Author Topic: The War Begins... (Read 107137 times)

Munskie · « **Reply #960 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 06:08 AM »

I am one of those PS3 owners whose attach rate for Blu-ray movies is zero....nada.

Kasi wala pa yung shipment ko!!! Bwiset!!

juneaki · « **Reply #961 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 07:23 AM »

Black Xbox 360 elite is coming with 120 gb hdisc and HDMI output!
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/10636/1092/

Mouldingo · « **Reply #962 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 07:52 AM »

Paramount Annouces Four New Blu-ray And HD DVD Catalog Titles

Paramount Home Entertainment has announced four catalog titles that will be released simultaneously on Blu-ray and HD DVD this summer.

'Freedom Writers' starring Scott Glenn and Hilary Swank will be available May 22, 'Hustle & Flow' on June 26, and 'The Untouchables (Special Collector's Edition)' and 'The Warriors (Ultimate Director's Cut)' on July 3. Specifics for each release are not yet available though you can safely assume extras found on the standard DVDs will all be ported over.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #963 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 08:03 AM »

Quote from: Mouldingo on Mar 20, 2007 at 11:11 PM

But you must admit even a small percentage of 2 million PS3 players would still outnumber 200,000 HD DVD players.

And you have to admit that even a small percentage of 7 million xbox360 users who had bought the HD DVD add-on .......

Munskie · « **Reply #964 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05 AM »

Quote from: Mouldingo on Mar 21, 2007 at 07:52 AM

Paramount Annouces Four New Blu-ray And HD DVD Catalog Titles

Paramount Home Entertainment has announced four catalog titles that will be released simultaneously on Blu-ray and HD DVD this summer.

'Freedom Writers' starring Scott Glenn and Hilary Swank will be available May 22, 'Hustle & Flow' on June 26, and 'The Untouchables (Special Collector's Edition)' and 'The Warriors (Ultimate Director's Cut)' on July 3. Specifics for each release are not yet available though you can safely assume extras found on the standard DVDs will all be ported over.

great...the Untouchables is a must buy for me........will definitely buy it in HD DVD....

Mouldingo · « **Reply #965 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 08:52 AM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2007 at 08:03 AM

And you have to admit that even a small percentage of 7 million xbox360 users who had bought the HD DVD add-on .......

So let's go back to the sales figures again...

DVDempire (3/21/2007)
Percentage of total
Hi-Def sales:

Format: Blu-Ray HDDVD
Week: 71.23% 28.77%
Month: 67.75% 32.25%
Year: 61.13% 38.87%

Wow...a small percentage of xbox360-Hd DVD must be really small

And to think they lorded the sales figures last year...

Salesrank of top 100 products (Amazon.com 3/21/2007):

Mmmm...same here too.

What do HD DVD owners have to look forward to in March? Happy Feet and Children Of Men. Those aren't just a couple of big releases...they're the only big releases for HD DVD, aside from a few smaller titles from the likes of small studios Ryko Distribution and DVD International.

Meanwhile, Blu-ray owners will not only be treated to the "day and date" titles listed above in March, but hot catalog titles such as Big Fish, Chicken Little, Finding Neverland and March Of The Penguins.

If HD DVD does indeed lose this format war, they will have no one to blame but themselves. Since before Christmas, they have offered next to nothing for their adopters to get excited about.

Munskie · « **Reply #966 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 09:22 AM »

Let's see this next three months how those numbers would stack up again. It is true that Blu-ray has indeed walloped HD DVD the past 3 months or so, but I believe mainly on lack of content for the HD DVD side. Since January up to March 20...Blu-ray has released 65 titles compared to 23 for HD DVD, including a 1 month spell of no release for HD DVD side (Feb 27 to Mar 27).

But this coming weeks starting March 27, there would be at least a level playing field in terms of quantity of content....with HD DVD releasing 56 titles compared to 50 for Blu-ray. HD DVD side though is a month ahead of announced releases..with July 03 being the farthest compared to june 03 for Blu-ray.

Again, I still believe this boxing match is far from over .....so lets consider this coming three to four months as another boxing round. HD DVD won the Intro battle, with Blu-ray coming back during the holidays, and walloping HD DVD during the first quarter of the year. Let us watch the next quarter..... I'm glad I'll be watching on a neutral corner!!!

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #967 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 12:25 PM »

So far I have 9 HD-DVDs and 9 Blu-Ray titles. However, I am awaiting 10+ more Blu-Ray discs from Amazon (thanks to the 50% off sale)

bachwitz · « **Reply #968 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 01:28 PM »

a bit OT.

Devil May Cry 4 goes multiplatform

The former PlayStation 3 exclusive will now also be appearing on the Xbox 360 and PC.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/devilmaycry4/news.html?sid=6167678&om_act=convert&om_clk=newlyadded&tag=newlyadded;title;1

No more game exclusivity for PS3, it seems they are losing 3rd party developers at a fast rate.
Very Untimely news, 2 days to go before a European PS3 launch.
MGS4 and FFXIII are the only reasons for a Xbox360 owner to buy a PS3.
I could say Sony bungled big time.

barrister · « **Reply #969 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 01:44 PM »

Quote from: Munskie on Mar 21, 2007 at 09:22 AM

... It is true that Blu-ray has indeed walloped HD DVD the past 3 months or so, but I believe mainly on lack of content for the HD DVD side. ...

But this coming weeks starting March 27, there would be at least a level playing field in terms of quantity of content....with HD DVD releasing 56 titles compared to 50 for Blu-ray.

Just wait for the upcoming HD-DVD releases. This time, HD-DVD's strategy will focus on HDi, with Universal set to test the waters:

Online Interactivity to Spearhead Universal's 2007 HD DVD Assault
Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 02:50 AM ET

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Microsoft/Universal/HDi/Exclusive_HD_Content/Online_Interactivity_to_Spearhead_Universals_2007_HD_DVD_Assault/523

av_phile1 · « **Reply #970 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 01:54 PM »

Quote from: bachwitz on Mar 21, 2007 at 01:28 PM

No more game exclusivity for PS3, it seems they are losing 3rd party developers at a fast rate.

I could say Sony bungled big time.

I read somewhere that SONY did not enter into any exclusivity contract with game developers with the PS3. Unlike with the PS2. I think this gives more economic advantage to game developers to have their content available to all game platforms.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #971 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 02:10 PM »

Quote from: Mouldingo on Mar 21, 2007 at 08:52 AM

So let's go back to the sales figures again...

DVDempire (3/21/2007)
Percentage of total
Hi-Def sales:

Format: Blu-Ray HDDVD
Week: 71.23% 28.77%
Month: 67.75% 32.25%
Year: 61.13% 38.87%

Wow...a small percentage of xbox360-Hd DVD must be really small And to think they lorded the sales figures last year...

OFcourse, what can you expect? IF there are no good HD DVD titles around, what sales figures are their users going to generate?

Munskie · « **Reply #972 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 03:30 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 20, 2007 at 07:44 PM

And while the PS3 is in fact the best BD player out there todate, the important thing is the attach rate or the rate at which the acquisition of the player translates into HD title sales. There are just no stats on this for the PS3 or how many PS3 users are buying BD titles and what percentage is using it purely as a BD player. In contrast with the Xbox360 HD DVD add-on, anyone who buys one is sure to use it as an HD player. Else, why buy the add-on?

Just wanna tell you what happened when I got my PSP updated in a Game shop in Nepo Mall here in Angeles City. The game shop is selling a brand new PS3 for 28k...the owner offerd it to me and told the him that I already got one....and would use it priimarily for blu-ray movies......then a twenty something guy who browses thru some PS2 games and is apparently saving up to get a PS3 heard what I said and proceeded to ask me..... "ah meron pala blu-ray movies?...akala ko pang games lang yung blu-ray...."

Point is.........there are PS3 owners there who primarily bought it for gaming only....or for gaming and occasional BD movie watching....and in our community here, more of BD movie watching than gaming. So there is just no sure way to know the attach rate of PS3 for BD movies........unlike the x-box 360's add-on.....

bachwitz · « **Reply #973 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 03:45 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2007 at 01:54 PM

I read somewhere that SONY did not enter into any exclusivity contract with game developers with the PS3. Unlike with the PS2. I think this gives more economic advantage to game developers to have their content available to all game platforms.

Im not sure about this. Those games listed on the link were supposed to be PS3 exclusive. But after the bungled launch, those developers suddenly started to jump ship.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #974 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 04:43 PM »

Quote from: Munskie on Mar 21, 2007 at 03:30 PM

So there is just no sure way to know the attach rate of PS3 for BD movies........unlike the x-box 360's add-on.....

Exactly. Which was what I said in that post.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #975 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 04:49 PM »

Quote from: bachwitz on Mar 21, 2007 at 03:45 PM

Im not sure about this. Those games listed on the link were supposed to be PS3 exclusive. But after the bungled launch, those developers suddenly started to jump ship.

If there was some exclusivity contract, those developers jumping ship would be exposing themselves to ligitation by Sony. And Sony has been know to drive entrepreneurs out of business when they want to. (forgot the name of the hongkong distributor brought to court by Sony and is now out of business.) So i think there's none.

bachwitz · « **Reply #976 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 05:10 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2007 at 04:49 PM

If there was some exclusivity contract, those developers jumping ship would be exposing themselves to ligitation by Sony. And Sony has been know to drive entrepreneurs out of business when they want to. (forgot the name of the hongkong distributor brought to court by Sony and is now out of business.) So i think there's none.

ok, so maybe its the developers own initiative thinking that PS3 will sell well early, but didnt.

barrister · « **Reply #977 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 05:14 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2007 at 02:10 PM

OFcourse, what can you expect? IF there are no good HD DVD titles around, what sales figures are their users going to generate?

That's point number 1: Fewer Titles.

Blu ray's higher sales figures for January and February 2007 are inaccurate indicators of market preference simply because there were more Blu ray releases during that period.

A more accurate indicator would arise if we can compare sales figures for a single title that was released on both formats. On this score, Blu ray still sold more discs. In February 2007, The Departed sold about 20,000 units for Blu ray and about 13,000 units for HD-DVD. http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/514

Does this mean that Blu ray already won? Of course not. We have to go to point number 2: Free Vouchers.

At a Blu ray press conference at the CeBIT trade show, BDA chairman Frank Simonis said, "Within three years it will just be Blu-ray," since Blu-ray discs were out-selling HD DVDs by 3:1 in the US.

Olivier Van Wynendaele, Deputy General manager of HD DVD at Toshiba Ltd said the claims were "propaganda" and then proceeded to dispute them point by point in a call to tech.co.uk.

Van Wynendaele argues that the reason for the disparity is that new owners of PlayStation 3 games console are simply redeeming free Blu-ray movie vouchers given to them by Sony that they have to exchange at retail stores, thus distorting genuine sales figures.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20070202090024.html

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/high-definition/news/toshiba-rejects-blu-ray-victory-claim?articleid=943604279

And that's the hot issue these days in the BD vs. HD-DVD war.

Let the BDA and Sony answer. Is it true that free BD vouchers are bundled with PS3 purchases? Were the Blu ray discs that were purchased via free vouchers included in Blu ray sales figures?

Most importantly, why not just give away the discs for free as HD-DVD did. Why does it have to be a free BD movie voucher redeemable at retail stores?

===========================================================

Here's another way to interpret sales figures:

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Disc_Sales_Surpass_HD_DVD/1172267610

Mouldingo · « **Reply #978 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 05:31 PM »

So it's still content that will make or break either format after all...

barrister · « **Reply #979 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 05:40 PM »

The simple truth is that it's just too early to tell at this point. And you can bet that even if the BDA has already proclaimed victory, both Sony and the BDA are well aware that it's still too early to tell.

The only problem is that the BDA's proclamation of victory, although they know it to be untrue, might actually become a self-fulfilling prohecy if believed by the consumer. And that could be the BDA's objective all along.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #980 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 08:55 PM »

Quote from: barrister on Mar 21, 2007 at 05:40 PM

The simple truth is that it's just too early to tell at this point. And you can bet that even if the BDA has already proclaimed victory, both Sony and the BDA are well aware that it's still too early to tell.

Indeed. 2006 saw the release of about 12,500 DVD titles worldwide. And both HD DVD and Blu Ray can manage only 200+ titles. And we're not even talking about the DVD titles released since 1997. 2005 saw the release of a record 13,600 DVDs for the year. That's a total of 26,100 since 2005 only. Not only are the HD formats still a super long way to go in the war, they are essentially unheard off by the masses. The best estimates put the two formats as penetrating only less than 1% of the home theater market - mostly niche - the moneyed HT afficionados and device geeks who are impatient early adopters. Moreover, there are now around 122 Million DVD players in homes worldwide. I think both formats would have to see at least a quarter of that to really get some direction on which format is winning, if at all. Even assuming wrongly that all the 2million PS3s shipped (not sold, mind you, as there are still plenty in shops across America and Japan) are used for HD playback, that's still nothing compared to the 122M installed DVDs that BD aims to replace. And it is not as if that number is standing still. DVD players are still being bought unabated everywhere. So are DVDs.

At their rate, HD DVD and BD would be lucky to reach the current maket penetration levels of DVD-A and SACD in 3 years time. Which, in the context of a similarly overwhelming CD titles. is also next to nothing. With a mere 1,000+ HD titles promised for 2007, 6 years might be more apt if they doubled the titles released every year hereafter.

The only time either of these formats can take off is when LCD and Plasma HDTVs start to be within reach of the masses. The moneyed HT afficionadoes who have them won't determine the winning format. The two formats will just end up like DVD-A/SACD if it was limited to the moneyed videophiles. Selling the players cheap won't because the masses won't see any dramatic advantage on their regular 21" TVs the way DVD had over VHS. HD won't mean a thing to them as its advantage is evident only at 42" HDTV screens and above. The two must go together in becoming affordable for HD to penetrate mass HT the way DVD has.

Quote

The only problem is that the BDA's proclamation of victory, although they know it to be untrue, might actually become a self-fulfilling prohecy if believed by the consumer. And that could be the BDA's objective all along.

Hmmm... Reminds of the Marcoses. Remain steadfast to your lies up to the end. And the public will believe they're true.

pchin · « **Reply #981 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 09:30 PM »

Yes agree! Good points guys. It's far far from over

Quote from: barrister on Mar 21, 2007 at 05:40 PM

The only problem is that the BDA's proclamation of victory, although they know it to be untrue, might actually become a self-fulfilling prohecy if believed by the consumer. And that could be the BDA's objective all along.

Hmm...yeah I know what you meant

Mouldingo · « **Reply #982 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:14 PM »

Toshiba chops $100 off HD DVD player

Today, AOL's Engadget reported that according to some alleged retail insiders who frequent the AVS Forum message boards, the much-rumored price drop on HD DVD players is about to become a reality. According to said blogger, on April 1 the HD-A2 will be repriced at $399 MSRP (down from $499) and the $799 HD-XA2 will also shed $100. That all may be true, but the fact is a quick check over at Amazon would reveal that the price cuts are already in effect. The HD-A2 is $356.99 and the HD-XA2 is sitting at a cool $599.99.

Lazy reporting aside (we are all guilty of it at one time or another), the big question is whether the price cuts will actually make a serious difference. At this point, the majority of sales of next-gen DVD players appear tied to the game consoles (the PS3 has a built-in Blu-ray, and the XBox 360 has an add-on HD DVD player for $200), and neither format stands to make big gains in the standalone market until the players get down below $250--and maybe even less.

I don't want to call Toshiba desperate, but when it's offering five free HD DVD movies with the purchase of a player, that sounds like the company is having trouble enticing folks to buy in. (If my memory serves, in the early days of DVD, some companies were offering three free DVDs, but not as many as five.) It also doesn't help when the New York Post is writing articles that quote analysts saying retailers will be pulling the plug on HD DVD in 2008. True, it's the Post. But people make a bad habit of believing what they read.

Munskie · « **Reply #983 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:20 PM »

Just got a BD copy of Underworld Evolution (just enough to derail my frustration over my delayed amazon orders) and invited two of my friends over....first impressions? A friend commented "Blu-ray na ba yan??.....parang mas maganda ang HD ah..... " While I myself did find the PQ to be just ok...my two friends said otherwise. Audio quality is quite good either with Dolby Digital or PCM 5.1 passing thru optical. The latter isnt bad at all, even if downstreamed....maybe my thoughts would differ if I had a hdmi equipped AVR....

pchin · « **Reply #984 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:25 PM »

Quote from: Munskie on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:20 PM

The latter isnt bad at all, even if downstreamed....maybe my thoughts would differ if I had a hdmi equipped AVR....

You're most welcome to run a trial at my HT using the Yammy HDMI

av_phile1 · « **Reply #985 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:28 PM »

Quote from: Munskie on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:20 PM

Audio quality is quite good either with Dolby Digital or PCM 5.1 passing thru optical. The latter isnt bad at all, even if downstreamed....maybe my thoughts would differ if I had a hdmi equipped AVR....

If I recall right, uncompressed PCM 5.1 can't pass thru optical or toslink. Bandwidth is too high. Has to be HDMI 1.3 at least. The downstream part is correct. The player downsamples the audio track to DD or DTS to pass thru toslink.

pchin · « **Reply #986 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM »

Quote from: Mouldingo on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:14 PM

According to said blogger, on April 1 the HD-A2 will be repriced at $399 MSRP (down from $499)[/i]

In reality, it could be even cheaper than $399. I bought my unit in 30 Dec 2006. At that time the HD-A2 was already selling at $380 without shipping. And recently prior to the price-cut announcement, some shops already selling at $380 with FREE shipping (in US only).

Munskie · « **Reply #987 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:35 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:28 PM

PCM 5.1 can't pass thru optical or toslink. Has to be HDMI 1.3 at least. The downstream part is correct. The player downsamples the audio track to DD or DTS to pass thru toslink.

....its downstreaming to my AVR as Dolby Pro-Logic IIx....not bad...not bad at all.....

of course given my equipment limitations, if I have a choice in a title with a BD or HD DVD version, I would choose the latter, especially if it has Dolby TrueHD.......the PS3 doesnt have analog 5.1.....

Munskie · « **Reply #988 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:36 PM »

Quote from: pchin on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM

In reality, it could be even cheaper than $399. I bought my unit in 30 Dec 2006. At that time the HD-A2 was already selling at $380 without shipping. And recently prior to the price-cut announcement, some shops already selling at $380 with FREE shipping (in US only).

selling yata in amazon now in the $350 range.....

av_phile1 · « **Reply #989 on:** Mar 21, 2007 at 10:39 PM »

Quote from: pchin on Mar 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM

In reality, it could be even cheaper than $399. I bought my unit in 30 Dec 2006. At that time the HD-A2 was already selling at $380 without shipping. And recently prior to the price-cut announcement, some shops already selling at $380 with FREE shipping (in US only).

On line retailing is, more often than not, cheaper than brick n mortar retailing. On line sales do away with middlemen distributors. So it is no wonder that your Tosh bought online is cheaper than the same model being sold in regular stores.