Topic: Denon A/V Receivers

[keypool]

Ano ba center speaker mo dyerds?

[RXV]

@dyerds

Sir, may pagkamahina nga ang Denon 1907 center sound. Bakit kaya? What I did was to increase the db in the volume adjustment for center. Yun lang nagawa ko.

Guys,

What is the usual volume setting (db) that you use when watching movies? Ako kasi usually -10 db na e. Anything lower than that medyo mahina na (walang dating) when it comes to action movies as well as dialogues. Ganun ba talaga? I use a Wharf 9CS as center. Kapag DTS signal, about -12 db to -15 db ok na.
And I thought that -20db was already overkill.. kulang pa pala

[keypool]

When I watch DVD movies, usually between -15 to -5 db ang range ko.  OK lang naman ito. Max ng Denon 1907 is +18 DB, so marami ka pang extra volume power.

@dyerds,

as RXV has said, you could increase the center speaker volume sa amp mo. 



 

[dyerds]

Ganun na nga po ang ginagawa ko ngayon. I also set my player (DV600) dialogue to low or medium. Do you think mic calibration will do the trick?

When I watch DVD movies, usually between -15 to -5 db ang range ko.  OK lang naman ito. Max ng Denon 1907 is +18 DB, so marami ka pang extra volume power.

The problem with this sir is eventhough lakasan mo yung volume natatabunan pa rin sya ng fronts kaya you should really adjust your center.






 

[RXV]

Ganun na nga po ang ginagawa ko ngayon. I also set my player (DV600) dialogue to low or medium. Do you think mic calibration will do the trick?

Sir, in-auto caliberate ko rin yun, pero inadjust ko rin after based on my preference. 

I also set my Pioneer dialogue to medium to compensate for the lack of dialogue volume.

[blackie]

Funny you guys have mentioned your challeneges with the center speaker.  I am experiencing the opposite, I  find the center speaker amp match sometimes a little too loud.  I thought it could have been my speaker  or a setting, that was the probelm.  A friend who has  a different Denon Model and a much more expensive speaker experienced the same thing when we played the exact same disc.  I believe it was the opening to Hotel California in the Hell Freezes Concert DVD. Excuse the term, but I found the Center Speaker making "piyok" for lack of a better term to call it, when one of the instruments was playing.

Well I'm glad you guys brought it up again, so we can compare and share the experiences we have on our own individual setups.

Peace

Blackie

[blackie]

By the Way, those pieces of Equipment Posted by Matzter on page 28, ROCK!!!!!!!

[MAtZTER]

For speaker configuration, why don't you try setting the FRONT speaker to "LARGE" and Subwoofer mode  to LFE+Main. 

Then try to play your discs and see if you like it better.  I think kasi that FRONTs should always be set to "LARGE" to get better sound from your floorstanders. 

Setting fronts to large lets your LFE's go to your floorstanders. This is more taxing to your receiver since LFE's need lots more power. Thats why subwoofers are usually 100+w. Setting them to small passes this burden from your receiver to the subwoofer, giving your receiver more room to breathe. that translates to better HF & mid range details for your speakers. So unless you are using power amps or flagship level receivers with lots of power to spare, small is still the best recommended setting.

Thats why professional custom installed HT's in home theater magazines only use bookshelf size speakers or in-walls for HT (but 2-3 subs), since thay will be set to small anyway.

[eksi]

@ blackie and keypool

I auditioned different settings:
front sp configuration: large vs. small
subwoofer set-up: lfe vs main+lfe

Mas happy ako with this combination (thanks sa reco):
front sp configuration: large
subwoofer set-up: main+lfe

By the way, i still have unanswered question before re DTS mix: stereo vs. Lt/rt (setting in DVD players particularly DV-400)... hope to get feedback of the difference between the two.  I already auditioned it, pero di ko madistinguish while playing a movie DVD.

[blackie]

Hi Eksi!

Sorry do not have upsclaing DVD player yet:(  Next on the agenda.  Maybe ask for feedback from those who have the DV 400? 

Cheers!

[eksi]

@ matzter

thanks for the info... i will return back to my previous setting (i.e. all speakers set to small)... i don't want my Denon burden to much task... anyway i'm happy with it naman before...

ganun siguro talaga... may mga pros and cons and different settings... its up to us users kung ano ang isa-sacrifice... hehehe

follow up question lang po... if speakers are set to small... which subwoofer set-up is the most preferrable, LFE (normal) or main+LFE?

as i understand from the manual, in LFE - all the low frequency from speakers set to small will be diverted to the subwoofer, while in main+LFE - all low frequency from speakers set to large speakers will be played in subwoofer too, therefore, there will be no difference at all between these two setting when all the speakers will be set to small. your comments po....

[RXV]

Hi Eksi!

Sorry do not have upsclaing DVD player yet:(  Next on the agenda.  Maybe ask for feedback from those who have the DV 400? 

Cheers!

I'm currently using a DV-400 and I am very satisfied with it. I use 1080p connected to my Panasonic 42PV7 when watching DVDs.
So far so good. PQ and SQ is superb.

[keypool]

@ matzter

thanks for the info... i will return back to my previous setting (i.e. all speakers set to small)... i don't want my Denon burden to much task... anyway i'm happy with it naman before...

ganun siguro talaga... may mga pros and cons and different settings... its up to us users kung ano ang isa-sacrifice... hehehe

follow up question lang po... if speakers are set to small... which subwoofer set-up is the most preferrable, LFE (normal) or main+LFE?

as i understand from the manual, in LFE - all the low frequency from speakers set to small will be diverted to the subwoofer, while in main+LFE - all low frequency from speakers set to large speakers will be played in subwoofer too, therefore, there will be no difference at all between these two setting when all the speakers will be set to small. your comments po....

Guguluhin lang kita ulit:   

Actually, kaya naman ng Denon 1907 even if the fronts are set to large.  The advantage of setting to fronts to large is that generally, the bass is more musical sa mga front speakers, instead of kung sa subwoofer lalabas.  Minsan kasi, yung mga subwoofer, medyo muddy na ang tunog ng bass.   But if you have a good subwoofer, then this might not be an issue for you.   

So, if you watch a lot of concert/musical DVDs, i would still prefer to set the fronts to LARGE and sub to MAIN+LFE. Pero if panay action movies with lots of explosions, pwede na rin siguro nga iyung fronts are SMALL and let the subwoofer do all the LFE. 

Just my opinion. 

[doughn]

i have an old-timer Denon 3802 but made in Japan.. hehehe(5yrs na ata, but still powerful pa rin) wla pa syang auto-calibration , so i did ther calibration myself with the use of my Sound&Vision set-up disc and radioshack analog spl meter. 

my speaker settings is Fronts is pure effects cut-off 100hz, coz i dont want to destroy my front speakers (NHT Largr Bookshelf Speakers Model 1.5) when playing heavy bass movies specially DTS-encoded.

All the LFE signal goes directly to my 4yr old Velodyne spl1200 (750rms power) .the spl1200 bass is tight and controlled (not boomy ) so maganda din sa audio

Denon is great in movies -- very dynamic, good in music . IMHO

just wanna share

[eksi]

i believe my aiwa subwoofer is a very good subwoofer.... that's why i'm more inclined in setting front and other speakers to small.... and let my subwoofer do the LFE work....

hope could get advice which is the best between LFE vs. main+LFE for said speaker set-up (config)

[Grimlock]

HI guys, 1907 user here, I don't experienced the weak center volume. I am using Monitor Audio BRLCR. I just toe-in the center towards my sitting area since the center speakers are located on top of my TV. Just left the DB setting of all speakers to 0db. Calibrated my HT using DVE and Cheskey HT calibration disc. When watching movies, I let the rcvr select the audio but I prefer DTS if available. My volume level is at  -17dB for DTS and -20db for DD movies. I use 5Ch stereo when listening to CDs or radio. Very satisfied 

[RXV]

Hi sir, good for you that you don't have this issue. I don't know why it is an issue for me (maybe it's because of my Wharf 9CS not perfectly matching the 1907). The mids in the center don't come out perfectly as I want it to. Although I'm still satisfied with the Wharfs. Maybe it's just not a prefect match with the Denon.

Although the Denon is excellent both in movies and audio.

[MAtZTER]

Back when I didnt have a separate setup for HT & audio, I set my FS to large but only for 2 channel audio listening. For HT I use the small setting since the receiver power is being divided to 7 channels. Full clarity is very important for me in HT, not just bass.

Based on an article I read in a HT magazine measuring Denon entry levels up to the flagship models, it shows measured data w/ Denon entry levels choking (distorting) at the surrounds & a bit on the center during heavy scenes. Higher models & flagship models have constant power through all channels. This why I believe its best to use small setting for HT, specially if you arent using their high models.

Later on, I was using Rotel power amps & I even bi-amped my FS later. I still used the same setting. Actually, I discovered that with enough power you can attain that FS "UMPH!" impact you want even if the setting for your speaker is small. With my bi-amped setup (2 years ago, Mission M5 FS), you can actually feel the midrange hitting your skin, and its not the sub at all! at small speaker setting!

More power! 

[allan1836]

I truly agree with the observation of MAtZTER.  From my experience, I was using  a entry/middle level rcvr from Yamaha (RXV-995) before with Deftech bookshelf front speakers and deftech center. As is, it's doing it's job well enough but once I added a 2ch power amp for my FS then let the Yammy power up the center and surround, I immediately notice a dramatic improvement in dynamics and clarity in all channels!! 
Putting a larger speaker for your fronts and setting it to large will only burden your receiver more. It will play definitely but you will not be maximizing the potentials of your speakers.
Also, for h/t, the best set-up to attain best dynamics and clear, low bass  is setting all speakers to small and let the sub do the .1 bass sounds (assuming your sub can handle it). 
Just sharing ... 
   

[MAtZTER]

My sharing... and its just my fresh discovery this week.

I have a Denon 1705 & a JBL satellite speaker system in my bedroom. Even if I crank it up (0db), it just cant fill my room (w/c is bigger than my main HT room) with sound & gets distorted already at some point. All the while I thought it was because of the size limitation of the speakers.

During the past few days (holidays), I had the time to test a sample 5 x100w @ 4ohm (all channels driven) integrated power amp, using the 5.1  analog outs of my Pioneer DV-600 as decoder. The SQ was a mile ahead and my room was so filled with (undistorted) sound! Some things are beyond subjectivity and this is one of those. the difference was way too obvious.

Well, didnt even take me 10 mins to decide w/c amp says goodbye to my room Its now packed & being sold at another website  .

Anyway, the most important lesson I learned is the room filling property of a setup does not depend on the size of the speaker, its in the quality & power of the amp!!! And having just changed from my entry level receiver & hearing the difference, I guess I can safely agree to the article I read about entry levels choking on the surrounds (compromising the room-filling property).

Just sharing my discovery... no BS

[allan1836]

Medyo OT lang po, sir Mat, pwede bang malaman itong 5ch integrated amp na nadiscover nyo??!  Entry level price din ba??!    Tnx

[keypool]

I have a Denon 1705 & a JBL satellite speaker system in my bedroom. Even if I crank it up (0db), it just cant fill my room (w/c is bigger than my main HT room) with sound & gets distorted already at some point. All the while I thought it was because of the size limitation of the speakers.

During the past few days (holidays), I had the time to test a sample 5 x100w @ 4ohm (all channels driven) integrated power amp, using the 5.1  analog outs of my Pioneer DV-600 as decoder. The SQ was a mile ahead and my room was so filled with (undistorted) sound! Some things are beyond subjectivity and this is one of those. the difference was way too obvious.

Hi Matzer,

The amp you used is 5x100w @ 4ohms --- hindi ba that is only around 5x75w @6-8 ohms?  So that should roughly just be the same capacity as your Denon 1705 na 5x75w @8 ohms so it should just be the same power? 

Also, the 1907 we are using is more powerful than the 1705.  It is rated at 5x85w at 8 ohms or roughly 170w @ 4 ohms.

[alvinthx2]

I never use the LARGE and LFE+Main option in the speaker configuration menu during my Denon days. Actually I never use it with whatever Pre/pro,receiver I owned.

[trackers888]

Still busy tweaking my AVR2808, sa dami ng pwedeng gawin sa AVR, nalilito na ako minsan

[keema]

mga sirs question lang...bumili kse yung kaibigan ko ng 1707 na denon...
may kasama syang ipod dock pero onkyo yung brand. pwede namang e-kabit kse ang input nya is rca naman. question ko lang po is pwede bang ma-control yun gamit yung remote control? like select ka ng music..

second question...diba ang bago ngayon is yung 2808..anong difference nya dun sa luma nyang model?

thanks..

[Lancito]

Still busy tweaking my AVR2808, sa dami ng pwedeng gawin sa AVR, nalilito na ako minsan

I also got myself the AVR2808 last Christmas.  I still can't figure out how to maximize the unit because of too many functions.  I came from an Onkyo TXSV838..  One of the first Dolby Digital receivers around 15 years old. hehehe. 

Trackers888, once na-master mo na baka puwede magpa tutor sayo ng lahat ng functions.  Thanks.

[MAtZTER]

Hi Matzer,

The amp you used is 5x100w @ 4ohms --- hindi ba that is only around 5x75w @6-8 ohms?  So that should roughly just be the same capacity as your Denon 1705 na 5x75w @8 ohms so it should just be the same power? 

Also, the 1907 we are using is more powerful than the 1705.  It is rated at 5x85w at 8 ohms or roughly 170w @ 4 ohms.

I have used 5 entry level receivers and I am very sure 10-20w dont really make a difference. I only heard the difference with the improved quality power supplies of mid level receivers.

And if you look at HT buyer's guide magazines, there are no 4ohm specs (continuous) for receivers, only power amps. The amp I used is actually rated only at 60w @ 8ohms, but all channels driven at the same time. Thats a different way of measuring.  a 60+k Denon 3805 was measured in the same way gives only 70wpc. Entry levels are somewhere in the range of 30-35w only.

The power of a power amp is not = to the power of a receiver. even more when performance is the topic, unless we are talking about flagship AVR's. Case in point: my THX receiver rated at 130w x 7 couldnt beat the performance of my 100w x 5 THX power amp.

 Anyway, I was just sharing my experience & realization about satelite speakers up there.

[threadlock]

there are no 4ohm specs (continuous) for receivers, only power amps.

that is very true especially for Denon receivers, if I can still remember, there is a warning in the Denon manual that states that 4 Ohm speakers are not allowed, also there is a label at the back of the receiver saying to connect speakers of 6-12 Ohms only, unless you really want to burn your receivers, connecting speakers with 4 Ohm load is a definite risk. Better to use poweramps as suggested by sir matz as it can handle 4 Ohm loads with ease.

Just sharing my thoughts.. 

[streetsmart]

I thought I could chime in as well. Many years ago, I was looking at a top-of-the-line Thiel speaker. Almost 6 feet high siguro. I wanted to drive them with my Aragon 8008BB power amp which is rated at 200wpc but can actually go much higher. This amp weighs 80 pounds and is built like 2 monoblocks.

Kaibigan ko ang vendor and he gave me a serious warning kasi raw that speaker is 2 ohms (!). Ang dami na raw power amp na sinabog nya! Sabi nya di raw kaya ng amp ko.

4 ohm speakers are hard to drive. 2 ohm speakers are very hard to drive.

[trackers888]

I also got myself the AVR2808 last Christmas.  I still can't figure out how to maximize the unit because of too many functions.  I came from an Onkyo TXSV838..  One of the first Dolby Digital receivers around 15 years old. hehehe. 

Trackers888, once na-master mo na baka puwede magpa tutor sayo ng lahat ng functions.  Thanks.

Nakow?! hehehe matatagalan pa siguro Sir!
Better ask master Streetsmart and Munskie, they have the same brand like ours, AVR 2808 and AVR 3808 respectively Para silang biologist na kayang mag dissect and explain ang function ng Denon