Author Topic: Picture Calibration (Read 34249 times)

CeeV · « **Reply #60 on:** Mar 10, 2008 at 04:51 PM »

Quote from: macdon on Feb 28, 2008 at 04:53 PM

True enough - but I was merely gunning the idea for testing purposes and not taking it as gospel. Besides, if I dont like it, pwede naman cguro bumalik sa default eh

+++1 po ako d2...Pls do share us Your settings...Sort of a ballpark figures for us para at least meron na kaming starting points...share ur expertise guys pls.

mrm · « **Reply #61 on:** Mar 10, 2008 at 07:21 PM »

hi to all,
Thank you mga sirs for your support. Will be doing my calibration this weekened, and will post
them the following day. Thanks.

mrm · « **Reply #62 on:** Mar 15, 2008 at 11:38 PM »

hi to all,
here are my initial calibration results using spyder2 colorimeter and hcfr.

What I did was (on my pana 42pv70)
set color temp to warm
mpeg nr to off
color management to on
picture to cinema mode
contrast 48
brightness 48
sharpness 24
color 50
What I set on my philips dvp5986k (thru hdmi upscale to 1080p)
set picture to personal
brightness = 0
contrast = 0
sharpness = 7
color = 0

RGB Graph

As you can see from my out of the box results previously, the Red Green and Blue are now almost in
straight line. and the delta E now has appeared and it is maintained below 4. I will still try to improve
on this later on.

Color Temperature Graph

Again in this graph we have achieve almost the optimum value required which
is 6500k along the line.

Gamma Graph

still no improvement on this. will try to make it near 2.2 average.

Luminance Graph

Again no improvement on this also.

Overall there was big improvement in the grayscale measure and color temp.
Color tones has improve dramatically than before. Luminance and gamma
meed lots of work still to be done to get them close to target.
CIE diagram will also be tackled later on.

Thanks.

mrm · « **Reply #63 on:** Mar 15, 2008 at 11:54 PM »

and by lowering my BRIGHTNESS to 25 i was able to achieve this; Edited this portion on 6-27-08. mistype error. contrast should have been brightness

Gamma graph

Much nearer to our target of 2.2 average

and

Luminance graph

Almost there also. but my CIE Diagram is still way off. must be something still wrong
with my calibration to get the required CIE. will still work on it next time and also
improve on my results on all graphs.

But overall, there was a big improvement already with the color tones looking more natural.
Thanks again.

mrm · « **Reply #64 on:** Mar 16, 2008 at 08:39 AM »

hi,
Please feedback naman diyan sa mga may pana na na-calibrate na. Would be appreciated
if you could post your settings here so we DIY'ers could improve on our experiments.

Thanks.

mrm · « **Reply #65 on:** Mar 17, 2008 at 10:35 PM »

hi,
this is my latest update on my calibration. here are the results.

On my pana 42pv70 ( no settings on service menu touched yet)
Menu - cinema
Contrast - 55
brightness - 25
color - 46
sharpness - 28
tint - middle
color temp - warm
color set - middle
color management - on
mpeg nr - off

on my philips dvp5986k
hdmi connection
picture
brightness 0
contrast 0
sharpness 7
color 0

RGB graph looks ok

Luminance graph looks ok also

Gamma graph has improve, nears 2.2 average

Color Temp looks ok also

Cie graph is still not ok but has improve a little the last time.

Nemesis91 · « **Reply #66 on:** Mar 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM »

Halos perfect sir ah.

charlie 669 · « **Reply #67 on:** Mar 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM »

Finally bought spyder 2 from sir jeff.

mura lang its better to own one than to have it calibrated every month. keep the post i'll also get info from you guys!

mrm · « **Reply #68 on:** Mar 18, 2008 at 06:56 AM »

Quote from: Nemesis91 on Mar 17, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Halos perfect sir ah.

Hi, ang problem na lang is the cie. rine-research ku pa nga ito kung paano ma-tweak ito.
They said that if you're a perfectionist then you would want to tweak this also. I'm not.
I just want to learn this also so that I can share. thanks

fnvillafuerte · « **Reply #69 on:** Mar 19, 2008 at 03:33 PM »

Hi mrm,

Thanks for your effort in sharing your calibration experience and knowledge here. May I suggest you also try calibrating the PV70 and Pio DV600 combination? There are alot of members here (including me), who are using this combination.

Thanks!

mrm · « **Reply #70 on:** Mar 19, 2008 at 05:05 PM »

Quote from: fnvillafuerte on Mar 19, 2008 at 03:33 PM

Hi mrm,

Thanks for your effort in sharing your calibration experience and knowledge here. May I suggest you also try calibrating the PV70 and Pio DV600 combination? There are alot of members here (including me), who are using this combination.

Thanks!

Hi sir,
I will be planning that one this weekend. My brother want his to be calibrated also and he also owns a pana 42pv70 and a pio dv600. I just hope
I get it right the first time so that I can post my results as soon as possible. Thanks.

young_Miklo · « **Reply #71 on:** Mar 20, 2008 at 07:49 PM »

^^^ will that tip improve pq of a plasma tv too?

mrm · « **Reply #72 on:** Mar 22, 2008 at 08:04 AM »

hi,
here is a link to all service menu codes for lots of tv's. Maybe of use later on during
calibration of our units.

http://www.bruzziforum.com/vbf/forumdisplay.php?f=5

CeeV · « **Reply #73 on:** Mar 22, 2008 at 05:42 PM »

@mrm....bossing if you will stumble to calibrate a Sharp Aquous LCD tv...pls do share again your settings..Thnks for your unselfish deed...sharing the knowledge.

mrm · « **Reply #74 on:** Mar 22, 2008 at 08:02 PM »

hi,
here are my first calibration results on a pana 42pv70 and a pio dv 600.

setting for pana
contrast 55
brightness 38
color 46
sharpness 28
tint middle
color temp warm
color set middle
color management on
mpeg nr off
setting on pio dv 600
in video adjustment
all settings are set to off or 0
in initial settings
chose RGB (because this was the default)

RGB graph

luminance graph

Gamma graph

color temperature graph

Cie graph

Notes: ( I tried using RGB and Full RGB and the results were worse than when using component that is why I settled for component
as my first test)

RGB graph suffers minor under saturation of red and blue. but the big problem here is the delta e (magenta line)
goes over our required 4 at the 90 to 100%.

Luminance lacks just a little

Gamma is not quite yet to the 2.2 average

Color temperature is ok
Next week I'll try to improve on this results. Base on my results this combination (pio 600 and pana 42pv70h) needs service code menu
changes in order to achieve the required results.

Thanks

fnvillafuerte · « **Reply #75 on:** Mar 24, 2008 at 06:20 PM »

Hi mrm,

Thanks for the settings you posted for Pana pv42 and Pio dv600. I tried your settings on my pana and pio, but I found the image to be too dark and too soft, also the color is too bright and too yellow for my taste. I wonder why your spyder2 colorimeter and hcfr calibration system recommended the settings above, it is really not appealing (subjective?). Maybe each unit require different calibration settings, so even if we have the same hardware, I cannot apply your settings to my hardware.

For purpose of comparison, I listed below my current settings which I find really very good to my eyes. I arrived on this setting using THX Optimizer (embedded in the Starwars and LOTR dvd) and Sound and Vision Calibration disc. Note that I have not touch the Pana service menu:

Pana PV42: about 500++ hours use when calibration was done
Mode: Cinema
Contrast: 70
Brightness: 65
Color: 42
Sharpness: 60
Tint: 3 clicks towards right
Color Temp: Cool
Color Set: Mid
Color Mgmt: On
Mpg NR: Off

Pio DV600: All init settings in 0, HDMI color set to Full RGB

Can you please try my settings and check the resulting graph, just to see how it compares to your graph.

Thank you.

mrm · « **Reply #76 on:** Mar 24, 2008 at 09:44 PM »

Quote from: fnvillafuerte on Mar 24, 2008 at 06:20 PM

Hi mrm,

Thanks for the settings you posted for Pana pv42 and Pio dv600. I tried your settings on my pana and pio, but I found the image to be too dark and too soft, also the color is too bright and too yellow for my taste. I wonder why your spyder2 colorimeter and hcfr calibration system recommended the settings above, it is really not appealing (subjective?). Maybe each unit require different calibration settings, so even if we have the same hardware, I cannot apply your settings to my hardware.

For purpose of comparison, I listed below my current settings which I find really very good to my eyes. I arrived on this setting using THX Optimizer (embedded in the Starwars and LOTR dvd) and Sound and Vision Calibration disc. Note that I have not touch the Pana service menu:

Pana PV42: about 500++ hours use when calibration was done
Mode: Cinema
Contrast: 70
Brightness: 65
Color: 42
Sharpness: 60
Tint: 3 clicks towards right
Color Temp: Cool
Color Set: Mid
Color Mgmt: On
Mpg NR: Off

Pio DV600: All init settings in 0, HDMI color set to Full RGB

Can you please try my settings and check the resulting graph, just to see how it compares to your graph.

Thank you.

Hi sir,
Thanks for your feedback. The results I showed you were just my initial test. I tried the settings I used on my pana and philips dvd player combi, the results
were those ones. they are not yet optimal and they are not yet the recommended settings( sorry for the confusion) . no calibration done yet, just tried my settings if the pana/philips can be applicable to pana/pio also. I guess they are not. I will also try your settings and see what happens.

Regarding your settings I would agree with you that yours is really very bright. When using "cool" settings I have notice during my test that this will push
the blue way up (over-saturate) hence very bright picture. Over saturate blue will make the color temperature higher, yes it looks good coz it is bright but that is not our target here. We want to hit the target of 6500k temp, because it is at this setting were we get optimum conditions for natural illumination. This will also depend i think from the room lighting you are in while you are calibrating. and like you said maybe not all hardwares are the same and require their own seperate calibration.

Here is some important observations I have notice while calibrating two different pana tv's. I found out that their default settings(color) in the service menu
are not the same. I was surprised because I thought all default settings for pana 42pv70 are the same. but their not. To be specific their color cuts and drives
are not totally identical. I don't know why. Maybe someone can give insights on this. Maybe that is also the reason why when you tried my settings (pana\pio)
they were not good enough. Maybe yours has different factory settings also for their color cuts and drives in the service menu. This is just my observation.
Any feedbacks and comments are most welcome. And also all my settings and results from the pana/philips to pana/pio combo are not yet final and not
yet optimal. I am also trying to learn just like the rest of us here.

Thanks.

mrm · « **Reply #77 on:** Mar 27, 2008 at 11:14 PM »

hi sir fnvillafuerte,
Here are the test results for your setup using pana 42pv70h and pio 600 with the settings you
posted. I followed them exactly as they are...

RGB Graph
here you can see like I observed earlier that the blue is so oversaturated that the magenta line is nowhere near.

Luminance,Gamma,Color Temp Graphs
Here it is so obvious that your settings does not produce good results or nowhere near our targets.
In the color temp graph we can barely see your result and this may be accounted to the "cool" temp
setting and your brightness that was raised so high (my opinion).

Results are not meant to accurately measure your hardware setup. the settings may work for you
but on my test setup they were not good at all. It may depend on many things. But atleast we
can used this results to make comparisons down the road later on.

Thanks

Marl☆1 · « **Reply #78 on:** Apr 09, 2008 at 12:24 AM »

Thanks to mrm, was able to use my Spyder2 more logically. Since sir mrm already posted the target graphs, will just post my before and after pics. Not yet perfect but I just realized that it's a really time-consuming endeavor. My 1st try took 4 hours, didn't even get close. My 2nd try around 5 hours, came up with some good results. Just to share, I calibrated my 61" Samsung DLP using my Oppo 980 and here are the results:

LUMINANCE
Positive changes here, the blue line is now practically aligned with the target grey-colored line

Before:

After:

GAMMA
Major improvement from a way-off 1.4 reading to a near-bang-on 2.2 target

Before:

After:

RGB
Hardest to tweak of all. Had numerous permutations and for each try, it took around 15 mins to set-up due to fact that I was accessing the service menu already (have to turn the unit off each time you change a setting for it to be saved), long on and off times for the DLP lamp. Not yet perfect but major improvements here for me as well.

Before:

After:

COLOR TEMP
Again from way-off settings, moving much closer to the 6500K target

Before:

After:

CIE
Minor changes here as a result of the tweaks done above. Hard to tweak something directly to affect this chart. Will need to study this more and get more inputs from mrm.

Before:

After:

Again, many thanks to sir mrm for helping me out. Cheers buddy!

mrm · « **Reply #79 on:** Apr 09, 2008 at 06:14 PM »

hi sir marl-1,
Nice looking graphs on your second try. it's good to hear that you almost got it on your second try, me I had more than
10 try's a before I was able to get the results I want. Your CIE diagram looks almost ok sir, way better than mine.

Will also try some retest to improve on my CIE when I'm not busy because it's very time consuming nga. maybe it's because we
are still just learning it. And also do some retest on the Pana and pio 600 combo.

Sir it would also be nice when you have time to share the settings on your DLP and oppo for the results you showed, for those
who have the same setup as you and have them try it and post their feedback.

thanks for sharing.

Nemesis91 · « **Reply #80 on:** Apr 10, 2008 at 11:13 AM »

Its good to know that you guys are now enjoying your tv w/the help of your spyder 2.

always remember once a month dapat ang calibrations.

Marl☆1 · « **Reply #81 on:** Apr 10, 2008 at 11:45 AM »

Quote from: mrm on Apr 09, 2008 at 06:14 PM

hi sir marl-1,
Nice looking graphs on your second try. it's good to hear that you almost got it on your second try, me I had more than
10 try's a before I was able to get the results I want. Your CIE diagram looks almost ok sir, way better than mine.

Will also try some retest to improve on my CIE when I'm not busy because it's very time consuming nga. maybe it's because we
are still just learning it. And also do some retest on the Pana and pio 600 combo.

Sir it would also be nice when you have time to share the settings on your DLP and oppo for the results you showed, for those
who have the same setup as you and have them try it and post their feedback.

thanks for sharing.

@mrm
Thanks bro, copy that. Will post the settings soon on my combo.

@Nemesis91
That's noted Jeff. Hehe, time consuming pero worth the results.

antikryst · « **Reply #82 on:** Apr 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM »

I have a Samsung R81 and calibrated it initially with the settings i found here...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513376

... i tweaked it a bit but i still find my settings TOO DARK when watching some dvds particularly when i watched ghost rider last night which had a lot of dark scenes towards the end. (pio dv400 via hdmi)

posting it here since this is a general question...how do i make it brighter while keeping my black levels black.

noticed that when i increase the brightness... the blacks become grey. i tried offsetting this by lowering the contrast down a bit but i still get grey and not black. im trying to find the brightest picture for dark scenes to show more detail without messing up the blacks.

any feedback would be helpful.

thanks.

streetsmart · « **Reply #83 on:** Apr 16, 2008 at 11:59 AM »

I find that link at avforums really strange.

My own experience is that the settings for the same equipment can be very different, even if both are brand new. My projector has a service menu with about 50 different settings. Feedback from other users shows that the settings vary from unit to unit because they are individually set by the manufacturer per projector.

Furthermore, the settings will change over time, as the bulb of the TV or pj ages.

In other words, you really have to fine-tune the settings for your particular TV, and you need to repeat this every so often, depending on how often you use the TV. You can't just copy the settings of other people, even if the equipment is exactly the same.

You can make basic adjustments for brightness, contrast, color, tint and sharpness using AVIA, Video Essentials or even the THX calibration menu option which is found in some discs (like Titanic and Moulin Rouge).

For the white balance, you need a professional spectrometer with matching software (which may cost $4000) and a trained technician. In other words, you need to hire a professional to do that. That may cost you 10k. For most people, therefore, the AVIA or Video Essentials adjustments are fine.

Good luck!

barrister · « **Reply #84 on:** Apr 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM »

Quote from: antikryst on Apr 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

noticed that when i increase the brightness... the blacks become grey. i tried offsetting this by lowering the contrast down a bit but i still get grey and not black. im trying to find the brightest picture for dark scenes to show more detail without messing up the blacks.

Try adjustiing with the help of a calibration disc.

If you're still not satisfied with black levels, then you have probably reached the limit of your TV's capability. Decreasing the brightness produces black crush (loss of black level details), but increasing brightness produces gray black levels.

Try increasing ambient light in the room. You might also want to test Blu-ray sources.

streetsmart · « **Reply #85 on:** Apr 16, 2008 at 12:51 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Apr 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Try adjustiing with the help of a calibration disc.

If you're still not satisfied with black levels, then you have probably reached the limit of your TV's capability. Decreasing the brightness produces black crush (loss of black level details), but increasing brightness produces gray black levels.

Actually, if you can adjust the offset and bias of the red, green and blue channels, you can improve contrast ratio. The whites become true whites (not bluish or reddish) and same with the blacks.

It seems like this can be done for the Samsung R81. However, as previously noted, you need a trained technician and some pretty expensive hardware and software.

antikryst · « **Reply #86 on:** Apr 16, 2008 at 01:29 PM »

my xbox 360 settings are pretty good... even with hd dvds played on the xbox add-on.

i also tried using avia for tweaking the contrast and brightness... maybe ill give that another go soon.

thanks for all the feedback.

Flood · « **Reply #87 on:** Apr 20, 2008 at 11:25 PM »

I'm new to all this calibration thing and my question is how then do you compensate for the irregularities in the graphs? For example in the RGB graph what setting should you adjust if let's say the Red is oversaturated, same goes for Gamma, color temp and etc. Or does this simply mean that opening up the service menu is mandatory for calibrating TVs. I'v just recently purchased a Spyder 2 Express and I'm still dumbfounded about the whole thing. Right now my TV has a PC mode and that's the setting that I want to calibrate and I'm a little worried since I don't see any tint or gamma adjustments in the settings menu and I don't want to risk voiding my warranty for tampering with the service menu.

pangke · « **Reply #88 on:** Apr 21, 2008 at 03:38 PM »

help po mga master...
can't seem to find my taste sa pana 32lx77 ko. di na kaya nung normal settings e (brightness, contrast, color, sharpness etc...)
ano po ba dapat ko gawin? di ko ramdam yung pagiging HD nung tv ko e..pls help. main purpose is for playing ps3 and watching movies...
baka po pwede request..pa-post po ng mga settings niyo for the pana 32lx77...at least kahit na magkaiba tayo ng taste e may simula na ko...pls mga master...

pangke · « **Reply #89 on:** Apr 21, 2008 at 03:59 PM »

sir san po kayo nakakuha ng mga program na pang-calibrate...di ko kasi maramdaman yung pagka-HD nung pana 32lx77 na binili ko e. di ko naman madala ulit sa sights and sounds since malayo pa ko...laguna pa po kasi ako. pls help mga sir...yung po ba avia na program lang kelangan ko? then user friendly ba yun? hoping for your quick and informative replies mga master..thanks!!!