Author Topic: Superman Returns R3  (Read 22166 times)

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Offline rafgar

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #60 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 06:58 AM »

The disc is dvd9.... it seems like the pixel/picture quality was ruined during the encoding process....

...I'm having thoughts that the locally sold DVDs are like ripped from other region, then re-encoded to region 3 (with poor quality encoding)...  ??? Can anyone confirm? If ganun nga, malamang ganun nga rin sa ibang mga "budget" locally available DVDs kaya pangit  (usually) ang pixel/picture quality....  ???


With the good track record of Warner with regard to its R3 releases, I doubt if the local Warner releases are just re-encoded from R1 (or from any other region).  The quality of local Warner releases are generally consistent with its R1 counterparts, although there may be some differences in content.  The video quality of the Superman Returns DVD may be explained by the earlier post of Sir boredfilmmaker.

As to the budget releases (such as those of Magnavision and C-Interactive), these are encoded in DVD5 discs kaya talagang magsa-suffer ang picture quality.  And these releases are known to be locally pressed/encoded.


Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #61 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 07:20 AM »
As per Warner, releases are mastered from a single HD source with the subtitles and menus added at a later stage depending on the region. In fact, many of their releases are multi-region now which means they're authored to play in different countries.

Of all the studios, WHV's Burbank headquarters is the strictest when it comes to localization of DVDs for local markets. To date, no facility in the Philippines has passed certification for local duplication, much less mastering from HD source materials.

Given that they shot the film on HD,  the artifacts are probably due to the limitations of the format ("Collateral" comes to mind) or Warner didn't do a very good job in encoding the film for DVD. Hopefully not on purpose.  Either way, they seem to be giving us yet another irritating reason to "upgrade" to HD-DVD which ticks me off.
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 07:23 AM by firewired »
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Offline RadicalDude

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #62 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 08:25 AM »
the movie itself..... not so noticable syempre on a standard crt tv, but on lcd tv, ang daming pixelations...   ???

I'd still like to probably buy a region 1 na lang for collection.... :-[

I was supposed to buy pa naman sana of the 2-disc yesterday. If this is the case, then I'll have to wait na  lang for R1, wala na kaming CRT TV sa bahay.
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Offline Mr. Hankey

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #63 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 08:56 AM »
I was supposed to buy pa naman sana of the 2-disc yesterday. If this is the case, then I'll have to wait na  lang for R1, wala na kaming CRT TV sa bahay.

Did you read firewired's post above yours?
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Offline RadicalDude

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #64 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 09:20 AM »
Yes I did.
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Offline Mr. Hankey

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #65 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 09:23 AM »
Good, then I hope that guides you about the quality of the R1 you intend to purchase instead of the R3.

Of course, it's ultimately your personal choice to buy an R1 or an R3, but the picture quality should be the same for both versions, if that was your main reason for changing your mind on which region to get. I am curious, though, about the R1's "gold foil o-sleeve packaging." I will get to see a copy later.

Given that they shot the film on HD,  the artifacts are probably due to the limitations of the format ("Collateral" comes to mind) or Warner didn't do a very good job in encoding the film for DVD. Hopefully not on purpose.

You know, considering this is available as an HD DVD/DVD Combo Format disc in the States, I'm thinking it just may be intentional, so those who compare the two versions on their disc won't be disappointed in the new format.  :o
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 09:45 AM by Mr. Hankey »
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Offline Munskie

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #66 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:07 AM »
the movie itself..... not so noticable syempre on a standard crt tv, but on lcd tv, ang daming pixelations...   ???

I'd still like to probably buy a region 1 na lang for collection.... :-[
share lang ako sa konting na research ko, regarding macroblocking (or as we know it, pixelization). 

DVD uses lossy compression such as MPEG2, and the higher the compression rate (and since Superman Returns was shot in HD), the more content is removed. At decompression, the output of certain decoded blocks makes surrounding pixels appear averaged together and look like larger blocks. Blocking and other artifacts become more noticeable lalo na sa fast moving scenes.  In this case naman, a 480p source like DVD will have pixelization  much noticeable  sa LCD (which could be HD native resolution like 720p) unlike sa standard CRT TV na walang scaling nangyayari.... :)  We can confirm this once the review for the HD versions comes up.

just my two cents...kaya, as stated by mr. Hankey, Region 1 and 3 have the same PQ... :)
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:11 AM by Munskie »

Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #67 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:24 AM »
You know, considering this is available as an HD DVD/DVD Combo Format disc in the States, I'm thinking it just may be intentional, so those who compare the two versions on their disc won't be disappointed in the new format.  :o

Yeah that's my conspiracy theory as well. Also because there's that rumoured extended edition in the works for next year.
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Offline Munskie

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #68 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:42 AM »
Yeah that's my conspiracy theory as well. Also because there's that rumoured extended edition in the works for next year.
sa forecasts nila, earnings from DVD will dry up.....kaya they need another format..to milk out consumers again    Double dip uli yun lalu na sa catalog titles.  Oh well, theyre here to make profit........... :-[  in return, they should give us better looking and better sounding films.......even in HD kasi minsan me crap... :)

Offline Mr. Hankey

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #69 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 11:00 AM »
Also because there's that rumoured extended edition in the works for next year.

What reveals that an extended edition will definitely come out next year is that the very expensive ($10M) "Return to Krypton" scene they deleted from the theatrical cut due to time constraints was not included among the "Deleted Scenes" of this current DVD.  :-\

Grr... I hate these intentional double dip-titles by these greedy studios!   >:(
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 11:09 AM by Mr. Hankey »
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Offline jonster

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #70 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 11:25 AM »
What reveals that an extended edition will definitely come out next year is that the very expensive ($10M) "Return to Krypton" scene they deleted from the theatrical cut due to time constraints was not included among the "Deleted Scenes" of this current DVD.  :-\

I was also expecting it to be in the deleted scenes. :(
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Offline toyfanatic

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #71 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 12:58 PM »

 buti na lang im still using crt tv so hardly notice the pixellation that you guys are mentioning.....would have gotten sana the UE kaso is way above my budget at the same time hated Superman 3 and 4 :P

Offline jonster

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #72 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 03:13 PM »
Im also using crt tv sony wega 25".  The grainy picture is very obvious compared to other titles, for me this is the worst picture quality for an original title using DVD9, para syang pirated or parang DVD5 lang ang ginamit na media. :P  Kung crt pa lang halata na, lalo na siguro kayong mga naka LCD. :-[

Its not the pixellation but rather you can see some grains lalo na kung dark yung scenes.  Meron dun scene na medyo madilim yung ground and maliwanag naman yung sky (or the other way around), kitang kita mo na may mga grains from dark spot to light spot.

Like others just said, sa tingin ko nga intentional ito para mag upgrade na tayo sa HD-DVD or Blue-ray.. :'(
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 03:17 PM by jonster »
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Offline Munskie

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #73 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 03:25 PM »
here is DVDTOWN.com's review:

Video:
What I remember most about this movie's picture quality in a motion-picture theater was its crystalline clarity, shot as it was with a new Panasonic Genesis HD camera. However, I also remember it not looking entirely natural because it seemed too glossy, clean, and flat. Now that it's transferred to disc in a high-bit-rate, anamorphic widescreen measuring about 2.20:1 across my television, I notice there is a tad more delicate grain in the DVD picture than I noticed in the theater. Fortunately, it tends to give the digital image a little more texture and realism, so I can't complain. Yet despite the new camera's higher resolution and the best standard-definition DVD transfer possible, there is a soft, muted look about the proceedings compared to conventional photography. So, while the video is fine, I'm not entirely happy with it.


hmmm..is it intentional or not?  did they overdo giving it a natural look by giving it a dash of grain?   ???
i'll post comments as soon as the HD/DVD combo disc arrives......
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 05:59 PM by Munskie »

Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #74 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 04:51 PM »
Yup, that was the complaint about the IMAX version as well. The grain looked overdone after they blew it up.  For all we know, this could've been a DVD-release creative decision on Brian Singer's part to add texture to the film and match the cinematography of the Donner films.

Best to wait for a review of the HD-DVD release to see if the grain is present in that version.
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 04:56 PM by firewired »
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Offline dobler

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #75 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 05:18 PM »
Excerpt from Wired Magazine's  June 2006 interview with Bryan Singer:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/singer.html

You’re one of the last big directors to go digital. Why did you make the switch?
I’m an old-fashioned guy, so this was a huge step. I remember going to George Lucas’ digital summit at Skywalker Ranch in 2002. It’s this event to showcase digital technologies, with all these filmmakers: Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese, Ron Howard, John Lasseter, Bob Zemeckis, Oliver Stone, Robert Rodriguez. It was a hoot. Texas Instruments had a demo of the new digital protection systems. Suddenly I’m sitting with all my idols – I felt like I won some big prize. I had breakfast with Lucas the last morning. He was really making the pitch hard for digital, and I just felt there’s still this artifact, there’s still stuff going on that bothers me.

What changed your mind?
We shot the screen test for Brandon Routh, who plays Superman, in Super 35 film. That’s how I shot X2 and The Usual Suspects. And we thought, just for fun, we would throw up an old 70-mm Panavision camera at the same time. That’s how they shot Lawrence of Arabia and 2001: A Space Odyssey, but it’s not used anymore because it’s outrageously expensive. We threw the screen test up in a theater that had 70-mm capability, and then we just went back and forth. Suddenly the 35-mm image looked so primitive. It was depressing, in resolution, clarity, and intimacy. The 70-mm was like Imax but without the crazy eight stories. But using 70-mm cameras would be millions of dollars more expensive. Around that time, my cinematographer, Tom Siegel, said, “Well, there’s this new digital camera called the Genesis that uses the Panavision lenses and records the image onto a single chip the same size as the 35-mm film frame.”

They had some prototype cameras just sitting around at the ready?
Well, there was one. We brought this one camera to Australia, where we were filming, and started doing tests against the Super 35. We filmed a girl in a golf cart driving around the lot, from midday to sundown, so we could see different light qualities, what the headlights would look like, how the look would change from natural to artificial lighting. We shot surfaces, like wood and stone. We shot everything with both film and the Genesis. And then Tom and I locked ourselves in a screening room at Fox Studios Australia and just watched all of it, digital next to film. We felt that it was exquisite enough and different enough. In that room, the two of us made the decision to do it.

But nobody had used these cameras to shoot a movie yet. How’d you convince the studio to take the gamble?
I wrote an email to Jeff [Robinov, president of production at Warner Bros.] and said I wanted to do this. And he said, Cool. So then the next step was Panavision’s gearing up to make enough cameras. By the end, we went through almost a dozen of them and found that a lot of things hadn’t been worked out yet. Our movie became a big testing ground for the technology.

Offline geckoph

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #76 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 05:49 PM »
Regarding the poor picture quality...are we talking about "Superman Returns"? or the first ones?

Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #77 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 05:58 PM »
"Superman Returns" - the transfer is grainy. Given the digital source of the film though, that's unlikely so it seems like it may have been added in post.

Btw, Warner confirmed that as far as they know, there's only 1 HD master for the DVD so the version we have here is the same one that's being used for Region 1 and Region 2 NTSC (South America and Japan).
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 06:03 PM by firewired »
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Offline geckoph

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #78 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 06:00 PM »
Hmmm...nakakatakot naman yan...kung ganun, eh, recommended buy pa ba ang "Superman Returns" DVD?

Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #79 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 06:09 PM »
I've been reviewing the "Superman Returns" disc that came with the "Ultimate Superman Collection", and I have to agree with the naysayers... the artifacts are disturbing.

My setup is a 42" DLP and while the image is cleaner on HDMI, the shimmer is still visible in dark scenes. On component, I see the "fine grain" that seems to be annoying a lot of people.

Quoting the review on DVD Talk for the R1 version:

"Presented in its original 2.35:1 aspect ratio and anamorphically enhanced for widescreen displays, Superman Returns looks very good with a few reservations. The film was reportedly shot entirely on high-definition video, so the limitations of certain scenes are likely due to the source material, not the transfer. Certain outdoor scenes look remarkably crisp, vibrant and colorful, while darker sequences display mild amounts of grain and seem slightly muddy. Overall, the positives certainly outweigh the negatives, while Warner's excellent track record earns them a slight handicap."

Exactly my sentiments.

MOD NOTE: Only realized now that BoredFilmmaker already quoted DVD Talk previously.
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2006 at 06:32 PM by firewired »
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Offline Mr. Hankey

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #80 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 09:43 PM »
I've been reviewing the "Superman Returns" disc that came with the "Ultimate Superman Collection", and I have to agree with the naysayers... the artifacts are disturbing.

What's actually strange (or annoying, depending on your point of view) is that the Superman II Donner Cut, which was on a tight restoration budget and was filmed 30 years ago, actually even looks cleaner when you watch it.

Oh, and for the record: I tested the R1 Superman Returns on a plasma screen (much larger than my LCD) earlier, and the grain is also noticeable.  :-[  The "gold foil o-sleeve packaging" apparently means that the embossed slipcase has some gold trim on it.  ;D
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2006 at 01:51 AM by Mr. Hankey »
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Offline el-el

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #81 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:25 PM »
With the good track record of Warner with regard to its R3 releases, I doubt if the local Warner releases are just re-encoded from R1 (or from any other region).  The quality of local Warner releases are generally consistent with its R1 counterparts, although there may be some differences in content.  The video quality of the Superman Returns DVD may be explained by the earlier post of Sir boredfilmmaker.

As to the budget releases (such as those of Magnavision and C-Interactive), these are encoded in DVD5 discs kaya talagang magsa-suffer ang picture quality.  And these releases are known to be locally pressed/encoded.



I've got a couple of WHV released DVDs that have grainy/pixelating videos (all region 3! and all are DVD9).... I also got a couple that are clear and not grainy (DVD9 din).... So, I could never agree that WHV has their R3 consistent with its R1 counterparts....  :o

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #82 on: Nov 15, 2006 at 10:39 PM »
I've got a couple of WHV released DVDs that have grainy/pixelating videos (all region 3! and all are DVD9).... I also got a couple that are clear and not grainy (DVD9 din).... So, I could never agree that WHV has their R3 consistent with its R1 counterparts....  :o

Are these same titles?  I mean R1 and R3 with differing PQ...
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Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #83 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 12:15 AM »
I just finished "Superman Returns" from start to finish. IMHO, there's something very wrong with this release. Pop in Disc 2 and watch the trailers and deleted scenes. They actually look better than the main feature.

I'm going to report this to Warner tomorrow.

I've got a couple of WHV released DVDs that have grainy/pixelating videos (all region 3! and all are DVD9).... I also got a couple that are clear and not grainy (DVD9 din).... So, I could never agree that WHV has their R3 consistent with its R1 counterparts...

You have to ask yourself what would motivate a company like Warner to spend production money on creating a superior master for Region 1 and an inferior version for Region 3. It doesn't add up. Seriously.

Now if you're complaining about missing features then that's a valid observation. Even the studios themselves will admit it. Disney routinely takes out the 2nd disc from many of their new R3 releases --  but the movie itself is still mastered from the same transfer used in all the other regions.
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2006 at 12:34 AM by firewired »
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Offline duncanfranchise

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #84 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 01:07 AM »
I just finished "Superman Returns" from start to finish. IMHO, there's something very wrong with this release. Pop in Disc 2 and watch the trailers and deleted scenes. They actually look better than the main feature.

I'm going to report this to Warner tomorrow.

I did notice the dirt/grains/pixelations in the main feature on both my CRT and LCD screens.  This is weird.  What can Warner possibly do, firewired?   ???

Offline frootloops

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #85 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 03:09 AM »
Hmmm...just got my copy yesterday and it seems that I already lost my excitement.  :(
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2006 at 08:55 AM by frootloops »

Offline firewired

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #86 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 07:23 AM »
I think at this point, we're all better off watching our copies and posting our constructive observations relative to our equipment. Please post your setups as well for reference.

Mine:
42" Samsung DLP L6
Pioneer DV-696
Viewed using HDMI and Component connections
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2006 at 07:53 AM by firewired »
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Offline 2ngaw

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #87 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 07:49 AM »
IMHO, the excessive grains are there from the start. When I watched this movie on IMAX, I noticed right away that the film was grainier than usual. I even said to myself, I thought the big IMAX film would make a movie clearer. Dont get me wrong, I loved watching it on IMAX but I think the movie itself was really grainy. And Singer used a 65mm film(?), bigger film, bigger grains. Just my thoughts.
I watched this DVD on a CRT RPTV and an LCD PC monitor. I didnt notice any pixelations but yes, it still is grainy.
I find your lack of clothes disturbing...

Offline DVD X 3

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #88 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 08:20 AM »
ask ko lang, what part in the movie or what chapter in the disc yung na announce na superman was seen in manila? di ko kasi makita nung na scan ko dvd ko.

Offline lord_vader

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Re: Superman Returns R3
« Reply #89 on: Nov 16, 2006 at 04:10 PM »
"Superman seen in Manila..."  Chapter 18... Around 60 minutes+ into the movie.