Topic: Need HELP in renovating my HT

[frootloops]

I'm not sure if I am making a stupid question, but is there any standard color for a HT dedicated room? You might have a good idea in mind, please do share.

Is there any particular paint to use? I live in an old house, built in the 60's, so my wall is made of jackbuilt! I wanted to copy one of the members HT wherein he used foams wrapped in drape for the walls, but you will need a jackhammer to make a hole in this wall, so "masilya" lang. Is there any thing that I can put on the sides but on an easier way?  My room is 6x9 meters. ( used to be a garage for single SUV/Car) Browsed at HT gallery, and I cant seem to find any similar room to mine.

Any concept in mind is very much welcome.  TIA!! 

[ricky]

bro you can use any color that you fancy since its your room, but i can suggest NOT to use light colored paints kasi yung reflection (if you will be using PJ) is quite distracting. any color will do as long as its in the dark side (not evil side ha )

As for the walls, those jackbuilts hollowblocks are really tough(my grand dad only specifies that brand), but you can still drill thru them using a hammer drill (not jackhammer) starting with the smallest drill bit and increasing the size until you achieve the desired hole (presumably to screw the panels).But if drilling holes is not your thing then you can just use rubber cement (like rugby) to attach the fiberwools to the walls Or another option is to use the framing technique (diff from the snake and monkey from kung-fu movies ) were you will fasten the panels on both ends(ceiling and flooring) and just use the adhesive sa middle portion. Hope i was able to help you than confused you

[MAtZTER]

If you have the budget, and since your room is big, you can just cover the whole wall with wood veneers and acoustic treatments. It would shave off only about 3-6 inches on each side. This way you wont have much problems in boring holes in the wall. TAPALAN mo na lang yung walls.

Examples:

[ricky]

yan yung framing technique na sinasabi ko

[MAtZTER]

Hmm, 6x9m na room. Kelangan nyan ng very powerful amps and floorstanders.

Malaking gastos to ah.

[av_phile1]

Some tips on lighing and painting your HT rooms in Controlling the Lighting section here might help:

http://www.htexplained.com/abridged/Chap%208.htm

[frootloops]

Wow! The Guru's and the Legend are here to help me...what more can I ask for..

Sir MAtZTER,

Hmm, 6x9m na room. Kelangan nyan ng very powerful amps and floorstanders.

My room size is similar to the first picture, but just a little wider and a bit longer, Im not sure if 6x9 is correct, my aplogies, I am poor with numbers. But yes, if I can have a very powerful amps and floorstanders, why not? 

It would shave off only about 3-6 inches on each side.

I don't want to lose a single inch of space in my room, "sayang kasi Sir", what's on-going now is the smoothening of the walls and have it painted instead, and consider Sir Ricky's advise,

attach the fiberwools to the walls

, position it inbetween (left/right) the gears and the sofas.

Sir av_phile1,

Some tips on lighing and painting your HT rooms in Controlling the Lighting section here might help:

appreciate your help on this, very helpful indeed. My room has a single window, and no Sun. So it is basically a dark room. When we had our house renovated 2yrs ago, the concept was a simple music room, lately, after buying PJ, it became more on the HT, so malaking gastos nga Sir MAtZTER. I dont know what to do with the wires now.

A  medium gray walls, gray softening or getting lighter going to the back,,..with fiberwools in the wall,,.a PJ with 84x84 screen,..newly upholstered leather sofa,..,,speaker upgrade?.........not bad.   

Sir's av_phile1 , MAtZTER , ricky, , Mabuhay po kayong lahat, more power and GOD BLESS!!

[Munskie]

try to have some balance/compromise between function and design.  Function dahil you have to consider acoustics, wire management, non reflective painting, etc  while design of course you want your HT to look good while at the same time blend with the performance of your HT...........ako diko nagawa yung design that I like coz nag DIY ako and dont have much background in interior design....

[ricky]

Sa akin naman more on the design rather than function ang nasunod ayaw ni misus ng macho yung dating nung ht room since its also our living room Good thing kahit papaano nag-improve din yung room accoustics after 32panels of curtains ,area rug and the big la-z-boys yung sound proofing na lang ang problem para hindi always complain yung neighbors

[frootloops]

try to have some balance/compromise between function and design.

Now I'm getting confused.....

I am not sure if I can get what I want in terms of accoustically fixing the room, unless I have that much budget, then go for the kill na ako. I am not also sure if putting fiberwools on the wall will greatly increase the sound quality. Hope it will somehow. Well, wish me luck that I get both of both worlds....

Wire management is my dilemna, since my gears are in front, the wires coming form the PJ and rears are exposed, cannot do anything na since the room is made by the time I got this gears. Btw, what is the best speaker to match Onkyo's? I want good in HT and in music as well, or "better on music, and in HT as well"? I heard that if the speakers are good in music, okay din sa HT? True?

[ricky]

Good for both audio-video speakers? Im sure madami noon pero it would cost a lot of money to acquire I suggest you get separate set-up for audio and video since it would be more practical in the long run(maybe cheaper pa) kasi no compromises in performance

[frootloops]

Noted Sir Ricky, I've been considering this already, I just need advise from the experts para no regrets and you  wont see my gears in the Buy n Sell thread.

Salamat po!

[av_phile1]

When it comes to audio,  Think MULTICHANNEL audio. NOT HT.    Go by the rule:  what is good for Audio is also good for HT.  But not the other way around.    Get an excellent MULTICHANNEL set-up for audio to play SACD and DVD-A well and both HT and stereo music become subsets.  Just turn off the unneeded channels.

And for the size of your room, at 6 x 9 meters,  Unless you have highly sensitive speakers, I must suggest you junk the Onkyo receiver.  No disrespect meant for the brand or your choice, but I have to say even their flagship model NR1000 with 150 watts non-FTC rating  could still be wanting at room filling volumes this big.  You really can't max out home playback gears without ruining them in a short time.    In this hobby, it's better to err on the side of plenty.

Your ears in such a big room will benefit more from power amp separates starting with at least 250watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms.  A Bryston, Aragon, Accurus, Krell, Sunfire, Parasound, Musical Fidelity, Rotel, NAD or HK with around this much power rating should be fine.  Either 5 monoblocks or 3 stereo units would be great.  Then just add another stereo block later if you want to go 7.1 which to me is really immaterial at this time.  A more convinient and space spaving solution would be to get single-box multichannel power amps from Rotel.  Their 5-ch RMB-1095 can only go up to 200 watts RMS but this should be muscular in stereo mode.  But personally, I prefer their stereo models which have better performance specifications.  If you want to go on a one-box solution for all channels, get an Aragon.  Their individual channel specs are identical with their stereo cousins in the same model range.  Going this route, the power amps could set you back by about P400,000 for Brystons and Aragons. The Rotel is relatively cheaper.  And preowned stuff could be a lot cheaper.  

If you want something really cheaper without compromising on quality, don't underestimate professional grade power amplifiers.  That's the only alternative I can suggest, apart from going pre-owed for the known home playback brands I mentioned.  Oh, and yes, you could check out jap surplus amps at the pier, but I don't recall they have separate power amps, just integrateds.  If you can find an Onkyo Integra series power amps, get them.  

And if your Onkyo receiver has multichannel pre-outs, don't follow my adivce to junk them that fast.    You can use the reciever as your preamp/processor and input selector.  Many videophiles on the net use mid-to-flagship receivers as pre/pros due to their excellent DSP and DAC processing qualities that are at par with  many separate pre/pros.    Otherwise, if your Onkyo does not have any pre-outs, then proceed junking them.    In which case, you really will need a seaprate pre/pro.  I would suggest a Rotel RSP-1068 but any of their older models with at least DD and DTS processing should be fine.  Also a Krell KAV series preamp or a Sunfire, but they're more expensive  It is here where you can elect to have separate analog or even tube preamps for music only and another set of preamps/processors for multichannel Audio or HT.  You can also elect to connect the front stereo out of a pre/pro to a tube preamp before connecting to the front  power amps.  This way, the fronts will benefit from the euphonic even-ordered distrotions/coloration added by the tube preamp, so whether you are on HT/multichannel mode or in plain stereo mode, you have fronts with tubey sound.  This is the potential to  have a integrated multichannel and stereo only set-up with a mix of tube and digital ss sound.  Just turn off the center and surround power amps when in stereo. 

Use at least 2 subwoofers, one in front and another at the back to minimize room modes which can be severe in large rooms with only one subwoofer. I could recommend a couple of  200 watt RMS REL Storm 5 unported box (I prefer sealed subs) or a cheaper  B&W  ASW675 or even a 650.  You can also use a couple of Velodyne CHT-12 or 15 ported designs if you want.  This could set you  back  from 60T to P350T.  Again pre-owned stuff should be much cheaper and just as good.  

I don't know what main and surround speakers you will use, but certainly a set that is similarly rated to your power amps or thereabouts should be fine.  Go for the most powerful speakers you can afford.  Again I cannot overemphasize enough that it is better to err on the side of plenty.  And do not underestimate professional speakers.  

Just my thoughts.

[MAtZTER]

WOW, palaki ng palaki na talaga yung budget!

6m x 9m is a huge HT room. If I were to have my own house built, hanggang 7x5m lang max dimension nasa isip ko. this way kakayanin ng amps & speakers yung room size.

[ricky]

Question lang mga sirs, does it really have to be that expensive to set-up a HT in a 6x9 area? baka sa takot ni frootloops eh hindi na lang sya tumuloy Yes I agree that a 6x9 room is quite big pero i dont think you need to spend a minimum of 300t just to have a decent system in that size,kasi he can always make half of it as a game room and basta tama lang yung speaker placements im sure ok pa din yon.I feel kasi if bro has the money that big,he would not go into DIYs Hindi ito yung list your dream set-up thread No offense meant mga pare

[marckd1]

ang laki nga ng budget na kailangan kapag sinunod ang standards  but maximize first what You have and if You think na kulang then that's the time to be serious and upgrade Your gears slowly. wag kang magmadali at baka  masayang lang ang money and effort in building your ht.

[av_phile1]

Question lang mga sirs, does it really have to be that expensive to set-up a HT in a 6x9 area? baka sa takot ni frootloops eh hindi na lang sya tumuloy Yes I agree that a 6x9 room is quite big pero i dont think you need to spend a minimum of 300t just to have a decent system in that size,kasi he can always make half of it as a game room and basta tama lang yung speaker placements im sure ok pa din yon.I feel kasi if bro has the money that big,he would not go into DIYs Hindi ito yung list your dream set-up thread No offense meant mga pare

Nope, it doesn't have to be expensive.  (Then again, different people have different notions of what expensive is.  )  That is why in my post, while i mentioned some earth shaking investments, I did say there are cheaper alternatives.  I am just not sure about the lowest possible figures because preowned stuff varry much wider than regular price tags.  And I did caution against underestimating professional gears which can be a good cheap source for HT power amps and speakers.   Because if I had my way I would seriously consider professional amps and speakers which can be a fraction of the prices I mentioned.    For instance, the 12" 2-way VST speakers rated at 250watts RMS continuous power handling only cost less than 9T a pair discounted at a JB music mart.  They sound as gorgeous as any boutique speakers out there costing 5 times at half the power rating.  The BOM tube stereo preamp made in China only cost 5T at a Raon shop.  OTH, professional power amps can be a bit more expensive but still not as expensive as those Brystons and Krells.  You can look at some Tascam and Peavey brands or even settle for Konzert power amps of sufficient power.  In the area of preamp, I forgot to mention that you can get an entry-level Marantz receiver and because it has the needed pre-outs, can be used  as a 5.1 pre/pro instead of getting a Rotel 1068 costing 10 times.   And rather than get those subwoofers I recommened, you can always get a USAudio or a DTX,  but it should be at least two identical subs for the reason indicated.

But really now, to equip a 6 x 9 room with the right multichannel gears for both HT and music can be serious if you want to start right.  You can ofcourse start small and upgrade later.  But the problem is with such a room size, you get to notice your inadequacy much faster if you didn't start right.  Upgrading also implies you may have to junk some gears in the process which need not be the case if you started right and saved up for the requirement.   So while it is perfectly alright to use the Onkyo receiver in a 6x9 room, I was anticipating you could notice the inadequacy right away and the itch to upgrade will start sooner than later.  When I suggested to junk that receiver, it was more in zest as you can always sell that this early at a higher price  than later when you realize it's inadequate.  Your call.   

[av_phile1]

ang laki nga ng budget na kailangan kapag sinunod ang standards  but maximize first what You have and if You think na kulang then that's the time to be serious and upgrade Your gears slowly. wag kang magmadali at baka  masayang lang ang money and effort in building your ht.

I agree, rushing seldom gets you anywhere.  That is why, consulting in forums like this is always a good idea and that's what fruitloop is doing.  And that is why I, based on my experience with various gears in different room sizes over the last 30 years, is giving him some tips so he won't have to waste his time and effort on a trial and error basis, upgrading here and there and wasting time and money along the way.  If he starts right, he won't have to.  I always believe that starting out right the first time is always the most cost effective way to doing things. 

But, it's his ears.  He may find the Onkyo reciever adequate for his room size.  Good for him.  Or he could learn and find out for himself that it isn't.   Maybe that's a better route in the learning process, rather than following advice from older folks that have walked the same route.  His call.   

[Zitr0]

Mga sirs, makikisingit lang,

i know im not much of an expert yet like the guru's that we have already here, but i think this would help and might really contribute big to your plans sir  frootloops. To the GURUS we have, Sir MATZ, Sir Ricky and the rest, this is off course with all respect to you and this are just my opinions po. 

If i were on your place sir frootloops, knowing my resources, and the space i can save...

Since i have a very big area, i would consider deciding first on  the speakers that i would like, most importantlly the sound it produces to my ear and the "specs" it has.
 If you ask why, it is because i belive that to make a perfect HT/MUSIC room, the equiptments must matched the whole room itself where in inorder to achieve it, it is advisable to create the room around the speakers and not the other way around! Mas magastos kung may room na then bigla mo kailangan maggiba for something.

Remember, each speaker has diff. specs and different characteristics of its own that would eventually be audible in different rooms. Rem. also that there are some speakers that in order to acheive it full potential is to placed the so wide apart and, some quite close to each other and some for near field.

Also there are speakers designed to be placed off-axis and others on-axis where in the important thing about it is how far it is going to be place from the side walls and back walls for the reflection, "in some specs, it even states that it helps to create a 3d image", whereas if you place them to near would cause to much reflection. or if you place it to far it might sound dull, dry etc.

Then when it hapen's, extra buget comes in so that you can hire a good acoustician to block the excess frequencies being reflected so as to balace everything from highs to lows that should reach your ear on the desired seating position., this is the actually the case if it is placed to far or near from the walls. Also pricing for the materials would also depend, there are materials that are very expensive and more often have to shipped hear because they have special materials that can even block up to 200Khrtz. "thats not something not use in every situation. it all depends on the needs of the room in accordance with all the waves that are produced by your speakers.

Remember also that there are some speakers that can really produce such a wide soundstage that might be able to fill a very large room. Just give it proper equipment and walahhh! a good perfect sound for your ears not knowing that the speakers are just a fraction of a price of more expensive speakers that might not be able to fill the room with GOOD sound for it is not designed that way!

So as for me, since you have a big room, check the specs of your speakers again and try to see if it was designed for fill a big room, kasi pag hindi, baka mabadtrip ka lang and then you end up wanting something new again or worse, you fry the coils of your speakers bec. you feed them with to much power para lang makontento ka sa sound.. gastos na naman boss!

Its alot easier that way sir frootloops if you start it that way, not to mention, you would be able to maximize everything on it from source to speakers., because you are going to be building it from inside-out. Also you would be able to fix you cables and hide them. 

And if you do this baka mas makatipid ka, bec. you dont end up buying somethings anymore for you may not need it na pala! Tama na pala yung mga gamit mo! PERFECT na, eka nga, di OVERKILL!

PEACE! 

[frootloops]

Mga Sir's,

ric999, thank you for the advise. Now that the room is being painted na, I stop and think what will happen next. First question on this thread was "what color is ideal for my HT?", now the next question is "will my current equipment stay?", For my Onkyo amp, I guess I will have to keep it since its multi-channel naman, for the speakers which has been with me for years, is it time to upgrade? 

Remember, each speaker has diff. specs and different characteristics of its own that would eventually be audible in different rooms. Rem. also that there are some speakers that in order to acheive it full potential is to placed the so wide apart and, some quite close to each other and some for near field

This has been the most scary part for me in thinking about changing my speakers, every person has a different taste in all things, I know some who bought new sets of speakers and later on realized that his old gears were better. -or- just at par yet he spent more. To some it is better, for him, its not.

Sir av,

Thanks again for all the advise, you are right, it is good that there is a site like this which can help some people in need. I am very impulsive, if not for this thead, I would have bought something way back and dont know what to do with it now. In PDVD, I knew that there are better speakers other than BOSE. I use to praise BOSE and nothing else, until I read and read some threads, then I realized that there are other speakers which are better and cheaper. But then again, ,I will have to go back to what Sir ric had mentioned, BW might sound good in your place but not in my room. 

Just like an old story in college, uso pa nun yung bayo-bayo sa kotse, I have a friend who spent 200K for his car audio set-up, other one spent 30k for his, but the SQ of the one who spent 30K  is miles better than the other. Kasi yung gumastos ng 30K mas malinis ang tenga.

baka sa takot ni frootloops eh hindi na lang sya tumuloy

Sir, natatakot na nga ko.....ang asawa ko wait and see na. First acoustically treating my ceiling, (may kwarto kasi sa taas), then re-paint, then re-upholster...worst is when she starts recieving door-bells, "ma'm. delivery po ng speakers!!!"    Kanino ba pwede maki-tulog sa inyo?

I feel kasi if bro has the money that big,he would not go into DIYs  Hindi ito yung list your dream set-up thread.

Sir Ricky,

Correct ka dyan!

I guess I will have to put more attention first on renovating my room, kasi dati ang lakas ng reflection from the ceiling and walls, now with flat medium gray, hopefully I get the scenario that I want.

Correction on the room size mga Sirs, as I've mentioned in my previous post, mahina tayo sa math, had it re-measured earlier and it is 5meters wide and 7.5 meters long. My apologies. Humaba yata discussion dahil sa maling approximate ko. 

Sir's ricky, MAtZER, av_phile1, marckd1, ric999, Munskie ,

I really do appreciate all your help and giving time to my inquiry. Rest assure that all your comments and suggestions are well taken. I hope someday I will be able to post my humble room in the gallery, pag may lakas na ako ng loob siguro and hindi na nakakahiya yung gears ko. 

GOD BLESS and More Power!!

[MAtZTER]

6m x 9m is a huge HT room. If I were to have my own house built, hanggang 7x5m lang max dimension nasa isip ko. this way kakayanin ng amps & speakers yung room size.

Hmm, same size as my dream 5x7m HT room. This could fit 2 rows of seats. Excellent.

I was about to suggest making part of the 6x9 room as an ante room or game room about (5m x 6m) so as to make the HT room smaller (4x6).

 But your current room would be enough. But you would still need at least mid end receivers at the 50k range (or a power amp if your onkyo has pre outs) for this room size.

[Munskie]

wow!!!  ok na ok yang 5x7 meters....35 sq m of pure fun!!    2 rows of seating na yan...you can go one row of theater seats and another row of recliners.....  this is where a 7.1 set-up would be well justified too...

definitely i would recommend floorstanders here...and im not sure kung kakayanin ng isang cht 12r to deliver bass needs.  patulong here guys kung double sub? or one 15 incher....?  syempre recommend ko Velo. 

[alvinthx2]

Pampagulo lang

-The on axis  response of the speaker is most likely the best in terms of freqency response and output

-speakers looses 6 dB of their output as you double the distance

-the third dimension or the height is the most important dimension to consider because you can design your room with golden ratio to minimize room modes. It will also determine your highest low frequency standing wave and actually your crossover in determining your traveling waves. in short standing waves are determined by all 3 room dimensions not just the 2 mentioned.

- for every doubling of amplifier power you just get a 3 dB increase in sound. 100 watts 20 dBf, 200 watts 23 dBf, 400 watts 26 dBf. The math for just 1 speaker using a 90 dB sensitivity speaker(at 1 watt/1 meter) and a 200 watt amp is 90 plus the factor of 23 for a total of 113. this means that at 2 meters loudness will be at 107 dB(free space) and at 4 meters at 101 dB. But since it is an enclose room a 4 to 5 dB increase in relative speaker output is realized (106 dB at 4 meter away from the speaker). a lot of factors play of course, like the acoustic properties of your room.

- you can use klipsh speakers with ratings of 96 dB sensitivity. even using just a 100 watt amp will do fine. Pro speakers are rated even at 101 to 104 dB sensitivity , but they don't sound good in small rooms

-Pro amps are made to deliver brute amp power and not the detail and finesse of domestic amps. The only speaker I would use a pro amp is a passive subwoofer.

[Zitr0]

definitely i would recommend floorstanders here...and im not sure kung kakayanin ng isang cht 12r to deliver bass needs. patulong here guys kung double sub? or one 15 incher....? syempre recommend ko Velo.

Para saken sir munskie dalawang CHT 12R lalo na kung may balak syang mag 2 rows.

[et414]

for your room i think one good quality 12" sub like the velo would be more enough if your looking for accurate movie soundtrack reproduction. if you want to shake the whole house then thats another story  my m&k mx-105 can pressurize my 45sqm room to reference levels without a sweat

properly placing one subwoofer is hard enough pano pa kaya yung 2? click here to learn more about bass management and subwoofer placement http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/index.php

what onkyo avr and speakers are you using right now? if it has preouts just buy the speakers you want for now and add a power amp later on if you feel you need it. try auditioning the b&w 602s3, onkyo and b&w are distributed by the same company(toyama) so it might be easier to find a dealer that carries both.

hope this helps and good luck to you

[frootloops]

Hi,

Just an update on my HT renovation. The paintings are done, flat black ceiling,wood back panel, and flat medium gray for the walls. Results are perfect! No more glares!!  Also added carpet in-between the speakers and sofas. I am now considering getting a separate speaker for 2channel only, Aurum Cantus F600.DALI,Paradigm or MA., not yet really decided not until I do several auditions.  I decided to keep my multi-channel Onkyo TX-DS494 and might add a power amp, Behringer A500 might be the choice. I heard that HK amps has a problem lately, and Wharfs as well. Factory defect? Connection? who knows? 

Regarding my current BOSE set-up (301/VCS10/100), will think about it first what to do with it. So far, I am contented with it in terms of HT, not unless I have the extra bucks..then I might change the entire set-up. Saving up for Velo 12", hopefully will be able to get one soon. I can now appreciate more my PJ...

On the other hand, unfortunately, 2 of my Philips DVD 727K got busted, and guess what...it happened just 2days after the first one went out!! The first one, motherboard is dead! The second one is about the lense...haaay....!!!  :'(  i was so disappointed to see whats inside this unit..a cat and mouse can run around it, "as in walang laman talaga" and all made in China!! Better yet to just buy a cheap one wiht the same specs. I got this about a year ago...Fortunately, I was able to get an RCA buy1 take 1 recently so I have a back-up, well aside from my baby Pioneer DV233 ...


Cheers! 

[alexg]

Why don't you consider the earlier suggestion of getting a good audio speaker that you can also use for HT.

I will be ditching my HT speakers soon, and I will be getting a very decent audio speakers, am thinking of the Aurum Cantus leisure series or the Dali Ikon series, depends on my yearend bonus.  I found the Aurum Cantus or the Dali Ikons very, very reasonably priced for the quality of music reproduction that they are capable of doing. In addition, you can also buy center and rear speakers for the Aurum and the Dalis.

I will be attaching this to my audio amp and transfer to my HT amp when needed.

Like they say, audio speakers should also be good with HT, unfortunately most of the time, HT speakers are not very good for audio.

[frootloops]

Yes, this is my direction now, to get a decent speakers for audio, and I am always considering your advices before... audio speakers should also be good with HT. I also agree with your thoughts, its a fight between Aurum Cantus and Dali, but not as expensive as you mentioned. Maybe a Dali Concept 6, or F6600 Aurum,  For the F6600 , F5000R , F5500C, I was quoted for 22,500 only!

Hey, let me know when do you intend to dispose your old gears, who knows??

[av_phile1]

properly placing one subwoofer is hard enough pano pa kaya yung 2? click here to learn more about bass management and subwoofer placement http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/index.php

I probably would have let this pass but I feel I need to contest this statement.

Using the linked site from audioholics (of which I am a bit partial btw) in the ff section:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/SubwooferplacementP16.php

let me just post the sites's measured in-room bass frequency response graphs for single subwoofer and two subwoofers in a room:

SINGLE SUBWOOFER in a corner:



TWO Identical SUBWOOFERS diagonally across corners:



It should be obvious which subwoofer configuration yields a relatively flatter freq response.  Two subwoofers win hands down.  Ofcourse, peaks and valleys occur under both configs, but it should be clear which has the more pronounced peaks and dips and which gets a lot closer to being flat. 

One might argue that the arrangement of the sofas could have made the difference.  Nice try.  But they won't.  Room Modes are not a function of what's inside the room, but purely on room dimensions and subwoofer location.   A single subwoofer placement always has this characteristic peaks and valleys in its response in any room.  Shifting its location from one point to another only shifts the peaks and valleys and that is why its ideal position is so difficult to get.  OTH, using two subwoofers in different locations will result in distinct peaks and valleys where these peaks and valleys, depending on placement relative to the room,  can more or less even out to achieve a relatively flatter response.  That's why using two subs can be easier to position.

While using two identical subwoofers  will yield a flatter bass response a lot easier than just using one subwoofer of the same quality, it's still possible that two subwoofers can still result in some dips like this one:




But obviously, even the dip is not as severe and the peak is also tamer  With two subwoofers of  identical qualities, there is greater flexibility and greater chances to achieving a flatter freq response than with a single subwoofer, regardless of quality.

Two subwoofers can more accurately represent the lower signals than one, which is why many THX certified systems are only certified if they come with two subwoofers.

http://liquidtheater.com/editorial_58.html

Two subwoofers are easier to place and result in a flatter frequency response in almost all situations.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:2jbIuWvVKGAJ:www.rivesaudio.com/files/spkr_plcmt.pdf

I won't add anything further to these as they are self-explanatory.  And you can get to the sites linked to read more. 

Now whether one single subwoofer with better qualities is better than two identical subwoofers of inferior qualities, the answer is how much more superior or inferior is one compared to the other.  If the single subwoofer goes deeper, I can say MAYBE.  Because not knowing the room dimensions are, it is entirely possible that the deeper frequencies might very well be cancelled by room modes so that the advantage of a deeper subwoofer becomes irrelevant.  Otherwise, having a deeper solitary sub should be better.

If the lone subwoofer has greater power or larger cone area, it could provide better slam for some frequencies that are already there with two inferior speakers.  But it will not change the room modes one bit so that the cancellation and reinforcement (peaks and valleys) of bass frequencies resulting from room modes will still be there regardless of how much more power the lone sub has.

If the lone subwoofer has better distortion figures or have better musicality, that merits another maybe.  Because the advantage in distortion and musicality must be monumental for it to matter.  When it comes to bass frequencies, a flatter frequency response afforded by multiple subwoofers of respectable quality has a more palpable pleasantness than having improved musicality and distortion from a lone subwoofer that has severe peaks and valleys in its frequency response.  It doesn't really make audible sense to have a musical and clear bass when you can't hear some bass notes while receiving overly strong bass on another part of the spectrum precisely because of those peaks and valleys.   But the two inferior subs must be awfully inferior to make a lone sub with better musicality stand out. 

Conclusion:  Use at least two identical subwoofers of excellent quality.   Especially in large rooms.  Either that, or use bass traps to neutralize the peaks and valleys generated by a lone subwoofer.  The sonic improvement in your HT can be quite sustanstial either way.   

[ricky]

wow nice info av_phile, I also thought that using 2 subs will just mess up the room modes. I know a person who placed 2 subs fronting each other ,one at front and the other one at the back(almost same as fig 3 but lenghthwise) and said he didnt like it compared to using just one big sub.I guess placement and proper calibration really does make a big difference But as it is 1quality sub is already a pain in the pocket what more yung 2pcs