Topic: Yamaha Receivers

[dyerds]

sir naku in this hobby there seems to be little cure sa SARS. if i where you i will follow the suggestion of Matz. I have made mistakes na several times which I am trying to correct now. I have a Yamaha amp and a Marantz just bought another Yamaha last sunday 

I like the Yamaha over the Marantz  Yun nga lang yung Marantz may pre-outs kahit entry level lang  Try to audition also the Wharf Evo series.

I'll check it out sir. Check ko rin kung kasya sa budget ko. 

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You mean...It doesn't really matter what receiver I buy as long as it is an entry level thin sounding din ang kalalalabasan. Pero do you recommend that I buy Yame instead of other receivers? Well...I'll audition some of those receivers first before I decide what to buy. I just need your opinion kasi ang hirap ng napakadaming brands na pagpipilian.  :'(

[aHobbit]

I'll check it out sir. Check ko rin kung kasya sa budget ko. 

==============================================================

You mean...It doesn't really matter what receiver I buy as long as it is an entry level thin sounding din ang kalalalabasan. Pero do you recommend that I buy Yame instead of other receivers? Well...I'll audition some of those receivers first before I decide what to buy. I just need your opinion kasi ang hirap ng napakadaming brands na pagpipilian.  :'(

Thats not true ... unless you are buying a souped up amplifier where the lower bass were equalized to be prominent and have it sound more mataba - this are quite typical on so called 'high ends'. Pure and simple amplifier are most likely available with entry levels because cost is an issue, they cant put more vanilla in it. That's why, even in shoot out, it is common to have simple amps taking preferential attention - for the simple reason amp is amp.

The only reason you will go to higher model is your requirement of power because of the behavior of your chosen speaker. Again, those high end speakers more often than not exhibit low sensitivity (hard to drive) or erratic impedance swings which makes an amplifier go down to its knees.

The entry level Yamaha is of course thin on some poorly selected speakers matched into it ... but it is whole bodied for the right speakers it was matched to. Even high powered high end amplifier can succumb to a badly designed or poorly mathed speakers into it.  I have Yamaha 630 myself before which perform contrary to general experience of some people here - simply because I mated it with the right speakers. I sold it already when I seldom used my HT and have just small amp. But, am planning to get another Yamaha, regardless whether it is the entry model or higher.

Thus, it boils down to what you have (speakers) or what you want to happen (choosing the right speaker for the receiver). Although amp and speaker were made using scientific concepts, ours is not a perfect world. Choosing what sounds right to your ears, and mating speaker/amp/player/music materials will still be an art that only you should appreciate and decide. Dont trust their ears, trust yours!

ALso be careful about hypes ... hypes were made to sell products  .

... looking at my 60W per channel monoblocks - it has 4 JFET per channel .... I have a Yamaha AVR1000 with 4 transistor per channel giving 110W per channel .. for high end, the vintage 100W will be complemented by typically 4-8 transistor ... current Yamaha models can put out 105W using 2 transistors within its THD rating ... If a highend also uses 2 transistor per channel to put out same power, I dont know what's the difference with their amplifiers! The transformers are just there to supply power - but to handle music swings (power), the transistors are the one conducting the whole scenario.

[aHobbit]

sir naku in this hobby there seems to be little cure sa SARS. if i where you i will follow the suggestion of Matz. I have made mistakes na several times which I am trying to correct now. I have a Yamaha amp and a Marantz just bought another Yamaha last sunday 

I like the Yamaha over the Marantz  Yun nga lang yung Marantz may pre-outs kahit entry level lang  Try to audition also the Wharf Evo series.

Do you want to sell your Yamaha?     

[allan1836]

Thats not true ... unless you are buying a souped up amplifier where the lower bass were equalized to be prominent and have it sound more mataba - this are quite typical on so called 'high ends'. Pure and simple amplifier are most likely available with entry levels because cost is an issue, they cant put more vanilla in it. That's why, even in shoot out, it is common to have simple amps taking preferential attention - for the simple reason amp is amp.

The only reason you will go to higher model is your requirement of power because of the behavior of your chosen speaker. Again, those high end speakers more often than not exhibit low sensitivity (hard to drive) or erratic impedance swings which makes an amplifier go down to its knees.

The entry level Yamaha is of course thin on some poorly selected speakers matched into it ... but it is whole bodied for the right speakers it was matched to. Even high powered high end amplifier can succumb to a badly designed or poorly mathed speakers into it.  I have Yamaha 630 myself before which perform contrary to general experience of some people here - simply because I mated it with the right speakers. I sold it already when I seldom used my HT and have just small amp. But, am planning to get another Yamaha, regardless whether it is the entry model or higher.

Thus, it boils down to what you have (speakers) or what you want to happen (choosing the right speaker for the receiver). Although amp and speaker were made using scientific concepts, ours is not a perfect world. Choosing what sounds right to your ears, and mating speaker/amp/player/music materials will still be an art that only you should appreciate and decide. Dont trust their ears, trust yours!

ALso be careful about hypes ... hypes were made to sell products  .

... looking at my 60W per channel monoblocks - it has 4 JFET per channel .... I have a Yamaha AVR1000 with 4 transistor per channel giving 110W per channel .. for high end, the vintage 100W will be complemented by typically 4-8 transistor ... current Yamaha models can put out 105W using 2 transistors within its THD rating ... If a highend also uses 2 transistor per channel to put out same power, I dont know what's the difference with their amplifiers! The transformers are just there to supply power - but to handle music swings (power), the transistors are the one conducting the whole scenario.

Sir, you got a point here since most amps really sound the same if driven at the same level (less than 1% THD) with the same speakers and everything else constant. Besides the speaker matching, probably another culprit of the thin sound might be the quality or design of the pre-amp section of the receiver. Some brands might have almost the same pre-amp design in their series that's why even their entry level model ay "mataba" sounding though with limited power and features. Others, like Yamaha, might have different pre-amp design for certain models.        

[vtec3]

Do you want to sell your Yamaha?     

love my Yamaha  pero yung Marantz really thinking of selling it  Might sell also my newly purchase RXv 659 still in the box and dipa nagagamit, baka bili na lang ako ng mid level amp 

[aHobbit]

Sir, you got a point here since most amps really sound the same if driven at the same level (less than 1% THD) with the same speakers and everything else constant. Besides the speaker matching, probably another culprit of the thin sound might be the quality or design of the pre-amp section of the receiver. Some brands might have almost the same pre-amp design in their series that's why even their entry level model ay "mataba" sounding though with limited power and features. Others, like Yamaha, might have different pre-amp design for certain models.        

You are correct. I read thoroughly the marketing campaign of Yamaha TOP-art design - whether true or not, is a very good concept in itself. Not much anything to do in the signal path. I verified the thin sound with my 8.3 not in the amp section of Yamaha - but in the pre-amp section - since I hooked the pre-out to my monoblocks, and the resulting sound to my 8.3 is almost the same (thin like). But AFAIK, it is very clean and smooth - which I like. Wonder why Yamaha leads in HT (could it be the accurate decoding?)

Later, I have to state 8.3 is not good for yamaha with 86db sensitivity. With a decent sub, an 8.1 to Yamaha is a superb quality but economical in cost. Get a high sensitivity speaker (90db and up) and you will know how yamaha amp excels as other have discovered. I just regret too few on the higher sensitivity speaker which you can buy now.

Try to hook your CD player via the RCA (meaning the CDP decodes) and Yamaha will have a different sonic signature depending what codecs were used in the CDP. 

[aHobbit]

love my Yamaha  pero yung Marantz really thinking of selling it  Might sell also my newly purchase RXv 659 still in the box and dipa nagagamit, baka bili na lang ako ng mid level amp 

magkano mo benta?

[vtec3]

magkano mo benta?

which one yung Yamaha 659? if ever sir kung magkano ko na purchase 27k 

[allan1836]

You are correct. I read thoroughly the marketing campaign of Yamaha TOP-art design - whether true or not, is a very good concept in itself. Not much anything to do in the signal path. I verified the thin sound with my 8.3 not in the amp section of Yamaha - but in the pre-amp section - since I hooked the pre-out to my monoblocks, and the resulting sound to my 8.3 is almost the same (thin like). But AFAIK, it is very clean and smooth - which I like. Wonder why Yamaha leads in HT (could it be the accurate decoding?)

Later, I have to state 8.3 is not good for yamaha with 86db sensitivity. With a decent sub, an 8.1 to Yamaha is a superb quality but economical in cost. Get a high sensitivity speaker (90db and up) and you will know how yamaha amp excels as other have discovered. I just regret too few on the higher sensitivity speaker which you can buy now.

Try to hook your CD player via the RCA (meaning the CDP decodes) and Yamaha will have a different sonic signature depending what codecs were used in the CDP. 

Yamaha leads in HT precisely because of their DSP decoding not because of their 2ch audio sound.

I believe in order to produce substancial low bass for a small bookshelf you need to sacrifice sensitivity for higher mass and more robust mechanical parts, that's why few hi sensitivity speakers come out this days. 

[reynold]

If you are more into HT, go for yamaha, no doubt about it   And a not so expensive separate audio setup para mas ok, imo

[dyerds]

One more thing...Yame 659 din ang balak ko bilhin (I think this has pre-out) and Wharfe 9.5 since I already auditon this. Nasiyahan naman ako sa tunog nya.  The problem is I'm not that good when it comes to sound so I don't know kung manipis ba yung narinig ko or hindi (lumaki kasi ako sa component eh.  ). Do you think this would be a good pair?

[et414]

basta masaya ka why not? you'll only find out what you like through experience. listen to your own ears dude at least w/ pre-outs you have the option to upgrade to power amps if ever you get infected w/ sars

[fnvillafuerte]

.....I verified the thin sound with my 8.3 not in the amp section of Yamaha - but in the pre-amp section - since I hooked the pre-out to my monoblocks, and the resulting sound to my 8.3 is almost the same (thin like). But AFAIK, it is very clean and smooth - which I like. Wonder why Yamaha leads in HT (could it be the accurate decoding?)

......Get a high sensitivity speaker (90db and up) and you will know how yamaha amp excels as other have discovered. I just regret too few on the higher sensitivity speaker which you can buy now.

This is very correct!!!  Yung thin sound na sinasabi ay dahil nga sa preamp.  Kasi sa Yammy550 ko paired with B&W602s3, thin and bright nga sya pero nung inadjust ko ang treble sa -2 at yung bass sa +4, wow factor na sya, I got a well balanced audio sound.  Gumanda yung vocals at nagkaron ng punch ang instrumentals without turning-on the subs at naka full stereo DSP lang.  This is, in my case, the optimum tone adjustment for Yammy550 and B&W602s3 pair.  Maybe it follows na rin sa ibang Yammy models.

The 602s3 is rated at 90db, walang kahirap-hirap ang Yammy550 ko to drive the B&W's!  Kahit nga sa karaoke mode wherein very spiky ang volume due to live singing, kayang-kaya dalhin ng Yammy!  My actual experience disproves the claims here that 602s3 is a "hard to drive" speaker...

[vtec3]

One more thing...Yame 659 din ang balak ko bilhin (I think this has pre-out) and Wharfe 9.5 since I already auditon this. Nasiyahan naman ako sa tunog nya.  The problem is I'm not that good when it comes to sound so I don't know kung manipis ba yung narinig ko or hindi (lumaki kasi ako sa component eh.  ). Do you think this would be a good pair?

hirap ng humanap ng RXV 659 dahil ang sabi mayron ng dadating na RXV 661  hope the price is the same as the 659. Sa US both model are priced exactly the same. Had no room na lang sa baggage ko that is why I was not able to buy the 661 

[aHobbit]

...
Yamaha leads in HT precisely because of their DSP decoding not because of their 2ch audio sound.

... bakit, may narinig ka na bang nag lead sa 2-ch audio worldwide      

we have different wants on our audio (2ch) ... because if somebody (like Yamaha Top-ART) decoded that audio correctly, not everybody will want it ... so the vanilla of tuning amp/receivers to different taste following is more commercially viable to those who want to satisfy one's taste!

I believe in order to produce substancial low bass for a small bookshelf you need to sacrifice sensitivity for higher mass and more robust mechanical parts, that's why few hi sensitivity speakers come out this days. 

correct ... tweeters are by far the highest sensitivity in a speaker, the bass portion is limited both by the parts, the box and its commercial viability ... so to make it linear frequency wise, sensitivity has to be sacrificed

...
inadjust ko ang treble sa -2 at yung bass sa +4, wow factor na sya, I got a well balanced audio sound.  Gumanda yung vocals at nagkaron ng punch ang instrumentals without turning-on the subs at naka full stereo DSP lang.  This is, in my case, the optimum tone adjustment for Yammy550 and B&W602s3 pair.  Maybe it follows na rin sa ibang Yammy models.

The 602s3 is rated at 90db, walang kahirap-hirap ang Yammy550 ko to drive the B&W's!  Kahit nga sa karaoke mode wherein very spiky ang volume due to live singing, kayang-kaya dalhin ng Yammy!  My actual experience disproves the claims here that 602s3 is a "hard to drive" speaker
...

You got the idea ... just dont understand some people wanted it the hard way ... bi-amp here & there ... bi-wire here & there ... find the right equalization to the speaker by changing gears here & there ... whereas all those activities are just altering the tonal (equalization) characteristics of what they wanted to hear ... I dont know why those receivers incorporated those tone controls, aesthetics?   

Commercially, this is what those high end wanted us to believe in ... so they can always hype what they've got ... putting a permanent tone filter before the amp stage and sell the amp with that puny filters/tone control to the unsuspecting consumers at exhorbitant price

And some people even believe, putting a higher amp power right after your pre-out will change sonic signature    ... it will just be louder with the same sonic signature      ... unless another puny thing has been kept secret inside the power amp! Business as usual!     

[MAtZTER]

I agree, thats why I have always recommended a good CD player (via pure direct) instead for Yamaha's audio applications, or (IMhO) the more musical higher models. Thats why even as a processor for power amps, I would still prefer to use the mid models.

Power amps have a different task, but they dont just give a louder volume, but also better SQ cuz of more breathing room for dynamics, regardless of high or low sensitivity speakers. But in the case of a hard to drive/power hungry speaker mated to an underpowered receiver, the sound will tend to sound thin and a power amp will help a lot in this case to change that...on high or low volumes.

One of my experiements:

Bada tube CDp---> Bada Tube preamp---> Yamaha 2500 (in pure direct)--->Rotel Power amp---> Dynaudio speakers.

The concept is to squeeze the Yamaha in between an otherwise all-audio setup. It did well for me in audio, specially cuz the volume can be controlled via remote!

Best of all it can be used for HT too even w/ a different center speaker, thanks to the 2500's YPAO calibration mike that equalizes the center & surrounds to the tone of the front speakers!

Yipee! I just love Yamaha technology!

[allan1836]

You got the idea ... just dont understand some people wanted it the hard way ... bi-amp here & there ... bi-wire here & there ... find the right equalization to the speaker by changing gears here & there ... whereas all those activities are just altering the tonal (equalization) characteristics of what they wanted to hear ... I dont know why those receivers incorporated those tone controls, aesthetics?   

It's really funny how so called "audiophiles" swear over tone controls and pay big bucks for bare pre-amps with almost nothing inside but just a volume pot and a selector. Very ironic indeed, because your supposed to pay for what is inside. 
Though, in a way, I'm also a victim of this so called "purist ideology", wherein, I feel uneasy when using the infamous bass and treble controls. I was thinking dinadaya ko yung sound but come to think of it, we sometimes just need to alter the sound because of outside variables like room acoustics, speaker placement and of course, the character of the speakers used themselves.
We need to alter the sound if our environment is not perfect, to preserve the original neutral recording which is being changed by said variables. 

[KwekuClyde]

Sirs, have a yammy 659, use it with Wharfe 9.5, 9CS, WH2 and 9CR, VX10 Series II, and DTX 4.15. been using it for HT since i acquired it. Yesterday tried hooking up my ipod to it using regular rca in enhanced 2ch and 7ch.

Question is how come it doesn't use the subs? Is there anyway to force it to use the subs?

[Reymer]

Check your speaker setting, if your main speakers are set to Large, set it to Small

[obey]

Check your speaker setting, if your main speakers are set to Large, set it to Small

This is correct.  You can also try to set your LFE to BOTH instead of SWFR (if you still want to set your speakers as Large).  This way your main speakers and subwoofer will receive the LFE signals. 

[MAtZTER]

IMO, "Manipis" is not a really a bad thing for HT (wag lang manipis cuz of underpowered amp section+hard to drive speaker). It brings out the details but maybe fails to impress for music. Some receivers I have tried are "thick" sounding (great in audio) but fail to be as detailed. But they present details in a crisp powerful manner, w/c also was not bad IMO.

It just depends on w/c presentation you prefer.

[threadlock]

One of my experiements:

Bada tube CDp---> Bada Tube preamp---> Yamaha 2500 (in pure direct)--->Rotel Power amp---> Dynaudio speakers.

Yipee! I just love Yamaha technology!

sir matz, ok lang kung sa ganitong setup eh hindi gumamit ng tube pre-amp? I mean what's the effect if my setup is like this:

Bada tube CDp---> Yamaha 659(in pure direct)--->Bada Power amp---> Mission M52 speakers

[audiojunkie]

Bada tube CDp---> Yamaha 659(in pure direct)--->Bada Power amp---> Mission M52 speakers

Try it and tell us the result....

[MAtZTER]

sir matz, ok lang kung sa ganitong setup eh hindi gumamit ng tube pre-amp? I mean what's the effect if my setup is like this:

Bada tube CDp---> Yamaha 659(in pure direct)--->Bada Power amp---> Mission M52 speakers

I just arranged my setup like that last week, then inserted the tube preamp after a few days (yesterday).

Both are good, there is just a more "tubey" sound when you insert the tube preamp.

Nice speakers! Used to have em before. 

[docelmo]

Sir!
A yammy 800 and 995 are in the B/S section....which of the two is a better all-around amp?
Thanks!

[ricky]

Sir!
A yammy 800 and 995 are in the B/S section....which of the two is a better all-around amp?
Thanks!

For me its the 800, specs wise and bec its one of the earlier models na mabibigat pa meaning hindi pa tinipid yung cost of production

[hattori_hanzo]

995 hindi na tipid sa parts top-of-the-line pa, yun nga lang 5.1

[audiojunkie]

995 hindi na tipid sa parts top-of-the-line pa, yun nga lang 5.1

meron ba itong preout for 7.1 option? Also, only few movies have 7.1 audio config. only those 
with EX-Suround. 

[hattori_hanzo]

may pre out siya on all channel's

[audiojunkie]

may pre out siya on all channel's

What i mean was,    option for 7.1 preout so you can just add ext. amp for the 2 Sur. back channel... if it has, it's a good feature..