Turntable manufacturers are pushing the envelope by embracing exotic materials / high tolerance parts, and of course making sure that they not only produce a piece of musical instrument, but also a work of art.

Click the link below to see some works of art.

http://aca.gr/turntable.htm

ricky · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 23, 2006 at 07:33 PM »

Quote from: M_Shoe_Maker on Feb 23, 2006 at 01:06 PM

Why do I love Turntables? Maybe we can also ask; Why do I love Analog?

A lot can be said about the sound of analog vis-a-vis digital. But as I mentioned in a thread on another forum, despite the sound, one of the reasons why like analog is, Record Collecting.

Albums in CD fomat are relatively easy to source. But looking for that elusive album / artist in vinyl is another thing. Whenever I find a particular album / LP that I have been long been looking for, I get excited and full of vigor, as if I was a kid given a huge chunk of candy. I never felt that way when I had my CD stint before.

The thrill of the LP hunt is much more exciting, and the ultimate kill, is the ultimate satisfaction.

Going to the turntable itself, its simply artistry. Turntable manufacturers are pushing the envelope by embracing exotic materials / high tolerance parts, and of course making sure that they not only produce a piece of musical instrument, but also a work of art.

Click the link below to see some works of art.

http://aca.gr/turntable.htm

Nicely said bro,passion for the ultimate satisfaction is priceless

Lord Foo · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 24, 2006 at 05:41 AM »

record collecting for me...

izukiultra · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 09:33 AM »

Quote from: stereophile on Feb 08, 2006 at 01:17 AM

Even if you have the cd version, compare it with the LP and decide which format is the better sounding. In my experience, cd playback presents the soundstage like a painting: Two-dimensional, without depth, body, layering. Not so with analog. And then there's the bass... A DSD SACD comes close to what the LP presents. The drawback of SACDs is the dearth/shortage of materials.

In my observation, older music originally recorded in analog format are far better compared when transferred to CD's. Me to have an observation with it comparing same album between CD's & LP's . However, new Music recording recorded originally in digital Format are really not bad at all.

Most classic CD's even SACD or DVD-A format came from anlog format, transfer cannot maintain its original format that's why there is a minor degradation after the transfer.
:'(

My advise don't compare an apple from oranges, Analog & Digital debates will never end just like what comes first Egg or Chicken

. Somehow, Music is what we need!

izukiultra · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 09:37 AM »

Quote from: M_Shoe_Maker on Feb 23, 2006 at 01:06 PM

Why do I love Turntables? Maybe we can also ask; Why do I love Analog?

Audiophile term for Turntables is RECORD PLAYER. Analog is very general.

rascal101 · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 11:23 AM »

I believe CD playback has limitations due to memory & speed (DAC) issues. That is why Nyquist sampling theorem is used to reproduce original signal. Reproduced signal based on sampling seem to appear "less" accurate especially in CD wherein sample frequency is 44.1KHz which is roughly double the audio frequency BW (di man lang hinigitan kahit 3x). Problema talaga with high frequency signal. Parang umuulan lagi kapag nakikinig ako ng CD. Kulang na kulang sa reproduction.

odyopayl · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 05:54 PM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Mar 02, 2006 at 11:23 AM

I believe CD playback has limitations due to memory & speed (DAC) issues. That is why Nyquist sampling theorem is used to reproduce original signal. Reproduced signal based on sampling seem to appear "less" accurate especially in CD wherein sample frequency is 44.1KHz which is roughly double the audio frequency BW (di man lang hinigitan kahit 3x).

Anybody experienced this player? 352.8kHz or 384kHz (input signal dependent), 24-bit

http://www.marklevinson.com/products/specs.asp?prod=no390s

rascal101 · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 06:08 PM »

Something is fishy with the 192KHz and greater sampling. Something is not right. Anybody who's worked on DACs should know about this.

Also what does conversion mean?

izukiultra · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 06:26 PM »

Quote from: odyopayl on Mar 02, 2006 at 05:54 PM

Anybody experienced this player? 352.8kHz or 384kHz (input signal dependent), 24-bit

http://www.marklevinson.com/products/specs.asp?prod=no390s

Single ended output? Wow! 384Khz saw many sampling rate limited to 192khz only. Do Mark Levinson have their own DAC development?

rascal101 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 06:30 PM »

As far as DACs are concerned, I only know of Analog Devices and TI. And I would think these guys have better DACs than the rest?

bruno · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 11:05 PM »

Wolfson Microelectronics.

KVAR101 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 02, 2006 at 11:14 PM »

why do i love turntables:

we still have that national record player "na kinalakihan" namin owned by our dad.
i learned how to mix music with a karaoke & mini component (1991) then had my very first
electown turntable as a bday present..

i was a mobile dj from 2nd year high school to 4th year college..
we still have our LP's (mobile days/dad's/uncle's/lolo's) which we up to this day
did'nt thought of selling.

but its only now that i appreciate the SOUND, as listening to
"long playing"...

our old equipments are still here in the house:

garard (not working na)
national
technics SL1200 mkII (2units)
numark (pang scratch ni utol)

turntables,. first & true LOVE

rascal101 · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 03, 2006 at 09:47 AM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Mar 02, 2006 at 06:08 PM

Something is fishy with the 192KHz and greater sampling. Something is not right. Anybody who's worked on DACs should know about this.

Also what does conversion mean?

From what I gather CD media is recorded in a 16bit format and encoded with sampling frequency of 44KHz (am not quite sure about this) from an analog tape or LP. If this is true then audio information on the CD is crap. Hence, the "fight" here is about waveshaping circuitry on the DAC to reproduce what the original source sounded like. With very limited points to work with (due to the low sampling frequency) the DAC can only do so much. What would a higher resolution or higher sampling frequency contribute then? Sample the shaped waveform better?

I think some companies find that shoving "good" specifications help their cause in increasing sales. And some of us (including yours truly) have been lulled into the sense that better specifications = better performance.

M_Shoe_Maker · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 05, 2006 at 12:07 PM »

Oh, by the way, I'm selling 350++ Classical LPs in bulk for only P50T.

That would come out to be approximately P140 per pc.

This is perfect for someone starting the wonderful world of collecting LP.

izukiultra · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 06, 2006 at 06:21 PM »

How much is the retail of this?

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/turntablelust/goldmundref.jpg

rascal101 · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 04, 2006 at 11:32 AM »

Yehey nakabili rin ako ng tt nung nakaraang Biyernes. Karayom na lang ...

markmlists · « **Reply #26 on:** Apr 04, 2006 at 07:03 PM »

Congratulations Rascal! Ano nabili mo?

rascal101 · « **Reply #27 on:** Apr 04, 2006 at 08:55 PM »

Elac Miracord 50H

gearhead · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 03, 2007 at 03:42 PM »

even in my younger days of the simple phonograph, there is something awe inspiring/mesmerizing/hypnotic just watching the needle glide through the record grooves. i can spend long minutes at a time just staring at the stylus on top of a spinning vinyl.

Lord Foo · « **Reply #29 on:** Jun 03, 2007 at 04:12 PM »

Here's a post i found in a Vinyl forum posted by an oldster who really dug vinyl...

1. The negative side of Vinyl

1.1 Inner groove distortion and tracking angle aberration.
1.2 Channel Separation.
1.3 Speed deviations (Wow & Flutter)
1.4 Bass summed to mono and rolled off in many pop and non-audiophile recordings.
(But not true of all, especially the late 50's-60's classics and audiophile labels
that did their own recordings in the 70's and 80's......)
1.5 Record Wear. (Overwrought criticism though with the right table arm and cartridge)
1.6 Dynamic Range limitations. (see above)
1.6 Surface Noise.

2. The Positive Side of vinyl

2.1 Very wide bandwidth frequency response if the LP was designed to accomodate it
and the table/arm/cartridge can reproduce it.
2.2 There's something about transients (especially bass) that have better "perceived"
dynamics because the transducer is something in the physical universe that moves
to reproduce it in a fashion analagous to the original event. It has more "body".
2.3 Nearly every weakness above can be minimized if you want to throw enough money
at it and play the "right" records. Lousy mass market QC in the 70's/80's made
some vinyl suck no matter what it got played on......