Topic: Yikes.....This Sucks! Your opinion and experience is needed

[dannielsimone]

Ok...so I made provisions when I built my HT to hide the speaker wire in the flooring and in the wall.  Unfortunately the provision on the side wall  for the 5.1 surround speaker is aproximately 6 feet behind the selected seating area( sofa) .  Onkly after about 8 weeks of researching surround speakers and almost choosing and paying for a dipole speaker I now realize that the choice of a dipole is not the correct one. 

Because I do not want to look at exposed wires stretching 6 feert across the wall to the side surround position am I correct in saying  I am now left no choice but to use a direct firing speaker aiming towards or near the sofa?

Am I right?

Discuss!

[av_phile1]

Can't you move the sofa to align closer to you surround outlets, then move the display a bit forward.  I read that even direct firing surrounds would yield better enveloping ambiance when postioned  closer to about a foot behind  your listening position and slightly higher than your ears.   It's the rears in  a 7.1 set-up that should be set further back, ideally at the back wall, while the surrounds are at the sides along your listening position.  But you can try, you may just have to increase the volume of the dipole surrounds.  Direct firing speakers located farther back sounds best with discretly recorded multichannel music though,but not as good with movies.  Having said that, they're not really hard and fast rules, just recommendations,  as you can always experiment with speaker placements that would sound best for you. 

[dannielsimone]

>Can't you move the sofa to align closer to you surround outlets, then move the display a bit forward.  I read that even direct firing surrounds would yield better enveloping ambiance when postioned  closer to about a foot behind  your listening position and slightly higher than your ears.   It's the rears in  a 7.1 set-up that should be set further back, ideally at the back wall, while the surrounds are at the sides along your listening position.  But you can try, you may just have to increase the volume of the dipole surrounds.  Direct firing speakers located farther back sounds best with discretly recorded multichannel music though,but not as good with movies.  Having said that, they're not really hard and fast rules, just recommendations,  as you can always experiment with speaker placements that would sound best for you. <

Nice to hear from you ...and again Happy Holidays.


Your idea of moving sofa back and moving display forward is very clever but not practical for about a dozen or so reasons. Just can not do it. What  I will need is a relatively small direct firing (surround) speaker that  I can mount on a side wall using a adjustable/swivel bracket.   Thus  can angle it and  point at what works best soundwise.  Of course keeping it in the paradigm monitor series would be nice for matching timbre.( What am I am really annoyed with ( other than myself) is the fact that I was gonna pull the trigger on the paradigm monitor 7 and dipole).  Paradigms direct firing speakers in the monitor series are pretty big and very deep and would work great as surround floor standers but  can not be mounted as I would like.  It being so big will look pretty obtrussive and an eye sore to boot.


Other  options

Considered the idea of using the paradigm Atom or Titan ( from preformance series) as a surround...and it would look good as well but those speakers can not handle the *80-100 watts I might use. matching timbre may also be an issue here. 
(Then again I could always play with the volunme control on the rear surrounds?)  But that might just be a pain in the ass).

Or perhaps I should just look for a smaller and more powerful surround speaker such as an acoustic energy mini ..... to go with the mionitor 7.....


Or do I start over  with these new requirements looking for a new brand?





 

 

[atomicat10]

I'm not an expert on this but have some experience on it.

Six feet distance of your fronts and center  to the sweet spot (sofa) can be easily handled by your receiver but I doubt you'll be able to achieve what you are expecting for if you maintain your rear surrounds at the same distance.

Rear surround data, from what I have observed behaves way differently from the fronts and center.  Rear surround sounds are way too transient and leveled down (expectedly as not to flood down the fronts and center) to be appreciated well on a non-acoustically treated room and/or when using speakers (dipole, bipole or direct firing) not powered by separate power amps for the rear channels.

I also relied on those speaker placement diagrams shared by THX, DD and DTS but it just didn't work on my room because of the aforementioned reasons.

I guess you are stuck with either moving "out" the sofa or moving "in" the speaker and the wires with it.

There are almost invisible speaker wires out there which is sonically the same with those small gauged ones.

[dannielsimone]

atomicat10..Thanx for your insight here.....my display is a 60 inch Sony rear projection.  Sweet spot is on the sofa 2.2 meters away.  No problem here....5 1.2 feet behind the sofa is the provision  for a surround speaker and when the speaker is positioned properly it maybe only 5 feet from sofa.  When angling the surrounds properly towards the sofa.....perhaps I may be able to get a good result?

[alvinthx2]

Can you consider Bipole speakers instead?

[dannielsimone]

Can you consider Bipole speakers instead?

Alvinthx2....I THINK Bipoles and dipoles work in the same manner in the respect that the sounds are to be emitted from the side of the listeners position adjacent to or just behuind his ears.  There are no direct sounds aimed at liteners head but sound is projected to the front and rear of listener creating that difuse ambient atmosphere.   The use of a bipole in my situation  with the speakers located 5 feet behind the listeners position may in fact then act as a direct firing speaker.....projecting sound directly towards listener.  The sound may be still good but not what is actually recommended.

I may stand to be corrected?

I may just demo both speaker types.

[av_phile1]

Bipoles and Dipoles are supposed to have their NULL side face the listener.  So yes, a dipole or bipole that is too far out on the sides behind the listener can easily have its forward firing side face the listener directly and thus reduce the diffused effect from such speakers. 

[dannielsimone]

and the bipole/dipole is then firing  towards the listening position much like a direct firing speaker would but the 'other" side of speaker would then also serve as in my case there is till another 3 meters of open area.  This affect could be interesting?

[alvinthx2]

Dipoles are surround speakers where one side usually the front firing is out of phase or  intentionally reversed its polarity in relation with the other side while Bipoles have both sides in phase or having the right polarity orientation. Some speakers have switches to turn Dipoles to Bipoles and vice versa.

Using Bipole speakers will in turn increase the polar pattern of your rear speakers . They will not be limited to a dispersion pattern of around 120 degrees for direct radiating speakers but rather a dispersion pattern of more than 180 degrees. This will give you a more enveloping rear speaker system.

Rear speakers are not meant to be heard directly, surround speakers should give you a sense being in the environment of the movie. They should be at least a foot to 3 feet above your ear at your listening position.

[dannielsimone]

thanx alvin.....I hear you loud and clear.  Unfortunately I can not place my surrounds to the side of listening position...theya are about 5 feet behind on side wall.  I am using  a direct firing speaker aimed not directly at listeners position but towards the midle ground between speaker and listening position.  actually installed in not more than 30 minutes ago.

Will let you know how it goes.