Topic: Sony 1080p X-series LCD "cloud" issue

[Mouldingo]

Lost in the clouds

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/archives/troubleshooter/010196.html




The picture was taken this way to illustrate what the clouds looks like during a dark scene.


From exploding laptop batteries to heavy-handed digital rights management systems and delays over the launch of the PS3, all is not completely peachy in the world of the Sony Corporation.

And far be it from Troubleshooter to add to the Japanese giant's woes but we'd like to put another apparent problem on its growing list.

The issue concerns the company's Bravia X Series flat panel LCD TVs. Since they were launched late last year, the Bravias have attracted a lot of praise, including an editor's choice award from CNet. But they are also creating some disgruntled buyers.

The problem, the ticked-off telly fans say, is that milky patches or "clouds" can be seen in the parts of the picture that are meant to be black. These patches are particularly evident in the corners of the screen and usually obvious only when the screen is viewed in a darkened room.

And it's very irritating - just ask Andrew Hart, who bought his 117-centimetre Bravia in September last year for more than $5000 and noticed the cloudy patches almost immediately.
"We're talking a top-of-the-line TV here," he says. "The patches are clearly visible if you are viewing in a darkened room, which, let's face it, is what people tend to buy a big TV for."

Hart called Sony. It sent an engineer who said the cloudy patches were not a fault. He called Sony again. This time it advised him to leave the TV on continuously for 40 hours to fix the problem. He did - and it didn't. Sony sent another engineer who said perhaps there was a problem and took it away. The TV was returned - with the same problem.

After Hart called Sony a fourth time, the TV was taken back to the workshop and returned about two weeks later with no improvement.

Getting a bit grumpy by this time, Hart involved Troubleshooter. This time Sony sent two senior technicians, who changed the settings on the TV and then asked Hart to test it over a weekend. He did and it still wasn't right. Sony has finally promised a replacement set but Hart is not holding his breath.

Now, if it was just one person with a problem, Sony's insistence there is no fault might sound a little more convincing. But we have already heard from another reader who, after detecting the same fault and having Sony deny there was an issue, returned the TV to his retailer and had it replaced by another brand.

Meanwhile, a thread on the Australian DVT Forum (www.dtvforum.info) with nearly 300 posts shows many frustrated Bravia X owners reporting the same problem. The US equivalent has more than 6000 posts.

We approached Sony for a response. After about a week, we received a reply that was substantially a "cut and paste" from a press release on the company's
US site. Sony claimed it had received only a "handful of queries" from Australian customers and they were being individually handled.

The statement also said Bravia X Series TVs used a bright backlight that "under certain dark viewing conditions may cause the screens on some of the televisions to exhibit slightly uneven uniformity [sic] ... this condition is not usually visible under typical viewing conditions ... and generally should not affect a viewer's experience".

In the US, Sony has also released a firmware update but users there have reported the "fix" removes the cloudy patches by darkening the screen excessively at the expense of much of the other detail.

[alvinthx2]

One a side note, comparing prices in the Philippines and the US

Local X series Bravia KLV40x200a P249,900.00 or $5206.00

US counterpart model KDL40xbr2                       $2799.00
                                            amt overprice    $2407.00

US street price            $1899 plus $159 shipping=
                                                                    $2058.00 or 98,784.00 pesos
 Ganito kamahal dito sa atin

Therefore sa US Bumili ka nang dalawang unit, BUY 2 TAKE 5 (sa prices natin dito)

[dB10]

The picture was taken this way to illustrate what the clouds looks like during a dark scene.

where/which site did you get this pic?

[Mouldingo]

The picture was taken this way to illustrate what the clouds looks like during a dark scene.

where/which site did you get this pic?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779
Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread

248 pages looong...good luck

Same problem with Samsung LNS5296D 52" 1080p LCD HDTV. Lifted from Amazon.com


Reviewer: Daryl Gates (Boise, Idaho) -
"This television looks great. However there is a technological limitation to LCD televisions of this size, and that's "clouding"... I've had to go through three of these sets because of this, on black screens (especially at night) there are white clouds over the screen which pretty much ruin any dark horror movie with the lights off. The Sony XBR series which is made at the same plant has a similar problem. Sharps have something called "banding" which is the same thing only with a shutter look to it. Just be prepared for some AWFUL looking blacks when you get this TV, but besides that it's a gorgeous picture. I hope Samsung fixes this soon or else it's back to the Pioneer Plamsa for me."

Reviewer: Michael Andreev - See all my reviews
     
"I purchased this set back in December. The day I got it I noticed clouds that become very apparent when watching dark scenes in movies. It was very patchy and distracting. These clouds are the result of too much light leaking through the screen on certain parts of it and they really stick out when you turn the lights off and watch dark movies like "Batman Begins."

More technically, this clouding-effect is known as "mura."

Some websites suggest that massaging the screen with a cloth will help clear up the problem. I tried that and the problem got worse. This is a solution not found on Samsung's website or in their manual. They have not acknowledged this problem and they do not have any solution for it.

I called Samsung about the mura. They sent a tech out and the tech said it was a problem with the screen. I had the set exchanged. I got it last week and it also has a problem with clouds, and it was worse than the last set.

I made the decision yesterday to take the set back and I got it exchanged with a Pioneer plasma display and, so far, I am VERY happy with it.

I am not the only one who experienced this problem. If you check out the forums on [...] you will discover personal accounts of people who also own this set who are experiencing mura. These people also post pictures of this problem so you can see it for yourself. In my view, this is an unacceptable defect for a TV of this price.

This TV could have been a good one. It produces an outstanding high-definition picture that made me very happy, it has lots of useful inputs, and it is aesthetically pleasing. It's too bad that this defect with the screen ruined the entire purchase. It amazes me that Samsung is still ignoring the problem.

On a sidenote, Sony has a line of Bravia TVs that use the same panels that Samsung put in their 96D line and customers of those sets have also reported problems with mura. Please be advised that this is a widespread problem, yet Sony & Samsung are not acknowledging it.

Hopefully, if you buy this set, you will have better luck than I did. To be honest though, it's not worth the risk. If you get this set, and you notice these clouds, you will have to go through the headache of either returning it or trying to get a replacement set that does not have this problem. Either get another set or wait for LED LCD which is coming in five months.

LCD TV is great for smaller screens, but it has not yet reached the level of quality for big screens that Plasma is enjoying. If you want a big-screen flat-panel that is 42" or more, then go plasma."

[nels76]

A problem inherent to the technology used?

[barrister]

Hindi naman siguro. 

Sa X models - not all X models are affected. 

Sa W models - I haven't heard of cloud issues on a W yet.

[Mouldingo]

More common yung clouding issue to large direct-view panels  as opposed to the rear-projection panels. Yung screen is more expensive to produce since requires more crystals than on a rear-projection LCD. They may have poor quality control during manufacture kaya random lumalabas yung sira... Kung bumili ka ng defective (knock-knock), will Sony Phil. agree to replace or to refund or give the answer "Sir, ganon talaga yung picture, kasi hi-end". Buti sa US even 30 days puwede pa refund.

[Moks007]

One a side note, comparing prices in the Philippines and the US

Local X series Bravia KLV40x200a P249,900.00 or $5206.00

US counterpart model KDL40xbr2                       $2799.00
                                            amt overprice    $2407.00

US street price            $1899 plus $159 shipping=
                                                                    $2058.00 or 98,784.00 pesos
 Ganito kamahal dito sa atin

Therefore sa US Bumili ka nang dalawang unit, BUY 2 TAKE 5 (sa prices natin dito)

Ya dont know why prices are so high here, considering when they lower local prices to levels like sa USA,
im sure it will sell..

[dB10]

and to think that sometimes bad after sales service still happen with these kind of prices leaves a lot to say about our kind of consumer protection laws and implementation.

[dB10]

i forgot to add, sony and samsung may not be the only company with this kind of problem, i had the exact same problem with another brand, it showed up after only 2 weeks of use and deteriorated to the point it was washing the scenes already in less than a month, and i thought it was just a freak unit!

[Mouldingo]

http://www.sony.com.au/category.jsp?id=30607


Notice to owners of Sony BRAVIA X-series televisions


"The Sony BRAVIA line of flat-panel LCD televisions reflects our commitment to the highest picture quality standards. The BRAVIA X-series televisions have received exceptionally high ratings for picture performance from various sources.

To achieve this high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony utilises a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even in the darkest image sources.

However, under certain dark viewing conditions, the setting may cause the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit slightly uneven uniformity, especially for blank screens with no video source. This condition is not usually visible under typical viewing conditions, such as watching movies or television programming, and generally should not affect your viewing experience.

Should you find that this condition affects your viewing enjoyment; there are a few settings that you can make to minimize this condition:

Setup Menu --> Light Sensor: ON
Setup Menu --> Power Saving: Low or High
Picture Menu --> Reduce the Backlight Level (Factory Setting: 10)
A combination of the above changes may be applied as necessary.
However, if the problem still persists, please contact the Sony Australia Customer Service"

[carl2k]

sir baka un lcd na x series is bukod tangi lang sa kanya nangyari ang ganun problem

marami nga nagsasabi na napakahusay ng performance ng x seies even in local broadcast
para daw cla naka dvd resolution

chaka naman cya

[paolorenzo]

Got this from the post of Nemesis91 (Theater Works)...

[striderhiryu1]

I have a the Bravia 46V2500,  Feb 2007 manufacturing date and didn't notice the clouding issue.  I was aware of these before I bought.  Connected to  Toshiba XA-1 and PS3 via HDMI and  later on will connect the 360 as well since I heard it will also accept 1080p via VGA. Very nice set for the price (Jpy 240,000 or Php96,000).  Next upgrade will be a 1080P projector to replace my AE-700.

[arnielc]

  later on will connect the 360 as well since I heard it will also accept 1080p via VGA.

Bro, let us know pag na try mo na 1080p is possible through VGA. I am planning on getting this TV too but I heard that 108op thru VGA only possible on games but not on movies. If gagana siya sa movies di AYOS!

[pchin]

Very nice set for the price (Jpy 240,000 or Php96,000). 

Wow....that was indeed a very good price!!