Topic: Denon A/V Receivers

[ninjababez®]

There are times when your room is the culprit. Even though how much you tweak your subwoofer settings, it just wouldn't sound the same as with stores or other people's setups.

I've tried putting my home theater setup in 4 different rooms and it only sounded great in two of them. Bass was almost non-existent in the other two rooms.

WOW!! i never thought that the location's factor would be as big as that!   

[streetsmart]

Sir Streetsmart,

Thanks for this valuable info ... i recently purchased a SVS PB10NSD subwoofer to complement my 5.0 setup on a Denon 1909 AVR, i would like to ask for pointers in setting up the subwoofer to get the most of it...by the way, the PB10NSD does not have a cross-over amp - only the phase and gain are adjustable, everything else would be set on the AVR ...i'm using Dali Concept 6 floorstanders for my fronts.

Reason i'm asking is that I used to own a Velodyne VX10 ... it sounded great for my setup then, but everytime I hear the same model on stores or other owners setup, they seem to be getting the best of it ...their bass are sounding a lot better even with low-end or smaller speakers complementing the sub compared to my system ... i'm just worried that I still would not be able to optimize my setup even with a better subwoofer without an expert advice.

I'm planning to use the Audyssey auto setup, but I read that that is not enough to optimize the subwoofer performance.

Thanks in advance sir.

Just saw this post after answering the same question sent via PM and not saving my answer. 

Anyhow, I don't think there's any big secret about this. If you have Audyssey, just follow the set-up guide at AVS Forum and 80% of the job is done. It's that good.

The remaining 20% is sub placement and there's a lot of articles in the web about this. Finally, you have acoustic treatment - broadband absorbers and bass traps. There are threads at pinvoydvd about this. You can DIY it easily.

In my experience, there are very few stores which set up their subs properly. Nearly all of them have the subs too loud and with improper eq. And I have heard very few set-ups of members which have impressive bass set-ups (probably the best I've heard is that of Alvinthx and he has tons of experience + equipment).

In order to know if your sub is well set-up, you need to listen to deep bass music. Music ... because we know what it's supposed to sound like. Not explosions because you don't really know what that sounds like unless sundalo ka.

At Landmark, I just saw a copy of the dvd of Cream at Royal Albert Hall. Track 12 has a fantastic sequence of the bass guitar going up note by note for more than an octave. This happens twice, starting at 62:45. If you can hear each note distinctly and they sound equal in volume + the bass sounds tight (you hear the note and then it dies quickly, the sound energy doesn't linger in the room), your bass should be pretty good. That dvd also has a lot of parts where Jack Bruce (bass guitarist) does all sorts of tricks with his guitar (sliding, vibrating, etc.). If the bass set-up is good, you should be able to hear all those tricks. If bass in music sound good, you can be sure that bass in movies will sound great!

Good luck!

[ninjababez®]

hi guys,
i have a few questions regarding the following: (forgive my 6 pack on the photos) 







what are these settings for?
im not using a sub for now but planning to add by sept.  where should i set these at, when i have a sub and when i dont have a sub?

many thanks  ^_^

[raptor]

Sir Streetsmart,

Thanks a lot for the feedback and the DVD recommendation.

Just saw this post after answering the same question sent via PM and not saving my answer. 

Anyhow, I don't think there's any big secret about this. If you have Audyssey, just follow the set-up guide at AVS Forum and 80% of the job is done. It's that good.

The remaining 20% is sub placement and there's a lot of articles in the web about this. Finally, you have acoustic treatment - broadband absorbers and bass traps. There are threads at pinvoydvd about this. You can DIY it easily.

In my experience, there are very few stores which set up their subs properly. Nearly all of them have the subs too loud and with improper eq. And I have heard very few set-ups of members which have impressive bass set-ups (probably the best I've heard is that of Alvinthx and he has tons of experience + equipment).

In order to know if your sub is well set-up, you need to listen to deep bass music. Music ... because we know what it's supposed to sound like. Not explosions because you don't really know what that sounds like unless sundalo ka.

At Landmark, I just saw a copy of the dvd of Cream at Royal Albert Hall. Track 12 has a fantastic sequence of the bass guitar going up note by note for more than an octave. This happens twice, starting at 62:45. If you can hear each note distinctly and they sound equal in volume + the bass sounds tight (you hear the note and then it dies quickly, the sound energy doesn't linger in the room), your bass should be pretty good. That dvd also has a lot of parts where Jack Bruce (bass guitarist) does all sorts of tricks with his guitar (sliding, vibrating, etc.). If the bass set-up is good, you should be able to hear all those tricks. If bass in music sound good, you can be sure that bass in movies will sound great!

Good luck!

[streetsmart]

hi guys,
i have a few questions regarding the following: (forgive my 6 pack on the photos) 
what are these settings for?
im not using a sub for now but planning to add by sept.  where should i set these at, when i have a sub and when i dont have a sub?

many thanks  ^_^

Hard to say unless you say exactly how you got to those screens. You need to tell us what the menu options were which made you reach those screens.

It would also be helpful if you tell us what is the model of your Denon.

[ninjababez®]

Hard to say unless you say exactly how you got to those screens. You need to tell us what the menu options were which made you reach those screens.It would also be helpful if you tell us what is the model of your Denon.

thanks for the quick reply bro mark
btw i got those option by accessing "system"



1. Sp (speaker)
  --->12. Cr. Over 120Hz
2. In (input)
 ---> 9. EXT.  In SW
3. op (option )
  ---> 2.  P. On  : Last

many thanks 

[streetsmart]

thanks for the quick reply bro mark
btw i got those option by accessing "system"

1. Sp (speaker)
  --->12. Cr. Over 120Hz
2. In (input)
 ---> 9. EXT.  In SW
3. op (option )
  ---> 2.  P. On  : Last

many thanks 

What's the model of your Denon AVR?

[threadlock]

thanks for the quick reply bro mark
btw i got those option by accessing "system"



Your AVR settings menu seems to be similar to mine. My AVR is Denon 1507, so I'll try to help you out.

1. Sp (speaker)
  --->12. Cr. Over 120Hz
All frequencies above this cross-over point will be routed to your speakers, while all frequencies below this cross-over point will be routed to your subwoofer, if you have set all the speakers to "Small". if you have set your speakers to "Large", all frequencies will be routed to your speakers, and depending if you have set you Subwoofer setting(SW) to "On" or "Off" your subwoofer will be low-passed at this frequency and will cause some overlaps in some bass frequencies with your speakers.
It is best to set this Cross-over point to 80Hz or 100Hz as recommended by THX and set your speakers to "Small", if you have a subwoofer. As usual, tinker with these settings and let your ears decide. 
Gurus, correct me if im wrong. thanks.


2. In (input)
 ---> 9. EXT.  In SW
When using the 7.1 channels External Input, this is the volume adjustment for the subwoofer. Setting it to "SW+5" means the subwoofer level will be 5dB higher than the rest of the channels.

3. op (option )
  ---> 2.  P. On  : Last

This is the volume setting when the AVR is turned on. Setting it to "Last" means the current volume will be set to the last volume setting stored previously, or before the AVR was turned off.

many thanks 

[ninjababez®]

threadlock thanks for the quick reply bro  ^_^
btw i never thought that this receiver is capable of 7.1 

where should i put the "side surround"

ill test your answer on number 3. later 
since i don't have a sub yet for testing your answer's to 1 and 2   

btw what sub and sats are you using? 

[streetsmart]

1. Sp (speaker)
  --->12. Cr. Over 120Hz
2. In (input)
 ---> 9. EXT.  In SW
3. op (option )
  ---> 2.  P. On  : Last

Ok mga sagot ni threadlock. Just some clarifications:

1. If this is the crossover frequency, once you have a sub, set it to 80 hz or 100 hz (experiment ka lang). Set the sub to LFE only, not LFE+Main and set all speakers to Small.

2. This option exists because there is supposed to be a 10db boost for the LFE channel of DVD's and this is usually done automatically when you use the digital inputs of the AVR. When you use the analog input, depending on the DVD player and the AVR, there is sometimes a wrong setting so the level of the LFE channel can be off, in which case you need to adjust this setting.

The problem with using the analog inputs is that you forego the digital processing in the AVR, particularly Audyssey. Therefore, its a pretty bad idea to use the analog inputs!

3. No additional comments sa sinabi ni threadlock.

[threadlock]

threadlock thanks for the quick reply bro  ^_^
btw i never thought that this receiver is capable of 7.1  

where should i put the "side surround"

ill test your answer on number 3. later  
since i don't have a sub yet for testing your answer's to 1 and 2  

btw what sub and sats are you using?  

Currently my setup is still in chaos, and the LCR speakers are mismatched. Currently using MA RS1 for fronts, Yamaha NS-C444 for center and Yamaha NS-333 for surrounds. I have two subs-- One DIY dual Elemental Designs 13Av 7.25 cubic feet for HT use and one DIY dual opposed Infinity Kappa sealed for music use. But im not using the dual 13Av anymore, I  banned its use temporarily until I have installed good soundproofing because my 3 neighbors is already complaining. Because while I enjoy the low bass inside my home, my neighbors is wondering if it is already the end of the world. , just kidding, but I think it just rocks them well over to the point it becomes annoying to their ears(and body).  

You will only have side surrounds if you will be setting a 7.1 setup. In this case you will have a side surrounds and back surrounds. Typical 7.1 setup as recommended by Dolby is like this:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/speaker-setup-guide/select-config-7-1.html

But usually 7.1 setup is not really used by most forum enthusiasts as only very few titles is actually encoded with 7.1 channels audio. Most audios in movies are still just having 5.1 audio, even most Bluray titles. You can only take advantage of 7.1 if a movie title has 7.1 audio or your receiver is capable of "matrixing" the audio going to the surround speakers via an AVR processing like using the "Dolby Digitial PLIIx" mode which takes the 5.1 audio and processes it to make it 7.1 audio.  But I maybe wrong, this is only my understanding about it.

[ninjababez®]

@threadlock
that's one of the reasons why i had 2nd thoughts in getting a DIY subs, plus the music playback.
im planning to use all polk audio for my speakers (including subs) so in a way paired sila for both audio and movie  

Ok mga sagot ni threadlock. Just some clarifications:

1. If this is the crossover frequency, once you have a sub, set it to 80 hz or 100 hz (experiment ka lang). Set the sub to LFE only, not LFE+Main and set all speakers to Small.

2. This option exists because there is supposed to be a 10db boost for the LFE channel of DVD's and this is usually done automatically when you use the digital inputs of the AVR. When you use the analog input, depending on the DVD player and the AVR, there is sometimes a wrong setting so the level of the LFE channel can be off, in which case you need to adjust this setting.

The problem with using the analog inputs is that you forego the digital processing in the AVR, particularly Audyssey. Therefore, its a pretty bad idea to use the analog inputs!

thanks mark  
btw follow up q's  
1.  if i don't have a sub installed, does this mean i can't see this option?  "LFE only and LFE+Main"
2.  i'm using digital thru coax, so i'll just leave it at 0 db or default?

btw  i don't know if you noticed this but remember our subwoofer EB last May?
i remembered  the DIY subs not able to perform well during the unplugged music videos.

[streetsmart]

btw follow up q's  
1.  if i don't have a sub installed, does this mean i can't see this option?  "LFE only and LFE+Main"
2.  i'm using digital thru coax, so i'll just leave it at 0 db or default?

btw  i don't know if you noticed this but remember our subwoofer EB last May?
i remembered  the DIY subs not able to perform well during the unplugged music videos.

1. If you don't have a sub, you shouldn't be able to have this option. Those options apply only for the sub.

2. If you use a digital connection, that setting does not apply. It is relevant only if you use the analog inputs (which I don't recommend). Leave it at default.

DIY subs can perform quite well. I think that the main issue during that EB was that the volume of the DIY subs was not properly calibrated so they were pretty loud and tended to drown out the higher frequencies. When you have bullets and explosions, you won't notice it that much but it is noticeable with music.

The other point is that there is a big difference in sound between ported and sealed subs. In my experience, sealed subs are better at reproducing music while ported subs can go deeper and louder. The DIY subs you heard were ported.

[ninjababez®]

1. If you don't have a sub, you shouldn't be able to have this option. Those options apply only for the sub.

2. If you use a digital connection, that setting does not apply. It is relevant only if you use the analog inputs (which I don't recommend). Leave it at default.

DIY subs can perform quite well. I think that the main issue during that EB was that the volume of the DIY subs was not properly calibrated so they were pretty loud and tended to drown out the higher frequencies. When you have bullets and explosions, you won't notice it that much but it is noticeable with music.

The other point is that there is a big difference in sound between ported and sealed subs. In my experience, sealed subs are better at reproducing music while ported subs can go deeper and louder. The DIY subs you heard were ported.

thanks again bro
ill keep you guys posted, when i get my sub .

[regulus]

Hi Sirs medyo OT lang...
have a problem with my 1705 the power button is blinking and when i turn it on it shut down after 5  seconds... help sana with my problem

[mike c]

Hi Sirs medyo OT lang...
have a problem with my 1705 the power button is blinking and when i turn it on it shut down after 5  seconds... help sana with my problem

last chance before sending it in for checkup:

remove all connections, interconnects and speaker wires.

try to start your receiver.  most of the time it's speaker wires touching each other.

[regulus]

Thanks Sir Mike will try that tonight

[ninjababez®]

last chance before sending it in for checkup:
remove all connections, interconnects and speaker wires.
try to start your receiver.  most of the time it's speaker wires touching each other.

is this a safety feature of the receiver? 

[mike c]

is this a safety feature of the receiver? 

yes, most of the time the receiver displays the word "protect" before shutting down.

[streetsmart]

last chance before sending it in for checkup:

remove all connections, interconnects and speaker wires.

try to start your receiver.  most of the time it's speaker wires touching each other.

Mukhang may direct experience ka nito. 

[mike c]

Mukhang may direct experience ka nito. 

yes, that's why i praise the day and the inventor of the greatest invention in AV ever ... banana plugs.   

[streetsmart]

yes, that's why i praise the day and the inventor of the greatest invention in AV ever ... banana plugs.   

Even better -- twin banana plugs. Banana plugs na d twin can short. I know ... 2 times na putok ang fuse ng amp ko. 

[ninjababez®]

Even better -- twin banana plugs. Banana plugs na d twin can short. I know ... 2 times na putok ang fuse ng amp ko. 

problema bro they dont have a standard 

[streetsmart]

problema bro they dont have a standard 

There seems to be a standard buy some speakers and AVR's don't follow the standard. In that case, that's the end of you. 

[raptor]

I'm planning to setup/calibrate the new PB10NSD subwoorfer that I acquired this Friday (holiday) ... I initially connected it last night on my 1909 AVR, I just observed the following issue - the subwoofer intermittently detects signal from the amplifier and sometimes does not work.

I was using the media files (audio mp3 and mkv videos) from my TVIX NMT, there's no issue with MP3's, subwoofer was working fine ... on mkv video however, sometimes the subwoofer does not work - since the power switch was set to auto ON, i've noted that the sub does not turn on when playing some of the movie files .... to isolate the issue, i tried using my dvd and an original Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD concert - with the switch set to auto-ON and initially at OFF state, the subwoofer did not turn ON when I played the video (Hotel California); I then tried setting the power swith to always ON, but there was still no response from the subwoofer.

To confirm that the subwoofer is working, I switched back to the MP3 files - it was working well.  Please advise if there are settings that I may have missed.  This also frequently happened to me on my old Velodyne VX10 and Onkyo 501 AVR - back then, I thought that either my AVR or subwoofer was already malfunctioning, but after experiencing the same thing on a new subwoofer and less than a year-old AVR, I guess there's something wrong with my setup.

For the physical setup, I guess the connections were right - there's only one RCA port to connect to the PB10NSD and there's only one subwoofer pre-out on the 1909 ...on the configuration, I only modified the following - set all speakers to small, change LFE+Main to LFE, change crossover frequency to 80Hz, and set subwoofer to YES.  I haven't had the time to thinker with the input setup, Audyssey, annd others as I started quite late, and cannot comment on the PB10NSD performance yet as it was quite late and I do not want to bother my neighbors.

Hope you can give some advice on the other setup parameters that I need to modify.

Thanks in advance

 

[mike c]

sir raptor,

would you mind checking the channel levels of your receiver?  i.e. Left, Center, Right, Subwoofer, etc. (they should be as close to 0db as possible) sometimes audyssey will set the subwoofer channel to -12db when it considers the subwoofer to be too loud.

and is it also possible that each audio input level for each of the sources on your denon receiver had been set differently?

please call 7104673  if you want to try troubleshoot on the phone. (or email [email protected])

also whe you said that hotel california did not turn on the sub (whether on auto on or just on) was there a red led light on?  it didn't change to yellow when it detected the signal (or when bass frequencies came in)

[streetsmart]

It seems to me that for some sources, the AVR is not set-up to send signals to the subwoofer. You can see this in the right side of the Denon, where it shows the speakers to which it is sending a signal. The light for the sub should be on. On the left side of the Denon, it shows the channels which are receiving a signal.

The sub could switch off, for example, if your input is stereo and the Denon is set-up to output only to the 2 front channels when there is a stereo signal.

[disturbed]

sir check the output of the receiver when you played the eagles concert..baka stereo output lang..and na setup nyo sa denon nyo eh fronts lang mag lalabas pag stereo..

baka nasa setup sir ng avr..double check na lang

[avshop]

What's your subwoofer level? It might be set too low for your sub to detect it. Hope you resolve it soon.

anyone interested in a brand new silver Denon 1909. Last unit. Discounted price.

[ninjababez®]

There seems to be a standard buy some speakers and AVR's don't follow the standard. In that case, that's the end of you.  

nalito ako bro